WISEMAN EXPECTATIONS: Year 1

[clyde21]

I'm very interested to see how we play the next couple weeks.. as much talent as Wiseman has, we havent ever had a big like him before, and he clearly disrupts the offense because of that. Could also be that we force him looks too, by design, but still I'm interested to see how we look using the old formula: a C that screens, fouls hard, and rebounds. So far the Looney starting experiment has shown me that we're more comfortable like that.

Just something to keep an eye on I guess

yea, but that's always been the case here in this offense, this offense needs a center that 1) can set picks/screens at a high level and 2) be a good inside-out passer...neither of these things Wiseman has ever excelled at which is why he was always a weird fit here...and will remain a weird fit in this system as long as the system doesn't change or he doesn't become that type of C.

[TB]

I think one other thing about the system is usage rate for center when Steph/Dray are on the court. They are VERY used to a center that doesn't really require the ball. Set screens, finish inside or keep the ball moving.

Here are the leading minute getters at center while steph/dray on court and their usage rates. With the Bogut/Zaza years, they easily led the centers minutes alongside those 2 high usage players, so I didn't add backups that mostly spent time with 2nd units or maybe one of steph or dray. I did add in centers for the 2 years where it was really split in minutes, and interestingly those are two years where one of the centers was very high usage (cousins and wiseman). In both years, the Looney net rating was higher than the more skilled high usage player.

highest minute center with steph/dray - Usage Rate
2014-15
Bogut - 13.2

2015-16
Bogut - 11.4

2016-17
Zaza - 15.3

2017-18
Zaza - 17

2018-19
Looney - 12.8
Cousins - 28.1

2020-21
Wiseman - 26.6
Looney - 8.1

[HiRez]

I think one other thing about the system is usage rate for center when Steph/Dray are on the court. They are VERY used to a center that doesn't really require the ball. Set screens, finish inside or keep the ball moving.

Here are the leading minute getters at center while steph/dray on court and their usage rates. With the Bogut/Zaza years, they easily led the centers minutes alongside those 2 high usage players, so I didn't add backups that mostly spent time with 2nd units or maybe one of steph or dray. I did add in centers for the 2 years where it was really split in minutes, and interestingly those are two years where one of the centers was very high usage (cousins and wiseman). In both years, the Looney net rating was higher than the more skilled high usage player.

highest minute center with steph/dray - Usage Rate
2014-15
Bogut - 13.2

2015-16
Bogut - 11.4

2016-17
Zaza - 15.3

2017-18
Zaza - 17

2018-19
Looney - 12.8
Cousins - 28.1

2020-21
Wiseman - 26.6
Looney - 8.1

Right but it could just be those players really sucked offensively, except Cousins, but then he was injured most of the time. In other words, can this team not function well with a medium-usage center, or have we just never had a center who was worth giving the ball to?

I think we need to find a balance for Wiseman, he should not be dominating the ball, but early signs are he's offensively more gifted than any center we've had in decades (given development time) and it would be a shame to waste that talent. My hope is he can be enough of a threat to collapse the defense on him inside, but learn to quickly get the ball back out to shooters when there is high traffic instead of forcing an awkward move and contested shots. So far I do think he's best when he touches the ball less: roll and dunk or lob and dunk. I kind of cringe when I see him iso and try any kind of move on a defender.

Ideally he'd probably be under 25% usage, but there's a lot of usage that can come out of Draymond's. Another factor is he does play with the bench a good bit as well and maybe Kerr just wants to get him the ball to get a handle on what his capabilities are and where the weaknesses are.

[tarantism]

Interesting - Smiley is listed as out due to injury tonight. He's definitely going to the bubble, but I wonder if its possible to keep him up until the 10th or maybe even a little after. We definitely need bodies.

Then again, maybe he isn't quite ready. Just because he's going to the bubble doesn't mean he is playing right away.

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[TB]

I think one other thing about the system is usage rate for center when Steph/Dray are on the court. They are VERY used to a center that doesn't really require the ball. Set screens, finish inside or keep the ball moving.

Here are the leading minute getters at center while steph/dray on court and their usage rates. With the Bogut/Zaza years, they easily led the centers minutes alongside those 2 high usage players, so I didn't add backups that mostly spent time with 2nd units or maybe one of steph or dray. I did add in centers for the 2 years where it was really split in minutes, and interestingly those are two years where one of the centers was very high usage (cousins and wiseman). In both years, the Looney net rating was higher than the more skilled high usage player.

highest minute center with steph/dray - Usage Rate
2014-15
Bogut - 13.2

2015-16
Bogut - 11.4

2016-17
Zaza - 15.3

2017-18
Zaza - 17

2018-19
Looney - 12.8
Cousins - 28.1

2020-21
Wiseman - 26.6
Looney - 8.1

Right but it could just be those players really sucked offensively, except Cousins, but then he was injured most of the time. In other words, can this team not function well with a medium-usage center, or have we just never had a center who was worth giving the ball to?

I think we need to find a balance for Wiseman, he should not be dominating the ball, but early signs are he's offensively more gifted than any center we've had in decades (given development time) and it would be a shame to waste that talent. My hope is he can be enough of a threat to collapse the defense on him inside, but learn to quickly get the ball back out to shooters when there is high traffic instead of forcing an awkward move and contested shots. So far I do think he's best when he touches the ball less: roll and dunk or lob and dunk. I kind of cringe when I see him iso and try any kind of move on a defender.

Ideally he'd probably be under 25% usage, but there's a lot of usage that can come out of Draymond's. Another factor is he does play with the bench a good bit as well and maybe Kerr just wants to get him the ball to get a handle on what his capabilities are and where the weaknesses are.

Yup, guys like Cousins and Wiseman should be higher usage players for them to succeed. And neither were/are at their peak alongside steph/dray (cousins injured and Wiseman obviously a rookie). We will absolutely need to find a balance with Wiseman as he develops; just thought it was interesting just how accustomed to low usage centers our current stars are.

[FNQ]

Yup, guys like Cousins and Wiseman should be higher usage players for them to succeed. And neither were/are at their peak alongside steph/dray (cousins injured and Wiseman obviously a rookie). We will absolutely need to find a balance with Wiseman as he develops; just thought it was interesting just how accustomed to low usage centers our current stars are.

And its key to recognize that because in order to evaluate going forward, its one of, if not THE, key consideration. Wiseman has to integrate himself into the Warriors offense - the Warriors offense should not be the one altering itself to cater to Wiseman. There's obviously some give and take there, but ultimately we have a system that has worked beautifully for 3 stars for the past 7+ years. If we can't find the right amount of Wiseman to use by seasons' end, it really accelerates the conversation of whether or not he's available in the offseason.

[tarantism]

Yup, guys like Cousins and Wiseman should be higher usage players for them to succeed. And neither were/are at their peak alongside steph/dray (cousins injured and Wiseman obviously a rookie). We will absolutely need to find a balance with Wiseman as he develops; just thought it was interesting just how accustomed to low usage centers our current stars are.

And its key to recognize that because in order to evaluate going forward, its one of, if not THE, key consideration. Wiseman has to integrate himself into the Warriors offense - the Warriors offense should not be the one altering itself to cater to Wiseman. There's obviously some give and take there, but ultimately we have a system that has worked beautifully for 3 stars for the past 7+ years. If we can't find the right amount of Wiseman to use by seasons' end, it really accelerates the conversation of whether or not he's available in the offseason.

So if Wiseman doesn't fit into the Zaza mold then we have to trade him?

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[clyde21]

I think one other thing about the system is usage rate for center when Steph/Dray are on the court. They are VERY used to a center that doesn't really require the ball. Set screens, finish inside or keep the ball moving.

Here are the leading minute getters at center while steph/dray on court and their usage rates. With the Bogut/Zaza years, they easily led the centers minutes alongside those 2 high usage players, so I didn't add backups that mostly spent time with 2nd units or maybe one of steph or dray. I did add in centers for the 2 years where it was really split in minutes, and interestingly those are two years where one of the centers was very high usage (cousins and wiseman). In both years, the Looney net rating was higher than the more skilled high usage player.

highest minute center with steph/dray - Usage Rate
2014-15
Bogut - 13.2

2015-16
Bogut - 11.4

2016-17
Zaza - 15.3

2017-18
Zaza - 17

2018-19
Looney - 12.8
Cousins - 28.1

2020-21
Wiseman - 26.6
Looney - 8.1

Right but it could just be those players really sucked offensively, except Cousins, but then he was injured most of the time. In other words, can this team not function well with a medium-usage center, or have we just never had a center who was worth giving the ball to?

I think we need to find a balance for Wiseman, he should not be dominating the ball, but early signs are he's offensively more gifted than any center we've had in decades (given development time) and it would be a shame to waste that talent. My hope is he can be enough of a threat to collapse the defense on him inside, but learn to quickly get the ball back out to shooters when there is high traffic instead of forcing an awkward move and contested shots. So far I do think he's best when he touches the ball less: roll and dunk or lob and dunk. I kind of cringe when I see him iso and try any kind of move on a defender.

Ideally he'd probably be under 25% usage, but there's a lot of usage that can come out of Draymond's. Another factor is he does play with the bench a good bit as well and maybe Kerr just wants to get him the ball to get a handle on what his capabilities are and where the weaknesses are.

Bogut didn't 'suck' offensively, Boges was one of the best passing Cs in the entire league, one of the best screen setting Cs in the entire league, he was the perfect type of C for our personnel and overarching offense

and TB is absolutely right...Wiseman is a C that needs plays drawn up specifically for him...THAT'S ALWAYS BEEN THE PROBLEM and that's why it's not an archetype that is valued greatly in today's NBA...you can't draw up plays specifically for a player in this offense, especially a C...offense has to come part of the ball and player movement more than anything else.

i don't want to pack on Wiseman, he does some nice things (even tho I think he's been massively overrated on this board and in general)...but you have to ask yourself a question of what you want out of your center and where does that leave the other players and overall scheme? there's a reason why we completely suck with Wiseman on the floor, and it's not just because he's a rookie, he's a rookie who happens to be a sub-optimal fit which compounds the issue.

honestly if we are trying to make the POs and Chriss didn't get hurt, I doubt he'd be getting any mins outside garbage time right now tbh.

[FNQ]

Yup, guys like Cousins and Wiseman should be higher usage players for them to succeed. And neither were/are at their peak alongside steph/dray (cousins injured and Wiseman obviously a rookie). We will absolutely need to find a balance with Wiseman as he develops; just thought it was interesting just how accustomed to low usage centers our current stars are.

And its key to recognize that because in order to evaluate going forward, its one of, if not THE, key consideration. Wiseman has to integrate himself into the Warriors offense - the Warriors offense should not be the one altering itself to cater to Wiseman. There's obviously some give and take there, but ultimately we have a system that has worked beautifully for 3 stars for the past 7+ years. If we can't find the right amount of Wiseman to use by seasons' end, it really accelerates the conversation of whether or not he's available in the offseason.

So if Wiseman doesn't fit into the Zaza mold then we have to trade him?

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That shouldn't be the takeaway. I dont know how to say it better than I did above

If we can't figure out a way to integrate Wiseman into the offense without it negatively impacting the team like it does now, then we should be looking for a way to find someone who fits better with our core 3. He's more talented than Zaza obviously, but if that talent doesnt push us towards winning, it would make more sense to apply his current value towards someone who does.

[FNQ]

and TB is absolutely right...Wiseman is a C that needs plays drawn up specifically for him...THAT'S ALWAYS BEEN THE PROBLEM and that's why it's not an archetype that is valued greatly in today's NBA...you can't draw up plays specifically for a player in this offense, especially a C...offense has to come part of the ball and player movement more than anything else.

The problem is that you really couldnt expect him to fit right in this quick either. So yes, he currently needs that, but is that a reflection of who he is, or a reflection of the situation (COVID/no preseason)? So that's why you give him a lot of run, that's why you wait until the end of the season... a full year should give you a decent idea of what the learning curve is looking like. So far he takes direction well and seems to have his ups and downs.. but if he starts playing like he did against the Spurs, even 1/3 of the time, that should be enough to keep him and build off of. If he can only jive with the starters once every couple weeks and there's no consistent improvement over the course of the season, then I'd definitely make him available in the offseason to see if a team can meet us at the apex of his trade value + giving someone to us that would fit our system better

[cpower]

I think one other thing about the system is usage rate for center when Steph/Dray are on the court. They are VERY used to a center that doesn't really require the ball. Set screens, finish inside or keep the ball moving.

Here are the leading minute getters at center while steph/dray on court and their usage rates. With the Bogut/Zaza years, they easily led the centers minutes alongside those 2 high usage players, so I didn't add backups that mostly spent time with 2nd units or maybe one of steph or dray. I did add in centers for the 2 years where it was really split in minutes, and interestingly those are two years where one of the centers was very high usage (cousins and wiseman). In both years, the Looney net rating was higher than the more skilled high usage player.

highest minute center with steph/dray - Usage Rate
2014-15
Bogut - 13.2

2015-16
Bogut - 11.4

2016-17
Zaza - 15.3

2017-18
Zaza - 17

2018-19
Looney - 12.8
Cousins - 28.1

2020-21
Wiseman - 26.6
Looney - 8.1

that is an amazing post TB. We have been so succesful offensively because of our smart usage of offense possessions. Curry/Klay/KD... we made sure ball always went to the best offensive player and that led to one of the best offenses ever seen. As long as Curry is in charge , Wiseman will need to bring down his usage and contribute in other aspects of the game. When Curry is on, Klay is on, the rest of the shooters are on.... No center in today's game will impact the offense like Curry, period. Not to blame on the rookie but his heavy usage is one of the two reasons (the other being Oubre) why our Ortg is so terrible this year, we cannot afford our center to be the focal point of offense.

[tarantism]

And its key to recognize that because in order to evaluate going forward, its one of, if not THE, key consideration. Wiseman has to integrate himself into the Warriors offense - the Warriors offense should not be the one altering itself to cater to Wiseman. There's obviously some give and take there, but ultimately we have a system that has worked beautifully for 3 stars for the past 7+ years. If we can't find the right amount of Wiseman to use by seasons' end, it really accelerates the conversation of whether or not he's available in the offseason.

So if Wiseman doesn't fit into the Zaza mold then we have to trade him?

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That shouldn't be the takeaway. I dont know how to say it better than I did above

If we can't figure out a way to integrate Wiseman into the offense without it negatively impacting the team like it does now, then we should be looking for a way to find someone who fits better with our core 3. He's more talented than Zaza obviously, but if that talent doesnt push us towards winning, it would make more sense to apply his current value towards someone who does.

Pulling the plug on a 19 year old #2 pick because he doesn't fit into our classic center role would be a dumb move. As Wiseman develops, the ways he can fit in and contribute will become naturally clear and evolve on their own. Depending on where his development goes, he could end up being an efficient high usage guy. We just don't know.

It seems like the only productive reason to push this narrative is working towards the "trade it all for (insert star here)" agenda. Otherwise its just pointless to talk about how Wiseman fits in now because he has barely touched his potential as an NBA player and if he works as hard as they say he does then he'll find ways to fit in and contribute.

Then again, I'm in the camp of letting Wiseman develop here. Obviously your angle is a little different.

[FNQ]

So if Wiseman doesn't fit into the Zaza mold then we have to trade him?

Sent from my LM-X220PM using RealGM mobile app

That shouldn't be the takeaway. I dont know how to say it better than I did above

If we can't figure out a way to integrate Wiseman into the offense without it negatively impacting the team like it does now, then we should be looking for a way to find someone who fits better with our core 3. He's more talented than Zaza obviously, but if that talent doesnt push us towards winning, it would make more sense to apply his current value towards someone who does.

Pulling the plug on a 19 year old #2 pick because he doesn't fit into our classic center role would be a dumb move. As Wiseman develops, the ways he can fit in and contribute will become naturally clear and evolve on their own. Depending on where his development goes, he could end up being an efficient high usage guy. We just don't know.

It seems like the only productive reason to push this narrative is working towards the "trade it all for (insert star here)" agenda. Otherwise its just pointless to talk about how Wiseman fits in now because he has barely touched his potential as an NBA player and if he works as hard as they say he does then he'll find ways to fit in and contribute.

Well since we're being candid, I think its pretty dumb to assume we have all the time in the world to wait

Response was so predictable though.. I'm definitely the one with the agenda, not the Wiseman superstar stans who are 100% against the idea of Wiseman being dealt because he, like every big ever drafted in the top 10, is going to super duper special. Same people would have been against trading Brandan Wright and Anthony Randolph no doubt

Some people are still in this 2007 mentality.. develop internally at all costs! When was the last time a team had a top 10 pick still on their rookie contract and won a title? 1999.. meanwhile the Lakers traded an actual star player at #2 to win a title.. the Raptors traded for a star to win a title.. the Cavs traded for a star to win a title.. we signed a star to win 2 titles.. the Heat signed 3 stars to win 2 titles.. the Lakers in the late 00s traded for a star to win 2 titles..

I'm actually looking at results and saying let's evaluate based on that, but even that's not good enough for the Wisestans.. have to be 100% committed to his development because that's the most important thing we have going! Don't talk about agendas with me, if Wiseman proves he can be a positive in some way, for sure, lets keep him. But if he's going to be a drag on our offense at the tail end of our stars' primes.. our stars deserve another chance at a couple rings after they dragged us from the gutter and made us an elite team

[clyde21]

So if Wiseman doesn't fit into the Zaza mold then we have to trade him?

Sent from my LM-X220PM using RealGM mobile app

That shouldn't be the takeaway. I dont know how to say it better than I did above

If we can't figure out a way to integrate Wiseman into the offense without it negatively impacting the team like it does now, then we should be looking for a way to find someone who fits better with our core 3. He's more talented than Zaza obviously, but if that talent doesnt push us towards winning, it would make more sense to apply his current value towards someone who does.

Pulling the plug on a 19 year old #2 pick because he doesn't fit into our classic center role would be a dumb move. As Wiseman develops, the ways he can fit in and contribute will become naturally clear and evolve on their own. Depending on where his development goes, he could end up being an efficient high usage guy. We just don't know.

It seems like the only productive reason to push this narrative is working towards the "trade it all for (insert star here)" agenda. Otherwise its just pointless to talk about how Wiseman fits in now because he has barely touched his potential as an NBA player and if he works as hard as they say he does then he'll find ways to fit in and contribute.

Then again, I'm in the camp of letting Wiseman develop here. Obviously your angle is a little different.

the problem is that a high usage C like Wiseman, who needs plays designed specifically for him, will come at the expense of our free flowing offense and other players...so yes, we can all see a path for Wiseman to average 20/10...but that won't do any good if it comes at the expense of everyone else and undermines our offense in the process.

this is, again, the inherent problem of taking a 'traditional' C that high and trying to fit him into a modern free flowing offense. that problem isn't gonna fix itself just by playing more minutes if Wiseman himself doesn't involve more into a modern C type. otherwise his best fit on the team is just as a 3rd big off the bench who can come in and roll and block some shots.

[tarantism]

That shouldn't be the takeaway. I dont know how to say it better than I did above

If we can't figure out a way to integrate Wiseman into the offense without it negatively impacting the team like it does now, then we should be looking for a way to find someone who fits better with our core 3. He's more talented than Zaza obviously, but if that talent doesnt push us towards winning, it would make more sense to apply his current value towards someone who does.

Pulling the plug on a 19 year old #2 pick because he doesn't fit into our classic center role would be a dumb move. As Wiseman develops, the ways he can fit in and contribute will become naturally clear and evolve on their own. Depending on where his development goes, he could end up being an efficient high usage guy. We just don't know.

It seems like the only productive reason to push this narrative is working towards the "trade it all for (insert star here)" agenda. Otherwise its just pointless to talk about how Wiseman fits in now because he has barely touched his potential as an NBA player and if he works as hard as they say he does then he'll find ways to fit in and contribute.

Well since we're being candid, I think its pretty dumb to assume we have all the time in the world to wait

Response was so predictable though.. I'm definitely the one with the agenda, not the Wiseman superstar stans who are 100% against the idea of Wiseman being dealt because he, like every big ever drafted in the top 10, is going to super duper special. Same people would have been against trading Brandan Wright and Anthony Randolph no doubt

Some people are still in this 2007 mentality.. develop internally at all costs! When was the last time a team had a top 10 pick still on their rookie contract and won a title? 1999.. meanwhile the Lakers traded an actual star player at #2 to win a title.. the Raptors traded for a star to win a title.. the Cavs traded for a star to win a title.. we signed a star to win 2 titles.. the Heat signed 3 stars to win 2 titles.. the Lakers in the late 00s traded for a star to win 2 titles..

I'm actually looking at results and saying let's evaluate based on that, but even that's not good enough for the Wisestans.. have to be 100% committed to his development because that's the most important thing we have going! Don't talk about agendas with me, if Wiseman proves he can be a positive in some way, for sure, lets keep him. But if he's going to be a drag on our offense at the tail end of our stars' primes.. our stars deserve another chance at a couple rings after they dragged us from the gutter and made us an elite team

Lol okay dude. I'm not a "Wiseman stan". But I don't agree that the end of an abridged rookie season is an adequate evaluation period to see if our 19 yo super raw center could be a building block going forward. I think if we pull the plug that quickly we have a decent shot of really regretting it.

Again, I'm not against trying for a star but I think we should keep the Minny pick or Wiseman as bridge players. Preferably Wiseman.

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[FNQ]

Lol okay dude. I'm not a "Wiseman stan". But I don't agree that the end of an abridged rookie season is an adequate evaluation period to see if our 19 yo super raw center could be a building block going forward. I think if we pull the plug that quickly we have a decent shot of really regretting it.

Again, I'm not against trying for a star but I think we should keep the Minny pick or Wiseman as bridge players. Preferably Wiseman.

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I'm not saying its without risk, I'm saying that we have stars who are sticking with the team, and its because they believe in our GM to build a winner around them.

And I think one year is absolutely enough time to evaluate a potential fit with the current roster.. either he starts understanding what we need from him and makes strides, or he doesn't, and we're left wondering in the offseason if he can ever fit with the stars

[SpreeS]

How many minutes could Looney play? 25? 30?

What in a week?

After this game, in a month:)

[clyde21]

Pulling the plug on a 19 year old #2 pick because he doesn't fit into our classic center role would be a dumb move. As Wiseman develops, the ways he can fit in and contribute will become naturally clear and evolve on their own. Depending on where his development goes, he could end up being an efficient high usage guy. We just don't know.

It seems like the only productive reason to push this narrative is working towards the "trade it all for (insert star here)" agenda. Otherwise its just pointless to talk about how Wiseman fits in now because he has barely touched his potential as an NBA player and if he works as hard as they say he does then he'll find ways to fit in and contribute.

Well since we're being candid, I think its pretty dumb to assume we have all the time in the world to wait

Response was so predictable though.. I'm definitely the one with the agenda, not the Wiseman superstar stans who are 100% against the idea of Wiseman being dealt because he, like every big ever drafted in the top 10, is going to super duper special. Same people would have been against trading Brandan Wright and Anthony Randolph no doubt

Some people are still in this 2007 mentality.. develop internally at all costs! When was the last time a team had a top 10 pick still on their rookie contract and won a title? 1999.. meanwhile the Lakers traded an actual star player at #2 to win a title.. the Raptors traded for a star to win a title.. the Cavs traded for a star to win a title.. we signed a star to win 2 titles.. the Heat signed 3 stars to win 2 titles.. the Lakers in the late 00s traded for a star to win 2 titles..

I'm actually looking at results and saying let's evaluate based on that, but even that's not good enough for the Wisestans.. have to be 100% committed to his development because that's the most important thing we have going! Don't talk about agendas with me, if Wiseman proves he can be a positive in some way, for sure, lets keep him. But if he's going to be a drag on our offense at the tail end of our stars' primes.. our stars deserve another chance at a couple rings after they dragged us from the gutter and made us an elite team

Lol okay dude. I'm not a "Wiseman stan". But I don't agree that the end of an abridged rookie season is an adequate evaluation period to see if our 19 yo super raw center could be a building block going forward. I think if we pull the plug that quickly we have a decent shot of really regretting it.

Again, I'm not against trying for a star but I think we should keep the Minny pick or Wiseman as bridge players. Preferably Wiseman.

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i'm not against finding and keep young studs as bridges to the next era after Steph/Klay/Dray, I've been vocal about grabbing a guy like Mobley or Suggs with the Minny pick for that reason, in fact if we land a guy like that on a rookie deal that'll be huge for the next 4-5 years...but that doesn't change the fact that that guy has to also fit the team's scheme, personnel and philosophy.

Wiseman is a nice talent, I don't think he'll be a great or anything but there's a path there for him to be a 20/10 guy in the league...problem is centers that can drop 20/10 on a given night are a dime a dozen in today's NBA, they key is finding a special C that can either be a an elite offensive guy like (Jokic) or an elite defensive guy like Gobert or a combo of both like an Embiid...what's Wiseman's path here? Do you see elite DPOY or elite offensive C that fits modern NBA offenses?

but again, that goes back to the problem of using the 2nd overall pick on a C like Wiseman on specifically a team like this, it never really made sense. having positionally locked players in today's NBA is more of a detriment than a plus unless they are REALLY special at what they do (Embiid/Gobert).

[clyde21]

also FNQ has a point, we have to weigh development of Wiseman with the window we have left with Steph/Klay, but the question here is...is his development gonna come at the expense of the other guys and offense because he's a higher usage C who needs to get fed, or his development gonna come within the offense we have?

i don't think we'll get the answer to this by the end of this season tbh, we'll see.

[lars_rosenberg]

I don't dislike Wiseman, he looks a good kid willing to improve and learn, but he wasn't the right pick.
We had the chance to pick LaMelo Ball, who is not only the player with the highest potential in the draft class, but also the one who is contributing more from day one. He's already the second best player in Charlotte behind Hayward and he could be the best by the end of the season. He's making huge progress.
We picked Wiseman because of fit instead of picking the best player available, which has always been a mistake, especially when you have a top 3 pick.
Also, LaMelo could be a very good fit for this team: sky high bbiq, great passer, great size. His size would allow Curry to play SG, with LaMelo having the Klay role on defense. LaMelo defense isn't as good as Klay of course, but he's showing potential there. We managed to turn Wiggins into a good defender, LaMelo would be easy. And his shot is not as bad as it looked in Australia. He's hitting threes off the dribble with the defenders in front of him. The percentages aren't great, but not so bad either given the degree of difficulty. He sure can hit open shots.
So sad Myers **** the bed once again in the draft. I really hope Wiseman becomes great, but it's clear it's gonna take years and this isn't good when you have an aging core.