Tank World Order

[Pooh_Jeter]

That is in your opinion. In my opinion there are other players that could have played the Kawhi role and we still could have won.
In fact - top players demand a trade every year or two. And why does it have to be in 2-3 years? Do you believe that we are going to draft and develop a superstar in 2-3 years? Please give me 3 examples of a player that became a full blown superstar and lead his team to a chip in 3 years.

How many guys could have played the Kawhi role in your opinion? KD and Steph are the only others players who I could have made a case for.

I mentioned 2-3 years because if you're planning on winning with this core you need to get a superstar in that time frame otherwise you're just holding out hope for nothing with a mediocre team with limited assets.

Thats the point with either drafting a star or getting enough assets to trade for one, you're ensuring that the team lines up with the competitive window of that star as best as possible.

[bballsparkin]

Maybe we'll trade for Beal and give up all our draft picks. Wizards can be the ones to buy out Kyle and tank. Would that make you guys happy or still no because we're not really Finals contenders?

Anything more than 2 FRPs I would be upset for possibly one year of Beal.

[bluerap23]

That is in your opinion. In my opinion there are other players that could have played the Kawhi role and we still could have won.
In fact - top players demand a trade every year or two. And why does it have to be in 2-3 years? Do you believe that we are going to draft and develop a superstar in 2-3 years? Please give me 3 examples of a player that became a full blown superstar and lead his team to a chip in 3 years.

How many guys could have played the Kawhi role in your opinion? KD and Steph are the only others players who I could have made a case for.

I mentioned 2-3 years because if you're planning on winning with this core you need to get a superstar in that time frame otherwise you're just holding out hope for nothing with a mediocre team with limited assets.

Thats the point with either drafting a star or getting enough assets to trade for one, you're ensuring that the team lines up with the competitive window of that star as best as possible.

I would put the number of guys closer to 10. Maybe more. Title not guaranteed, but certainly a possibility that the same core + AD for example could have won.

In my opinion our emerging core has a window greater than 3 years.

If we were to get extremely lucky and wind up with the #1 overall pick this year - how long do you think it would take to become a title contender around that prospect?

[720]

These young refs need to chill the **** out.

[Skeezo]

I have actually never advocated a lone scenario, or simplified the search for talent to something as simple as losing games.

Neither has the TWO. Tanking for a high pick is only one aspect of asset accumulation. This is why you see people talking about trading Lowry, Norm and Boucher. Using the cap flexibility to take on contracts for extra assets. It's also why no one on the team should be deemed untouchable if a trade for a "core" piece comes up and makes sense down the road.

I may have missed it, but does "Team Short-Term" concur that the core is untouchable and that the Raptors aren't allowed to accumulate assets now or in the future? Vasquez got us Powell and OG. Bargnani got us Poeltl.

Can someone explain to me "Team Short-Term's" plans regarding Lowry and Powell?

The reason being is "Team, Tired of Losing Assets for Nothing" would like to know because he is pretty jealous of the asset hauls, and young talent teams like OKC, New Orleans, and Houston have obtained to rebuild with... You see, "Team Realist" understands that IF and WHEN a franchise talent becomes made available in trade you must have ASSETS that won't either gut your entire roster of talent to contend with, or drain you of an entire future of draft picks from which to round out a potentially highly-paid contending roster with cheap talent.

I argue that we are not even remotely close to the same team we were in the summer of 2018 prior to the DD/Kawhi trade regarding our team standing, and asset base from which we could make trades to upgrade talent and still compete. I also think our "window of opportunity" to compete for the championship was MUCH better in 2018, then it is now. Let's face facts, Lowry at best could compete for two more years after this one... Name one or two realistic trades we could do, that would allow us to compete with the likes of Brooklyn, LAL, LAC, Milwaukee, Philly, Boston, Denver, or Utah over the next two years... If you can't do it, again I ask... Why are we holding on to Lowry and Powell?

[mdenny]

"Teams that tanked less San Antonio" who drafted Tim Duncan in 90s and Mavs who drafted Dirk. But again you guys cut off 90s because they stayed in college longer. But let's ignore that McGrady was highschooler and Garnett as well. And using Mavs as example of team who tank less? Their current success is because of tanking for Luka and Cuban admitted to tanking before.

That post has many problems
Badly run franchises are bad for long time. Idea that their problem is tanking is hilarious. I'm pretty if they tried to treadmill they wouldn't find much success.

I'm not even sure he's saying we shouldn't tank. He's just providing a more realistic framework to understand the true value of the pick it will yield..

I'm halfway cheering losses. This seasons is a wash unlike any other we will probably ever see. Playing in Tampa. No fans. Multiple players sidelined and game cancellations.

I am SO STOKED we won when we did. It wouldn't have been even 10% of the joy if our first chip came last summer. It's not even close to being the same as normal. Plus this draft is so highly rated. All signs point to tank imo. This post was just a good way of putting a high draft pick in perspective which is sometimes lost in drooling over prospects. We've all seen it a million times.

It's like they said in moneyball. "You act like a you ca predict the future but the simple truth is you don't know" (in re of prospects)

[KL78192020]

I'll clarify my position one more time, and leave it at that.

I'm not against trading Lowry if the team decides to do that. My only argument is that incremental success is possible, and any teams current ceiling isn't static. I'd personally rather not get into the rut of star chasing like the Knicks have been doing for years, but that model failed because they chased terrible stars, and had terrible management. Proper management trumps all decisions. Having a good draft pick, and terrible talent evaluators means nothing. You'll just make back draft picks. Likewise, if you're a "treadmill" team and need to make a jump forward (or back) it can be (and has been) done with proper management.

Pointing to the entirety of the draft and saying this pool of players is ours, what you got, is pointless. Good teams draft good players in the draft while maintaining a competitive roster. It's harder, no doubt about it, but is it harder to draft late round gems with proper management or draft HoF talent in the lottery with incompetent management. The Spurs draft picks in the late first / second round rivals a lot of crap teams stuck in the lottery.

Last years team was one of the best teams in any sport I have had the pleasure to watch. I knew we weren't going to win a championship but it was immensely enjoyable. I'm curious to know if the pro-tankers were watching raptor ball when we were a tanking team?

No one said anything about tanking last year. Last years team was fine to watch, are you enjoying watching the current team as constructed?

[Mehar]

Last year's team had the potential to go at least the Semis. If not for Pascal laying an egg against Boston, this team would have faced Miami in the Semis. This year's team will get swept out of the first round if they ever made it by luck. They are destined to finished 9th or 10th. No point in barely missing the playoffs or making it to get swept. It would best serve the organization for the years ahead to draft in the top 3 of this year's solid draft.

[Steelo Green]

Yes - shockingly, most of us who are proponents for tanking have seen most of, if not all of the history of the Raptors.

One of the worst discussion topics is to assume that the other has not seen as much as you because they have a different opinion than you.

[Steelo Green]

One can blame no Norm and OG, but this is the worst defensive team in basketball and you lost with Kyle, Siakam and Fred playing. Holmes was in foul trouble as well so, this was a pretty valid loss.

The Raptors are officially in No Mans Land.

[Bruin]

Noice

[KL78192020]

Back to 5th worst in the league with more than 25% of the season done. lol

[Steelo Green]

tWo is gladly accepting new members of all creeds, colours, sexes, and any marginalized group at all.

It may be tough to see some losses in the short term, but together it makes it easier.

[720]

Vucevic gonna go off for 40.

[Pooh_Jeter]

They said it couldn't be done...

[JShuttlesworth]

Vucevic gonna go off for 40.

God I hope so

[C-R-E-A-M-]

Raps were 7-12 when Masai traded Rudy

[Bruin]

Vuc is gonna bully Baynes and Boucher. You know damn well he wants to kill the raptors after what gasol did to him in that playoff series

[720]

These young refs need to chill the **** out.

Clairvoyant.

[DelAbbot]

Hope tonight's loss against the hapless kings is the straw that broke the camel's back.