Trade Talk (Part Five)

[Jedzz]

Getting nothing but Knox and Robinson and then a bunch of draft picks for those two? Troubling to me. Who running this team knows how to draft?

We are not trading Towns right now. Just not happening. But I don’t see a deal better than Wiseman, our pick back, and all of Golden States picks and pick swaps they could offer over the next seven years.

Wiseman alone is better than Robinson/Knox plus we’d be getting our pick back.

But I repeat, if a Towns trade is made at some point, it cannot be Rosas making that move. It needs to be new owner/GM, assuming team is eventually sold.

I don't agree about the Wiseman and Warriors trade at all. No thanks. We don't want their exta players. We definately don't want pick swaps with a team always in the late playoffs/finals which they will be if you give them Towns. There is probably 10-15 better directions to go.

[Jedzz]

Getting nothing but Knox and Robinson and then a bunch of draft picks for those two? Troubling to me. Who running this team knows how to draft?

I would consider the 35 mil in cap space a bonus as well.

I agree with you though, the problem is does that change where we are now?

We aren't finding a single player to come here if there isn't already some players here of high level. No, rookies don't count. So I'm not a fan of searching out 35 mil in cap space. They can always trade players to make room for a high priced player if they get he chance at one.

The only problem with right now is keeping Towns on the court. Hopefully that corrects itself soon. But they can also help that by stopping any more senseless tanking, get everyone locked in and fighting for wins. Stop chasing draft picks. If someone like Knox is your taraget individually, suggest a different smaller trade just for him is my thoughts.

[Wolveswin]

As for this Towns to the Warriors nonsense, the Knicks (for example only) could offer Robinson and their next 4 consecutive 1rst round picks (due to picks acquired from Dallas), plus other players and 2nds. The 2022 draft scare is ridiculous as there is no promise we would be in the top two or three next year either.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y582zv9r

That unloads Kat and DLo, gives us approximately 35 million in expirings, 4 1rst, some 2nds, a center in Robinson who can rebound and block shots.

Rubio, JMac, Smith Jr (exp)
Beasley, Ntilikina (exp), Culver, Nowell
Edwards, Knox, Okoge, Bullock(exp), Layman
Randle(exp), McDaniels, Vanderbilt, Juancho
Robinson, Reid

Cut or buy out the ones you can, or reroute to a 3rd team for another big or 2nd rounders.

Without making other trades we go into the offseason with 35 mil in caproom, 9 1rst round picks in next 4 years, multiple 2nds and this roster

Rubio, JMac
Beasley, Culver
Edwards, Knox, Okoge, Layman
McDaniels, Vanderbilt, Juancho
Robinson, Reid

If we luck out, that could be Suggs, Mobley, or Cunningham with them and maybe even more.

The Knicks can’t offer their next 4 picks.
2021 either Knicks or Mavs 1st (both unprotected)
2022 Knicks 1st (because they kept 1 in 2021)
2023 Can only offer swap because Dallas 1st protected. But Wolves could get best two 1sts of own, Knicks, Mavs if conveyed, Knicks keep 1.
2024 Knicks 1st (because they got 1 in 2023)

[Dewey]

This is gonna go 1 of 2 ways...

1. We put together a successful 50-game campaign to finish out the 2021 season, or...
2. KAT requests to be moved and we are forced to retool.

At some point - we need to determine whether we can play winning basketball with a full roster
--> Chemistry ... will evolve through game 72
--> Team leader ... this is on the players.
--> Team identity ... this is on the F.O./Coaches.

IMO a successful 50-game campaign (playoffs or not) must demonstrate clear & consise level of accomplishment. We're in a deep hole and virtually counted out, but making a run may finally show the grit and leadership the franchise needs. Been a while.

We are 5-20 ( ) ... if we go 30-22 from here and end up 35-37 ... is that respectable? I'd say it would be, but each their own...

[Wolveswin]

This is gonna go 1 of 2 ways...

1. We put together a successful 50-game campaign to finish out the 2021 season, or...
2. KAT requests to be moved and we are forced to retool.

At some point - we need to determine whether we can play winning basketball with a full roster
--> Chemistry ... will evolve through game 72
--> Team leader ... this is on the players.
--> Team identity ... this is on the F.O./Coaches.

IMO a successful 50-game campaign (playoffs or not) must demonstrate clear & consise level of accomplishment. We're in a deep hole and virtually counted out, but making a run may finally show the grit and leadership the franchise needs. Been a while.

We are 5-20 ( ) ... if we go 30-22 from here and end up 35-37 ... is that respectable? I'd say it would be, but each their own...

30-22...yes that is respectable but will be damn near impossible.

Can anyone other than the fanatics of fans looking through the rosiest of rose colored glasses think Wolves can hit a switch and go 30-22?

I think tempered expectations are gift Warriors 6-8 overall 1st. And hope Towns wants to stay.

Best case Wolves get lucky and keep their top 3 1st and Towns stays happy.

Worst case Wolves gift Warriors #4 and Towns demands out.

[Norseman79]

Getting nothing but Knox and Robinson and then a bunch of draft picks for those two? Troubling to me. Who running this team knows how to draft?

I would consider the 35 mil in cap space a bonus as well.

I agree with you though, the problem is does that change where we are now?

We aren't finding a single player to come here if there isn't already some players here of high level. No, rookies don't count. So I'm not a fan of searching out 35 mil in cap space. They can always trade players to make room for a high priced player if they get he chance at one.

The only problem with right now is keeping Towns on the court. Hopefully that corrects itself soon. But they can also help that by stopping any more senseless tanking, get everyone locked in and fighting for wins. Stop chasing draft picks. If someone like Knox is your taraget individually, suggest a different smaller trade just for him is my thoughts.

I only use Knox as a salary match in trades. I like Robinson and 4-5 1rsts. That being said, you are spot on about who is picking them, and more importantly who is coaching them.

There are very few players in the league I would trade Kat for, Jaylen Brown is one, but with our glut of wings and such, it's kind of foolish.

[Note30]

As for this Towns to the Warriors nonsense, the Knicks (for example only) could offer Robinson and their next 4 consecutive 1rst round picks (due to picks acquired from Dallas), plus other players and 2nds. The 2022 draft scare is ridiculous as there is no promise we would be in the top two or three next year either.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y582zv9r

That unloads Kat and DLo, gives us approximately 35 million in expirings, 4 1rst, some 2nds, a center in Robinson who can rebound and block shots.

Rubio, JMac, Smith Jr (exp)
Beasley, Ntilikina (exp), Culver, Nowell
Edwards, Knox, Okoge, Bullock(exp), Layman
Randle(exp), McDaniels, Vanderbilt, Juancho
Robinson, Reid

Cut or buy out the ones you can, or reroute to a 3rd team for another big or 2nd rounders.

Without making other trades we go into the offseason with 35 mil in caproom, 9 1rst round picks in next 4 years, multiple 2nds and this roster

Rubio, JMac
Beasley, Culver
Edwards, Knox, Okoge, Layman
McDaniels, Vanderbilt, Juancho
Robinson, Reid

If we luck out, that could be Suggs, Mobley, or Cunningham with them and maybe even more.

Rosas gets fired right after he hangs up the phone

They def need to give up Barrett and Toppin as well. And future pick swaps.

[Jedzz]

I think tempered expectations are gift Warriors 6-8 overall 1st. And hope Towns wants to stay.

Best case Wolves get lucky and keep their top 3 1st and Towns stays happy.

Worst case Wolves gift Warriors #4 and Towns demands out.

ignore status, locked in Mr. Warriors fan! All you can do is keep posting about this pick that is already traded. Trying to claim how important it is. (to trade to get it back) "Gift" a 6-8 pick? "Worst case gift #4" to them? None of it matters to this team. Towns doesn't want yet another top rookie in yet another draft to babysit. Stop your fear mongering about this stupid pick that is already gone.

It doesn't matter what pick they get from it. That doesn't concern the Wolves or impact the Wolves.

[Note30]

The best trade is with Warriors. Sadly.

Wiseman
Oubre Jr.
Paschall
2021 Wolves 1st
2021 Warriors 1st (21-30 protected)
2026 Warriors 1st
2022&2023 Warriors 1st Swap

But I would look for a third team who may offer a bad contract + asset for expiring Oubre, maybe Paschall, plus Hernangomez and/or Beasley.

If you guys move Towns, I'd be calling up NOP, OKC, maybe ATL, and probably HOU. Towns is the kind of young star you unload the war chest for.

NOP can offer up a very large portion of the LAL and MIL pick packages they own and toss in a few prospects. Maybe JJ (sent to 3rd team), Hayes, Ball, and one of Hart or NAW if you want plus 21 LAL 1st, 21 NOP 1st, 24 LAL 1st, 24 NOP/MIL 1st (best of), 25 MIL 1st, 26 NOP/MIL 1st (best of), 27 MIL 1st, and maybe you get another 1st or some swaps added if OKC can boost the bidding up. Gives you a couple picks in this fairly strong draft, a couple years to tank and get top talent, and then a bunch of picks at a time you hope you are getting better and LAL/MIL is getting bad.

NOP still has quite a few 2nds, their own 1sts in 22, 23, 25, and 27, plus a swap option in 23 with LAL to use to try and solidify their backcourt though they could be a draw in FA with Ingram/Zion/KAT in the starting lineup. I guess they could also push for Russell to be included in the deal.

Sorry, but yuck.

I would take Wiseman over Hayes like 10 out of 10 times. About to be paid Ball has almost no value, and their fringe prospects don’t excite anyone.

Your trade is a PERFECT example of quantity vs. quality. Everyone of those Lakers and Bucks 1sts are going to be late to VERY late 1sts.

OKC is similar. They have a ton of 1sts, but not many (if any) quality.

Plus in any non Warriors scenario, Wolves still give the best 1st out there to Warriors — their own 2021 #4 or gulp, 2022 unprotected after trading Towns.

If the Thunder offered every pick they owned plus Shai I'd trade Towns. When I mean every, I mean EVERY. All 18 1st picks plus Shai and they have to take DLo as well.

I'd take that deal over whatever the Warriors could offer us.

With 25 picks in the next five years we better be able to draft someone good to go with an Edwards, Shai pairing.

[Jedzz]

I propose they trade the entire Timberwolves franchise for the Aqua Caliente.

[Macwolf527]

This is gonna go 1 of 2 ways...

1. We put together a successful 50-game campaign to finish out the 2021 season, or...
2. KAT requests to be moved and we are forced to retool.

At some point - we need to determine whether we can play winning basketball with a full roster
--> Chemistry ... will evolve through game 72
--> Team leader ... this is on the players.
--> Team identity ... this is on the F.O./Coaches.

IMO a successful 50-game campaign (playoffs or not) must demonstrate clear & consise level of accomplishment. We're in a deep hole and virtually counted out, but making a run may finally show the grit and leadership the franchise needs. Been a while.

We are 5-20 ( ) ... if we go 30-22 from here and end up 35-37 ... is that respectable? I'd say it would be, but each their own...

I’d say 26-26 is respectable with the remaining 52 games. Towns only played 35 games last season and 30 of those games were with players that did not fit the system. Towns for a full season with the new players, would have probably netted us a mid to low lottery pick instead in the 2020 draft. In my opinion, Edwards as the 1st pick, was a gift. Factor in McDaniels and the development he’s getting right now and we pretty much doubled down for 2020 1st rd draft picks (Bolmaro is still a mystery, but I like him too). As far as I’m concerned, Edwards is our 2021 first round pick because we should have never been in that spot to begin with. I’m not sweating the 2021 draft pick to Golden State. No one beyond the top five of that draft blows me away anyway, and the pick to GS is top 3 protected. I guarantee we’ll move beyond the top 5 with a healthy Towns the rest of the year. We need veterans on this team, not more rookies.

Now, it’s really about development for our younger players. I know it’s tough as Wolves fans to endure the losses, but fast-forward to the 2021-22 season with a healthy Towns (physically and emotionally) and players like Naz, Edwards, Vanderbilt, Nowell and McDaniels having received valuable minutes this year and things should be much brighter. I’m all for the young guys getting the chance to develop. A bottom playoff spot and a quick first round sweep does not excite me at all. I’d rather shoot for a top 5 playoff spot in 21-22 with a chance to advance, which is reasonable with our young guys getting valuable opportunities to play this season and the off-season to develop. I also trust Rosas to make moves that will add veteran help. The losses are tough, but I like what I’m seeing from a few of our young guys.

[Wolveswin]

That Knicks offer above isn’t happening. Thibs isn’t paying premium for Towns.

Here is a real traditional star trade scenario — with Bulls. They are in the East, have pieces needed, and if trending up at trade deadline, a fit with Towns. Notice no Russell — no reason to torpedo Towns’ value with Russell unless taking back equally bad contract as Russell — find a trade later for him.

Bulls:
Williams
White
WCJ
OPJ (expiring - possible to 3rd team)
2021, 2023, 2025 1st
2022, 2024 1st Swap Rights

FOR

Wolves:
Towns + Rubio + Layman + Hernangomez

Back to the not involving Warriors as third team and not getting Wolves owed 1st back. Do Wolves take such an offer and really start a rebuild without their 1st?

[Norseman79]

That Knicks offer above isn’t happening. Thibs isn’t paying premium for Towns.

Here is a real traditional star trade scenario — with Bulls. They are in the East, have pieces needed, and if trending up at trade deadline, a fit with Towns. Notice no Russell — no reason to torpedo Towns’ value with Russell unless taking back equally bad contract as Russell — find a trade later for him.

Bulls:
Williams
White
WCJ
OPJ (expiring - possible to 3rd team)
2021, 2023, 2025 1st
2022, 2024 1st Swap Rights

FOR

Wolves:
Towns + Rubio + Layman + Hernangomez

Back to the not involving Warriors as third team and not getting Wolves owed 1st back. Do Wolves take such an offer and really start a rebuild without their 1st?

Meh...the draft picks are on the right track, though I want 2nds as well, however, no interest in the players they are sending back. The Knicks trade I mentioned up top was literally a "something like this" type of trade, not something I thought would happen. I will stand by not trading Towns until after this season, once lotto is set and we know if we have our pick or not.

I just wouldn't trade Towns to the Western Conference. I would also prefer to trade him to a team that is a perennial loser, as it usually takes a year or two to turn stuff around. Ideally, you unload DLo at the same time

[Wolveswin]

That Knicks offer above isn’t happening. Thibs isn’t paying premium for Towns.

Here is a real traditional star trade scenario — with Bulls. They are in the East, have pieces needed, and if trending up at trade deadline, a fit with Towns. Notice no Russell — no reason to torpedo Towns’ value with Russell unless taking back equally bad contract as Russell — find a trade later for him.

Bulls:
Williams
White
WCJ
OPJ (expiring - possible to 3rd team)
2021, 2023, 2025 1st
2022, 2024 1st Swap Rights

FOR

Wolves:
Towns + Rubio + Layman + Hernangomez

Back to the not involving Warriors as third team and not getting Wolves owed 1st back. Do Wolves take such an offer and really start a rebuild without their 1st?

Meh...the draft picks are on the right track, though I want 2nds as well, however, no interest in the players they are sending back. The Knicks trade I mentioned up top was literally a "something like this" type of trade, not something I thought would happen. I will stand by not trading Towns until after this season, once lotto is set and we know if we have our pick or not.

I just wouldn't trade Towns to the Western Conference. I would also prefer to trade him to a team that is a perennial loser, as it usually takes a year or two to turn stuff around. Ideally, you unload DLo at the same time

Well I guess we will have to agree we see different versions of any Towns trade.

Note:
1. I don’t see a perennial loser making an offer for Towns. If he gets traded, it will be a team seeing Towns as piece that puts them over the top.
2. Late 1sts and seconds are no concern to me. Trading Towns scenario, focus is center plate. Not side dishes and desert. They can garnish the dish, but not until main dish is satisfactory.
3. Russell will and should only be included with Towns if other team has equally or near equal negative value player to exchange. Trading Towns needs to reward highest quality value package and Wolves should not let Russell poison the well.

Important: Wolves only have a 40% chance of keeping their top 3 protected 2021 1st if they are a bottom 3 team. And worse odds yet if outside bottom 3.

[Godaddycurse]

Out of curiousity, how much is Reid worth to you guys? Curious if you would consider moving him to address other needs (SF/PF) on the roster.

[Tpups21]

Call me crazy, but I’d listen to offers for Towns at the deadline. It’s probably the only way to move Russell.

[theGreatRC]

Out of curiousity, how much is Reid worth to you guys? Curious if you would consider moving him to address other needs (SF/PF) on the roster.

He's a keeper for sure, especially on his contract.

Undrafted gem by Rosas, he really worked on his body this summer and looks so active.

We can't move him because our C depth is so bad, especially with KAT being in/out of the lineup

[Wolveswin]

Here is an interesting one for those who like quantity 1sts when trading Towns. Rockets.

They have a large negative contract in Wall, so Russell can be swapped. They are owed a ton of 1sts. They are playing well and just outside of playoffs and Towns — paired with Wood — might just be star trade Rockets would want for playoff push. And they owe own future 1sts to OKC, getting a proven-young-locked-in-star has to be appealing.

Wolves:
Towns + Russell + Layman
FOR

Wall
Tucker (expiring, 3rd team?)
Exum (expiring)
2021 Rockets 1st (some swaps owed, right now #13)
2021 Blazers 1st (lotto protected, right now #20)
2021 Pistons 1st (lotto protected, most likely 2025+)
2022 Nets 1st (unprotected)
2022 Bucks 1st (unprotected)
2022 Rockets 1st Swap (Wolves get best 3 of own, Rockets, Bucks, Nets...Rockets get worst)
2023 Wizards 1st (lotto protected)
2023 Rockets and Nets 1st Swap
2024 Nets 1st (unprotected)
2025 Rockets and Nets 1st Swap (protected)
2026 Nets 1st (unprotected)
2027 Nets 1st Swap (unprotected)

Has to be some combination in there that gets Wolves to say yes to sending them Towns.

Towns
Wood
House
Dipo
Russell
Gordon (6th)

[Jedzz]

Now, it’s really about development for our younger players. I know it’s tough as Wolves fans to endure the losses, but fast-forward to the 2021-22 season with a healthy Towns (physically and emotionally) and players like Naz, Edwards, Vanderbilt, Nowell and McDaniels having received valuable minutes this year and things should be much brighter.

I’m all for the young guys getting the chance to develop. A bottom playoff spot and a quick first round sweep does not excite me at all. I’d rather shoot for a top 5 playoff spot in 21-22 with a chance to advance, which is reasonable with our young guys getting valuable opportunities to play this season and the off-season to develop. I also trust Rosas to make moves that will add veteran help. The losses are tough, but I like what I’m seeing from a few of our young guys.

I disagree that playing to lose and doing nothing more then drop minutes on young players and sit all vet plans is going to teach them how to be a team capable of top 5 playoff spot in 21-22. Not a chance besides dumb luck.

They can play the roster for wins now, which includes playing the young players the right way where they wisely fit individually. The ones ready for more play more, those not ready for it play less, but still play. This team, after all, doesn't have 5 bonafied proven starters. Which also means they don't have 5 locked in bench players either. There is room to play plenty of these players during the season. I'm not advocating sitting young players for just any vets favor at all. There are some Vets that need to take second or DNP roles at this point. But the point is to put your absolute best foot forward and go for wins and teach this team how to be winners. They have to learn that first long before they are leaping all the way up to top 5 team in 2021. Best get started doing things right/better, right now if that's you goal for timing.

You play it as if trying to win with this group. That tells you what you may still be missing. Make your trades and try to adjust that to get further.

[Norseman79]

Now, it’s really about development for our younger players. I know it’s tough as Wolves fans to endure the losses, but fast-forward to the 2021-22 season with a healthy Towns (physically and emotionally) and players like Naz, Edwards, Vanderbilt, Nowell and McDaniels having received valuable minutes this year and things should be much brighter.

I’m all for the young guys getting the chance to develop. A bottom playoff spot and a quick first round sweep does not excite me at all. I’d rather shoot for a top 5 playoff spot in 21-22 with a chance to advance, which is reasonable with our young guys getting valuable opportunities to play this season and the off-season to develop. I also trust Rosas to make moves that will add veteran help. The losses are tough, but I like what I’m seeing from a few of our young guys.

I disagree that playing to lose and doing nothing more then drop minutes on young players and sit all vet plans is going to teach them how to be a team capable of top 5 playoff spot in 21-22. Not a chance besides dumb luck.

They can play the roster for wins now, which includes playing the young players the right way where they wisely fit individually. The ones ready for more play more, those not ready for it play less, but still play. This team, after all, doesn't have 5 bonafied proven starters. Which also means they don't have 5 locked in bench players either. There is room to play plenty of these players during the season. I'm not advocating sitting young players for just any vets favor at all. There are some Vets that need to take second or DNP roles at this point. But the point is to put your absolute best foot forward and go for wins and teach this team how to be winners. They have to learn that first long before they are leaping all the way up to top 5 team in 2021. Best get started doing things right/better, right now if that's you goal for timing.

You play it as if trying to win with this group. That tells you what you may still be missing. Make your trades and try to adjust that to get further.

Well said and I agree, but, that also means actually developing them, not ruining their development by watching DLo play 1 on 5.

I believe I read that Ant didn't have one shot attempt in the 4th, hell I don't even know if he touched the ball but to toss it back to DLo.

The coaches can't be this stupid. I just can't see what we are missing. If you are going to tank just DNP DLo because of thigh bruise and let the rest actually play basketball.