Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX

[nate33]

This trade is DOA in GS. You're asking them to trade an all-star (Klay), a promising young big (Wiseman) and two potential top 10 picks for Beal plus an overpaid one-dimensional player (Bertans), who has been an abysmal failure so far this season, and the third-string center (Wagner) on a 3-12 team.

Why would GS make that trade when it doesn't move the needle enough to put them ahead of LAC, LAL, Denver, Utah and probably a couple of other western conference teams? Why wouldn't they just wait and see how Wiseman develops, what Klay looks like when he returns, and who they might get in this year's draft?

We only get Klay for one year, the year that he is rehabbing. We then trade him back to Golden State once he is healthy. That's the whole point!

[nate33]

They wouldn't do that. Not in a million years.

If Beal goes to the Warriors, he gets us back a massive contract, Wiseman and a 1st. That's it in a best case scenario (assuming the first would be Manny's). I highly doubt we get another first thrown in, let alone multiple firsts.

We are getting back a massive contract (Klay's, which we later exchange for Wiggins). We also loan them Bertans to be a poor man's Klay for while Klay is rehabbing.

[nate33]

Bradley Beal won't be on the trading block 'in the near future

Washington Wizards star Bradley Beal won't be on the trade market anytime soon, according to ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski.

“He is not going to be on the trade market here in the near future and he’s not expressed, really at all yet, that he’s ready to move on,” Wojnarowski said on NBA Countdown. “He has loved that city, that organization, and he’s fought through a lot there. And he’s fighting through a lot right now.”

Washington is now 3-12 after losing to the Atlanta Hawks, 116-100, last night. Beal recently expressed his frustration with the team's play. But according to Wojnarowski, he remains comitted to the Wizards amid the rough stretch.

"I think this is a conversation for the Wizards and Beal that perhaps is had in the offseason," Woj added.

Wojnarowski said that he recently spoke with Beal's agent, Mark Bartelstein, who stressed that the shooting guard is solely focused on helping the Wizards turn things around.

Beal is currently averaging a league-high and career-best 34.7 points per game this season.

I think Beal is genuine in his desire to remain in DC. He honestly likes it here. Nevertheless, the possibility always exists that he can change his mind. I would not, under any circumstances, allow him to get past the Trade Deadline next year without extending his contract and/or opting in on his player option.

[doclinkin]

Beal is an incredibly loyal guy and if everything was equal, he'd love to finish his career in DC. However, Ted has turned this season into such as **** show that Beal may not have any choice but to ask out during the offseason --- pushing Ted into a rebuild whether he likes it or not.

I'm not at all worried about it. This team has made quick fix trades when there was at least a minimal talent base where one could reasonably expect several years of playoff appearances. We no longer have that talent base. What does a package of Westbrook plus a lotto pick get us? Kemba Walker? Sheppard will tell Ted that that's still not a good enough team to make the playoffs.

It's rebuild time. Either rebuild around Beal if Beal wants to stay, or trade Beal as part of the rebuild. They're not trading the lotto pick.

I fully get the 'NANANA I"M NOT LISTENING defense. I am saying we have seen Ted's track record with this team. And we have heard how invested he is in Beal being part of the future of this team. Whether or not Beal has interest in remaining vs moving on may be irrelevant to Ted if he feels like he wants to do absolutely everything to keep Boy Scout Beal. Forever.

Imagine he has given Tommy a directive: "Do whatever you have to do to keep Beal on the team". Then extrapolate from there. What moves do you have left given what we have?

Consider if the Wiz fall to 4 or 5 in the lotto. Or maybe even #3. What packages might other teams offer for that high lotto pick in a strong year? And if Westbrook puts together a string of empty triple doubles like he does. I can see a Westbrook for Kevin Love or Westbrook for Al Horford type of swap with the Wiz pitching in a pick or the like.

[DCZards]

Your right about one thing, Golden State is not dealing Klay. I think the deal only works if we take Wiggins so GS can afford to keep Beal.

But Wiseman, the Memphis pick & their own 2021 pick should be the bare minimum in any deal with GS. I don't think that's a controversial by any stretch.

The suggestion that Golden State will be patient seems presumptuous. Golden State isn't Washington or Orlando or some 2nd tier team. They still have the core of one of the greatest teams of all time on their roster. Waiting 4 years for Wiseman to grow into a stud while wasting the remaining years of Curry, Klay & Dray sounds laughable when you say it outloud. Golden State is focused on winning a championship next year, not seeing if Wiseman can improve to 15 & 8.

I assume the Warriors will do everything thing improve their championship hopes - not for 2024 but for next year!

I agree a trade of Wiseman and picks for Beal is not controversial. If Beal HAS to be traded, that's the trade I'd prefer over some of the others I've seen floated here.

But, unlike you, I don't think GS is in any hurry to trade Wiseman. (Not that it can't happen.) You say Wiseman might grow into a stud in 4 years. I think it's just as likely that he's a stud by the 2022-23 season...when Klay will be fully back from his injury and GS now also has a couple of lottery picks with a full year of experience under their belt. Add Wiggins and Paschall to the mix and that will be a very competitive GS team.

Keeping Wiseman and those multiple picks puts the Warriors in a position to be relevant 5-6 years from now when Curry, Klay & Draymond are past their primes...and Lebron is 50 years old.

That may not be what GS is thinking...but that's what I'd do.

[WallToWall]

It is good that Beal has not (yet) expressed a desire to move on. He wants to stay. He is playing at a high level right now, and that can't be argued. When a team has such a good player, it makes sense to build around him. Players like him don't come around too often. Would we rather reset (trade him away), and get on the treadmill again, rolling the dice and waiting another 6 years for the possibility of another good player to help us be a contender? If we trade Beal, we are basically saying that we have no chance at being a title contender for the next 6 years, while we grow new players and retool. The better route is to try hard to get that second star player. With 2 very good players, it is easy to make the playoffs. Once in the playoffs, anything can happen. This is when Shep can earn his keep. Let us see how good of a GM we have. Let us see if he can make something out of this situation. The window for Beal is 5 years. His contract is up sooner, and that will be the determining factor. Give the GM that long to make us a contender.

[gambitx777]

What about this?
NO : Davis Bertans
WAS: Ball and the LA 2021 first which has a weird protection on it and won't convey till 2022 anyway and the wizards 2021 second that the pells own.

NO needs shooting bad from the wing and something to stretch the floor that isn't named and aging JJ. This helps them because lonzo cap hold is replaced by Bertans contract and let's be honest they were not gonna have much money anyway with their cap situation.

The wizards need defence and lonza really helps that. It allows us to show ish to a point guard needing team like orlando and get something for him and we can take a look at lonzo and see if he's work keeping next to Brad. This also allows us to really get ruo and deni and brown playing time.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

[nate33]

I fully get the 'NANANA I"M NOT LISTENING defense. I am saying we have seen Ted's track record with this team. And we have heard how invested he is in Beal being part of the future of this team. Whether or not Beal has interest in remaining vs moving on may be irrelevant to Ted if he feels like he wants to do absolutely everything to keep Boy Scout Beal. Forever.

Imagine he has given Tommy a directive: "Do whatever you have to do to keep Beal on the team". Then extrapolate from there. What moves do you have left given what we have?

Consider if the Wiz fall to 4 or 5 in the lotto. Or maybe even #3. What packages might other teams offer for that high lotto pick in a strong year? And if Westbrook puts together a string of empty triple doubles like he does. I can see a Westbrook for Kevin Love or Westbrook for Al Horford type of swap with the Wiz pitching in a pick or the like.

I don't think Ted's #1 objective is to keep Beal at all costs. It's to keep fan interest at all costs. All Sheppard needs to do is point out that a high draft pick in a good draft is likely to yield the next Lamelo Ball, or Zion Williamson, or Trae Young, or Luka Doncic, and that guy is going to put more butts in seats than Beal.

And the other critical factor is this assumption that trading the pick for a veteran star is more likely to keep Beal here than merely drafting a high upside prospect. If you are Beal and you are deciding about who to play with for the next 5 years of your career, would you honestly prefer to play alongside Suggs in his second year, or somebody like Kemba Walker or Vucevic, or Pascal Siakam (because that's all we're getting if we are packaging Westbrook in a deal)?

[payitforward]

...To restate, I'm willing to give up any and everything in order to bring a second legit star to the Wizards. No one is untouchable....

Whatever it is you are willing to do (which I assume -- or hope -- does not include forwarding a $1m or so a year to Ted in order to help pay salaries ) doesn't address the issue of whether it would be possible to do it in the first place. "To restate,"

1. Westbrook is untradeable.
2. A roster is 15 players -- how do you see the resulting roster? No answer means you have no idea. If you aren't willing to get even that far, your "willingness" doesn't really express anything (other than your frustration, of course -- which we all share!).
3. "A second legit star" is a phrase that doesn't say enough. Who are the top 3 guys you'd like to go after, & how would you do it? Or, at least, name one guy who would accomplish what you would accomplish & tell me how you're going to get him.

... I believe in Beal. ...I don't think he's done getting better. ...It's time to go all-in on Beal. ...with the way he scores, why can't he be a #1 option on a championship team?

"All in" means no Plan B. What's the cost to you, prime, if it doesn't work out? The cost is zero. Brad will turn 28 in June. How soon will we have that "championship team?"

...I get trading Beal if he wants to leave. But what's the argument for trading him if he wants to stay?

Here we agree -- there is none.

Unless, of course, someone makes you an offer you can't refuse.

[The Consiglieri]

They wouldn't do that. Not in a million years.

If Beal goes to the Warriors, he gets us back a massive contract, Wiseman and a 1st. That's it in a best case scenario (assuming the first would be Manny's). I highly doubt we get another first thrown in, let alone multiple firsts.

If the Minny pick doesn't convey or ends up as the 8th pick, you'd really be happy with that? Wiseman and a late lottery pick for Beal? If thats the case, he's not going to Golden State.

Not really, no, but it's still better than all the offer's I've heard other than MP JR+ something of value. I hate all the other ideas.

And we've got to think like Golden State too.

I imagine the thought process is that they can rebuild while contending if they do nothing because of the young assets they've acquired, or they can roll the dice on Beal for a slight extension of the window depending upon how much they give up. I think the degree they're willing to make a deal is entirely contingent upon how much it will cost. If we ask for more than Wiseman+Minny 1st+ Oubre/Wiggins contract, I think they decide to go w/what they got, I think if we make it Wiseman, Minny 1st, and the contract, I think there's a 50/50 chance they say yes, 40/60 etc. If we want to add another first, I imagine it's more like 20/80 to 10/90 they say yes. I think at that point their reasoning is:

We are almost certainly aren't winning the title this year w/Beal, and it's darn hard to do it even w/everyone back by the winter of '21-'22 and Beal, so why again our we sending out a top '20 and '21 1st plus a legit player again? Why not just play w/what we have since we aren't winning this year?

That's what I think happens if we try to get more than Wiseman/1st+plus contract, and I think it's a reason why we're probably no better than 50/50 of having that even agreed to.

[Dat2U]

Beal is an incredibly loyal guy and if everything was equal, he'd love to finish his career in DC. However, Ted has turned this season into such as **** show that Beal may not have any choice but to ask out during the offseason --- pushing Ted into a rebuild whether he likes it or not.

I'm not at all worried about it. This team has made quick fix trades when there was at least a minimal talent base where one could reasonably expect several years of playoff appearances. We no longer have that talent base. What does a package of Westbrook plus a lotto pick get us? Kemba Walker? Sheppard will tell Ted that that's still not a good enough team to make the playoffs.

It's rebuild time. Either rebuild around Beal if Beal wants to stay, or trade Beal as part of the rebuild. They're not trading the lotto pick.

I fully get the 'NANANA I"M NOT LISTENING defense. I am saying we have seen Ted's track record with this team. And we have heard how invested he is in Beal being part of the future of this team. Whether or not Beal has interest in remaining vs moving on may be irrelevant to Ted if he feels like he wants to do absolutely everything to keep Boy Scout Beal. Forever.

Imagine he has given Tommy a directive: "Do whatever you have to do to keep Beal on the team". Then extrapolate from there. What moves do you have left given what we have?

Consider if the Wiz fall to 4 or 5 in the lotto. Or maybe even #3. What packages might other teams offer for that high lotto pick in a strong year? And if Westbrook puts together a string of empty triple doubles like he does. I can see a Westbrook for Kevin Love or Westbrook for Al Horford type of swap with the Wiz pitching in a pick or the like.

Including a pick in the Westbrook deal went against everything Shepp has said in the past so maybe you right about the level of desperation to hold onto to Beal.

As far as targets like Love or Horford, I have a more realistic one. Jerami Grant. It was suggested by TGW on the trade board but I could definitely see Shepp making a play for the local kid on the rise using our pick. I think they'll keep Westbrook and try to manage his minutes. That's your new big three. Add you can add in whatever throwback C Shepp can sign for the mid level on the first day of free agency to backup Alex Len lol.

[Dat2U]

1. Westbrook is untradeable.

He could probably be moved for the carcass of Blake Griffin with little incentive added.

He could be moved tomorrow for much smaller contracts if the Wizards attached the unprotected 2021 pick and Avdija in the deal.

No one is untradeable. Its just whether the price to move him is tolerable or not.

[NatP4]

1. Westbrook is untradeable.

He could probably be moved for the carcass of Blake Griffin with little incentive added.

He could be moved tomorrow for much smaller contracts if the Wizards attached the unprotected 2021 pick and Avdija in the deal.

No one is untradeable. Its just whether the price to move him is tolerable or not.

Or bringing back other contracts with more remaining years. Westbrook is really only a bad contract for another year or so.

[DCZards]

I don't think Ted's #1 objective is to keep Beal at all costs. It's to keep fan interest at all costs. All Sheppard needs to do is point out that a high draft pick in a good draft is likely to yield the next Lamelo Ball, or Zion Williamson, or Trae Young, or Luka Doncic, and that guy is going to put more butts in seats than Beal.

And the other critical factor is this assumption that trading the pick for a veteran star is more likely to keep Beal here than merely drafting a high upside prospect. If you are Beal and you are deciding about who to play with for the next 5 years of your career, would you honestly prefer to play alongside Suggs in his second year, or somebody like Kemba Walker or Vucevic, or Pascal Siakam (because that's all we're getting if we are packaging Westbrook in a deal)?

If I'm Beal, I'm all over a trade for Vucevic or Siakim. That guarantees Beal that he'll be playing with an all-star level talent during the prime of his career...while drafting Suggs (if you're lucky enough to get him) does not.

That might not be the best approach for the future of the franchise but I believe Beal would consider it the best one from his standpoint.

[Ruzious]

So what would it take for GS and/or Washington to get Minnesota to take off the top 3 protection on Minnesota's pick - considering that right now - if it is a top 3 pick, GS gets Minny's 2022 pick with no protection?

[nate33]

So what would it take for GS and/or Washington to get Minnesota to take off the top 3 protection on Minnesota's pick - considering that right now - if it is a top 3 pick, GS gets Minny's 2022 pick with no protection?

A whole lot.

[wall_glizzy]

I don't think Ted's #1 objective is to keep Beal at all costs. It's to keep fan interest at all costs. All Sheppard needs to do is point out that a high draft pick in a good draft is likely to yield the next Lamelo Ball, or Zion Williamson, or Trae Young, or Luka Doncic, and that guy is going to put more butts in seats than Beal.

And the other critical factor is this assumption that trading the pick for a veteran star is more likely to keep Beal here than merely drafting a high upside prospect. If you are Beal and you are deciding about who to play with for the next 5 years of your career, would you honestly prefer to play alongside Suggs in his second year, or somebody like Kemba Walker or Vucevic, or Pascal Siakam (because that's all we're getting if we are packaging Westbrook in a deal)?

If I'm Beal, I'm all over a trade for Vucevic or Siakim. That guarantees Beal that he'll be playing with an all-star level talent during the prime of his career...while drafting Suggs (if you're lucky enough to get him) does not.

That might not be the best approach for the future of the franchise but I believe Beal would consider it the best one from his standpoint.

Yeah, I don't think it'll come to pass but from a pure Beal-appeasement standpoint trading for either of those guys definitely makes DC more appealing. That said, I'd rather not.

Hey, while I'm here - anyone taken a look at Myles Turner's play this year? I seem to recall some disagreement on his worth as a player.

[WallToWall]

1. Westbrook is untradeable.

He could probably be moved for the carcass of Blake Griffin with little incentive added.
He could be moved tomorrow for much smaller contracts if the Wizards attached the unprotected 2021 pick and Avdija in the deal.
No one is untradeable. Its just whether the price to move him is tolerable or not.

I'd rather have the carcass of Westbrook over the carcass of Griffin. I agree that nobody is untradeable...it comes down to price to pay. Everyone on every team is tradable.

[prime1time]

...To restate, I'm willing to give up any and everything in order to bring a second legit star to the Wizards. No one is untouchable....

Whatever it is you are willing to do (which I assume -- or hope -- does not include forwarding a $1m or so a year to Ted in order to help pay salaries ) doesn't address the issue of whether it would be possible to do it in the first place. "To restate,"

1. Westbrook is untradeable.
2. A roster is 15 players -- how do you see the resulting roster? No answer means you have no idea. If you aren't willing to get even that far, your "willingness" doesn't really express anything (other than your frustration, of course -- which we all share!).
3. "A second legit star" is a phrase that doesn't say enough. Who are the top 3 guys you'd like to go after, & how would you do it? Or, at least, name one guy who would accomplish what you would accomplish & tell me how you're going to get him.

... I believe in Beal. ...I don't think he's done getting better. ...It's time to go all-in on Beal. ...with the way he scores, why can't he be a #1 option on a championship team?

"All in" means no Plan B. What's the cost to you, prime, if it doesn't work out? The cost is zero. Brad will turn 28 in June. How soon will we have that "championship team?"

...I get trading Beal if he wants to leave. But what's the argument for trading him if he wants to stay?

Here we agree -- there is none.

Unless, of course, someone makes you an offer you can't refuse.

Sooner and more likely than if we trade Beal.

[queridiculo]

1. Westbrook is untradeable.

He could probably be moved for the carcass of Blake Griffin with little incentive added.
He could be moved tomorrow for much smaller contracts if the Wizards attached the unprotected 2021 pick and Avdija in the deal.
No one is untradeable. Its just whether the price to move him is tolerable or not.

I'd rather have the carcass of Westbrook over the carcass of Griffin. I agree that nobody is untradeable...it comes down to price to pay. Everyone on every team is tradable.

I don't know, there's a moonshot chance of Griffin *NOT* exercising his 2021 option to pick where to play out the final years of his career, and if he doesn't the Wizards get out of a supermax slot one full year sooner than with Westbrook.