Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VII: Magic Expected To Retain Core

[VFX]

They need to move the vets. Period.

This team isn’t competing for anything and most of those contracts will be up before they hold any remaining value. This FO has ultimately failed, as I suspected they would.

This became obvious within the first two seasons of retaining and rolling out Hennigan’s core for offense, which was inherently flawed from the get go.

If they don’t move some players they pitchforks should be out. Using injuries isn’t really a valid excuse anymore when the offense hasn’t changed a shred.

[pepe1991]

Well it's obvious we need to trade Evan to return value, and at some point trade Gordon because he is devaluing asset that has turned into mediocre player that is complete no game changer.

Vuc can be traded, i don't care, i don't mind keeping him.

But we are going to "tank" by default ,because we have no talent. Last night we got runned over by VanVleet....
Our non existing PG and SF rotation will make sure we will never win any games.

There are, in this moment 15 nba teams with positive record. Magic played 22 games, yet somehow only 7 games with teams with positive record. Since we did not beat any, our actual record, with adjusted schedule to average strenght of schedule should have be around 5-17.

[zaymon]

Injuries are valid excuse i dont know how anyone can tell otherwise. There is no team that would withstand all the injuries we had while intergrating two rookies into rotation. Now we must patiently watch the disaster that is unfolding before us, select good talent in the lottery and come back stronger next year.

[j-ragg]

Yup it’s all cus of injuries, would’ve been contending by now if we had all our stars back.

[Skybox]

There's no reasonable debate that injuries didn't knock us completely out of relevance this year...take the opportunity to rebuild on the fly with the built in excuse...it can be a very productive year. Assess, adapt and make the best of the cards you're dealt. Trades were pondered, now is the time to dive in with very little risk. Clifford's doing what he should with what he has. FO has to do their thing if they want to steer the ship in a direction other than band-aid together a few wins...This would be a great time to bring in a new coach and make some trades towards some vision of what kind of team they want. Truly an "evaluation year" not like the fake one WeHam started with.

[Knightro]

Injuries are valid excuse i dont know how anyone can tell otherwise. There is no team that would withstand all the injuries we had while intergrating two rookies into rotation. Now we must patiently watch the disaster that is unfolding before us, select good talent in the lottery and come back stronger next year.

Of course injuries have hurt, but what was the upside if the Magic had stayed healthy?

A team 3-5 games under .500? 8th seed?

What's the point?

[VFX]

Injuries are valid excuse i dont know how anyone can tell otherwise. There is no team that would withstand all the injuries we had while intergrating two rookies into rotation. Now we must patiently watch the disaster that is unfolding before us, select good talent in the lottery and come back stronger next year.

2018-2019 was the best case scenario for this team. That roster had the healthiest season, more vets, and Vuc in a contract year.

This teams ceiling is a first round exit even when healthy. It’s time to move on.

[thelead]

I don't see anyone saying to trade the vets for trash so I'm not sure why anyone would absolutely want to stick with this group. We know what they're capable of. Let's shuffle the deck and try a new hand. If that hand is better, great for everyone. If that hand is worse, great for our draft position. I'm tired of this treadmill.

[zaymon]

Injuries are valid excuse i dont know how anyone can tell otherwise. There is no team that would withstand all the injuries we had while intergrating two rookies into rotation. Now we must patiently watch the disaster that is unfolding before us, select good talent in the lottery and come back stronger next year.

Of course injuries have hurt, but what was the upside if the Magic had stayed healthy?

A team 3-5 games under .500? 8th seed?

What's the point?

2018-2019 was the best case scenario for this team. That roster had the healthiest season, more vets, and Vuc in a contract year.

This teams ceiling is a first round exit even when healthy. It’s time to move on.

We obviously differ about our young core potential. In 2018 Isaac was raw sophomore playing after injury riddled rookie year, Vucevic was just scratching the surface as a 3 point shooter, Fournier was in a slump, we had no backup pg until MCW arrived, we forced Bamba into rotation and started carrier backup in Augustine. There was a lot of improvement left.
Last year we forced Fultz and Bamba into rotation, lost Isaac ( Vucevic and Dj for stretches), Gordon played even worse than usual and both Vucevic and Ross had shooting struggles.

I see our upside as top 4 team next year. We could be better than Pacers, Raptors, Celtics. It wont be easy but its not impossible IF:
-Isaac is dpoy
-Vucevic is allstar and best center shooter
-Okeke makes leap as a starter
-Fultz or Anthony emerges as solid point guard
-We trade AG and resign Fournier

I dont even count high lottery pick we can get this year.

[Skybox]

Injuries are valid excuse i dont know how anyone can tell otherwise. There is no team that would withstand all the injuries we had while intergrating two rookies into rotation. Now we must patiently watch the disaster that is unfolding before us, select good talent in the lottery and come back stronger next year.

Of course injuries have hurt, but what was the upside if the Magic had stayed healthy?

A team 3-5 games under .500? 8th seed?

What's the point?

2018-2019 was the best case scenario for this team. That roster had the healthiest season, more vets, and Vuc in a contract year.

This teams ceiling is a first round exit even when healthy. It’s time to move on.

We obviously differ about our young core potential. In 2018 Isaac was raw sophomore playing after injury riddled rookie year, Vucevic was just scratching the surface as a 3 point shooter, Fournier was in a slump, we had no backup pg until MCW arrived, we forced Bamba into rotation and started carrier backup in Augustine. There was a lot of improvement left.
Last year we forced Fultz and Bamba into rotation, lost Isaac ( Vucevic and Dj for stretches), Gordon played even worse than usual and both Vucevic and Ross had shooting struggles.

I see our upside as top 4 team next year. We could be better than Pacers, Raptors, Celtics. It wont be easy but its not impossible IF:
-Isaac is dpoy
-Vucevic is allstar and best center shooter
-Okeke makes leap as a starter
-Fultz or Anthony emerges as solid point guard
-We trade AG and resign Fournier

I dont even count high lottery pick we can get this year.

ABSOLUTELY...guys are forced into roles they're not equipped for or ready for yet and guys who shouldn't be the best guy on the floor for the Magic are often in that spot and opposing teams know it. I expect people from across the NBA to assume we'll just gift Vuc, plug in Bamba and move forward. But anyone who has watched knows that's not close to realistic...I can't think of a better complement to Vuc than Isaac at PF (and vice-versa). When/If Bamba develops into a 20+ minute defensive stalwart who can shoot 3's at high volume for 37%+, we'll have tough decisions. Look at all the late first round picks in the last couple of years...how can anyone say a couple of those will be a good trade for Vuc (while Bamba still in the womb)? Some trades change the course of a season...I think a Center-less semi-contender snatching Vuc suddenly becomes a real ring threat. I don't know why some are determined to scuttle this ship when we'll have an entirely different team next year-just based on injuries and draft picks alone...trade AG and Evan. Play Bamba. Play Okeke. Rest Vuc. Unload guys like Aminu, if it's not too expensive.

[pepe1991]

Injuries are valid excuse i dont know how anyone can tell otherwise. There is no team that would withstand all the injuries we had while intergrating two rookies into rotation. Now we must patiently watch the disaster that is unfolding before us, select good talent in the lottery and come back stronger next year.

Of course injuries have hurt, but what was the upside if the Magic had stayed healthy?

A team 3-5 games under .500? 8th seed?

What's the point?

2018-2019 was the best case scenario for this team. That roster had the healthiest season, more vets, and Vuc in a contract year.

This teams ceiling is a first round exit even when healthy. It’s time to move on.

We obviously differ about our young core potential. In 2018 Isaac was raw sophomore playing after injury riddled rookie year, Vucevic was just scratching the surface as a 3 point shooter, Fournier was in a slump, we had no backup pg until MCW arrived, we forced Bamba into rotation and started carrier backup in Augustine. There was a lot of improvement left.
Last year we forced Fultz and Bamba into rotation, lost Isaac ( Vucevic and Dj for stretches), Gordon played even worse than usual and both Vucevic and Ross had shooting struggles.

I see our upside as top 4 team next year. We could be better than Pacers, Raptors, Celtics. It wont be easy but its not impossible IF:
-Isaac is dpoy
-Vucevic is allstar and best center shooter
-Okeke makes leap as a starter
-Fultz or Anthony emerges as solid point guard
-We trade AG and resign Fournier

I dont even count high lottery pick we can get this year.

wtf?

Did you fall on head recently? Better than Celtics?
DPOY Isaac ? Dude, he just had 3rd straight left foot injury in 2 years, including 2 knee injuries. If we play 82 games season,at apsolute best he will log 55 games.

Even if you trade Gordon, Evan is gone, he pretty much said himself that he wants to play on contender, something Magic will never be with no starting SF whatsoever and with terrible PG rotation ( as usual ).

This team, in full health, at apsolute best, in 82 games, can win 46 games. And lose from 6th seed to Buck or 76ers or Nets.
There is no future here. Just bunch of ACL teared players and aiging vets that don't move needle on bigger scale.

it just appears to be "not so bad" from fan perspective .You said we would be bettter than Pacaers, but on paper Pacers have:
- allstar point guard
- allstar center
- DPOY center / PF
- army of assets to make a play for superstars


Even in your imaginary scenario what execlly team for next year has:
PG: post ACL tear point guard who isn't really lead guard and can't shoot to save his life / backup shooting guard too small to play SG
SG: Evan Fournier / Ross
SF: virtually nobody, or some scrappy crap that you got in your Gordon trade /
PF: post ACL tear Isaac, accident waiting to happend / post ACL Okeke, accident waiting to happen
C: 31 y.o. Vuc / Mo Bamba, as usual equipped to handle 8 min a game

Where is upside and future of that team ? First of all, writing this i figured that your imaginary team would not win 30 games, second, once again at least 2 playres would have been hurt for rest of a year at some point because whole roster is made of players with bummed knees.

[penny_nz]

Of course injuries have hurt, but what was the upside if the Magic had stayed healthy?

A team 3-5 games under .500? 8th seed?

What's the point?

2018-2019 was the best case scenario for this team. That roster had the healthiest season, more vets, and Vuc in a contract year.

This teams ceiling is a first round exit even when healthy. It’s time to move on.

We obviously differ about our young core potential. In 2018 Isaac was raw sophomore playing after injury riddled rookie year, Vucevic was just scratching the surface as a 3 point shooter, Fournier was in a slump, we had no backup pg until MCW arrived, we forced Bamba into rotation and started carrier backup in Augustine. There was a lot of improvement left.
Last year we forced Fultz and Bamba into rotation, lost Isaac ( Vucevic and Dj for stretches), Gordon played even worse than usual and both Vucevic and Ross had shooting struggles.

I see our upside as top 4 team next year. We could be better than Pacers, Raptors, Celtics. It wont be easy but its not impossible IF:
-Isaac is dpoy
-Vucevic is allstar and best center shooter
-Okeke makes leap as a starter
-Fultz or Anthony emerges as solid point guard
-We trade AG and resign Fournier

I dont even count high lottery pick we can get this year.

wtf?

Did you fall on head recently? Better than Celtics?
DPOY Isaac ? Dude, he just had 3rd straight left foot injury in 2 years, including 2 knee injuries. If we play 82 games season,at apsolute best he will log 55 games.

Even if you trade Gordon, Evan is gone, he pretty much said himself that he wants to play on contender, something Magic will never be with no starting SF whatsoever and with terrible PG rotation ( as usual ).

This team, in full health, at apsolute best, in 82 games, can win 46 games. And lose from 6th seed to Buck or 76ers or Nets.
There is no future here. Just bunch of ACL teared players and aiging vets that don't move needle on bigger scale.

it just appears to be "not so bad" from fan perspective .You said we would be bettter than Pacaers, but on paper Pacers have:
- allstar point guard
- allstar center
- DPOY center / PF
- army of assets to make a play for superstars


Even in your imaginary scenario what execlly team for next year has:
PG: post ACL tear point guard who isn't really lead guard and can't shoot to save his life / backup shooting guard too small to play SG
SG: Evan Fournier / Ross
SF: virtually nobody, or some scrappy crap that you got in your Gordon trade /
PF: post ACL tear Isaac, accident waiting to happend / post ACL Okeke, accident waiting to happen
C: 31 y.o. Vuc / Mo Bamba, as usual equipped to handle 8 min a game

Where is upside and future of that team ? First of all, writing this i figured that your imaginary team would not win 30 games, second, once again at least 2 playres would have been hurt for rest of a year at some point because whole roster is made of players with bummed knees.

I agree, the thought of running it back / re-upping to an Evan & Vuc powered offense is depressing. We KNOW where that leads, here!

I'm actually on the side of keeping Vuc, he's developed fantastically over the last few years, legit fringe All Star C and good pairing with JI. But the rest of the roster is so massively flawed, it will never be a contending team in the East.

[penny_nz]

Read on Twitter

Just saw this, knew Vuc was shooting well from the top of the key but that's some fine company

[CPBalla2003 n da 863]

Injuries are valid excuse i dont know how anyone can tell otherwise. There is no team that would withstand all the injuries we had while intergrating two rookies into rotation. Now we must patiently watch the disaster that is unfolding before us, select good talent in the lottery and come back stronger next year.

Of course injuries have hurt, but what was the upside if the Magic had stayed healthy?

A team 3-5 games under .500? 8th seed?

What's the point?

2018-2019 was the best case scenario for this team. That roster had the healthiest season, more vets, and Vuc in a contract year.

This teams ceiling is a first round exit even when healthy. It’s time to move on.

We obviously differ about our young core potential. In 2018 Isaac was raw sophomore playing after injury riddled rookie year, Vucevic was just scratching the surface as a 3 point shooter, Fournier was in a slump, we had no backup pg until MCW arrived, we forced Bamba into rotation and started carrier backup in Augustine. There was a lot of improvement left.
Last year we forced Fultz and Bamba into rotation, lost Isaac ( Vucevic and Dj for stretches), Gordon played even worse than usual and both Vucevic and Ross had shooting struggles.

I see our upside as top 4 team next year. We could be better than Pacers, Raptors, Celtics. It wont be easy but its not impossible IF:
-Isaac is dpoy
-Vucevic is allstar and best center shooter
-Okeke makes leap as a starter
-Fultz or Anthony emerges as solid point guard
-We trade AG and resign Fournier

I dont even count high lottery pick we can get this year.

Agreed... Magic started out 6-2 without Isaac and could have surprised some teams. It's not fair to say what could have happen because of all the injuries. I'm on board with trying to get something for AG/Evan... But they sure as hell better replicate the spacing that Evan provides. The way the season is going, it seems the team is going to be Lottery, so we'll get a chance to get a young stud... but even that isn't guaranteed. I been on "Keep Vooch" train for awhile... now that he's spreading the floor and could be entering his prime years... It'll be nice to see what a Vooch/Isaac/Fultz and Lotto can do going forward... depending on who they draft... Okeke should start to have him spread the floor with his shooting ability... two big men that can pick and pop is intriguing. Ross and Anthony coming off the bench is a nice offensive pop to have.

[Bensational]

Read on Twitter

Just saw this, knew Vuc was shooting well from the top of the key but that's some fine company

Context matters. Vuc is shooting almost all of his 3s completely wide open and undefended (4.3 attempts a game) because teams are willing to give him the shot instead of in the paint.

When Vuc is defended his %s are still as subpar as they’ve always been.

[MagicStarwipe]

I'm not married to anyone on this roster. That Includes Isaac. Change, change, change, for the love of puppies change something!

[drsd]

Yup it’s all cus of injuries, would’ve been contending by now if we had all our stars back.

The Magic is currently 1 1/2 games out of a play-in position. If healthy, this team was a probable 8-seed. If Vučević, Fournier and Ross all stay healthy and Aminu and Carter-Williams come back to their former-selves, this team could very well claw out a 10-seed.

So yes I agree fully with your points on veteran capacity.

If the Magic is going to tank, then resting Aminu and Carter-Williams is a start, but playing Anthony, Mason, Bacon, Okeke, and Bamba as major-minutes guys get the losses the pro-Tankers want. Orlando's youth is simply Not Good. Yes they have upside, but upside means to me "not good enough now".

[drsd]

Where is upside and future of that team ?

[basketballRob]

Yup it’s all cus of injuries, would’ve been contending by now if we had all our stars back.

The Magic is currently 1 1/2 games out of a play-in position. If healthy, this team was a probable 8-seed. If Vučević, Fournier and Ross all stay healthy and Aminu and Carter-Williams come back to their former-selves, this team could very well claw out a 10-seed.

So yes I agree fully with your points on veteran capacity.

If the Magic is going to tank, then resting Aminu and Carter-Williams is a start, but playing Anthony, Mason, Bacon, Okeke, and Bamba as major-minutes guys get the losses the pro-Tankers want. Orlando's youth is simply Not Good. Yes they have upside, but upside means to me "not good enough now".

Ross was really the reason we started out fast. If we just removed him from the lineup, we're a bottom 3 team.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

[drsd]

Ross was really the reason we started out fast. If we just removed him from the lineup, we're a bottom 3 team.

The Magic bench is bad and without Ross would be awful. But Carter-Williams and Aminu are both set to soon return. The pro-tankers are unlikely to be happy with an improved bench.

Moving forward, this is the February depth chart:
Anthony/Carter-Williams/Mason
Fournier/Ross/Mané
Ennis/Bacon
Aminu/Okeke/Clark
Vučević/Birch/Bamba

That roster might win ~45% of its remaining games (23-27) and make the play-in with a 31-41 final record.


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