Shaq dominated weak centers in the 3 peat finals, but failed to outplay great ones

[Gibson22]

Shaq was a monster. Personally I have had him at #5 all time for the past few years. But I have a reflection to make. Shaq had enormous qualities. He was probably the biggest/strongest player ever, and one of the greatest basketball athletes ever. At 7'1 and 350 with a 7'7" wingspan he was unmovable in the post, and he was one of the 2 (him, kareem) best postup scorers ever, an all time level scorer in general and had great offensive gravity, again only him and kareem qualify, imho, between centers, as all time level offensive players (as in top 10/15). He also had enormous flaws: he was one of the most inept shooters ever, probably the first guy that comes to your head if you think of a big center who cannot shoot. While he was still a good defender, his lack of mobility, will, and at times rim protection warranted critics, and he doesn't compare to most ATG centers, a position whose value is often most appreciable in the defensive end: russell, wilt, hakeem, drob, ewing, duncan, kg all goat level defenders, but also guys like kareem etc, all leagues above him.
He also was notorious for his poor work ethic, and, while his longevity is still very good, especially for a guy that big, it's safe to say that he could have extended his elite playing level even more, and, more importantly he missed a lot of rs games and he took a lot of rs months to get in tip top shape. For example he only has 1 mvp.

Now we get to the point. When we think of shaq, we think of that 3 peat, those 3 finals. We see him as a guy that when he's on, when it matters, you can't stop him from being a 35-15, or 40-20 machine, but isn't our perception skewed by what he did in those 3 finals, that we assume were his usual level? Don't get me wrong, dominating 3 finals in a row like shaq did is one of the most impressive accomplishments we have in sports, literally dominating at the highest level, that's what greatness is about. But who did he play against in those finals? Weak teams and weak centers (except old mutombo)

Especially in those years and for the center position, it was a 1 on 1 matchup between the postup big and the postup defender, so, a battle between the two starting centers. Not only shaq didn't perform in the rs as well as he performed in those finals, he didn't perform close to that in the previous rounds, where kobe (except 2000) had a comparable level of play, and considering all his career he didn't perform like that basically every time he met a good level centers.
I'm basically saying shaq was good at annihiliating weak centers, not that great at outperforming great ones. Let's dive into it.


1995, he got swept by hakeeem's rockets. Me personally I don't believe he got outperformed, but still he got swept and the public perception was that hakeem bested him. Again, imho, pretty impressive that a third year shaq held his own against peak hakeem, but still.

97 and 98: got eliminated twice by malone's jazz, 4-1 and 4-0, was probably outplayed by karl malone

99: this is what prompted this post: shaq was absolutely outplayed, and swept, by timmy d. While you can say stuff to excuse previous performances against great centers (hakeem maybe didn't outplay him, malone was a 4 and shaq still put up great numbers against him), the only excuse you can make for this is that the spurs also had drob. But drob was old. Anyway, drob was obviousy huge defensively, and it was huge to have 2 all time level 7 feet defenders, but if you watch the series timmy d absolutely had his way vs shaq offensively, scored on him every time, just too quick and skilled and so many moves in the post and also had a shot. Also defensively I didn't do the tracking but shaq struggled against duncan 1 on 1 more than duncan did against shaq. And this wasn't the perfect system, ginobili parker spurs, they were a great defensive teams but offensively they were a random team, random players with a great force in timmy d. Duncan was also in his second year.

94 and 96 he got swept by mj's bulls and reggie's pacers, in 94 he struggled against rik smits, admittedly, but this doesn't matter

Then we get to 2000-2002. Obviously great, legendary years for shaq, monster finals, great playoffs and great regular season, but but also who did he dominate against in the finals? And his western conference playoffs level doesnt' compare to his finals.

2000 finals: 38/17 on 61% fg (don't wanna mention his ts because it's brought down by terrible free throw shooting): against whom? against last year rik smits, austin croshere, dale davis, sam perkins.

2001 is the most impressive: 33/16/5 on 57,5 against one of the goat defenders in mutombo. Gotta give him credit, but still gotta mention that he was 34+, was more of a rim protector than a postup defender, and that he was a goat defender but an average offensive player, so he didn't force shaq to engage that much on the defensive end. Still, huge credit

2002 again 36/12 on 59,5 fg % against nobody. the nets were a team that had to be honoured to have reached the finals, they did their best but that was it. had literally nobody on shaq, todd macculloch was on him a lot, smaller kenyon martin etc. Really laughable opponents tbh.

So, except old mutombo, scrub centers.

Now let's take a look at the previous rounds:

2000: the famous series against the blazers. As tough, close at it gets. Who did the blazers have? Giant sabonis, rasheed. Shaq had more human numbers, 26/12 on 53,7%, sheed has 23/7 on 58,2 TS%.

2001: Easily his best postseason: dominated against everybody (sheed, webber, duncan, mutombo)

2002: compare his 36/12 on 59,5 on the nets with his numbers in the previous rounds: 26/11 56% against the blazers, 21/12 on 45% against the spurs (duncan 29/17 on better percentages) and the series against the kings, where he still put up his (30/13.5 on 53%) but didn't outplay chris webber (24/11/6) and more importantly was as close as it gets to going out


Now we get to the post 3 peat years: 2003, beat the timberwolves 4-2, didn't outplay kg, lost against the spurs 4-2, didn't outplay timmy d. They all had comparable numbers, me personally, like I say that hakeem didn't outplay him in 95, I feel like those 2 both were better than him that year.

2004 on his production really went down, already from this year when they got gentleman swept against the pistons with rasheed and ben on him.

To me the picture is pretty clear. Except for 2001, where shaq and the lakers absolutely dogged everyone and everything in his/their way, shaq's level doesn't match what he did in those finals against scrub centers:

He didn't outplay hakeem in 95, karl malone in 97, got outplayed by malone and duncan in 98 and 99, sheed and sabonis contained him and sheed played at a similar lelvel, again in 2002 saba and sheed contained him, duncan outplayed him, chris webber played at a similar level. 2003 didn't outplay kg and duncan, 2004 on his production went down. Also won just 1 mvp.


Compare to hakeem, who is notorious for winning all his duels against ATG centers. I can't say that, on average, shaq outplayed malone, or duncan, or kg, and he only slightly outplayed sheed or chris webber, like I can't say he was that much better than kobe in the rounds leading to the finals, or that his rs production is #5 all time worthy.

[celtics543]

Shaq was lazy. The guy had the ability to be even better but basically chose to try hard only when he absolutely had to.

I know you gave credit for 2001 but that was truly a thrashing against the reigning DPOY. Shaq was dominant but the guy had his warts. He was poorly conditioned, couldn't shoot free throws, and was lazy on defense for most of his career. But conversely he was easily the guy you'd choose to have on your team during just about his entire run from when he was drafted until 2006.

[Sakkreth]

His 3 peat is fake, 2000 and 2002 rigged so badly to favor the league's narrative. They only won legit in 2001.

[dans1230]

I think hes rated pretty appropriately. Hes never mentioned with the great winners of all time (Duncan, Russell, Kobe, Jordan) despite having 4 rings. He wasnt particularly skilled, he was extremely athletic for his size. His size with some unprecedented quickness sprinkled in made him unguardable, and he was an intimidator on defense. If he had spent as much time on his shot as he did on movies and music, i think we would be looking at a top 5 of all time player.

[GYK]

Are we upset and early 20 Shaq with Penny wasn’t truly ready?
He won right in the middle of his prime 27-30. Also outplayed during his prime is rare and especially considering the differences he and any of his peers or the best centers faced. He was doubled and tripled far more than they ever were. Teams actually believed they could play them straight until it was too late. 7fters were employed just to foul out against Shaq. Teams walked in knowing their gameplan was to throw the kitchen sink at him. Limited and overplayed he did absolutely need a closer. Same with Giannis(need to get cozy with Dame and fast).
Don’t make me defend Shaq, he’s an a$$hole

[Gibson22]

Edit: honestly my post was more about him vs great bigs compared to weak bigs than about him being overrated/underrated

[BadWolf]

Are we overrating Shaq....
You should stop here. We're not.

[70sFan]

I have Shaq the lowest among top 5 centers ever, but he faced Duncan/Robinson duo, Hakeem, Divac, Mutombo, Wallace and many good defensive teams without elite centers. This is not good argument against Shaq, I'd focus more on his limitiations on defense if anything.

[Marrrcuss]

The weak ones didnt make it to the finals when he did.

We dont get mad at Mike because the best 2 guards didnt make the finals while he was there.......unless you think the one handed, cant look up while he dribbles, Clyde the Glide was elite, lol

[Jables]

Man people are really mad about Inside the NBA recently huh? There's nothing for me to even refute because literally everything is framed as him being a giant fraud, I wouldn't know where to begin. I must have been missing something watching him play, all these dominant centers he is compared to didn't actually win more than he did, what's their excuse?

[gavran]

Shaq is not responsible for the competition he played againt.

[druggas]

Shaq has 4 rings because Wade and Kobe won 3 of them for him.

[dhsilv2]

Are you implying man to man defense is even a thing? No...this is a horrible take.

[SparksAC]

Shaq is the only big guy that Harden won't say "takes no skill for a 7 footer to run into the paint and dunk".

[Jack Dempsey]

I don't think he's overrated. I have him at #10 all time and from what I saw, the majority has him somewhere at the bottom of the Top 10 as well. There is a reason why Duncan and Hakeem are higher on the all time list.

[BenoUdrihFTL]

The weak ones didnt make it to the finals when he did.

We dont get mad at Mike because the best 2 guards didnt make the finals while he was there.......unless you think the one handed, cant look up while he dribbles, Clyde the Glide was elite, lol

Eh Clyde Drexler was elite by any measure

[Heat3]

Shaq dominated from the second he entered the league when there were plenty of hall of fame centers he was battling against.

[PMONSTER]

Shaq gets criticized because he only won 4 championships. They say he was lazy because he should've won more. Think about that.

[Danny1616]

No we didn't overrate him, Shaq at his peak was arguably the most dominant player ever, but I would love if this rumor spread to him so he could freak out and throw a temper tantrum out of his own insecurities.

[Gibson22]

Ok I changed the title to shift the focus on what I wanted to say: he put up huge numbers against weak centers, but got outplayed, didn't outplay or just slightly outplayed great ones too often