Tank World Order

[720]

Tankers need to start their own forum.

We can't have them out there making the rest of real gm look like idiots.

Basketball_Jones was being sarcastic. We’re not the cream of the crop. We’re mediocre trash. Soon to be just trash.

There's mediocre trash in the playoffs every year - especially in the East.

Our guys are too competitive to tank a season. Deal with it.

Howard Stern fan?

[canz55]

Yes, it really hurt Durant, Westbrook and Harden’s growth when they came to a team that won 20 wins every year.

Good players along with good development develop.

It’s bad management and those same managements picking mediocre players causing the cycle of mediocrity.

I'd love for you to guarantee generationa level talent in next years draft.

Please go on record and tell us that Suggs, Kuminga and Mobley are the next Durant's and Westbrooks of the world (without watching them in the NCAA I might add).

[720]

Yes, it really hurt Durant, Westbrook and Harden’s growth when they came to a team that won 20 wins every year.

Good players along with good development develop.

It’s bad management and those same managements picking mediocre players causing the cycle of mediocrity.

I'd love for you to guarantee generationa level talent in next years draft.

Please go on record and tell us that Suggs, Kuminga and Mobley are the next Durant's and Westbrooks of the world (without watching them in the NCAA I might add).

It's better than not getting a chance at one at all.

[B-Ball Freak]

Gonna be difficult to finish bottom 5, theres way too many crappy teams...like real garbage teams.

[Steelo Green]

Yes, it really hurt Durant, Westbrook and Harden’s growth when they came to a team that won 20 wins every year.

Good players along with good development develop.

It’s bad management and those same managements picking mediocre players causing the cycle of mediocrity.

I'd love for you to guarantee generationa level talent in next years draft.

Please go on record and tell us that Suggs, Kuminga and Mobley are the next Durant's and Westbrooks of the world (without watching them in the NCAA I might add).

Not the point I was making.

The point I was making is players coming into losing cultures has some effect on their growth.

Good players usually are good players regardless, bad teams usually just draft really poorly in tandem with really bad development teams.

Go throughout history, plenty of great players have come onto very mediocre teams with little wins and end up becoming all-stars or superstars.

Sacramento being bad in all facets didn’t stop Demarcus from being great or Fox. They were just good players that they actually hit on in the draft.

Winning culture is overrated.

What did it do for the Hawks and ten years straight of the playoffs? Nothing.

They only got into the draft and drafted Trae and have a better outlook than they did the entire long playoff run.

[Inevitable]

I ran some numbers and expect us to lose majority of the games in this road trip if our opponents are healthy.

Raptors are 1-8 vs +.500 teams this year and have a losing record in the road

[Hero]

Is it considered tanking if a team finishes in the 9-11 range?

[Fairview4Life]

What did it do for the Hawks and ten years straight of the playoffs? Nothing.

They only got into the draft and drafted Trae and have a better outlook than they did the entire long playoff run.

They don't have a better outlook with Trae Young than they did when they won 60 games or whatever lol. Congrats on them being .500 again after 3 straight 20-30 win seasons though I guess. What a time to be Hawks fan.

[Geddy]

Is it considered tanking if a team finishes in the 9-11 range?

no

[canz55]

Yes, it really hurt Durant, Westbrook and Harden’s growth when they came to a team that won 20 wins every year.

Good players along with good development develop.

It’s bad management and those same managements picking mediocre players causing the cycle of mediocrity.

I'd love for you to guarantee generationa level talent in next years draft.

Please go on record and tell us that Suggs, Kuminga and Mobley are the next Durant's and Westbrooks of the world (without watching them in the NCAA I might add).

Not the point I was making.

The point I was making is players coming into losing cultures has some effect on their growth.

Good players usually are good players regardless, bad teams usually just draft really poorly in tandem with really bad development teams.

Go throughout history, plenty of great players have come onto very mediocre teams with little wins and end up becoming all-stars or superstars.

Sacramento being bad in all facets didn’t stop Demarcus from being great or Fox. They were just good players that they actually hit on in the draft.

Winning culture is overrated.

What did it do for the Hawks and ten years straight of the playoffs? Nothing.

They only got into the draft and drafted Trae and have a better outlook than they did the entire long playoff run.

The Philadelphia 76ers are in year 9 of their project (if we're counting from the date Sam Hinkie took over) - in the early period of that rebuild they were, year after year, one of the worst basketball clubs in NBA history. During that 5 year period, the losing was so bad that ownership lost sight of the project and mistakenly (in hindsight) terminated Sam Hinkie prematurely which lead to a misinformed evalution of Fultz by Colangelo among other misteps. You could argue that they prolonged the building campaign (assuming the end goal is a championship) by acting out of emotion, or a misperception of the project maybe; ultimately they're a relevant club in the NBA now to some extent but in the same breath they paid a heavy price.

What I'm trying to point out here is: you and I are just everyday fans talking on a message board; meaning, our attachment to the Raptors (and likely any professional sports entertainment organization for that matter) begins and ends on a weekday evening when the first whistle blows and when it ends. We are not responsible for anything that relates to the health of the organization whether it be a responsiblity to parent companies that answer to shareholders, employees, or advertisers etc. So while we can have intellectual excercises about the benefits of tanking or whatever, we're not the ones who have to deal with any form of pressure on any level. I'm sure that 76er ownership and executive management were feeling a degree of pressure that very few of us can relate to at that level of business, especially in year 2016-17 when the club finished at near bottom of the league for the 4th year in a row.

I've followed this thread carefully for that last several weeks and while I agree with the logical arguments being presented by the TwO; they offer zero sophistication or complexity in their arguments with regards to the downside of tanking and how risky it can be if not done correctly.

Yes; no one wants to miss out on talent but lets not pretend there isn't a price to pay.

[Johnny Bball]

They don't have a better outlook with Trae Young than they did when they won 60 games or whatever lol. Congrats on them being .500 again after 3 straight 20-30 win seasons though I guess. What a time to be Hawks fan.

It should only take one year to suck and bounce right back to 60.

[Son Goku 25]

Trae young is overrated. Yeah, I said it. NBA is trying too hard to manufacture a homeless version of Curry when he retires.

[720]

They don't have a better outlook with Trae Young than they did when they won 60 games or whatever lol. Congrats on them being .500 again after 3 straight 20-30 win seasons though I guess. What a time to be Hawks fan.

It should only take one year to suck and bounce right back to 60.

It's been awhile but I remember reading about how most contenders, like actual championship caliber teams make a 20 plus win jump. Usually from 30-40 something wins one season to 50-60 something wins the next.

[Steelo Green]

What did it do for the Hawks and ten years straight of the playoffs? Nothing.

They only got into the draft and drafted Trae and have a better outlook than they did the entire long playoff run.

They don't have a better outlook with Trae Young than they did when they won 60 games or whatever lol. Congrats on them being .500 again after 3 straight 20-30 win seasons though I guess. What a time to be Hawks fan.

Outlook means future.

The Hawks have a better outlook than they ever did with a true superstar talent, something they never had for a decade.

The 60 win team was a fake contender. Trae could lead this team to true heights if he continues to grow.

[Son Goku 25]

What did it do for the Hawks and ten years straight of the playoffs? Nothing.

They only got into the draft and drafted Trae and have a better outlook than they did the entire long playoff run.

They don't have a better outlook with Trae Young than they did when they won 60 games or whatever lol. Congrats on them being .500 again after 3 straight 20-30 win seasons though I guess. What a time to be Hawks fan.

Outlook means future.

The Hawks have a better outlook than they ever did with a true superstar talent, something they never had for a decade.

The 60 win team was a fake contender. Trae could lead this team to true heights if he continues to grow.

Which is the interesting part to me. Trae imo is overrated but are the hawks better off with him? 100%. I can sit here talking about who's overrated and who's not but at the end of the day, Trae may be selling tickets and a marketing hit for the league in hopes of replacing Curry. NBA is a business so the raptors still need a marketable star or more on their team, especially being north of the border and consistently overlooked.

[720]

Trae overrated and the Hawks **** ed up by not drafting Doncic. It was obvious even back then.

[Inevitable]

Hawks made a really good pick in DeAndre Hunter. Very similar stats to Kawhi year 3. This draft has a bunch of prospects like him and you can nab them outside the top 3.

[Basketball_Jones]

Gonna be difficult to finish bottom 5, theres way too many crappy teams...like real garbage teams.

Yeah tanking is really hard when you have a legit star. Look at the Bosh years, I don't think they were ever bad enough unless Bosh never played, and that guy was too damn durable for that to happen. I can see us nose diving a bit without Kyle, as Fred and Siakam offense is too up and down they won't have a stabilizing force like Kyle to support them. But OG and Norm are hitting their consistency right now so it may be too difficult to tank.

[720]

We're literally at the position we are in because of Lowry and Norm. Two guys that PROBABLY won't be here next season.

[Basketball_Jones]

Yes, it really hurt Durant, Westbrook and Harden’s growth when they came to a team that won 20 wins every year.

Good players along with good development develop.

It’s bad management and those same managements picking mediocre players causing the cycle of mediocrity.

I'd love for you to guarantee generationa level talent in next years draft.

Please go on record and tell us that Suggs, Kuminga and Mobley are the next Durant's and Westbrooks of the world (without watching them in the NCAA I might add).

Maybe not the next Durants, but they probably have a better outlook then the Raptors future right now. Will this team make it out of the first round even the next 3 years? Looking doubtful.