Tank World Order

[ATLTimekeeper]

The anti tanker arguments in here are weak asf. As if the Spurs hofers didn’t play with THE GREATEST PF OF ALL TIME, and as if the assets we have to trade for a star wouldn’t leave us bare bones after the trade. Trading our best prospects for jimmy butler wouldn’t be even remotely comparable to adding him to the current heat roster. Also, Hero is not a #1 option so using him as a “you don’t need lottery picks” example is weak.

Those weren't the arguments.

[MixxSRC]

At the moment this team is similar to Jrue Holiday, Lou Williams and Iguodala Sixers. Hope Masai does the right thing

[ATLTimekeeper]

I don't even understand this argument.

Ok, so it's unlikely you're going to draft the next LeBron, Giannis, Luka, etc.

Yes it is, no one is arguing that.

So the argument is then that the Raptors are more likely to either sign or trade a middling package for LeBron, Giannis or Luka?

This doesn't even acknowledge that you don't NEED an all time great player to build something meaningful. Obviously it would be nice, but it's such a bad faith argument that you need to get LeBron. So you're telling me it's unlikely a team can get the best/2nd best player of all time?

Put the scenarios to a neutral party and I think it becomes pretty obvious which scenario is best for acquiring high end talent/assets.

So, is the argument build something meaningful? The Raptors won at a .700 clip last season without any tanked for talent in their core. The best record in the league right now is a team that tanked and failed around the same time the Raptors did, and then subsequently rebuilt around a late lotto pick that they got from trading up in the draft with a middling prospect coming off a bad sophomore season and their own first, and then a bunch of smart FA signings and trades.

Personally I agree with you that the goal of all franchises should just be to build something meaningful and then hope that a lucky break vaults you into title contention. That's the most reasonable way to work with the uncertainty of the draft and the monopoly on titles by just a handful of players in the league. If the Raptors think they can turn the season around like when the Rudy Gay trade occurred, they should give it a shot. And, if they can't, they get a lotto pick. There's no need to overcomplicate the strategies, or waste energy rooting for losses for players that may or may not be worth the losses.

[bluerap23]

I don't even understand this argument.

Ok, so it's unlikely you're going to draft the next LeBron, Giannis, Luka, etc.

Yes it is, no one is arguing that.

So the argument is then that the Raptors are more likely to either sign or trade a middling package for LeBron, Giannis or Luka?

This doesn't even acknowledge that you don't NEED an all time great player to build something meaningful. Obviously it would be nice, but it's such a bad faith argument that you need to get LeBron. So you're telling me it's unlikely a team can get the best/2nd best player of all time?

Put the scenarios to a neutral party and I think it becomes pretty obvious which scenario is best for acquiring high end talent/assets.

So, is the argument build something meaningful? The Raptors won at a .700 clip last season without any tanked for talent in their core. The best record in the league right now is a team that tanked and failed around the same time the Raptors did, and then subsequently rebuilt around a late lotto pick that they got from trading up in the draft with a middling prospect coming off a bad sophomore season and their own first, and then a bunch of smart FA signings and trades.

Personally I agree with you that the goal of all franchises should just be to build something meaningful and then hope that a lucky break vaults you into title contention. That's the most reasonable way to work with the uncertainty of the draft and the monopoly on titles by just a handful of players in the league. If the Raptors think they can turn the season around like when the Rudy Gay trade occurred, they should give it a shot. And, if they can't, they get a lotto pick. There's no need to overcomplicate the strategies, or waste energy rooting for losses for players that may or may not be worth the losses.

Exactly. Isn't this what we just did? If it is acknowledged that you don't need a perennial MVP candidate to build something meaningful than that is exactly what we should do. Don't break what isn't broken and put your team into the dark ages for the hope of something that is extremely unlikely.

[Pooh_Jeter]

Here is the problem, what both of you are advocating isnt unreasonable, but this obviously isn't the championship team and frankly it's a major step down from the team last year too.

Lowry is past his prime at this point and likely gone. There isn't a single high ceiling prospect on this team.

This is the point, the team is trending down and they don't have assets. Your own picks and cap flexibility when A) You aren't a FA destination and B) The FA class sucks aren't comforting for the long term prospects of this team.

You're basically banking on getting a star for a major discount or drafting an all nba calibre player with a middling pick.

I think the vast majority of people would disagree that this is the right path forward (even if they arent necessarily pro tank), but its a moot point because we have had this discussion about likely outcomes 1000 times over.

[Steelo Green]

The Atlanta Hawks won 60 games and were fools gold.

The Sonics won 50 games, went to round two and followed it up with the lottery and they had Ray Allen.

You can have these exception years (and in this case with a still all-star Kyle, a Siakam playing above his head, and still key pieces in Marc and Serge) and follow it up with a mediocre year usually because your team was never that good to begin with and played above its heads.

Teams have better regular seasons than how good their team is. Sometimes even 60 win seasons.

I’m sure some Hawks fans thought Korver, Carroll, Horford, Teague could be a contender to. Reality is they weren’t that good and just had one good year.

Similar to us, parts have changed and our best player is fading.

[720]

Vucevic is a fraud.

Edit: Fournier too

These two have went for a combined 7-30 from the field.

[Inevitable]

We need to trade Pascal while he still has value

[Caped Crusader]

Huge L for tWo tonight.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

[Steelo Green]

[720]

Okay so Vucevic is still a bitch even after Gasol left. So we’re probably winning the next game too. Kings loss came in clutch.

[Syd-TK3]

Huge L for tWo tonight.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

Not really this was a very expected win
Magic are terrible and then they lost gordon on top of it.

Tuesday will be closer but they probably still win. After that is when the tank really goes into action

[Preliudas]

Huge L for tWo tonight.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

tWo plan is falling apart

[Basketball_Jones]

Lol Orlando is really bad I didn’t expect a loss there. They really need to tank even more then us

[720]

I wonder if Aaron Gordon was was drafted by some better franchise like the spurs or us what his hypothetical NBA trajectory would have been. Orlando killed that guy’s career.

[ATLTimekeeper]

I wonder if Aaron Gordon was was drafted by some better franchise like the spurs or us what his hypothetical NBA trajectory would have been. Orlando killed that guy’s career.

Most of his problems are upstairs, so it's questionable whether he would have passed the Spurs' interviews. Is there something he should have become? He's a decent player who has improved his skill level quite a bit since entering the league. He wasn't like some college standout that struggled in the NBA. imo I'd put him at the 4th or 5th best lotto pick in that draft, which is where he went. It just turned out that that lotto was wildly overhyped.

[Morse Code]

I love when people use regular season records as an indication of success. It’s so well thought out.

[ATLTimekeeper]

I mean, you literally admitted you just want to fantasize about drafting a special player not too long ago. That is at its core, not a rational argument. I don't knock you for wanting that, but we're talking about team building strategy and not fantasy indulging.

[720]

I wonder if Aaron Gordon was was drafted by some better franchise like the spurs or us what his hypothetical NBA trajectory would have been. Orlando killed that guy’s career.

Most of his problems are upstairs, so it's questionable whether he would have passed the Spurs' interviews. Is there something he should have become? He's a decent player who has improved his skill level quite a bit since entering the league. He wasn't like some college standout that struggled in the NBA. imo I'd put him at the 4th or 5th best lotto pick in that draft, which is where he went. It just turned out that that lotto was wildly overhyped.

He was picked 4th but I’d rather have Smart, Randle, Dinwiddie, Lavine, Warren, Nurkic, Jerami Grant, Jokic, and Capela (all drafted after him).

[DelAbbot]

We need to trade Pascal while he still has value

Or wait for him to earn enough experience as offensive focal point to become consistent as that player we saw beginning of 2019/2020 season. Make Pascal 1B and bring in a 1A via FA or trade or draft - championship with OG and others.