Tank World Order

[Son Goku 25]

Yep, I knew this guy was for real.

Jalen is a man amongst boys i can already see him being a dog in the league. He's giving me draymond impact vibes.

[Steelo Green]

No one said anything about tanking last year. Last years team was fine to watch, are you enjoying watching the current team as constructed?

I am talking about rebuilding our team to that level next season.
As in - I don't want to repeat this season or worse for multiple years, thus i am anti-tank.

Most of us are behind a quick tank. We don’t want multiple seasons of this. A top 5 pick this year, max cap space this summer on top of the squad we already have...if that happens we won’t be this bad for a long time.

Being pro tank doesn’t automatically mean we want 5 years of tanking.

Imagine we get Mobley in the draft and get oladipo in FA.

Fred
Oladipo
OG
Siakam
Mobley

Quickest rebuild of all time. But some people want to win this year for some messed up reason and get kicked out in the first round, get a crappy pick, in a season without fans, not playing in Toronto etc. it makes no sense.

That’s the thing - if we get lucky and hit on a cornerstone player right away, this can be both quick and easy.

Siakam though I would keep a close eye on. I think his drop off is potentially real and bad.

[Son Goku 25]

I am talking about rebuilding our team to that level next season.
As in - I don't want to repeat this season or worse for multiple years, thus i am anti-tank.

Most of us are behind a quick tank. We don’t want multiple seasons of this. A top 5 pick this year, max cap space this summer on top of the squad we already have...if that happens we won’t be this bad for a long time.

Being pro tank doesn’t automatically mean we want 5 years of tanking.

Imagine we get Mobley in the draft and get oladipo in FA.

Fred
Oladipo
OG
Siakam
Mobley

Quickest rebuild of all time. But some people want to win this year for some messed up reason and get kicked out in the first round, get a crappy pick, in a season without fans, not playing in Toronto etc. it makes no sense.

That’s the thing - if we get lucky and hit on a cornerstone player right away, this can be both quick and easy.

Siakam though I would keep a close eye on. I think his drop off is potentially real and bad.

I'm a bit worried about Siakam also but I'd like to see what he does with less pressure hopefully if we land a guy like dipo and draft a nice player. He's definitely a option 3 at this point or a decent 2nd option with a stacked team and true superstar. It'll give us a couple of years and all of these guys will still in in their primes.

[Son Goku 25]

Jalen Johnson seems like a winning player, reminds me of Draymond but way more athletic.

[Marty_Budda]

Most of us are behind a quick tank. We don’t want multiple seasons of this. A top 5 pick this year, max cap space this summer on top of the squad we already have...if that happens we won’t be this bad for a long time.

Being pro tank doesn’t automatically mean we want 5 years of tanking.

Imagine we get Mobley in the draft and get oladipo in FA.

Fred
Oladipo
OG
Siakam
Mobley

Quickest rebuild of all time. But some people want to win this year for some messed up reason and get kicked out in the first round, get a crappy pick, in a season without fans, not playing in Toronto etc. it makes no sense.

That’s the thing - if we get lucky and hit on a cornerstone player right away, this can be both quick and easy.

Siakam though I would keep a close eye on. I think his drop off is potentially real and bad.

I'm a bit worried about Siakam also but I'd like to see what he does with less pressure hopefully if we land a guy like dipo and draft a nice player. He's definitely a option 3 at this point or a decent 2nd option with a stacked team and true superstar. It'll give us a couple of years and all of these guys will still in in their primes.

I would be patient with pascal. We’re not trying to win now so we have very little to lose. He’s 26 and has very little basketball miles on his body.

I’d want to see him have a full off-season and see how he comes back next year. If he’s still underperforming, I’d then look for a possible trade.

Some games he looks quick like last night and others he looks like he’s stuck in mud. That’s a sign of injury to me.

[Psubs]

I hope the Heat can beat the Kings (who are on the back to back tonight).

[Pooh_Jeter]

I'm good on Oladipo. The Raptors desperately need shot creation, but with his injury history and his play since coming back I'm good. He probably still get a max offer and I have very little interest in committing that much money to him especially when you have big contracts to Siakam and FVV on the books too. Kawhi was worth every risk, Oladipo is not even close to Kawhi's level.

This needs to be a 2 year tank especially with Emoni Bates potentially declaring for next year. It also gives you plenty of time/opportunity to find a Siakam and/or FVV deal that brings assets back.

Ideally you hit on whatever picks you make in the next two years and then you should be more than capable of jumping in on any star that comes available going forward.

[Steelo Green]

That’s the thing - if we get lucky and hit on a cornerstone player right away, this can be both quick and easy.

Siakam though I would keep a close eye on. I think his drop off is potentially real and bad.

I'm a bit worried about Siakam also but I'd like to see what he does with less pressure hopefully if we land a guy like dipo and draft a nice player. He's definitely a option 3 at this point or a decent 2nd option with a stacked team and true superstar. It'll give us a couple of years and all of these guys will still in in their primes.

I would be patient with pascal. We’re not trying to win now so we have very little to lose. He’s 26 and has very little basketball miles on his body.

I’d want to see him have a full off-season and see how he comes back next year. If he’s still underperforming, I’d then look for a possible trade.

Some games he looks quick like last night and others he looks like he’s stuck in mud. That’s a sign of injury to me.

We've been talking injury for a year now.

He also had 4 months off without doing a thing.

I think he's just regressed in tandem with him taking the foot off the gas pedal. Pad combinations.

Yesterday was against a very bad defensive group so I don't put much stock into it.

[MixxSRC]

Oladipo is nice but not when you pay him max

[Marty_Budda]

I'm a bit worried about Siakam also but I'd like to see what he does with less pressure hopefully if we land a guy like dipo and draft a nice player. He's definitely a option 3 at this point or a decent 2nd option with a stacked team and true superstar. It'll give us a couple of years and all of these guys will still in in their primes.

I would be patient with pascal. We’re not trying to win now so we have very little to lose. He’s 26 and has very little basketball miles on his body.

I’d want to see him have a full off-season and see how he comes back next year. If he’s still underperforming, I’d then look for a possible trade.

Some games he looks quick like last night and others he looks like he’s stuck in mud. That’s a sign of injury to me.

We've been talking injury for a year now.

He also had 4 months off without doing a thing.

I think he's just regressed in tandem with him taking the foot off the gas pedal. Pad combinations.

Yesterday was against a very bad defensive group so I don't put much stock into it.

Yeah last year the March to June pause was basically the off-season and he messed up big time not treating it as such. Showed bad character and drive not taking the time to stay game ready.

I’m willing to give him a second chance tho. I look at him more like he’s 23 in terms of basketball developmental years instead of 26. So he’s still got massive upside imo.

[ATLTimekeeper]

I don't think we really know yet if they're married to any of those guys. That's my point. We could trade all of them.

The truth is we could have an entirely new team. That's my point. The questions we should be asking are bigger in scope than simply what prospect do we go after.

Sure, I think it was more that it's likely they'd build around all three going forward rather than being able to find equivalent talent in a trade or engaging in a long-term rebuild where they dump their deals.

It's also possible they buy out Lowry and evaluate Norm as the full-time starting 2 in a year he's likely to opt out. If I had to guess what would happen, it's something closer to this. At the trade deadline it's clear the Raptors are either just hanging onto a playoff spot or too far out of it, Lowry asks for a buyout to choose his own spot to ring chase and they concede. Norm slots into the full-time SG role and then they see what happens in the final block of games. If he does quite well, maybe they offer him a 4 year deal and go into the next season with Fred, Norm, OG, Siakam, a new C, Boucher, Flynn, and some cheap-o bench defenders plus whatever they get in this year's draft.

[Tacoma]

Last years team was one of the best teams in any sport I have had the pleasure to watch. I knew we weren't going to win a championship but it was immensely enjoyable. I'm curious to know if the pro-tankers were watching raptor ball when we were a tanking team?

No one said anything about tanking last year. Last years team was fine to watch, are you enjoying watching the current team as constructed?

I am talking about rebuilding our team to that level next season.
As in - I don't want to repeat this season or worse for multiple years, thus i am anti-tank.

How do you propose to stop next season & beyond from becoming a repeat of this season? Siakam is soon 28 and has hit a wall. Lowry if not traded likely leaves as UFA to ring chase. Remaining guys are a support cast for a star we don't have. How do you propose to fill this talent gap? No trade is going to get you a bonafide star if all you have to offer is pickings from this bunch.

We have oodles of cap space once meant for Giannis, but the remaining free agent market has dwindled to Oladipo and DeRozan. Not good options. The draft thus remains the best path to build talent. Tanking is painful, but if you believe in Masai, then you want to give him the best chance of finding elite talent by drafting as high as possible. Short term pain hopefully for long gain.

[PhilBlackson]

Jalen Johnson seems like a winning player, reminds me of Draymond but way more athletic.

I can see some of that Draymond/Simmons like strong forward that rebounds, pushes the ball up court....offensively he actually reminds me of a taller RJ Barrett with better decision making/less ballhogging which imo would actually be a damn good player.

I think most of Barrett's struggles is his shot selection/calling his own number too much AND that he has the style of play of a forward but is actually a SG. Obviously with Johnson there would be no such problem. For myself I'll say again that I feel like I need to see more of Mobley because I think the comparison to AD is unwarranted (who plays far more like a huge SG offensively) and that he's far more a Bosh like potential (less polished and not as much dog in him) and for that reason personally I would take Johnson over him but maybe I'm missing something on Mobley.

I know some people are advocating for Mobley based on need for a big but should we be so lucky to end up in the top 7-8 I pray our team drafts BPA (period) and I believe the actual need this team has is a player who create his own shot both to execute in crunch time and to collapse a defense which makes it easier for the others (ie/ how Kawhi helped both Fred and Siakam be more effective) which imo is far more Green, Kuminga but I think even Johnson would be able to develop his shot enough while his strong drives will already help cause those defensive collapses and ofc Cade can already basically do it all (I'll say again, he'll be right there by Luka for who's got the next generation). I'd even favor Suggs being another Roy like player over Mobley who I just don't see that dominance from but good a la Bosh 2.0

[bluerap23]

That’s the thing - if we get lucky and hit on a cornerstone player right away, this can be both quick and easy.

Siakam though I would keep a close eye on. I think his drop off is potentially real and bad.

I'm a bit worried about Siakam also but I'd like to see what he does with less pressure hopefully if we land a guy like dipo and draft a nice player. He's definitely a option 3 at this point or a decent 2nd option with a stacked team and true superstar. It'll give us a couple of years and all of these guys will still in in their primes.

I would be patient with pascal. We’re not trying to win now so we have very little to lose. He’s 26 and has very little basketball miles on his body.

I’d want to see him have a full off-season and see how he comes back next year. If he’s still underperforming, I’d then look for a possible trade.

Some games he looks quick like last night and others he looks like he’s stuck in mud. That’s a sign of injury to me.

Yeah, I've already stated I am good with tanking this season. Who cares about a season in Tampa and I knew it was going to be bad going into the season with the loss of our 2 bigs.

But I am not interested in tanking next year.

I'm not giving up on Pascal. Not interested in selling low.

[Mehar]

I'm good on Oladipo. The Raptors desperately need shot creation, but with his injury history and his play since coming back I'm good. He probably still get a max offer and I have very little interest in committing that much money to him especially when you have big contracts to Siakam and FVV on the books too. Kawhi was worth every risk, Oladipo is not even close to Kawhi's level.

This needs to be a 2 year tank especially with Emoni Bates potentially declaring for next year. It also gives you plenty of time/opportunity to find a Siakam and/or FVV deal that brings assets back.

Ideally you hit on whatever picks you make in the next two years and then you should be more than capable of jumping in on any star that comes available going forward.

I agree with this. I hope ownership gets on board as well. I would be fine with a 2 year mini rebuild. I would entertain offers for everyone on this team. The key is that hopefully Masai and the ownership starts the process sooner or later. The top 5 of this year's draft looks solid. It would be a big setback for this organization to win meaningless games and draft 14 or 15 this year.

If this team had two more wins right now, they would be drafting possibly 15th overall. A wasted year. They need to start entertaining offers for Lowry and Powell right away to contenders. Package them with Boucher as well, since he has a cap friendly option for next year. The goal should be to finish in the bottom 5, and with some luck getting a shot at the top pick. Get some assets and draft picks back for Lowry/Powell and Boucher. This team will never attract a star free agent. Getting that guy in the draft is the way to go.

[Steelo Green]

I'm a bit worried about Siakam also but I'd like to see what he does with less pressure hopefully if we land a guy like dipo and draft a nice player. He's definitely a option 3 at this point or a decent 2nd option with a stacked team and true superstar. It'll give us a couple of years and all of these guys will still in in their primes.

I would be patient with pascal. We’re not trying to win now so we have very little to lose. He’s 26 and has very little basketball miles on his body.

I’d want to see him have a full off-season and see how he comes back next year. If he’s still underperforming, I’d then look for a possible trade.

Some games he looks quick like last night and others he looks like he’s stuck in mud. That’s a sign of injury to me.

Yeah, I've already stated I am good with tanking this season. Who cares about a season in Tampa and I knew it was going to be bad going into the season with the loss of our 2 bigs.

But I am not interested in tanking next year.

I'm not giving up on Pascal. Not interested in selling low.

I don't think you deal Pascal, because you have no option than to hope he increases his value, but personally he is going down a dangerous path of mediocrity.

16 games in and a TS of 52.5, net negative across many metrics (RAPTOR, net rating which is the worst it's been on O his entire career, and the worst defensively since his rookie year).

I think this could be the start of a fall, not a bad start to the season.

[Syd-TK3]

Lots of talk about Oldadipo and the heat but is it even a mutual interest?
I think the heat's main target is Beal and they gonna monitor that situation over anything else. So Dipo could just go to the highest bidder might not even be a max

[Eternia]

I have never, ever wanted to be a part of Tank World Order. Ever. Nevah, evah. But with them playing in Florida and sucking this bad and the draft class next year looking nice. I'm tempted...

The season is even more volatile with players shuffling in and out of the lineup more often. Having no crowd was interesting for a short while but it really makes it less fun to watch. And it feels like the team shouldn't be as bad as they are now although the ceiling is limited. Sounds like the perfect time to net a high pick + assets from trading Lowry.

[Brinbe]

Pascal still hasn't been the same since Covid hit. This was March 2020 so ten months ago.

Watch on YouTube

It's like watching a completely different player. The amount of confidence and smoothness to his game seen here is nowhere now. He's pressing so badly to get back to this and it's not happening right now. That layoff killed his game lol

[Psubs]

Lots of talk about Oldadipo and the heat but is it even a mutual interest?
I think the heat's main target is Beal and they gonna monitor that situation over anything else. So Dipo could just go to the highest bidder might not even be a max

Would be great to get him for what FVV is making. Get OG to recruit him.

Actually 3 years would lineup with Pascal and FVV's contracts ending and minimize risk.