Official Celtics 2020-21 Regular Season Thread

[Fencer reregistered]

This quote, however, doesn't sound like it's only referring to transition.

Tatum amplified Brown’s sentiments.

“It just seems like everybody’s not on the same page,” he said. “If there’s three guys one possession, two guys not. If there’s four guys, one is not. Obviously people know what we’re capable on the defensive end, but we’ve just got to figure it out. We’ve got more than enough guys that are, I guess, elite defenders. That’s kind of what we hang our hat on being on the Celtics, is competing and defending, and honestly, we’re just not doing that right now. And we’ve got to figure it out.”

https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-celtics/2021/01/28/jaylen-brown-shooting-stats-ppg-improvement

[Fencer reregistered]

It is well known that Brad's rotations are to some extent experimental. There are some possible flaws with this approach. In particular:

1. It can interfere with other uses of game time, such as outscoring the opponent.

2. Experimentation and player development aren't exactly the same thing. Indeed, they can interfere with each other, reinforcing the previous point.

I think we'd all be more comfortable, at least in theory, if Brad would settle on an 11-13 player if-healthy rotation. (That doesn't imply playing more than 9-10 per game; there usually are a couple of guys who are hurt, and somebody can always use a night off.) Doing that would involve leaving 5-7 players out. Who would they be?

Tatum, Brown, Walker, Smart, and Theis obviously should play.
Pritchard and Rob Williams are almost as obvious.
Langford and Nesmith have both shown good signs of developmental potential.
That's 9 who pretty clearly should be in the if-healthy rotation.

Waters and Fall seem out for now, except that if the team is going to play zone defense anyway then suddenly Fall looks like a somewhat better option.

That still leaves 6 guys, of whom only 2-4 should be in the if-healthy rotation. The problem is that everybody has obvious uses.

Semi has actually played OK.
Grant proved his rookie year he has the potential to play usefully.
The veteran acquisitions haven't had a lot of time to acclimate yet. PGs particularly may need a bit of time.
Edwards is suddenly back in the mix. But even if he does well he'll have some bad streaks, so if he's in the rotation he needs some leash.
Javonte brings energy and ... uh, he brings energy.

[bisme37]

Read on Twitter

[ConstableGeneva]

Reminds me of when we acquired David Lee even if he's not as bad as David Lee. I think team would be better off just divvying up all the bigs minutes between Theis and Timelord. Make Thompson a super situational big.

Read on Twitter

[Bleeding Green]

Thompson looked fine yesterday I guess and he was still the worst big on the floor. I just don't get the upside with him. He's fine when switched out to the perimeter, better than Theis there, but he doesn't defend the paint that well, can't put the ball in the hoop, has brick hands. Good rebounder, but individual defensive rebounding is the most overrated **** in the sport; does anyone know of a source to check what the TEAM rebound-rate is when specific players are on the court?

Even when he plays well, he scores 8 pts on 8 shots. Give Rob Williams 8 shots and you get like 14 pts. What was the difference in this game?

[bisme37]

Thompson looked fine yesterday I guess and he was still the worst big on the floor. I just don't get the upside with him. He's fine when switched out to the perimeter, better than Theis there, but he doesn't defend the paint that well, can't put the ball in the hoop, has brick hands. Good rebounder, but individual defensive rebounding is the most overrated **** in the sport; does anyone know of a source to check what the TEAM rebound-rate is when specific players are on the court?

Even when he plays well, he scores 8 pts on 8 shots. Give Rob Williams 8 shots and you get like 14 pts. What was the difference in this game?

I'm hoping he'll be a bit better over time. I was wondering why he seems to have cinderblocks in his sneakers and then remembered he's coming off a hamstring injury and missed training camp, preseason, and the first several games. He's spoken on it himself and says he's still not in the condition or rhythm he normally is.

[Bleeding Green]

Thompson looked fine yesterday I guess and he was still the worst big on the floor. I just don't get the upside with him. He's fine when switched out to the perimeter, better than Theis there, but he doesn't defend the paint that well, can't put the ball in the hoop, has brick hands. Good rebounder, but individual defensive rebounding is the most overrated **** in the sport; does anyone know of a source to check what the TEAM rebound-rate is when specific players are on the court?

Even when he plays well, he scores 8 pts on 8 shots. Give Rob Williams 8 shots and you get like 14 pts. What was the difference in this game?

I'm hoping he'll be a bit better over time. I was wondering why he seems to have cinderblocks in his sneakers and then remembered he's coming off a hamstring injury and missed training camp, preseason, and the first several games. He's spoken on it himself and says he's still not in the condition or rhythm he normally is.

That's just who he is. He can't put the ball in the hoop and hasn't been able to his entire career outside of a couple years where he got to play with LeBron. He's just a bad basketball player who plays the least valuable position on the floor. Somehow that's worth 10 million. I wonder what his career would have looked like had he not been drafted 3rd overall and player with LeBron.

[ConstableGeneva]

Plot Twist! (Could still be a small sample esp since we haven't been healthy)

Our starters are 21st in offensive rating but 4th in defensive rating.
Our bench are 8th (not a typo) in offensive rating but only 16th in defensive rating. PP and Rob factor into that offense.

Past few years, our benches have been great defensively.

(Maybe the NBA stat site is broken lol. They have the OKC starters with the top offensive rating.)

[bisme37]

Thompson looked fine yesterday I guess and he was still the worst big on the floor. I just don't get the upside with him. He's fine when switched out to the perimeter, better than Theis there, but he doesn't defend the paint that well, can't put the ball in the hoop, has brick hands. Good rebounder, but individual defensive rebounding is the most overrated **** in the sport; does anyone know of a source to check what the TEAM rebound-rate is when specific players are on the court?

Even when he plays well, he scores 8 pts on 8 shots. Give Rob Williams 8 shots and you get like 14 pts. What was the difference in this game?

I'm hoping he'll be a bit better over time. I was wondering why he seems to have cinderblocks in his sneakers and then remembered he's coming off a hamstring injury and missed training camp, preseason, and the first several games. He's spoken on it himself and says he's still not in the condition or rhythm he normally is.

That's just who he is. He can't put the ball in the hoop and hasn't been able to his entire career outside of a couple years where he got to play with LeBron. He's just a bad basketball player who plays the least valuable position on the floor. Somehow that's worth 10 million. I wonder what his career would have looked like had he not been drafted 3rd overall and player with LeBron.

I'm with you part of the way. I still think he can and will play better than he is now, even if that still doesn't make him awesome.

[bisme37]

Hey reminder to vote for All Stars. JB is listed as a guard and JT is front court. Can vote on NBA.com, the NBA app, and twitter.

[bucknersrevenge]

Brad is still experimenting with guys and trying to find groups that he likes which I get but players work on rhythm. They like to know their roles and know when they're gonna play and who they're gonna play with. Players develop chemistry over time given minutes with set patterns. We have no set patterns now so no players feel comfortable nor do they seem to know who they can rely on besides Tatum and Brown. And maybe Smart.

[Parliament10]

[bucknersrevenge]

Brad is still experimenting with guys and trying to find groups that he likes which I get but players work on rhythm. They like to know their roles and know when they're gonna play and who they're gonna play with. Players develop chemistry over time given minutes with set patterns. We have no set patterns now so no players feel comfortable nor do they seem to know who they can rely on besides Tatum and Brown. And maybe Smart.

Further underscoring this is Washburn's latest article about this from yesterday

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/01/28/sports/celtics-showed-best-worst-themselves-loss-against-spurs/

Since everyone may not have full access, here are some important tidbits.

It’s reaching a point where Celtics coach Brad Stevens is going to have to make some decisions on his rotations, because he might have been directly responsibility for Wedensday’s 110-106 loss to the San Antonio Spurs with some of the funky lineups he threw out there in key stretches.

"funky" is polite. I call it "dogsh*t". I'm sorry. There should NEVER be a moment in a game where Stevens should feel comfortable playing any 2 of Grant, Semi, or Javonte on the floor at the same time.

It didn’t mean the Celtics couldn’t come back and win, but the decision cost them the lead and forced them to rally. Stevens used 13 players in the game, 10 in the second half. Generally, NBA coaches like to pare their rotations to eight or nine players.

Seriously pick your best talents and just play them. If in a particular game they don't play well replace them on a game by game basis. Otherwise, keep going back to them. Quit making it hard on yourself and your players Brad.

“There’s not a ton of separation there.”

Stevens is saying that with no bench players really standing out, he’s going to play all of them until somebody does. That could be painful to watch at times.

You can blame Brad here or Danny or BOTH if you're feeling froggy for this comment. If there is no separation, you've made sh*tty personnel decisions or don't know to develop talent...or both.

[ConstableGeneva]

It's 2021, not 1997. It's also not the playoffs. Almost every team plays 10-12 players every night. Unless you want to run your players into the ground by the time postseason comes around, you have to rely on whatever "depth" you have (*waves to Danny*). Kemba is coming off a knee procedure and they're being cautious with that knee. Tatum and Timelord just had COVID and no court time for weeks. Regular season wins won't matter when your best players are burned out by April. Let's hire Thibs as our coach.

There's also this...

People complain Stevens doesn't play the young guys. The moment he gives Nesmith, Edwards, and co. some floor time, this rotation issue comes up again. Fans also complain we need vets on the team so we play the vets. This rotation issue comes up again. Guy can't win unless we win every freaking game.

These concerns about timeout-calling, challenges, and rotations don't bug me as much. You can watch every team and complain about every single coach about this. Unless what happens is exactly what you want to happen, you can find fault in your coach.

I'm more concerned about late-game offense and overall defense. That's on the coach. We won't blow out every team so we need to be better in close games. We haven't been since we acquired Kemba (or gave the keys to the offense to Tatum/Brown).

2016-17 (IT/Horford): 32-17
2017-18 (Hospital Cs): 29-17
2018-19 (Ky/Hayward): 23-19
2019-20 (Kemba/Jays): 23-19
2020-21 (Kemba/Jays): 5-5

We were sub-.500 in the recent playoffs in clutch games. The Heat who went on to Finals were 11-3.

[bucknersrevenge]

It's 2021, not 1997. It's also not the playoffs. Almost every team plays 10-12 players every night. Unless you want to run your players into the ground by the time postseason comes around, you have to rely on whatever "depth" you have (*waves to Danny*). Kemba is coming off a knee procedure and they're being cautious with that knee. Tatum and Timelord just had COVID and no court time for weeks. Regular season wins won't matter when your best players are burned out by April. Let's hire Thibs as our coach.

There's also this...

People complain Stevens doesn't play the young guys. The moment he gives Nesmith, Edwards, and co. some floor time, this rotation issue comes up again. Fans also complain we need vets on the team so we play the vets. This rotation issue comes up again. Guy can't win unless we win every freaking game.

These concerns about timeout-calling, challenges, and rotations don't bug me as much. You can watch every team and complain about every single coach about this. Unless what happens is exactly what you want to happen, you can find fault in your coach.

I'm more concerned about late-game offense and overall defense. That's on the coach. We won't blow out every team so we need to be better in close games. We haven't been since we acquired Kemba (or gave the keys to the offense to Tatum/Brown).

2016-17 (IT/Horford): 32-17
2017-18 (Hospital Cs): 29-17
2018-19 (Ky/Hayward): 23-19
2019-20 (Kemba/Jays): 23-19
2020-21 (Kemba/Jays): 5-5

We were sub-.500 in the recent playoffs in clutch games. The Heat who went on to Finals were 11-3.

Well you're preaching to the choir here if you're gonna talk about late-game offense and defense. But I think those issues are also a manifestation of Brad not finding combinations he's comfortable with and Tatum and Brown being on the floor with guys who are not reliable. They find themselves in tight situations after leads falls apart due to the lack of timeout calling and rotation issues that rear their head earlier, it seems to me. I can maybe get behind playing 10 games in a game. Even 11, especially if foul trouble comes into play. But if you're running through 13 guys in one half, that's indicative of someone who is maybe just throwing **** at the wall to see what sticks. Bottomline, I really would like to see Danny make a move or 2 to simplify Brad's options.

[ConstableGeneva]

[Parliament10]

Read on Twitter

[Parliament10]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

[Parliament10]

Read on Twitter

[ConstableGeneva]

Read on Twitter

I still miss the high-pace, high-passing, high-3pt-volume ham-and-egger offense.