Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread

[coldfish]

If you sign another piece before signing Lauri and Zach (re-signing your own players) , are you still limited by the cap?

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The salary cap is $109m. This is a soft cap that the Bulls can easily get over.
The luxury tax is $133m. This is a hard cap that Jerry will murder people before paying.

Functionally, the Bulls have to plan on keeping their salary below $133m.

Well if we are signing two max contracts then the hope is we are looking towards contention. If we are then jerry should ideally be willing to open the pockets for luxury tax...

Jerry kind of made it clear that he would pay the tax to keep a contender together, grudgingly, but wouldn't pay the tax to put one together. He was pretty specific. The team had to be a conference finalist before he would pay the tax. You have to build the team with that $133 hard cap and then hope it becomes a top 4 team.

[meekrab]

If you sign another piece before signing Lauri and Zach (re-signing your own players) , are you still limited by the cap?

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Lauri's cap hold counts as $20.2 million against the salary cap for next season before he signs and Otto is $33 million. The capulator is fun to play around with: http://www.shamsports.com/capulator

[GoBlue72391]

Offensively, Lauri reminds me of a premium, modern version of Luol Deng.

He's a better 3 point shooter on much higher volume, he's probably a better finisher, he's more athletic, and he's 7 feet tall, so his ceiling is much higher because of those things, but he lacks Deng's midrange game and modest shot creation abilities. They're both players who you're always wanting to play more aggressive, and who continuously tease with flashes of higher levels of play but struggle to do it consistently.

They both generate the majority of their points in similar ways: catch and shoot 3s, attacking closeouts, and cutting and moving off-ball. Lauri is more of a threat in transition, but Deng is a better playmaker.

Of course, they have absolutely nothing in common defensively and Deng is a better rebounder despite being several inches shorter, and Deng had a knack for hitting clutch buckets that Lauri hasn't shown yet.

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[sco]

Offensively, Lauri reminds me of a premium, modern version of Luol Deng.

He's a better 3 point shooter on much higher volume, he's probably a better finisher, he's more athletic, and he's 7 feet tall, so his ceiling is much higher because of those things, but he lacks Deng's midrange game and modest shot creation abilities. They're both players who you're always wanting to play more aggressive, and who continuously tease with flashes of higher levels of play but struggle to do it consistently.

They both generate the majority of their points in similar ways: catch and shoot 3s, attacking closeouts, and cutting and moving off-ball. Lauri is more of a threat in transition, but Deng is a better playmaker.

Of course, they have absolutely nothing in common defensively and Deng is a better rebounder despite being several inches shorter, and Deng had a knack for hitting clutch buckets that Lauri hasn't shown yet.

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I don't see it. IMO, Deng's prime was your prototypical good, medium usage 2-way (but without a 3) players. His gamelogs were a series of 5/13 nights with 7rb's and a steal.

[cjbulls]

Offensively, Lauri reminds me of a premium, modern version of Luol Deng.

He's a better 3 point shooter on much higher volume, he's probably a better finisher, he's more athletic, and he's 7 feet tall, so his ceiling is much higher because of those things, but he lacks Deng's midrange game and modest shot creation abilities. They're both players who you're always wanting to play more aggressive, and who continuously tease with flashes of higher levels of play but struggle to do it consistently.

They both generate the majority of their points in similar ways: catch and shoot 3s, attacking closeouts, and cutting and moving off-ball. Lauri is more of a threat in transition, but Deng is a better playmaker.

Of course, they have absolutely nothing in common defensively and Deng is a better rebounder despite being several inches shorter, and Deng had a knack for hitting clutch buckets that Lauri hasn't shown yet.

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I don't see it. IMO, Deng's prime was your prototypical good, medium usage 2-way (but without a 3) players. His gamelogs were a series of 5/13 nights with 7rb's and a steal.

Pat Williams is all set for the Deng role anyways

[sco]

Offensively, Lauri reminds me of a premium, modern version of Luol Deng.

He's a better 3 point shooter on much higher volume, he's probably a better finisher, he's more athletic, and he's 7 feet tall, so his ceiling is much higher because of those things, but he lacks Deng's midrange game and modest shot creation abilities. They're both players who you're always wanting to play more aggressive, and who continuously tease with flashes of higher levels of play but struggle to do it consistently.

They both generate the majority of their points in similar ways: catch and shoot 3s, attacking closeouts, and cutting and moving off-ball. Lauri is more of a threat in transition, but Deng is a better playmaker.

Of course, they have absolutely nothing in common defensively and Deng is a better rebounder despite being several inches shorter, and Deng had a knack for hitting clutch buckets that Lauri hasn't shown yet.

Sent from my SM-S115DL using RealGM mobile app

I don't see it. IMO, Deng's prime was your prototypical good, medium usage 2-way (but without a 3) players. His gamelogs were a series of 5/13 nights with 7rb's and a steal.

Pat Williams is all set for the Deng role anyways

Pat, yeah, I see that.

[Stratmaster]

I find it generally funny that Lauri and Lavine actually are playing off each other well this year but many fans try to turn it into a competition for shots.

Unfortunately, both of them have the same weakness, which is defense. That might limit how good a long term pairing can be. Both of them are at least trying this year though.

If both of them continue to play like this for the season, I wouldn't be against $25m for Lauri and an eventual max for Lavine if you can't trade for someone better.

So, the question begs, if you are paying $60m to Lauri and Lavine. Can you build a contender with $70m to stay under the tax barrier? IMO, it would be tight. You basically can't have any big contracts for non contributors.

If you sign another piece before signing Lauri and Zach (re-signing your own players) , are you still limited by the cap?

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

The salary cap is $109m. This is a soft cap that the Bulls can easily get over.
The luxury tax is $133m. This is a hard cap that Jerry will murder people before paying.

Functionally, the Bulls have to plan on keeping their salary below $133m.

Lol. I have read that somewhere about Jerry.

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[Stratmaster]

If you sign another piece before signing Lauri and Zach (re-signing your own players) , are you still limited by the cap?

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

Lauri's cap hold counts as $20.2 million against the salary cap for next season before he signs and Otto is $33 million. The capulator is fun to play around with: http://www.shamsports.com/capulator

Thanks!

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

[Red8911]

Offensively, Lauri reminds me of a premium, modern version of Luol Deng.

He's a better 3 point shooter on much higher volume, he's probably a better finisher, he's more athletic, and he's 7 feet tall, so his ceiling is much higher because of those things, but he lacks Deng's midrange game and modest shot creation abilities. They're both players who you're always wanting to play more aggressive, and who continuously tease with flashes of higher levels of play but struggle to do it consistently.

They both generate the majority of their points in similar ways: catch and shoot 3s, attacking closeouts, and cutting and moving off-ball. Lauri is more of a threat in transition, but Deng is a better playmaker.

Of course, they have absolutely nothing in common defensively and Deng is a better rebounder despite being several inches shorter, and Deng had a knack for hitting clutch buckets that Lauri hasn't shown yet.

Sent from my SM-S115DL using RealGM mobile app

I don't see it. IMO, Deng's prime was your prototypical good, medium usage 2-way (but without a 3) players. His gamelogs were a series of 5/13 nights with 7rb's and a steal.

Yeah Pat Williams is more of a Deng, not Lauri. Good defense with a mid range jumper, they are kind of similar.

[PaKii94]

If you sign another piece before signing Lauri and Zach (re-signing your own players) , are you still limited by the cap?

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

Lauri's cap hold counts as $20.2 million against the salary cap for next season before he signs and Otto is $33 million. The capulator is fun to play around with: http://www.shamsports.com/capulator

Thanks!

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

We'll have roughly 33 mil in capspace to work with if everyone's option was declined besides coby/wcj/Lauri. We could theoretically sign a max player outright, do a sign and trade for another max and then resign Lauri with bird rights. But then that locks you in as a team since Zach will be paid the year after with his bird rights.

[Jiipee84]

Great to see Lauri having back to back 30 point games.
But as Finnish NHL hockey legend and NHL hall of famer Teemu Selanne said once ''the development ends in satisfaction''.
Someone / someones can think what that slogan has to do with Lauri's game let me tell you.

Lauri shouldn't settle just 3 point shots and drive to the rim.
He should at least try to get even passable post game to make him more efficient scorer
also he should use his size to his advantage especially then when he's playing against smaller defender / defenders.

Whatever has caused those injuries and other health issues Lauri has had in his career so far he better figure them out.
And if he can keep improve himself as a player and progress every area including in defence and rebounding
then someday things can click and if all goes well then Bulls might have another allstar in Lauri someday.

But first he needs to find a way to stay healthy whole season without missing any games of injuries and other health issues.

[dougthonus]

Lauri's cap hold counts as $20.2 million against the salary cap for next season before he signs and Otto is $33 million. The capulator is fun to play around with: http://www.shamsports.com/capulator

Thanks!

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

We'll have roughly 33 mil in capspace to work with if everyone's option was declined besides coby/wcj/Lauri. We could theoretically sign a max player outright, do a sign and trade for another max and then resign Lauri with bird rights. But then that locks you in as a team since Zach will be paid the year after with his bird rights.

Depends a lot on what options you take. If you go true scorched Earth you can get to about 38M by waive/stretch Sato/Thad and trading your draft pick without getting salary back along with declining all options you have a choice on still.

You can't do a S&T in your scenario, S&T doesn't void your responsibility to make the trade work via cap, S&Ts don't generate additional cap room.

Not that it is relevant. It is highly unlikely there is a relevant FA to sign this year anyway, and if there were one, it is also highly unlikely he'd choose the Bulls. There certainly aren't going to be two such players.

[HomoSapien]

I’m happy for Lauri that he’s playing well, but the rest of his game shouldn’t be overlooked when discussing his next contract. Right now he’s posting career lows in rebounds, blocks, and assists. Those are important aspects that can’t just be ignored.

[WindyCityBorn]

I’m happy for Lauri that he’s playing well, but the rest of his game shouldn’t be overlooked when discussing his next contract. Right now he’s posting career lows in rebounds, blocks, and assists. Those are important aspects that can’t just be ignored.

Yeah averaging 6 rebound in 36 minutes is just awful for a PF. And his rim protection is non-existent. Offense looks really good, but overall production doesn’t.

[Cabbage bulls]

.

welcome back Eduardo. Try and keep this account. ~fleet

[DroseReturnChi]

I find it generally funny that Lauri and Lavine actually are playing off each other well this year but many fans try to turn it into a competition for shots.

Unfortunately, both of them have the same weakness, which is defense. That might limit how good a long term pairing can be. Both of them are at least trying this year though.

If both of them continue to play like this for the season, I wouldn't be against $25m for Lauri and an eventual max for Lavine if you can't trade for someone better.

So, the question begs, if you are paying $60m to Lauri and Lavine. Can you build a contender with $70m to stay under the tax barrier? IMO, it would be tight. You basically can't have any big contracts for non contributors.

Playing off well doesnt matter. Both used to be one dimensional and they still dont take pride in defense I find it discouraging lavine is lauri's running mate. Lauri's value comes from the amt of shots he takes but the Bulls are one of the worst environments for him with Lavine, White hijacking the offense and taking turns shooting. Its only natural to believe Lauri would be a top 20 player if they were replaced by Ball brothers. There were close to half the games Lauri shot 60% meaning he was the best player and if he was on another team, coaches would have wanted him to go for 50, 60 points.

Lauri is worth 30mil a yr but the funniest part is Bulls doesnt even have the infrastructure to let him succeed to become the man.
Also your ruining someone's lifetime career and earning. Let the man go to a championship contender like the Lakers where he can be the second coming of Dirk spoonfed by Bron. Let him go to a place where he can shut up all the haters because every time he has a poor performance I hear this passive, not creating crap when the lead guard is dog.

[DroseReturnChi]

Offensively, Lauri reminds me of a premium, modern version of Luol Deng.

No he is much closer to 7ft Klay, Dirk, KP hybrid. Shows nothing like Deng where he feasted inside and midrange while defense was his best weapon.

[ZOMG]

I’m happy for Lauri that he’s playing well, but the rest of his game shouldn’t be overlooked when discussing his next contract. Right now he’s posting career lows in rebounds, blocks, and assists. Those are important aspects that can’t just be ignored.

Disagree. This is a specialist's league, with a HUGE emphasis on scoring and mismatch potential. Lauri brings exactly that.

It makes no sense for JJ Reddick to try to improve his (nonexistent) ability to finish at the rack, because nobody's paying him to be a finisher. This is an extreme example, but you get the point. If/when Lauri gets the big contract offers, it'll be because of his scoring/shooting and being a mismatch threat.

Sure it doesn't hurt him to improve in other areas, but he'll quickly run into diminishing returns.

Blocking shots in particular is an interesting case - in this league, you're either an efficient rim protector... or you don't matter in that respect. Wendell Carter is averaging pretty much the same number of blocks as Lauri these days, but you don't really hear people ragging on him for it. The truth is that neither of them matters at all as a rim protector. That's a big *shrug* for most NBA teams. Blocking shots is a specialist skill.

Rebounding numbers contain so much static these days that they won't matter. Rebounding is affected by team wide strategy, as we're seeing in Lauri's case - some people box out, some go for the ball. But even considering that, Lauri's rebound numbers are well in line with other modern perimeter-centric PF's. And his assists have been discussed here - he plays inside a ball movement framework currently and his main job is to be the end point, a scorer. He's not a selfish black hole, which is the most important thing.

[WindyCityBorn]

Offensively, Lauri reminds me of a premium, modern version of Luol Deng.

He's a better 3 point shooter on much higher volume, he's probably a better finisher, he's more athletic, and he's 7 feet tall, so his ceiling is much higher because of those things, but he lacks Deng's midrange game and modest shot creation abilities. They're both players who you're always wanting to play more aggressive, and who continuously tease with flashes of higher levels of play but struggle to do it consistently.

They both generate the majority of their points in similar ways: catch and shoot 3s, attacking closeouts, and cutting and moving off-ball. Lauri is more of a threat in transition, but Deng is a better playmaker.

Of course, they have absolutely nothing in common defensively and Deng is a better rebounder despite being several inches shorter, and Deng had a knack for hitting clutch buckets that Lauri hasn't shown yet.

Sent from my SM-S115DL using RealGM mobile app

I don't see it. IMO, Deng's prime was your prototypical good, medium usage 2-way (but without a 3) players. His gamelogs were a series of 5/13 nights with 7rb's and a steal.

Pat Williams is all set for the Deng role anyways

Williams ceiling is way higher than Deng. He is going to much more than a glue guy. I could potentially see him being our best all-around player, but not scorer.

[WindyCityBorn]

I’m happy for Lauri that he’s playing well, but the rest of his game shouldn’t be overlooked when discussing his next contract. Right now he’s posting career lows in rebounds, blocks, and assists. Those are important aspects that can’t just be ignored.

Disagree. This is a specialist's league, with a HUGE emphasis on scoring and mismatch potential. Lauri brings exactly that.

It makes no sense for JJ Reddick to try to improve his (nonexistent) ability to finish at the rack, because nobody's paying him to be a finisher. This is an extreme example, but you get the point. If/when Lauri gets the big contract offers, it'll be because of his scoring/shooting and being a mismatch threat.

Sure it doesn't hurt him to improve in other areas, but he'll quickly run into diminishing returns.

Blocking shots in particular is an interesting case - in this league, you're either an efficient rim protector... or you don't matter in that respect. Wendell Carter is averaging pretty much the same number of blocks as Lauri these days, but you don't really hear people ragging on him for it. The truth is that neither of them matters at all as a rim protector. That's a big *shrug* for most NBA teams. Blocking shots is a specialist skill.

Rebounding numbers contain so much static these days that they won't matter. Rebounding is affected by team wide strategy, as we're seeing in Lauri's case - some people box out, some go for the ball. But even considering that, Lauri's rebound numbers are well in line with other modern perimeter-centric PF's. And his assists have been discussed here - he plays inside a ball movement framework currently and his main job is to be the end point, a scorer. He's not a selfish black hole, which is the most important thing.

I agree with you in general, but there is no excuse for his piss poor rebounding. He simply does not box out properly and chase loose balls. No modern star PFs are averaging 6 rebounds. He does try to block shots, but that is where those shorts arms come into play. Not much can be done about that so I don’t really that against him.