Aleksej Pokusevski

[UcanUwill]

Does he belong? I dont remember if I watched a full OKC game, but from what all I have seen and heard, he looks like he doesnt belong at all. Does he belong more than someone like Martynas Andriuskevcius belonged, because I saw Poku as similar case, not even close to PRO level eager to join NBA team as soon as possible. Honestly I pictured Poku only in G league, its a big surprise he gets NBA minutes, its interesting, is that plan better for development, him being completely overwhelmed with the talent of competition, where in G league, I dont picture him as star, but as passable player who could grow into that G league star and later NBA player. If he has talent, because just like Andriuskevicius, he might be just completely overhyped Euro who proved nothing besides being tall even at junior competitions.

[Mirotic12]

He is not 4-5 years away lol, he is having a tough time to contribute on offense with his shooting not translating and the wildness (fun) of his game, and that was predictable but he has looked like he belongs in several areas and the dude is the youngest player in the league with 0 pro experience

He is still a good prospect and good gamble

I didn't say he was 4-5 years away. I said very clearly he is at least 4-5 years away (maybe more) from being physically developed. I don't see how anyone could even argue that.

[Mirotic12]

Does he belong? I dont remember if I watched a full OKC game, but from what all I have seen and heard, he looks like he doesnt belong at all. Does he belong more than someone like Martynas Andriuskevcius belonged, because I saw Poku as similar case, not even close to PRO level eager to join NBA team as soon as possible. Honestly I pictured Poku only in G league, its a big surprise he gets NBA minutes, its interesting, is that plan better for development, him being completely overwhelmed with the talent of competition, where in G league, I dont picture him as star, but as passable player who could grow into that G league star and later NBA player. If he has talent, because just like Andriuskevicius, he might be just completely overhyped Euro who proved nothing besides being tall even at junior competitions.

I don't remember Andriuskevicius ever being good at any level. Even once he was fully developed from a physical standpoint, he was a scrub in every team he played on in Europe. If I remember correctly, he also had a lot of injury issues.

I really don't see those as comparable situations. I think it's more similar to recent Euro 7 footers like Bender and Papagiannis, that came to the NBA way too early, being completely non developed from a physical standpoint.

Bender is the bad case scenario. Both Bender and Papagiannis are now 23 - Papagiannis is one of the best centers in Europe, and Bender is a borderline scrub on Maccabi.

I guess you could also use Vesely as a comparison, although I don't think that's a realistic comp, because Vesely has almost no offensive skills and he's a one of a kind freak athlete. So he's a much different type of player. But at least in terms of physically and age wise, it is similar, with Poku and Vesely both being very skinny 7 footers that came to the NBA too early, before being physically developed.

[UcanUwill]

Does he belong? I dont remember if I watched a full OKC game, but from what all I have seen and heard, he looks like he doesnt belong at all. Does he belong more than someone like Martynas Andriuskevcius belonged, because I saw Poku as similar case, not even close to PRO level eager to join NBA team as soon as possible. Honestly I pictured Poku only in G league, its a big surprise he gets NBA minutes, its interesting, is that plan better for development, him being completely overwhelmed with the talent of competition, where in G league, I dont picture him as star, but as passable player who could grow into that G league star and later NBA player. If he has talent, because just like Andriuskevicius, he might be just completely overhyped Euro who proved nothing besides being tall even at junior competitions.

I don't remember Andriuskevicius ever being good at any level. Even once he was fully developed from a physical standpoint, he was a scrub in every team he played on in Europe. If I remember correctly, he also had a lot of injury issues.

I really don't see those as comparable situations. I think it's more similar to recent Euro 7 footers like Bender and Papagiannis, that came to the NBA way too early, being completely non developed from a physical standpoint.

Bender is the bad case scenario. Both Bender and Papagiannis are now 23 - Papagiannis is one of the best centers in Europe, and Bender is a borderline scrub on Maccabi.

I guess you could also use Vesely as a comparison, although I don't think that's a realistic comp, because Vesely has almost no offensive skills and he's a one of a kind freak athlete. So he's a much different type of player. But at least in terms of physically and age wise, it is similar, with Poku and Vesely both being very skinny 7 footers that came to the NBA too early, before being physically developed.

Papagianis, and Vesely were way better than Pokusevski tho, even Dragan Bender was probably better. I compared him to Andriuskevicius, because just like Poku, guy wasn't ready whatsoever even at euro level, yet he had hype for some reason. It was one of those rare instances where draft boards got it wrong tho, Andriuskevicius was projected to go in the loterry, but he dropped to second round, but my point, Andriuskevicius and Pokusevski are completely nobodies on European map who are hyped to be NBA players all on potential and NOTHING else, nothing substantial in their actual game at a time they arrived in the league. I garantee most Euroleague fans had no clue who ANdriuskecius was in 2004, just like no one outside draft junkies knew who Pokusevski was this past year. You can talk about Vesely, Vesely was one of the best Partizan players and one of the most exiting Euroleague players at age 19. There is no comparison.

[No-Man]

"for some reason" lol, have you seen him play at all?

That comp makes 0 sense, Andriuskevicius never had talent he was just tall

A ton of people knew who Pokusevski was man, wat are we even talking about here

The comp for Poku's draft process is Giannis

[Mirotic12]

Papagianis, and Vesely were way better than Pokusevski tho, even Dragan Bender was probably better. I compared him to Andriuskevicius, because just like Poku, guy wasn't ready whatsoever even at euro level, yet he had hype for some reason. It was one of those rare instances where draft boards got it wrong tho, Andriuskevicius was projected to go in the loterry, but he dropped to second round, but my point, Andriuskevicius and Pokusevski are completely nobodies on European map who are hyped to be NBA players all on potential and NOTHING else, nothing substantial in their actual game at a time they arrived in the league. I garantee most Euroleague fans had no clue who ANdriuskecius was in 2004, just like no one outside draft junkies knew who Pokusevski was this past year. You can talk about Vesely, Vesely was one of the best Partizan players and one of the most exiting Euroleague players at age 19. There is no comparison.

I wasn't comparing them in terms of being ready to play, or the level they were at in Europe on their clubs before being drafted. I was talking solely about their physical development and how ready they were to handle physical contact. That was all I was talking about, in response to the posts wondering why Poku doesn't shoot free throws, and avoids contact.

For example, Vesely was a rotation player in EuroLeague before he came to the NBA, and Poku was a rotation player in Greek 2nd division. Of course there is no comparison in those terms. I simply meant in terms of being physically ready and being able to handle contact a big man would need to deal with.

Vesely was playing small forward in Partizan. Not because he had any skills of a small forward whatsoever, but because he was physically too weak to play as a center, or even a power forward at the time in EuroLeague. Of course, as soon as he developed physically, he has spent his entire playing time as a center since then.

That's all I was talking about, not the overall club level or readiness of the players.

[Mirotic12]

"for some reason" lol, have you seen him play at all?

That comp makes 0 sense, Andriuskevicius never had talent he was just tall

A ton of people knew who Pokusevski was man, wat are we even talking about here

The comp for Poku's draft process is Giannis

Not really. He was barely even talked about as a prospect in Europe, until maybe a year ago. Even then, he wasn't talked about hardly at all.

I remember in those EuroLeague junior tournaments and the junior FIBA tournaments that he got no more than a casual mention as an intriguing prospect with potential. In Europe, I don't think he was in the top 5 most discussed players at his age group, at any time.

[peZt]

"for some reason" lol, have you seen him play at all?

That comp makes 0 sense, Andriuskevicius never had talent he was just tall

A ton of people knew who Pokusevski was man, wat are we even talking about here

The comp for Poku's draft process is Giannis

Come on, the kid got on the radar in 2019. He had a terrific u18 but who follows the u18? Only draft junkies, which is exactly what Ucanwill said. Before the draft process and hype began, he definitely was not a known player to a "ton of people". Unless you define those who watch the U18's as a ton of people. He was getting 20 minutes in the second greek division, that's not someone who is a known entity in Europe.
Ucanwill is right. He is one of those guys who never played a significant role in the pro leagues but got hyped and drafted based on one or two good youth tournaments. These types of player rarely pan out, because guess what, dominating 16 year old kids isn't all that indicative of someone's NBA potential. Especially if that someone isn't even getting minutes in Europe.

[Stillwater]

If you expected instant gratification when you're taking any hybrid out of his skill set in the name of development through stinking it up prepare for displeasure

[No-Man]

"for some reason" lol, have you seen him play at all?

That comp makes 0 sense, Andriuskevicius never had talent he was just tall

A ton of people knew who Pokusevski was man, wat are we even talking about here

The comp for Poku's draft process is Giannis

Come on, the kid got on the radar in 2019. He had a terrific u18 but who follows the u18? Only draft junkies, which is exactly what Ucanwill said. Before the draft process and hype began, he definitely was not a known player to a "ton of people". Unless you define those who watch the U18's as a ton of people. He was getting 20 minutes in the second greek division, that's not someone who is a known entity in Europe.
Ucanwill is right. He is one of those guys who never played a significant role in the pro leagues but got hyped and drafted based on one or two good youth tournaments. These types of player rarely pan out, because guess what, dominating 16 year old kids isn't all that indicative of someone's NBA potential. Especially if that someone isn't even getting minutes in Europe.

he got hyped up because his tools are absurd

and yeah, he was def discussed as a top5 player in his gen, and was well known among people that follow the Draft

[ThunderBolt]

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[Nazrmohamed]

He is not 4-5 years away lol, he is having a tough time to contribute on offense with his shooting not translating and the wildness (fun) of his game, and that was predictable but he has looked like he belongs in several areas and the dude is the youngest player in the league with 0 pro experience

He is still a good prospect and good gamble

I didn't say he was 4-5 years away. I said very clearly he is at least 4-5 years away (maybe more) from being physically developed. I don't see how anyone could even argue that.

How do you know how long it takes to be physically developed. Im not saying I know the answer better than you but I do tend to believe fans under project the rate at which players get stronger, bigger, skinnier. I watched Kevin Love leave UCLA looking like a tub and then getting himself in great shape by draft night only to then see him transform further under Lebron. Ive seen skinny guys get much stronger in the league.

Now if a guy is lazy then he's lazy and I can't help you there. But if you wanna work you can easily transform your body in 2 offseasons safely. Some players transform themselves in 15mos.

[NO-KG-AI]

Has an NBA level talent ever gotten off to such a poor start offensively and amounted to anything? He's pretty unique and is intriguing down the line, but 24% shooting overall and 18% from 3, 0 free throws attempted in his first 300 minutes makes Ben Wallace look like an offensive superstar. He's rocking a PER of 2.5, a TS% of 30%, a 61 offensive rating, and a -7.5 OBPM.

Edit: Ben Wallace as a rookie in just under 200 minutes had a PER of 6, .347% TS%, and a -7.6 OBPM. So there is that I guess, lol.

[nolang1]

Has an NBA level talent ever gotten off to such a poor start offensively and amounted to anything? He's pretty unique and is intriguing down the line, but 24% shooting overall and 18% from 3, 0 free throws attempted in his first 300 minutes makes Ben Wallace look like an offensive superstar. He's rocking a PER of 2.5, a TS% of 30%, a 61 offensive rating, and a -7.5 OBPM.

Edit: Ben Wallace as a rookie in just under 200 minutes had a PER of 6, .347% TS%, and a -7.6 OBPM. So there is that I guess, lol.

I remember a lot of these kinds of posts with Fultz too. For starters, teenage rookies tend to put up much better numbers at the end of the season between their own improvement and getting to play teams that are tanking or resting, so I'm certain you'd find plenty more who were worse over their first X games than from looking at full seasons - people just weren't overanalyzing that kind of thing until the last few years.

Then a lack of shotmaking is a lot more glaring to the average person than actually having the biggest negative effect on a team's offense. Pokusevski has a small role on offense and is mostly spacing the floor (and actually doing so, it's not some Ben Simmons deal where his man is an extra helper in the paint). I'm sure he looks better by on-off stuff than pure box score estimates when something like a .000 FTR is so extreme, but saying he made Wallace look like an offensive superstar before seeing that Wallace actually came out even worse by something like BPM is a good example of that kind of thinking. If you're limited offensively, there are much worse things you can do than be a low-usage player with the majority of your shot attempts coming from three, so I definitely wouldn't be surprised if quite a few players had worse 15 game offensive stretches to start their careers. And of course even that is a mostly worthless discussion when you're not grading on the curve of being the youngest player in the league as opposed to like 22.

[NO-KG-AI]

Has an NBA level talent ever gotten off to such a poor start offensively and amounted to anything? He's pretty unique and is intriguing down the line, but 24% shooting overall and 18% from 3, 0 free throws attempted in his first 300 minutes makes Ben Wallace look like an offensive superstar. He's rocking a PER of 2.5, a TS% of 30%, a 61 offensive rating, and a -7.5 OBPM.

Edit: Ben Wallace as a rookie in just under 200 minutes had a PER of 6, .347% TS%, and a -7.6 OBPM. So there is that I guess, lol.

I remember a lot of these kinds of posts with Fultz too. For starters, teenage rookies tend to put up much better numbers at the end of the season between their own improvement and getting to play teams that are tanking or resting, so I'm certain you'd find plenty more who were worse over their first X games than from looking at full seasons - people just weren't overanalyzing that kind of thing until the last few years.

Then a lack of shotmaking is a lot more glaring to the average person than actually having the biggest negative effect on a team's offense. Pokusevski has a small role on offense and is mostly spacing the floor (and actually doing so, it's not some Ben Simmons deal where his man is an extra helper in the paint). I'm sure he looks better by on-off stuff than pure box score estimates when something like a .000 FTR is so extreme, but saying he made Wallace look like an offensive superstar before seeing that Wallace actually came out even worse by something like BPM is a good example of that kind of thinking. If you're limited offensively, there are much worse things you can do than be a low-usage player with the majority of your shot attempts coming from three, so I definitely wouldn't be surprised if quite a few players had worse 15 game offensive stretches to start their careers. And of course even that is a mostly worthless discussion when you're not grading on the curve of being the youngest player in the league as opposed to like 22.

I meant that he made prime Ben Wallace look like a superstar on offense, but still.

Fultz was still a crappy scorer when he webt down, he just didn’t completely scrub out of the league, which isn’t saying much at all. Even then, his limited time as a rookie wasn’t as woeful as Poku has been on that end.

[nolang1]

Has an NBA level talent ever gotten off to such a poor start offensively and amounted to anything? He's pretty unique and is intriguing down the line, but 24% shooting overall and 18% from 3, 0 free throws attempted in his first 300 minutes makes Ben Wallace look like an offensive superstar. He's rocking a PER of 2.5, a TS% of 30%, a 61 offensive rating, and a -7.5 OBPM.

Edit: Ben Wallace as a rookie in just under 200 minutes had a PER of 6, .347% TS%, and a -7.6 OBPM. So there is that I guess, lol.

I remember a lot of these kinds of posts with Fultz too. For starters, teenage rookies tend to put up much better numbers at the end of the season between their own improvement and getting to play teams that are tanking or resting, so I'm certain you'd find plenty more who were worse over their first X games than from looking at full seasons - people just weren't overanalyzing that kind of thing until the last few years.

Then a lack of shotmaking is a lot more glaring to the average person than actually having the biggest negative effect on a team's offense. Pokusevski has a small role on offense and is mostly spacing the floor (and actually doing so, it's not some Ben Simmons deal where his man is an extra helper in the paint). I'm sure he looks better by on-off stuff than pure box score estimates when something like a .000 FTR is so extreme, but saying he made Wallace look like an offensive superstar before seeing that Wallace actually came out even worse by something like BPM is a good example of that kind of thinking. If you're limited offensively, there are much worse things you can do than be a low-usage player with the majority of your shot attempts coming from three, so I definitely wouldn't be surprised if quite a few players had worse 15 game offensive stretches to start their careers. And of course even that is a mostly worthless discussion when you're not grading on the curve of being the youngest player in the league as opposed to like 22.

I meant that he made prime Ben Wallace look like a superstar on offense, but still.

Fultz was still a crappy scorer when he webt down, he just didn’t completely scrub out of the league, which isn’t saying much at all. Even then, his limited time as a rookie wasn’t as woeful as Poku has been on that end.

Maybe I have missed some real stinkers from him or something, but in general he just looks like a shooting guard going through a shooting slump rather than some horrendously lost player the defense just completely leaves. Players who shoot mostly threes naturally have the highest variance in their statistical output, and I remember in the last season Klay played he was like the worst player in the league by BPM a couple weeks in because he was sub 20 percent from three while shooting a high volume.

Poku shoots 5 times a game, and about 3 of them are threes late in the shot clock where the average shooter is shooting maybe 30%; the weirdness of a 7 footer not being able to go inside or get to the line outweighs how bad that is. Like I said, this isn’t a turnover machine or a guy who defenses are just leaving to make his teammates go 4-on-5: as Marcus Smart has repeatedly shown, if you display a willingness to shoot threes you can still space even if you’re shooting badly. I just don’t get the hand-wringing about ‘can a player like this ever amount to anything’ when changing nothing but being a still-bad 30% three-point shooter would make him a break-even player with his defense.

[Ruzious]

Papagianis, and Vesely were way better than Pokusevski tho, even Dragan Bender was probably better. I compared him to Andriuskevicius, because just like Poku, guy wasn't ready whatsoever even at euro level, yet he had hype for some reason. It was one of those rare instances where draft boards got it wrong tho, Andriuskevicius was projected to go in the loterry, but he dropped to second round, but my point, Andriuskevicius and Pokusevski are completely nobodies on European map who are hyped to be NBA players all on potential and NOTHING else, nothing substantial in their actual game at a time they arrived in the league. I garantee most Euroleague fans had no clue who ANdriuskecius was in 2004, just like no one outside draft junkies knew who Pokusevski was this past year. You can talk about Vesely, Vesely was one of the best Partizan players and one of the most exiting Euroleague players at age 19. There is no comparison.

I wasn't comparing them in terms of being ready to play, or the level they were at in Europe on their clubs before being drafted. I was talking solely about their physical development and how ready they were to handle physical contact. That was all I was talking about, in response to the posts wondering why Poku doesn't shoot free throws, and avoids contact.

For example, Vesely was a rotation player in EuroLeague before he came to the NBA, and Poku was a rotation player in Greek 2nd division. Of course there is no comparison in those terms. I simply meant in terms of being physically ready and being able to handle contact a big man would need to deal with.

Vesely was playing small forward in Partizan. Not because he had any skills of a small forward whatsoever, but because he was physically too weak to play as a center, or even a power forward at the time in EuroLeague. Of course, as soon as he developed physically, he has spent his entire playing time as a center since then.

That's all I was talking about, not the overall club level or readiness of the players.

I never understood the fascination with Vesely. Former Terp James Gist was his teammate in Europe and was a better player - certainly a lot tougher - and he didn't even sniff the NBA. Vesely was too soft for the NBA, showed poor hands when playing inside even in Europe, and was far too inconsistent as a shooter. Poku has far more potential than Vesely ever had, but he's a project and obviously needs time to develop. Nothing he's done so far should be much of a surprise to anyone.

[UcanUwill]

Papagianis, and Vesely were way better than Pokusevski tho, even Dragan Bender was probably better. I compared him to Andriuskevicius, because just like Poku, guy wasn't ready whatsoever even at euro level, yet he had hype for some reason. It was one of those rare instances where draft boards got it wrong tho, Andriuskevicius was projected to go in the loterry, but he dropped to second round, but my point, Andriuskevicius and Pokusevski are completely nobodies on European map who are hyped to be NBA players all on potential and NOTHING else, nothing substantial in their actual game at a time they arrived in the league. I garantee most Euroleague fans had no clue who ANdriuskecius was in 2004, just like no one outside draft junkies knew who Pokusevski was this past year. You can talk about Vesely, Vesely was one of the best Partizan players and one of the most exiting Euroleague players at age 19. There is no comparison.

I wasn't comparing them in terms of being ready to play, or the level they were at in Europe on their clubs before being drafted. I was talking solely about their physical development and how ready they were to handle physical contact. That was all I was talking about, in response to the posts wondering why Poku doesn't shoot free throws, and avoids contact.

For example, Vesely was a rotation player in EuroLeague before he came to the NBA, and Poku was a rotation player in Greek 2nd division. Of course there is no comparison in those terms. I simply meant in terms of being physically ready and being able to handle contact a big man would need to deal with.

Vesely was playing small forward in Partizan. Not because he had any skills of a small forward whatsoever, but because he was physically too weak to play as a center, or even a power forward at the time in EuroLeague. Of course, as soon as he developed physically, he has spent his entire playing time as a center since then.

That's all I was talking about, not the overall club level or readiness of the players.

I never understood the fascination with Vesely. Former Terp James Gist was his teammate in Europe and was a better player - certainly a lot tougher - and he didn't even sniff the NBA. Vesely was too soft for the NBA, showed poor hands when playing inside even in Europe, and was far too inconsistent as a shooter. Poku has far more potential than Vesely ever had, but he's a project and obviously needs time to develop. Nothing he's done so far should be much of a surprise to anyone.

I liked Vesely, and I think Wizards made a mistake by turning him into bigman. One skill he had was perimeter defense, he was lockdown perimeter defender and yeah he had no offensive skill, but his shot was in development. If you drafted him, kept him lean, made him work on a corner 3, he could have been a more athletic Shane Battier IMO. But they instantly put him at center, and he wasnt ready nor good at it. Guys like Jankunas were killing him in the post, of course he will suck as bigman in the NBA. They completely abandoned idea of him ever becoming a passable shooter and just made him put up weight. Now he plays center, never shoots anymore, and hes just not the same player he was in Partizan.
ANd contra argument, is that years later league became super small ball, and Vesely never was destined to be SF, but he could be PF in a sense Gallinari or Robert Covington are PFs. His one skill was perimeter defense and WIzards never tried to build on it.

[Mirotic12]

I never understood the fascination with Vesely. Former Terp James Gist was his teammate in Europe and was a better player - certainly a lot tougher - and he didn't even sniff the NBA. Vesely was too soft for the NBA, showed poor hands when playing inside even in Europe, and was far too inconsistent as a shooter. Poku has far more potential than Vesely ever had, but he's a project and obviously needs time to develop. Nothing he's done so far should be much of a surprise to anyone.

Vesely is 7-0 with a 7-6 wingspan and a 40 inch vertical leap. He's also not just a big man that's a leaper, but is not very athletic beyond that (Stromile Swift), he's an all around and very explosive athlete, that can really run the floor with great mobility and dexterity and a tremendous motor. He's easily more athletic than Giannis is. That's what the fascination with him was.

Unfortunately, he has zero basketball skills.

James Gist, when he was in his prime, could have very easily played in the NBA. It's not true that he never sniffed the NBA, because he obviously just didn't want to play in the NBA for considerably less money than he was making in Europe, which was at the time the equivalent of $2.8 million a season in the NBA. When he was in his prime, he would have 100% for sure been able to be an NBA rotation player. Not even a shred of doubt about that.

[No-Man]

Vesely is an athletic freak that knows how to play basketball, he was played at SF when he is a Center in a team with very limited spacing that had a terrible coach in Wittman

Vesely would've been better than Cody Zeller for example, and probably an average starting Center in the NBA in his prime, still not worthy of a 6th pick, but he was no scrub, nor that he has zero bball skills, he can handle, pass, shoot some for a Center, definitely understands bball to a high level