Game 15: MEM @ SAS

[ducler]

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[VCfor3]

Man our team is fun to watch! Shout out to literally every Grizz player who logged minutes this game. Everyone has looked great. Ja doing Ja things and drawing a ton of attention, Clarke finding his shot around the basket, Tillman doing so many small things (his positioning when other players drive is fantastic), Bane continues to show why he leads the league in 3pt percentage, Brooks playing within the flow and providing solid defense, Anderson doing a little of everything, Tyus orchestrating, Konchar coming up with big plays, Dieng stealing the hearts of all Grizz fans with his play, and Melton being his usual winning self. Hopefully we can keep this up and only get better when JJJ gets back.

[Whole Truth]

It's nice to come into game threads with nothing but praise. 9 of 10 players in double digits.

Jenkins for COTY

[Whole Truth]

Reading some Memphis content, I see posters suggesting to trade Jonas as a result of the last couple games.

The team looked great against the Spurs & edged the Suns but these people need to keep in mind, Memphis were playing a soft stretch PF as their starting C, where an undersized defensive big will look better guarding in space than Jonas, it's a given. This is the situational play, versatility I have been talking about & advocating for since the start of the rebuild last year, where Jonas will in turn dominate the slow footed big men matchups as he did with the Raptors & Ibaka.

What did Raptors trade Jonas off for? . yes, a defensive upgrade but another slow footed big to handle the teams with size. Without Gasol, Ibaka would have struggled against Vucevic & Embiid in the first 2 rounds.

Dieng has been great, he was playing like this in Minnesota when I suggested the trade last year, then after trade he struggled to shoot the ball in the bubble when needed. Then Memphis drafted a cheaper/controlled depth replacement in Tillman. Dieng is currently playing 3J's stretch C role as an ageing expiring. Who's the post big/size with Jonas gone?. I'm 2yrs ahead of the people advocating to trade Jonas off after playing 2 all be it great games.

The only other team Memphis played outside the Spurs were the Suns, where Ayton, who's not even close to an Embiid or Vucevic, dominated their double team. They won that close game because Booker struggled & chocked outside of Brooks defense, missing an open dunk & 3 in the final 2 mins, which cost them the game, unforced ...

When Memphis shows they can beat teams with skilled size, like Joker or a lengthy C's like Gobert, then I'd agree, there'd be no more need for Jonas. Until then, these people are rushing to judgement.

[Whole Truth]

Minnesota fans be like we can't win because of Kat's supporting cast.

Memphis fans be like their end of bench players Dieng & Tyius are great.

Me, I'd be looking to trade/poach the Wolves roster/supporting cast long before trading the farm for a volume offensive big.

[Whole Truth]

Memphis are tied with Denver for 4th seed & are on a 7 game win streak, media, yeah but Zion can jump really high.

[VCfor3]

Reading some Memphis content, I see posters suggesting to trade Jonas as a result of the last couple games.

The team looked great against the Spurs & edged the Suns but these people need to keep in mind, Memphis were playing a soft stretch PF as their starting C, where an undersized defensive big will look better guarding in space than Jonas, it's a given. This is the situational play, versatility I have been talking about & advocating for since the start of the rebuild last year, where Jonas will in turn dominate the slow footed big men matchups as he did with the Raptors & Ibaka.

What did Raptors trade Jonas off for? . yes, a defensive upgrade but another slow footed big to handle the teams with size. Without Gasol, Ibaka would have struggled against Vucevic & Embiid in the first 2 rounds.

Dieng has been great, he was playing like this in Minnesota when I suggested the trade last year, then after trade he struggled to shoot the ball in the bubble when needed. Then Memphis drafted a cheaper/controlled depth replacement in Tillman. Dieng is currently playing 3J's stretch C role as an ageing expiring. Who's the post big/size with Jonas gone?. I'm 2yrs ahead of the people advocating to trade Jonas off after playing 2 all be it great games.

The only other team Memphis played outside the Spurs were the Suns, where Ayton, who's not even close to an Embiid or Vucevic, dominated their double team. They won that close game because Booker struggled & chocked outside of Brooks defense, missing an open dunk & 3 in the final 2 mins, which cost them the game, unforced ...

When Memphis shows they can beat teams with skilled size, like Joker or a lengthy C's like Gobert, then I'd agree, there'd be no more need for Jonas. Until then, these people are rushing to judgement.

Yeah it was a good matchup to not have JV for. I don't mind trading one of Dieng or JV, but we need at least one big bodied center for those matchups you are talking about. If we can get a decent return for JV then sure move him, but if the offers are little more than an expiring contract you keep him and either trade Dieng now or let him walk in FA if you can't get anything for him. If JV is out tonight it'll be interesting to see how we do against Sabonis and Turner. This is a matchup you'd want him for.

[VCfor3]

Memphis are tied with Denver for 4th seed & are on a 7 game win streak, media, yeah but Zion can jump really high.

I've seen quite a few fans going after NOP for the Zion hype when Ja has thus far been better. I'm really glad we got the 2nd pick even though Zion probably still has the higher ceiling. Ja just makes everyone else better and has a much much higher floor (and maybe median outcome given how both have played thus far).

[E S V L]

Regarding JV, there are a few comments:

1. I have just tested the market.
2. I am fine with JV staying.
3. Unlike on the offensive end, JV isn’t a great defender.
4. In this PO, we can rely on the big bodies of Dieng and JJJ.
5. Some might argue that light legs and quick switches and rotation are the keys to our current defence being so successful. From this perspective, defending Embid by doubling on him can be more effective than placing on him JV.
6. A return for JV might bring us a Tillman 2.0 player with a big body.
7. We have stuck at the Centre position: Tillman, Dieng, JJJ, and JV. No much room for them at PF as Kyle and Clarke (+ Winslow coming) are too good at 4.

[Whole Truth]

Yeah it was a good matchup to not have JV for. I don't mind trading one of Dieng or JV, but we need at least one big bodied center for those matchups you are talking about. If we can get a decent return for JV then sure move him, but if the offers are little more than an expiring contract you keep him and either trade Dieng now or let him walk in FA if you can't get anything for him. If JV is out tonight it'll be interesting to see how we do against Sabonis and Turner. This is a matchup you'd want him for.

Sabonis is 6'10 with a 6'10 wing span, Turner is also a stretch PF/C. Memphis won't be overmatched physically without Jonas though he's played the Pacers/Turner well over the years..

Realistically speaking, when 3J returns to the lineup, his game & skillset is closest to what Dieng is currently bringing to the table. Neither handle the physicality as well as Jonas in those specific matchups I'm talking about.

I like Dieng & as you know suggested to trade for him last year to fill that depth/defensive/3J injury insurance void but then Memphis went & drafted Tillman who cheaply does that under rookie salary & control, whether he's used to start or close games matchup wise..

Jonas/Tillman --- 3J
3J /Clarke --- Anderson
Anderson/Winslow --- Brooks

Part of Memphis current success is Anderson being a playmaker at the 4, that could potentially push 3J to C & both Dieng & Jonas out the rotation.

[Whole Truth]

Regarding JV, there are a few comments:

1. I have just tested the market.
2. I am fine with JV staying.
3. Unlike on the offensive end, JV isn’t a great defender.
4. In this PO, we can rely on the big bodies of Dieng and JJJ.
5. Some might argue that light legs and quick switches and rotation are the keys to our current defence being so successful. From this perspective, defending Embid by doubling on him can be more effective than placing on him JV.
6. A return for JV might bring us a Tillman 2.0 player with a big body.
7. We have stuck at the Centre position: Tillman, Dieng, JJJ, and JV. No much room for them at PF as Kyle and Clarke (+ Winslow coming) are too good at 4.

Have you watched the Raptors/Jonas in the playoffs ?. If you haven't I'd suggest watching some tape.

The year Raptors beat Indiana & Heat to reach the Cavs both Lowry & Derozan were putting up historically bad playoff performances in both series. It was mainly Jonas & to a lesser extent Bizz that helped the Raptors reach the ECF before Jonas suffered an ankle sprain just after Whiteside went down to injury himself. This is when Heat ran Winslow at C taking Bizz/Raptors to 7 not having Jonas. Cavs then blew them out in all their wins on their way to a Championship with Bizz doing a great job defending Lebron protecting the paint Bizz had the strength speed & athleticism to guard Lebron in the open court & it didn't matter.

Raptors defensive issues vs Cavs were put on Jonas slow feet on defense when Raptors couldn't win with either Ibaka or Bizz starting at C paired with Derozan either.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Jonas+vs+Pacers+playoffs&&view=detail&mid=E1F2375AB4E83A094EC4E1F2375AB4E83A094EC4&&FORM=VRDGAR&ru=%2Fvideos%2Fsearch%3Fq%3DJonas%2Bvs%2BPacers%2Bplayoffs%26FORM%3DHDRSC3

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Jonas+vs+Heat+playoffs&ru=%2fvideos%2fsearch%3fq%3dJonas%2bvs%2bHeat%2bplayoffs%26FORM%3dHDRSC3&view=detail&mid=B4A4BB71350137C5DECDB4A4BB71350137C5DECD&&FORM=VDRVSR

[E S V L]

Have you watched the Raptors/Jonas in the playoffs ?. If you haven't I'd suggest watching some tape.

What is your point? We have no chance in PO without JV? You want to resign him for 5 more years as our starting center? or you just think that he is a great big weapon, very useful in PO, and we should keep him to the end of his existing contract?

[Whole Truth]

Have you watched the Raptors/Jonas in the playoffs ?. If you haven't I'd suggest watching some tape.

What is your point? We have no chance in PO without JV? You want to resign him for 5 more years as our starting center? or you just think that he is a great big weapon, very useful in PO, and we should keep him to the end of his existing contract?

I saw you post that reason for trading Jonas on the trade board. By that same reasoning, Memphis have a chance to make the playoffs without 3J who hasn't played a game this year who's potential has more trade value than an expiring Jonas.. 2 good games against a PF playing C without Jonas or 3J for that matter doesn't make them expendable.

Do I think Memphis should retain him? yes. Would I trade him? it would depend on the return but his perceived trade value is lower than his court value.

Jonas character & team first mentality will allow Jenkins to use him as he sees fit, there will be no issues with the minute distribution, starting or coming off the bench. This will give Memphis better depth & versatility with 3J not yet proving he can stay healthy for a full season. Reason I suggested Dieng as a trade target with Memphis having Jonas & Clarke ,,, Just so happens 3J will miss the first quarter of this season & Deing filled in nicely ...

Jonas & Dieng currently makeup 23m in salary. With Memphis drafting Tillman on rookie scale & control, Jonas is not going to demand more than 15m in salary meaning that unless Dieng is traded for long term salary, Memphis big man rotation of Clarke, Tillma, 3J & Jonas will be making less than the 2 are this year combined if Jonas is retained..

[E S V L]

“but his perceived trade value is lower than his court value.”

It is a very good point.

[Whole Truth]

“but his perceived trade value is lower than his court value.”

It is a very good point.

I don't like selling low but it's not the main reason for me wanting to retain him. Wait till we face Jokic, Gobert, Embiid, Vucevic, etc & then tell me whether it's time to trade him or not.

[E S V L]

I seriously doubt the notion of extending JV.

[E S V L]

“but his perceived trade value is lower than his court value.”

It is a very good point.

I don't like selling low but it's not the main reason for me wanting to retain him. Wait till we face Jokic, Gobert, Embiid, Vucevic, etc & then tell me whether it's time to trade him or not.

That`s a valid point. Let`s then keep imagining and visualize JV defending 1-on-1 Mitchel or Murray after he got switched beyond the arc.

[jman3134]

You could make the same argument with any of the NBA's talented bigs.

[E S V L]

You could make the same argument with any of the NBA's talented bigs.

Fair