NBA MVP Discussion 20/21 (Fresh poll ➥ Vote)

[TheProfessor]

My point is, if you have superstar teammates, you are going to have to have a monster season to win MVP in spite of that.

Hes not, and hes having one of his worst. With so many other players having much better seasons then him, with less talent surrounding them. He should not even be considered for MVP.

This is why we look beyond PPGZ, you realize the only reason Lebron's numbers are down is that he is playing the fewest minutes in his career right? He also affecting outside the boxscore, this shown as he blowing everyone out of the water in RAPM outside of McCollums mini hot streak.

Lebron is in the Conversation for MVP because 1. Most impactful player in the NBA 2. Strong record 3. Narrative.

AD took the Lakers from lottery to title. You gonna just skip over that and act like thats nothing? LeBron is not carrying scrubs. Hes far from the player he once was. Where do you think the Lakers would be this season without AD? They wouldnt even be in the top 6.

You cant have another player that good and still be in the running for MVP. Which is one of the reasons why he wont win. Though the narrative during the season is interesting.

Are you going to act like that Lakers team was actually a lottery team or was it because LBJ was injured. Your correct Lebron isn't carrying Scrubs, he's carrying role players and helping them contribute to winning again shown via RAPM. Lebron a different animal, he finally has true gravity. He is shooting 40% from 3 on 7/fga. I think this has been his best regular season in a while.
But if you want to talk about players with off seasons, AD has been off. I also think without AD, the lakers would be a top 4-5 team. Also if take the second-best player off a team, where would LAC be?
Jokic, Curry, Doncic are the 3 guys that don't have a talent narrative that you keep talking about and their records are not that great.
Teams like PHI, Nets, MKE, LAC are way more talented than LAL.
Lebron is the most impactful player in the NBA on a per-minute basis on one of the best teams in the NBA to say he is not in the running or won't win the MVP is ridiculous. Every MVP candidate has flaws this season, this has to be one of the weakest years for MVP.

[Gatorade Sax]

^^^Weak year for MVP? The fact that we are genuinely considering such an array of guys makes me think it’s the opposite. The years where pretty much 1 guy is the clear winner for half the season are ‘weak’ to me.

[Inspektor1312]

Every MVP candidate has flaws this season, this has to be one of the weakest years for MVP.

Is this what Lebron stans are telling themselves in order to justify putting him above guys like Embiid and Jokic?

[trueballer7]

Every MVP candidate has flaws this season, this has to be one of the weakest years for MVP.

Is this what Lebron stans are telling themselves in order to justify putting him above guys like Embiid and Jokic?

He doesnt need justifications for anything, from the moment he entered the public eye as NBA's and the media numero uno investment. They just assign titles, attributes and regalia to him and let the others try to dispute them. Yesterday ESPN came out with this top notch journalistic product ''Lebron is the best 36 year old in the history of the NBA''. They then proceeded to compare Malone's 25.5 points per game in 2000 with Lebrons' 25.2 in 2021 and gave Lebron the nod because of his superior assist numbers. He is now officially the best 36 year old in NBA history and if you try to dispute it then poor ole Lebron will have to endure another episode of being ''the most scrutinized athlete in basketball history''. The perfect hype machine

[TheProfessor]

Every MVP candidate has flaws this season, this has to be one of the weakest years for MVP.

Is this what Lebron stans are telling themselves in order to justify putting him above guys like Embiid and Jokic?

Embiid, missed 5 games already. Playing in a weaker conference and while putting up only comparable record to other contenders. Playing on a Stacked team, Tobias is an all-star this year.

Jokic, the record needs to be better for him to have a chance.

Kawhi: slow start pedestrian raw numbers+PG is playing better.

Doncic: Record

Curry, Durant and Giannis just have no chance, narratives against them. No likes GSW and Durant is on a super stacked team and how many times are writers going to fall for Giannis's bs. There is no 3rd time.

Lebron has flaws too, he is putting on pedestrian raw numbers while playing very low minutes and has AD as a double-weighted anchor to his MVP chances (Hasnt been good, but has name recognition).

I personally have
1. Embiid
2. Lebron
3. Jokic
4. Kawhi
5. Doncic

Embiid is definitely the front runner for MVP, problem is if he plays 5x games then it will be very difficult for him to win MVP or his team slips while playing in the weaker conference then there will be issues.

If Denver slides into the top 3 record wise, Jokic surpasses Lebron. Only blemish right now is the record. Same thing with Doncic, just to a more extreme degree.

Kawhi with the way PG is playing and the failure in the playoffs, it'll be hard. I think Kawhi has to be special going forward like 29/10/5 while having the best record by atleast a few games. Definitely capable.

Lebron just needs to play more and stop coasting.

[Sgt Major]

It's pointless to talk about Jokic's or Doncic's record when LeBron has Davis, Gasol and a bunch of other vets next to him.

Give Jokic AD and watch the league crumble under their terror.

[Ballerhogger]

Joel, Kawhi,Lebron are the front runners right now

[Inspektor1312]

Lebron has flaws too, he is putting on pedestrian raw numbers while playing very low minutes and has AD as a double-weighted anchor to his MVP chances (Hasnt been good, but has name recognition).

People keep mentioning that Lebron is playing "very low minutes" which is very funny, and implies that somehow that's why his numbers aren't impressive compared to other MVP candidates. He's actually playing more minutes(33.5) than Giannis(32.9) and Embiid(31.6), and just a minute or two less than Doncic(34.8), Kawhi(34.1) and Jokic(35.8). Y'all are acting like he's at 30mpg and others are at 40mpg.

He's the only candidate(other than Kawhi) that has a legit superstar as a sidekick, along with a stacked team. The only way for him to earn the MVP award in my mind is if LAL have a historic regular season comparable to 15-16 Warriors(ain't gonna happen) or if his individual stats start going way up(unlikley).

The only things he has going for him right now compared to others are his old age and his name. Maybe ESPN can create the Most Valuable Old Guy award so James can decorate his CV with a few more awards.

[Yank3525]

Stacked teams didn’t prevent LeBron from winning in 2012 and 2013, so it shouldn’t prevent Durant. Team record will be the deciding factor, if the Nets win 58+ and Durant keeps up his current production then he has good shot winning especially given the injury he has come back from.

[Hello Brooklyn]

Seems kind of absurd that Kawhi hasn't been in the conversation.

Hes putting up 50/40/90 stats and Clips have the best record.

If they finish with the best record in the West I think he wins it.

[Peregrine01]

Seems kind of absurd that Kawhi hasn't been in the conversation.

Hes putting up 50/40/90 stats and Clips have the best record.

If they finish with the best record in the West I think he wins it.

His teammate has been playing better than him.

IMO, it's between Jokic and Embiid right now.

[scrabbarista]

Seems kind of absurd that Kawhi hasn't been in the conversation.

Hes putting up 50/40/90 stats and Clips have the best record.

If they finish with the best record in the West I think he wins it.

His teammate has been playing better than him.

PPG = Kawhi
AST/TO = Kawhi (tied in APG, PG has literally twice as many TO's per game)
BPG = Kawhi
STLPG = Kawhi
WS = Kawhi
VORP = Kawhi
PER = Kawhi
FG% = Kawhi
FT% = Kawhi
USG% = Kawhi (even with PG's TO% @ 17.6% compared to Kawhi's 7.3%)
OnCourt = Kawhi
On-Off = Kawhi
ORtg = Kawhi
DRtg = Kawhi
RAPTOR WAR = Kawhi
RAPTOR = Kawhi

RPG = PG, by 1.2 rebounds
TS% = PG, but both are stellar

[Hello Brooklyn]

Seems kind of absurd that Kawhi hasn't been in the conversation.

Hes putting up 50/40/90 stats and Clips have the best record.

If they finish with the best record in the West I think he wins it.

His teammate has been playing better than him.

IMO, it's between Jokic and Embiid right now.

Not even close to true. Kawhi is the best player on that team by any statistical measure.

Jokic isn't in the conversation until Denver is a top 3 seed in the West.

Right now its between Embiid, LeBron and Kawhi.

[iamworthy]

Seems kind of absurd that Kawhi hasn't been in the conversation.

Hes putting up 50/40/90 stats and Clips have the best record.

If they finish with the best record in the West I think he wins it.

His teammate has been playing better than him.

IMO, it's between Jokic and Embiid right now.

Not even close to true. Kawhi is the best player on that team by any statistical measure.

Jokic isn't in the conversation until Denver is a top 3 seed in the West.

Right now its between Embiid, LeBron and Kawhi.

You do realize that PG is also putting up 50/40/90 with a better TS% than kwahi right?

PG and kwahi have both been really good.

[scrabbarista]

As of the morning of February 2nd.

-------------------------------------------------------

1. 21.6 - Leonard, LAC
2. 21.6 - Jokic, DEN
3. 20.7 - Conley, UTA +1
4. 20.4 - Embiid, PHI -1
5. 19.5 - James, LAL +1

6. 18.2 - Gobert, UTA +1
7. 16.8 - Durant, BKN -2
8. 16.4 - Middleton, MIL (n/a)
9. 16.1 - George, LAC +1
10. 16.1 - Davis, LAL -2

-----------------------------------------------------

LeBron James enters the top five while Kevin Durant goes into a free fall.

Leonard tops Jokic by .08 points.

I get that Conley looks weird or even crazy that high. He's +18 per100 when he's on the court, and his On-Off per100 is a preposterous +27 in 599 minutes. When those numbers come down to reality a little, he'll drop out of the top five. The formula was designed to make sense over 82 games, not twenty.

Similarly, Kawhi's (almost certainly) unsustainable +/-'s are giving him a boost. In Kawhi's case, however, it's a smaller boost and much more in line with his actual impact. Kawhi will likely drop due to +/-, but not necessarily by much.

[scrabbarista]

His teammate has been playing better than him.

IMO, it's between Jokic and Embiid right now.

Not even close to true. Kawhi is the best player on that team by any statistical measure.

Jokic isn't in the conversation until Denver is a top 3 seed in the West.

Right now its between Embiid, LeBron and Kawhi.

You do realize that PG is also putting up 50/40/90 with a better TS% than kwahi right?

Kawhi's also 50/40/90, on more shots and more points. If you break it down, the only thing PG is clearly doing better than Kawhi is shoot threes - and Kawhi is still at .410 from range. PG has a very slight edge in rebounding, but rebounding is more dependent on role than ever before in the modern NBA. Most teams don't even bother with the offensive glass, so DRB%, in particular, is often just a function of "who did the ball bounce to?" Individual rebounding doesn't mean what is used to mean - though it still matters, of course.

PPG = Kawhi
AST/TO = Kawhi (tied in APG, PG has literally twice as many TO's per game)
BPG = Kawhi
STLPG = Kawhi
WS = Kawhi
VORP = Kawhi
PER = Kawhi
FG% = Kawhi
FT% = Kawhi
USG% = Kawhi (even with PG's TO% @ 17.6% compared to Kawhi's 7.3%)
OnCourt = Kawhi
On-Off = Kawhi
ORtg = Kawhi
DRtg = Kawhi
RAPTOR WAR = Kawhi
RAPTOR = Kawhi

RPG = PG, by 1.2 rebounds
TS% = PG, but both are stellar

[iamworthy]

Not even close to true. Kawhi is the best player on that team by any statistical measure.

Jokic isn't in the conversation until Denver is a top 3 seed in the West.

Right now its between Embiid, LeBron and Kawhi.

You do realize that PG is also putting up 50/40/90 with a better TS% than kwahi right?

Kawhi's also 50/40/90, on more shots and more points. If you break it down, the only thing PG is clearly doing better than Kawhi is shoot threes - and Kawhi is still at .410 from range. PG has a very slight edge in rebounding, but rebounding is more dependent on role than ever before in the modern NBA. Most teams don't even bother with the offensive glass, so DRB%, in particular, is often just a function of "who did the ball bounce to?" Individual rebounding doesn't mean what is used to mean - though it still matters, of course.

PPG = Kawhi
AST/TO = Kawhi (tied in APG, PG has literally twice as many TO's per game)
BPG = Kawhi
STLPG = Kawhi
WS = Kawhi
VORP = Kawhi
PER = Kawhi
FG% = Kawhi
FT% = Kawhi
USG% = Kawhi (even with PG's TO% @ 17.6% compared to Kawhi's 7.3%)
OnCourt = Kawhi
On-Off = Kawhi
ORtg = Kawhi
DRtg = Kawhi
RAPTOR WAR = Kawhi
RAPTOR = Kawhi

RPG = PG, by 1.2 rebounds
TS% = PG, but both are stellar

So is this thread about who realgm thinks will win the MVP or who we think the NBA will award the MVP to?

[Jurassic_Park]

how good is basketball refernece mvp tracker at picking the winner? Wonder how their historical tracker stacks up with the actual winner?

Right now bball ref has:
1. Jokic
2. Embiid
3. Kawhi
3. Lebron

[scrabbarista]

You do realize that PG is also putting up 50/40/90 with a better TS% than kwahi right?

Kawhi's also 50/40/90, on more shots and more points. If you break it down, the only thing PG is clearly doing better than Kawhi is shoot threes - and Kawhi is still at .410 from range. PG has a very slight edge in rebounding, but rebounding is more dependent on role than ever before in the modern NBA. Most teams don't even bother with the offensive glass, so DRB%, in particular, is often just a function of "who did the ball bounce to?" Individual rebounding doesn't mean what is used to mean - though it still matters, of course.

PPG = Kawhi
AST/TO = Kawhi (tied in APG, PG has literally twice as many TO's per game)
BPG = Kawhi
STLPG = Kawhi
WS = Kawhi
VORP = Kawhi
PER = Kawhi
FG% = Kawhi
FT% = Kawhi
USG% = Kawhi (even with PG's TO% @ 17.6% compared to Kawhi's 7.3%)
OnCourt = Kawhi
On-Off = Kawhi
ORtg = Kawhi
DRtg = Kawhi
RAPTOR WAR = Kawhi
RAPTOR = Kawhi

RPG = PG, by 1.2 rebounds
TS% = PG, but both are stellar

So is this thread about who realgm thinks will win the MVP or who we think the NBA will award the MVP to?

I dunno.

[Genjuro]

I'm pretty amazed by how favourable the narrative is to Lebron James. It's not only ESPN, but SI had this article published yesterday: https://www.si.com/nba/2021/02/01/nba-mvp-race-lebron-james-joel-embiid-nikola-jokic

Most of them vote for Lebron, and those who don't, they imply they should've anyway (except the guy who votes for Kawhi, and still he compares him to Lebron, acknowledging who is the frontrunner).

Once the narrative is established, it's not so easy to let it go. It's early but this year he's not coming from behind in the race, so just stepping on the gas a little bit towards the end of the season could be enough.

I hope everybody gets a fair chance.