The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV

[Rastas]

It would be the motivated aggressive Simmons, so not fun for sixers fans.

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[Simmons25]

The biggest mistake was Brett and the Sixers F.O handing him the Point Guard keys without demanding progress from his shooting first. They were too busy wanting to showcase him as the next Lebron and Magic to bring in more hype and for the Sixers after the process. With early success and playing how he wants to play he had no initiative to change his game.

If he lacks the internal motivation to be great, nothing external will motivate him either.

I do agree however that the organization should've held out on making him a cornerstone of the team, because now it's unable to pivot in response to his lack of development.

There is only one thing that motivates Simmons... and it is absolutely no coincidence that for the last 4 years that the only time he starts becoming aggressive in games is when All-Star voting is about to start. Every year is like groundhog day. He starts off being passive... then the all-star game comes and he tries... and then he goes back to being passive and a liability in the playoffs. People should have waken up to it by now and accept that nothing will ever change.

[phillynative]

The biggest mistake was Brett and the Sixers F.O handing him the Point Guard keys without demanding progress from his shooting first. They were too busy wanting to showcase him as the next Lebron and Magic to bring in more hype and for the Sixers after the process. With early success and playing how he wants to play he had no initiative to change his game.

If he lacks the internal motivation to be great, nothing external will motivate him either.

I do agree however that the organization should've held out on making him a cornerstone of the team, because now it's unable to pivot in response to his lack of development.

There is only one thing that motivates Simmons... and it is absolutely no coincidence that for the last 4 years that the only time he starts becoming aggressive in games is when All-Star voting is about to start. Every year is like groundhog day. He starts off being passive... then the all-star game comes and he tries... and then he goes back to being passive and a liability in the playoffs. People should have waken up to it by now and accept that nothing will ever change.

I know he cares about Allstar but heres another possibility i recently thought of.

This have nothing to do with Ben shooting and more of his inconsistent aggression scoring. I honestly dont believe Ben is a natural scorer but hes physically gifted enough to be double digits every nite and getting to the line more frequently.

I recently thought of maybe he starts off slow because every season since a rookie he has had a different roster to learn playing out of position as a PG so instead of focusing on scoring he tries to learn everyones game and where they want the ball. Then when he eventually starts to figure out the plays where everyone needs to be he can then focus on being more agressive scoring. So this happens to occur around allstar voting ...

[76ciology]

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[phillynative]

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Andre Drummond

[76ciology]

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[fangfang]

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Consistency is key, my golf game would agree

[stormi]

Like clockwork.

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[76ciology]

Like clockwork.

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If Rubio or marcus smart replaces Ben on our starting unit with Embiid, they’d also be able to achieve the same results or close to the same results.

[stormi]

Like clockwork.

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If Rubio or marcus smart replaces Ben on our starting unit with Embiid, they’d also be able to achieve the same results or close to the same results.

hook, line & sinker

[stormi]

If we get to the point where we're marginalizing Ben Simmons passing ability then this isn't the simulation that I want self awareness on. He has very obvious flaws. His ability to find and create looks for others at that height not being one of them & it continuously yields tangible result. Just get him & Embiid a quality (Kyle Lowry) guard that can control the halfcourt tempo and you've got the makings of a true contender.

[Ferry Avenue]

Here's a thought experiment for fans of the Sixers, regarding Ben Simmons:

Imagine the Sixers trade Simmons and you're watching them play a game against his new team.

What is the level of threat of losing to that team that you experience by virtue of Simmons's presence on it?

I mean, he's not gonna put up 40 if that's what you mean. He'll certainly make life difficult on whoever our new scorer is and hurt is transition.

That doesn't seem very threatening to me. In other words, I'm not losing any sleep about to play Simmons's new team by virtue of his presence on it.

Compare that to any player in the league regarded as a closer (LeBron, Harden, Durant, Butler, Leonard, George, Giannis, etc. -- even Jayson Tatum) and it's a completely different feeling. I'm concerned about those players' ability to beat me by themselves in the clutch. Simmons, not even close.

[youngcrev]

Here's a thought experiment for fans of the Sixers, regarding Ben Simmons:

Imagine the Sixers trade Simmons and you're watching them play a game against his new team.

What is the level of threat of losing to that team that you experience by virtue of Simmons's presence on it?

I mean, he's not gonna put up 40 if that's what you mean. He'll certainly make life difficult on whoever our new scorer is and hurt is transition.

That doesn't seem very threatening to me. In other words, I'm not losing any sleep about to play Simmons's new team by virtue of his presence on it.

Compare that to any player in the league regarded as a closer (LeBron, Harden, Durant, Butler, Leonard, George, Giannis, etc. -- even Jayson Tatum) and it's a completely different feeling. I'm concerned about those players' ability to beat me by themselves in the clutch. Simmons, not even close.

Giannis is regarded as a closer? News to me. Seems like that's Middleton's job to me, which has similar question marks to our team's set up. Embiid's a far better late game option than Giannis is in terms of scoring in the half court and making his free throws.

But anyway, those guys you listed are simply better than Ben, of course they're a bigger threat in general. Top-15 (and with some of the names, top-5) players are bigger threats than top-30 players.

If your point is that you worry more about scorers, sure. There's more potential for those types to have a hot shooting game and destroy you. In general I think people worry more about Donovan Mitchell than Rudy Gobert against the Jazz, even though Gobert is the best/most impactful player on their team. I'm not sure worry-level is a perfect barometer of impact.

Regardless, is someone trading us an elite player for Ben? I guess that's what I'm missing here. If Morey can get us a guy that's clearly better in a deal, he should probably do it. Until then, do we really need to harp so heavily on what Ben can't do that we ignore the things that he does do so well? I get the frustration with him, but he's clearly an impactful player in general. If you replace him with a guy that does the things he doesn't, but does none of things that he does do well (like say, Zach LaVine) you're left with a clearly worse overall product on the floor.

[Stanford]

Like clockwork.

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If Rubio or marcus smart replaces Ben on our starting unit with Embiid, they’d also be able to achieve the same results or close to the same results.

hook, line & sinker

The replies are hilarious too

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?s=20

Ben gets the offense in rhythm

[Snotbubbles]

If we get to the point where we're marginalizing Ben Simmons passing ability then this isn't the simulation that I want self awareness on. He has very obvious flaws. His ability to find and create looks for others at that height not being one of them & it continuously yields tangible result. Just get him & Embiid a quality (Kyle Lowry) guard that can control the halfcourt tempo and you've got the makings of a true contender.

Kyle Lowry makes too much sense for this team. Question is what will it cost?

[youngcrev]

Like clockwork.

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If Rubio or marcus smart replaces Ben on our starting unit with Embiid, they’d also be able to achieve the same results or close to the same results.

I have a hard time knowing when you're serious or being sarcastic

[Stanford]

Like clockwork.

Read on Twitter

If Rubio or marcus smart replaces Ben on our starting unit with Embiid, they’d also be able to achieve the same results or close to the same results.

I have a hard time knowing when you're serious or being sarcastic

You're buying this Ben Simmons is an offensive genius thing too?

[youngcrev]

If Rubio or marcus smart replaces Ben on our starting unit with Embiid, they’d also be able to achieve the same results or close to the same results.

I have a hard time knowing when you're serious or being sarcastic

You're buying this Ben Simmons is an offensive genius thing too?

No, that's silly.

I buy that he has a far greater offensive impact than guys like Smart and Rubio, and does a good job of finding his shooters and creating looks for them.

There's way too much hyperbole on both sides of the fence.

Bodner had the perfect answer to whether Ben's overrated or underrated. He said "both"

[Ferry Avenue]

I mean, he's not gonna put up 40 if that's what you mean. He'll certainly make life difficult on whoever our new scorer is and hurt is transition.

That doesn't seem very threatening to me. In other words, I'm not losing any sleep about to play Simmons's new team by virtue of his presence on it.

Compare that to any player in the league regarded as a closer (LeBron, Harden, Durant, Butler, Leonard, George, Giannis, etc. -- even Jayson Tatum) and it's a completely different feeling. I'm concerned about those players' ability to beat me by themselves in the clutch. Simmons, not even close.

Giannis is regarded as a closer? News to me. Seems like that's Middleton's job to me, which has similar question marks to our team's set up. Embiid's a far better late game option than Giannis is in terms of scoring in the half court and making his free throws.

But anyway, those guys you listed are simply better than Ben, of course they're a bigger threat in general. Top-15 (and with some of the names, top-5) players are bigger threats than top-30 players.

If your point is that you worry more about scorers, sure. There's more potential for those types to have a hot shooting game and destroy you. In general I think people worry more about Donovan Mitchell than Rudy Gobert against the Jazz, even though Gobert is the best/most impactful player on their team. I'm not sure worry-level is a perfect barometer of impact.

Regardless, is someone trading us an elite player for Ben? I guess that's what I'm missing here. If Morey can get us a guy that's clearly better in a deal, he should probably do it. Until then, do we really need to harp so heavily on what Ben can't do that we ignore the things that he does do so well? I get the frustration with him, but he's clearly an impactful player in general. If you replace him with a guy that does the things he doesn't, but does none of things that he does do well (like say, Zach LaVine) you're left with a clearly worse overall product on the floor.

And I guess that's the issue when you boil it down, that this team as it's currently configured needs for Simmons to be a top player or it won't be competitive with the best teams in the league in a playoff series. Certainly when it drafted him #1 overall it envisioned that. He hasn't developed in that manner however.

Trust the process was the deal back then. Well we trusted the process, but it didn't result in enough firepower. The missing piece is precisely Simmons's lack of development.

[Zumramania]

No, our biggest fail was drafting Fultz. 45 out of 73 first draft picks made at least one all star game appearance, so drafting Fultz was a mistake which a competent franchise should not do. He had a bad workout with us and that should have been enough of a red flag for something as serious and franchise-defining as the first draft pick. Simmons' lack of development also hurts us but I don't really know what can be done about it. I guess the coaching staff is already doing what they can. We should either be concerned with finding other pieces or even trade him eventually if the right opportunity comes along.