Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX

[WallToWall]

1. Westbrook is untradeable.
2. A roster is 15 players -- how do you see the resulting roster? No answer means you have no idea. If you aren't willing to get even that far, your "willingness" doesn't really express anything (other than your frustration, of course -- which we all share!).
3. "A second legit star" is a phrase that doesn't say enough. Who are the top 3 guys you'd like to go after, & how would you do it? Or, at least, name one guy who would accomplish what you would accomplish & tell me how you're going to get him.

1. Remember when we though that Wall was untradeable? Westbrook is tradeable....just have to find the right price and taker.
2. On a team that already has a "big-3", there is no need to fill the 15 man roster with quality players from start to end of the bench. Most teams with a "big-3" only go 8 or 9 deep, if that. Fill in the rest with scrubs on the cheap or 2 way players.
3. Knicks, Cavs, Wizards. Knicks get Ish Smith + Larry Nance + Wagner + Wizards 2022 top 8 protected pick. Cavs get Westbrook + 2022 Round 2 pick. Wizards get Drummond + Randle. Works in trade machine on tradenba.com. Cavs are trying to dump Drummond. Knicks may not want to part with Randle, so maybe have to sweeten the deal.
Adding Drummond and Randle will give us enough inside presence. Add Beal, and you have enough to get into the playoffs at least.

[doclinkin]

I don't think Ted's #1 objective is to keep Beal at all costs. It's to keep fan interest at all costs.

Then you haven't been paying attention to Ted. Ted holds fans in disdain, or at least takes a base level of fandom for granted. He thinks he is the smartest guy in the room and figures the fans will come around. He thinks his double-bottomline mindset means we need to create a new culture here, a 'wizards way' that will build a winner by osmosis from finding players with the right attitude. He envisions Beal as a mentor for young players in how to be a good character guy and a winner, and expects him to join the front office and be with the franchise even long after his playing days are done. Ted has said he is adamantly against tanking to get good and has mocked Philly for their 7 years in The Process and that he wants his team to try for the playoffs every year, with no excuses.

If Beal wants out then of course they will accommodate him, as they do with every player who wants out. But I think he will make every last ditch effort to add players around Beal to convince him they are trying to build a winner. This next offseason is the last chance he has to do so, I fully suspect that is the mandate he has given Tommy considering how loudly publicly he is devoted to keeping Beal.

[truwizfan4evr]

Would anyone be interested us signing Rondae Hollis Jefferson? Pretty good defender and slasher and still very young.

[doclinkin]

Including a pick in the Westbrook deal went against everything Shepp has said in the past so maybe you right about the level of desperation to hold onto to Beal.

As far as targets like Love or Horford, I have a more realistic one. Jerami Grant. It was suggested by TGW on the trade board but I could definitely see Shepp making a play for the local kid on the rise using our pick. I think they'll keep Westbrook and try to manage his minutes. That's your new big three. Add you can add in whatever throwback C Shepp can sign for the mid level on the first day of free agency to backup Alex Len lol.

Sounds like a Ted approved plan. Russ may be here for the duration, since Brooks loves him and Ted is not so good at admitting that he's wrong. I still think though that even a midseason move is not unlikely since they have really gone all in on Beal.

Granted I hope I'm wrong and all bets are on the table, and that championships are the goal always. I have doubts that this team is headed anywhere but mediocre unless they get a radical influx of talent. I like Beal just fine, but unless we get a game-changer in the lotto, Beal has shown that what he brings is not enough to translate into wins.

In general though, this team telegraphs their moves, they don't tend to surprise you. They are stating that they are building around Beal and I fully expect they will try to do that for as long as they can. No other options are acceptable. I'd love to keep Beal as a mentor to a top pick in the draft, jettison Brooks and shift a declining Westbrook to a bench role. Player coach. Whatever works. And then let the young pups grow under a real system. I just think it's entirely possible they will trade future success for short term appeasement, of Ted if not the fans. In hopes that they can show at least they *tried* to do everything they could to keep their promise to Beal to build a winner around him.

[payitforward]

1. Westbrook is untradeable.

He could probably be moved for the carcass of Blake Griffin with little incentive added.

He could be moved tomorrow for much smaller contracts if the Wizards attached the unprotected 2021 pick and Avdija in the deal.

No one is untradeable. Its just whether the price to move him is tolerable or not.

Yes, of course.... If you are willing to attach enough good stuff & take back enough bad stuff, anyone can be traded. But, I was attempting to work within the parameters of prime's ideas -- trade for a star!

[payitforward]

1. Westbrook is untradeable.
2. A roster is 15 players -- how do you see the resulting roster? No answer means you have no idea. If you aren't willing to get even that far, your "willingness" doesn't really express anything (other than your frustration, of course -- which we all share!).
3. "A second legit star" is a phrase that doesn't say enough. Who are the top 3 guys you'd like to go after, & how would you do it? Or, at least, name one guy who would accomplish what you would accomplish & tell me how you're going to get him.

1. Remember when we though that Wall was untradeable? Westbrook is tradeable....just have to find the right price and taker.
2. On a team that already has a "big-3", there is no need to fill the 15 man roster with quality players from start to end of the bench. Most teams with a "big-3" only go 8 or 9 deep, if that. Fill in the rest with scrubs on the cheap or 2 way players.
3. Knicks, Cavs, Wizards. Knicks get Ish Smith + Larry Nance + Wagner + Wizards 2022 top 8 protected pick. Cavs get Westbrook + 2022 Round 2 pick. Wizards get Drummond + Randle. Works in trade machine on tradenba.com. Cavs are trying to dump Drummond. Knicks may not want to part with Randle, so maybe have to sweeten the deal.
Adding Drummond and Randle will give us enough inside presence. Add Beal, and you have enough to get into the playoffs at least.

Ok... I give up. How anyone can imagine that the Cavs would take on Westbrook's $120m in order to rid themselves of Andre Drummond -- who is expiring this year! -- I don't know. On top of which they have to include Larry Nance!

Wow. But, you bet, if that can happen then, sure, we can trade Westbrook & walk away with a star.

[FNQ]

They wouldn't do that. Not in a million years.

If Beal goes to the Warriors, he gets us back a massive contract, Wiseman and a 1st. That's it in a best case scenario (assuming the first would be Manny's). I highly doubt we get another first thrown in, let alone multiple firsts.

We really could swing it with Oubre this year, or with salary ballast from an Oubre deal (my favorite has been for Rubio but kinda feel like we've done enough to Minny).

I've maintained that Oubre + Wiseman + Poole (gets us to 27m, add Wanamaker to make it a clean 30) + MIN 1st would be a pretty damn good offer to a rebuilding team, if WSH decided to go that route. I know its not much quantity, but quality-wise I dont know who else can match it between current young players + high level picks. I'm not sure what Denver's draft stockpile looks like, and I'm not sure how much Wiz fans like Porter (I am and have been a huge fan, think he's a top 2 option at the peak of his career), but that's just how I feel about it, and probably wouldnt go much further. Maybe far enough to protect the Wiz in case the MIN pick doesnt relay in 2021, but considering its unprotected in 2022 and I just dont see them getting fixed anytime soon, dont think that brings in much.

But in terms of quality/quantity, I do have a question:

Not saying you'd accept either one, but which offer has more appeal:

Expirings + Wiseman + MIN 1st

or

Expirings + MIN 1st + GS pick swap 2021 + GS 1st 2022 + pick swap 2023 (universal) + pick swap 2025 + GS 1st 2026?

I lean definitely towards the former because our pick situation (and yours) likely means you guys are essentially subbing out Wiseman for our 1st in 2022, a potential pick swap in 2025, and our 1st in 2026.. and I dont think Sheppard would be down for that long of a wait after the Wall/WB trade.

[doclinkin]

They wouldn't do that. Not in a million years.

If Beal goes to the Warriors, he gets us back a massive contract, Wiseman and a 1st. That's it in a best case scenario (assuming the first would be Manny's). I highly doubt we get another first thrown in, let alone multiple firsts.

We really could swing it with Oubre this year, or with salary ballast from an Oubre deal (my favorite has been for Rubio but kinda feel like we've done enough to Minny).

I've maintained that Oubre + Wiseman + Poole (gets us to 27m, add Wanamaker to make it a clean 30) + MIN 1st would be a pretty damn good offer to a rebuilding team, if WSH decided to go that route.

You forget we have already had Oubre and he didn't really develop much with us either. Any team tends to value higher unknown possibilities or proven qualities than talented under performers. The same way there is a reason everyone is floating Wiseman trades even in his first year in the league. A solid instant hi caliber top 3 pick is never discussed in trade talks. GSW was trying to trade off of Wiseman before they even picked him. Nope. We would be trading a good character guy with powerful work ethic and undeniable BBIQ for yet another in a collection of developmental projects. We have been down that road before with JaVale, Nick Young, Blatche, Kwame Brown, etc etc etc etc. The only thing of real value in the trade is an extra top pick. There will be better offers if Beal makes it clear he would like to win elsewhere.

[FNQ]

They wouldn't do that. Not in a million years.

If Beal goes to the Warriors, he gets us back a massive contract, Wiseman and a 1st. That's it in a best case scenario (assuming the first would be Manny's). I highly doubt we get another first thrown in, let alone multiple firsts.

We really could swing it with Oubre this year, or with salary ballast from an Oubre deal (my favorite has been for Rubio but kinda feel like we've done enough to Minny).

I've maintained that Oubre + Wiseman + Poole (gets us to 27m, add Wanamaker to make it a clean 30) + MIN 1st would be a pretty damn good offer to a rebuilding team, if WSH decided to go that route.

You forget we have already had Oubre and he didn't really develop much with us either. Any team tends to value higher unknown possibilities or proven qualities than talented under performers. The same way there is a reason everyone is floating Wiseman trades even in his first year in the league. A solid instant hi caliber top 3 pick is never discussed in trade talks. GSW was trying to trade off of Wiseman before they even picked him. Nope. We would be trading a good character guy with powerful work ethic and undeniable BBIQ for yet another in a collection of developmental projects. We have been down that road before with JaVale, Nick Young, Blatche, Kwame Brown, etc etc etc etc. The only thing of real value in the trade is an extra top pick. There will be better offers if Beal makes it clear he would like to win elsewhere.

oh god no, let me be crystal clear - Oubre's value is as an expiring. He carries no value as a player in this model.. if someone can harness his talent, best of luck to them. But he's basically a Pietrus, a Zoolander, a scarecrow.. he'd be so good if he only had a brain

Also.. we were trying to trade Wiseman before we picked him? where's that from? We were locked in to him for a while, to the point where MIN's GM kept trying to pretend he was taking Wiseman so we'd give him their 1st back

If that offer isnt good enough thats cool though, I dont know that I'd go much further than that. Our offer would have to be based on quality over quantity because we have a lot of pick issues beyond the next couple seasons

[The Consiglieri]

I'd take the Wiseman part w/o a problem, would have to think on the 'picks option, last I heard, '22 looks pretty damn good too, so that lack of protection for the Minnesota pick in '22 is incredibly attractive.

I view this a bit differently, I don't think there are many if any better offers out there unless it's a 3+ team trade because so many picks are already traded, so many pick swaps have already happened, and most of the teams that own the picks of trash teams aren't going to move them in a Beal trade, period, so the Warriors are the most attractive option to me simply due to the asset value of the pieces. Very flippable, and carry inherent value that should hold for a while too creating flexibility w/prospects, or for future trades.

I'm a believer in either you are a contender, your in the process of finishing touches w/a contender, or you're blowing it up. The Wizards can't win under any scenario barring landing a LeBron/KD/Anthony Davis caliber mega elite player in the lottery and as such, I'm 1000% behind blowing it up. There's zero chance we retain Beal in '22 unless we land one of those spectacular mega players in the next 18 months. So yeah I'd rather start the rebuild sooner, and start building around the handful of kids we've got. We aren't winning anything with Beal barring a miracle, and the clock is down to 18 months and ticking at this point.

[nate33]

But in terms of quality/quantity, I do have a question:

Not saying you'd accept either one, but which offer has more appeal:

Expirings + Wiseman + MIN 1st

or

Expirings + MIN 1st + GS pick swap 2021 + GS 1st 2022 + pick swap 2023 (universal) + pick swap 2025 + GS 1st 2026?

I lean definitely towards the former because our pick situation (and yours) likely means you guys are essentially subbing out Wiseman for our 1st in 2022, a potential pick swap in 2025, and our 1st in 2026.. and I dont think Sheppard would be down for that long of a wait after the Wall/WB trade.

Hmmm. I think I'd take the second deal as long as the 2025 pick swap and 2026 1st are unprotected.

But before I made the decision, I'd ask around to see what Wiseman could be flipped for. If someone would trade, say a #6-10 pick in this draft for Wiseman, then I'd take Wiseman and flip him.

[nate33]

Thread continued here: