Moderators: LyricalRico, nate33, montestewart
trast66 wrote:nate33 wrote:When you are last in the league, you don't trade for win-now players. That's just stupid. Sheppard has shown no signs of making any panic moves like this.
I don't know, if that Bertans deal was not a panic move then we can put it in the stupid category.
WallToWall wrote:payitforward wrote:prime1time wrote:What gives anyone the impression that they will trade Beal instead of doubling down on trying to win with him? If you follow the logic of the franchise, it’s much much more likely that we do a blockbuster esque trade lacking our firsts and pick swaps and our young players in an attempt to get back a star. You can argue if it’s the best move, but I can’t imagine that we would just cut tail and run now. Brad has repeatedly stated he wants to stay here and win. Until he says he wants to leave, the Wizards need to be focused on putting together the best possible team around him.
I'm not sure I totally understand, prime -- mostly b/c of the word "lacking" which you use.
Do you mean we keep our "our firsts and pick swaps and our young players" -- but we still "get back a star?" If so -- please make that happen!
If instead you mean we sacrifice (some of? most of?) our picks & young players to get back a star -- it's not really a question of "if it's the best move." It's an impossible move.
Why is it hard to understand this, I wonder? We are paying 3 guys $85m this year. Next year, we owe those same 3 players $94. Let's suppose the "star" you want to add is KAT. Supposing that we mortgage our future & somehow manage to trade for him. In that case, next year we will owe 4 players (KAT plus the previous 3) @$122m.
Do I really have to flesh it out any further for it to be clear that this is just plain impossible?
Perhaps I dont understand. In order to get KAT, we will have to trade and "equivalent" amount of salary. So, hypothetically speaking (isn't all this hypothetical?), we trade Westbrook as the outgoing salary. We add picks and players that the Wolves value...say, TBjr + Bonga + however many picks. No?
https://tradenba.com/trades/diLncD7FM
We still have 2 very good players in Beal and KAT. Then we see who rises from among Bryant, Avidja, and Hach.
nate33 wrote:trast66 wrote:nate33 wrote:When you are last in the league, you don't trade for win-now players. That's just stupid. Sheppard has shown no signs of making any panic moves like this.
I don't know, if that Bertans deal was not a panic move then we can put it in the stupid category.
Bertans did not involve trading any picks or young players.
nate33 wrote:There aren't enough future picks in the world to package with Westbrook to get KAT.
WallToWall wrote:nate33 wrote:There aren't enough future picks in the world to package with Westbrook to get KAT.
A few more empty stat games from Westbrook while scoring 20+ pts may be enough to convince some other team to take him in trade.
trast66 wrote:nate33 wrote:When you are last in the league, you don't trade for win-now players. That's just stupid. Sheppard has shown no signs of making any panic moves like this.
I don't know, if that Bertans deal was not a panic move then we can put it in the stupid category.
The Consiglieri wrote:trast66 wrote:nate33 wrote:When you are last in the league, you don't trade for win-now players. That's just stupid. Sheppard has shown no signs of making any panic moves like this.
I don't know, if that Bertans deal was not a panic move then we can put it in the stupid category.
At the time I kept hearing 15-20 mill per, perhaps even higher. We got him for 16 per which was right about the middle of expectations. I didn’t like 5 years but what I was most afraid of was 4-80 or 4-100 which probably would’ve happened if not for covid shrinking the amt people were willing to pay.
FAH1223 wrote:
payitforward wrote:prime1time wrote:What gives anyone the impression that they will trade Beal instead of doubling down on trying to win with him? If you follow the logic of the franchise, it’s much much more likely that we do a blockbuster esque trade lacking our firsts and pick swaps and our young players in an attempt to get back a star. You can argue if it’s the best move, but I can’t imagine that we would just cut tail and run now. Brad has repeatedly stated he wants to stay here and win. Until he says he wants to leave, the Wizards need to be focused on putting together the best possible team around him.
I'm not sure I totally understand, prime -- mostly b/c of the word "lacking" which you use.
Do you mean we keep our "our firsts and pick swaps and our young players" -- but we still "get back a star?" If so -- please make that happen!
If instead you mean we sacrifice (some of? most of?) our picks & young players to get back a star -- it's not really a question of "if it's the best move." It's an impossible move.
Why is it hard to understand this, I wonder? We are paying 3 guys $85m this year. Next year, we owe those same 3 players $94. Let's suppose the "star" you want to add is KAT. Supposing that we mortgage our future & somehow manage to trade for him. In that case, next year we will owe 4 players (KAT plus the previous 3) @$122m.
Do I really have to flesh it out any further for it to be clear that this is just plain impossible?
nate33 wrote:Allright. I've come up with the perfect Beal trade scenario. It makes our trading partner a title favorite immediately, and it puts us into position to be the premier team over the second half of the decade. It's ridiculous and stupid, and probably against CBA rules for collusion or something, but we will ignore that for now.
TRADE 1:
Washington trades: Bradley Beal, Mo Wagner, Davis Bertans
Golden State trades: Klay Thompson, James Wiseman, Kent Bazemore, MIN 2021 1st, GSW 2021 1st*
Why for Golden State: They add Beal and Bertans while losing nothing from their current lineup. They get to keep Wiggins who is playing well for them. And they upgrade at center from Wiseman to Wagner. That's a potential title contender this year (but wait, it gets better). Also, Beal agrees to opt in on his option year.
Why for Washington: We tank and end up with two top 5 picks plus the GSW late pick. That GSW pick is 21-30 protected and probably won't convey this year, in which case it will convey in 2022.
TRADE 2:
A year from now, sometime in the middle of the 2021-22 season after Klay Thompson has recovered and he is starting to play well again:
Washington trades: Klay Thompson + small $6Mish filler salary
Golden state trades: Andrew Wiggins + Bertans + GSW 2026 pick
Why for Golden State: Upgrade from Wiggins to Klay and really put themselves in contention for the 2021-22 season with Curry, Beal, Klay, Draymond, Lee, Pascal and Looney (and Oubre if they keep him).
Why for Washington: We don't want to be stuck with an aging Klay late in his contract and we get the pick. It helps us tank for one more season where we land another lotto pick while developing Avdija, Wiseman, Hachimura, Brown, Bryant and our two lotto pick rookies. The trade also works if GSW keeps Bertans and it's just Klay for Wiggins and a small filler salary instead. It'll depend on how much luxtax GSW wishes to pay.
2022-23 SEASON:
The Wizards are improving with their two 2021 lotto picks, their 2022 lotto pick, the 2022 late GSW pick, Avidja, Hachimura, Bryant, Wiseman and Wiggins. Westbrook is over the hill and a pure dead weight. Wiggins is playing fairly well, but is overpaid. Both large contracts expire in Summer 2023. Meanwhile, GSW is on another title run, but Curry, Klay and Draymond have lost a step and injuries are mounting up. Maybe the win and maybe they don't, but it doesn't look promising going forward.
SUMMER 2023.
Beal is an unrestricted free agent who realizes that Golden State is past their window. The Wizards have cap room with Westbrook and Wiggins off the books. The Wizards sign the 30-year-old Beal and bring him back home. He joins a team with Avdija, Hachimura, Wiggins, two 2021 lotto picks going into their third year, a 2022 lotto pick going into his second year, a late 2022 pick. Maybe the Wizards also have their 2023 pick if they weren't that good in 2022-23, or maybe it conveyed to Houston if they were good.
Shoe wrote:prime1time wrote:What gives anyone the impression that they will trade Beal instead of doubling down on trying to win with him? If you follow the logic of the franchise, it’s much much more likely that we do a blockbuster esque trade lacking our firsts and pick swaps and our young players in an attempt to get back a star. You can argue if it’s the best move, but I can’t imagine that we would just cut tail and run now. Brad has repeatedly stated he wants to stay here and win. Until he says he wants to leave, the Wizards need to be focused on putting together the best possible team around him.
Our 2021 first rounder is more likely to be traded than Beal IMO. I bet they're looking for their own Jrue Holiday to encourage Beal to re-sign.
nate33 wrote:When you are last in the league, you don't trade for win-now players. That's just stupid. Sheppard has shown no signs of making any panic moves like this.
doclinkin wrote:nate33 wrote:When you are last in the league, you don't trade for win-now players. That's just stupid. Sheppard has shown no signs of making any panic moves like this.
And yet. Ted Leonsis verymuch has. If you assume he had to okay Ernie's biggest moves.
Consider how Ted has talked with Beal about front office positions and had to sweet talk him to re-sign, and has him in the room to help make draft picks and consults with him on personnel moves, and talks about building a culture with him as the centerpiece etc. You don't think it is at all possible Ted would direct Tommy to find a way to land a star next to Beal? That's precisely what he tried to do with Westbrook, and okay it was a swing and a miss, but you don't think he might direct Tommy to keep swinging?
I would not be surprised if instead of looking to swap Beal, Ted wanted to bury his mistake and package Westbrook's embarrassing contract with our top pick to try again for a star or collection of stars that might convince Beal we are trying to win now.
Is this not his pattern? Tommy Sheppard was retained as GM in part because he makes a happy sock puppet for Ted, who wants to create a basketball team in his roly poly happy happy double bottom double chin image. No Masai or Tim Connelly wanted the job, because Ted wanted a committee to have input and final decision making on basketball moves. Yes Tommy has the heart of a scout, but Ted has a moral mission that may supercede any interests in developing talent long term. When Ted is the one saying it might not take a long time to re-set, and that they never want to have a rebuilding year, then you kinda can hear the subtext here. Whatever it takes to make Beal think we are trying to win. Now. In his prime.
So if you are listening, you should be thinking up trades that include packaging a potential franchise player lottery pick with whatever parts don't fit, so that Ted can clean the catbox and keep Beal. He has no other plan. Beal is plan A1 to plan Zz.
doclinkin wrote:Shoe wrote:prime1time wrote:What gives anyone the impression that they will trade Beal instead of doubling down on trying to win with him? If you follow the logic of the franchise, it’s much much more likely that we do a blockbuster esque trade lacking our firsts and pick swaps and our young players in an attempt to get back a star. You can argue if it’s the best move, but I can’t imagine that we would just cut tail and run now. Brad has repeatedly stated he wants to stay here and win. Until he says he wants to leave, the Wizards need to be focused on putting together the best possible team around him.
Our 2021 first rounder is more likely to be traded than Beal IMO. I bet they're looking for their own Jrue Holiday to encourage Beal to re-sign.nate33 wrote:When you are last in the league, you don't trade for win-now players. That's just stupid. Sheppard has shown no signs of making any panic moves like this.
And yet. Ted Leonsis verymuch has. If you assume he had to okay Ernie's biggest moves.
Consider how Ted has talked with Beal about front office positions and had to sweet talk him to re-sign, and has him in the room to help make draft picks and consults with him on personnel moves, and talks about building a culture with him as the centerpiece etc. You don't think it is at all possible Ted would direct Tommy to find a way to land a star next to Beal? That's precisely what he tried to do with Westbrook, and okay it was a swing and a miss, but you don't think he might direct Tommy to keep swinging?
I would not be surprised if instead of looking to swap Beal, Ted wanted to bury his mistake and package Westbrook's embarrassing contract with our top pick to try again for a star or collection of stars that might convince Beal we are trying to win now.
Is this not his pattern? Tommy Sheppard was retained as GM in part because he makes a happy sock puppet for Ted, who wants to create a basketball team in his roly poly happy happy double bottom double chin image. No Masai or Tim Connelly wanted the job, because Ted wanted a committee to have input and final decision making on basketball moves. Yes Tommy has the heart of a scout, but Ted has a moral mission that may supercede any interests in developing talent long term. When Ted is the one saying it might not take a long time to re-set, and that they never want to have a rebuilding year, then you kinda can hear the subtext here. Whatever it takes to make Beal think we are trying to win. Now. In his prime.
So if you are listening, you should be thinking up trades that include packaging a potential franchise player lottery pick with whatever parts don't fit, so that Ted can clean the catbox and keep Beal. He has no other plan. Beal is plan A1 to plan Zz.
nate33 wrote:Allright. I've come up with the perfect Beal trade scenario. It makes our trading partner a title favorite immediately, and it puts us into position to be the premier team over the second half of the decade. It's ridiculous, and probably against CBA rules for collusion or something, but we will ignore that for now.
TRADE 1:
Washington trades: Bradley Beal, Mo Wagner, Davis Bertans
Golden State trades: Klay Thompson, James Wiseman, Kent Bazemore, MIN 2021 1st, GSW 2021 1st*
Why for Golden State: They add Beal and Bertans while losing nothing from their current lineup. They get to keep Wiggins who is playing well for them. And they upgrade at center from Wiseman to Wagner. That's a potential title contender this year (but wait, it gets better). Also, Beal agrees to opt in on his option year.
Why for Washington: We tank and end up with two top 5 picks plus the GSW late pick. That GSW pick is 21-30 protected and probably won't convey this year, in which case it will convey in 2022.
DCZards wrote:nate33 wrote:Allright. I've come up with the perfect Beal trade scenario. It makes our trading partner a title favorite immediately, and it puts us into position to be the premier team over the second half of the decade. It's ridiculous, and probably against CBA rules for collusion or something, but we will ignore that for now.
TRADE 1:
Washington trades: Bradley Beal, Mo Wagner, Davis Bertans
Golden State trades: Klay Thompson, James Wiseman, Kent Bazemore, MIN 2021 1st, GSW 2021 1st*
Why for Golden State: They add Beal and Bertans while losing nothing from their current lineup. They get to keep Wiggins who is playing well for them. And they upgrade at center from Wiseman to Wagner. That's a potential title contender this year (but wait, it gets better). Also, Beal agrees to opt in on his option year.
Why for Washington: We tank and end up with two top 5 picks plus the GSW late pick. That GSW pick is 21-30 protected and probably won't convey this year, in which case it will convey in 2022.
This trade is DOA in GS. You're asking them to trade an all-star (Klay), a promising young big (Wiseman) and two potential top 10 picks for Beal plus an overpaid one-dimensional player (Bertans), who has been an abysmal failure so far this season, and the third-string center (Wagner) on a 3-12 team.
Why would GS make that trade when it doesn't move the needle enough to put them ahead of LAC, LAL, Denver, Utah and probably a couple of other western conference teams? Why wouldn't they just wait and see how Wiseman develops, what Klay looks like when he returns, and who they might get in this year's draft?
The Consiglieri wrote:They wouldn't do that. Not in a million years.
If Beal goes to the Warriors, he gets us back a massive contract, Wiseman and a 1st. That's it in a best case scenario (assuming the first would be Manny's). I highly doubt we get another first thrown in, let alone multiple firsts.
