NBA MVP Discussion 20/21 (Fresh poll ➥ Vote)

[DaFan334]

I would like to see the full list of this, but this seems like a pretty good stat for offense at least.

[Castle Black]

It’s too early for any of this to matter, but Jokic is your MVP 1/4 of the way into the season. He’s ballin’ right now.

[leolozon]

Lol. Trae falls and the refs blow the whistle even though no one touched him.

[Castle Black]

Its by far Lebron and it's not even close at this point.

Lol...

Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk

[BoatsNZones]

It’s too early for any of this to matter, but Jokic is your MVP 1/4 of the way into the season. He’s ballin’ right now.

Nah, this is where everything begins to fall into place, especially considering the shortened season.

I've said this but from a production perspective Jokic has Lebron crushed (and Embiid to a lesser extent), but from a narrative perspective tomorrow night's ESPN showcase between Denver @ LA will tell the story for the next couple weeks (either continuing for Lebron or finally see the correct shift).

Jokic is legit one of the best players in the league at this point (his playoff showings.. 25/11/7 on a 62% TS with a fairly meaningful sample.. along with this increased level this season have proved that to me). I put him right there with Lebron, Curry, KD and Kawhi. I have Luka, AD, Giannis and Harden in the tier below. Embiid as well if he proves he can do this on a more significant sample at these mpg; encouraged by his progress, but time will tell with him (and it matters that he has sat nearly 1/5th of their games).

[bebopdeluxe]

It’s too early for any of this to matter, but Jokic is your MVP 1/4 of the way into the season. He’s ballin’ right now.

Joel Embiid says hello.

Let me know when Jokic gets any DPOY votes. Thanks.

[Alonzo_Morning]

Zion Williamson is typing...

[BoatsNZones]

Zion Williamson is typing...

Is he asking for All Star consideration? Let him know the field is packed and his teams best player is on the outside looking in.

[eyeatoma]

It’s too early for any of this to matter, but Jokic is your MVP 1/4 of the way into the season. He’s ballin’ right now.

Nah, this is where everything begins to fall into place, especially considering the shortened season.

I've said this but from a production perspective Jokic has Lebron crushed (and Embiid to a lesser extent), but from a narrative perspective tomorrow night's ESPN showcase between Denver @ LA will tell the story for the next couple weeks (either continuing for Lebron or finally see the correct shift).

Jokic is legit one of the best players in the league at this point (his playoff showings.. 25/11/7 on a 62% TS with a fairly meaningful sample.. along with this increased level this season have proved that to me). I put him right there with Lebron, Curry, KD and Kawhi. I have Luka, AD, Giannis and Harden in the tier below. Embiid as well if he proves he can do this on a more significant sample at these mpg; encouraged by his progress, but time will tell with him (and it matters that he has sat nearly 1/5th of their games).

Embiid is averaging 28 and 11 with 67 true shooting and playing DPOY defense. He's also leading the league in free throw attempts, while shootint over 40 percent from three and 84% from the line. If Philly finishes with the best record in the East, Embiid is the MVP.

Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk

[Muha_i_samolet]

I would like to see the full list of this, but this seems like a pretty good stat for offense at least.

Only found this
https://www.theringer.com/nba/2020/1/24/21079412/points-creation-giannis-antetokounmpo-luka-doncic-lebron-james
Basically prove that Luka became best player in the NBA last year.

[WHITE_HOT_HEAT]

Jokic/Embiid leading like before. Awesome to see the big men do their stuff. Embiid scores higher on team record and Jokic on impact and carrying a bigger load.

Also, Kawhi and PG are both playing very well and Clippers are doing really well-
The problem is both are playing well without a clear separation IMO. Voters will penalize that unfortunately. Still they need to be appreciated.

Kawhi

PTS 26.2
TRB 5.3
AST 5.3
FG% 51.3
FG3% 40.4
FT% 90.9
eFG% 56.7
PER 28.4
WS 3.7

PG

PTS 24.4
TRB 6.2
AST 5.5
FG% 50.8
FG3% 47.8
FT% 90.5
eFG% 62.1
PER 23.5
WS 2.8

Also the Jazz players need some love, but again the question is who on the Jazz? - Gobert? Mitchell or Conley?

Lebron anywhere from 3-6 in MVP standings IMO. Lakers need the top record for his name to be up there and he needs slightly better stats.

I don't want to hear about anyone on BKN/Luka. They are disqualified due to a plethora of reasons.

[VDT]

Jokic/Embiid leading like before. Awesome to see the big men do their stuff. Embiid scores higher on team record and Jokic on impact and carrying a bigger load.

That's not based on the reality though. Embiid's on/off stats are much better than Jokic's and his team is 1-4 without him. He also scores more points in less mpg while anchoring the defense so i am not sure how yo get the bigger load/impact.

[AleksandarN]

MVP. This is just this last month. I never seen him dunk as much as seen him ever in this month alone.

Watch on YouTube

[eyeatoma]

MVP. This is just this last month. I never seen him dunk as much as seen him ever in this month alone.

Watch on YouTube

Obligatory MVP rival post

Watch on YouTube

[FinnTheHuman]

Jokic/Embiid leading like before. Awesome to see the big men do their stuff. Embiid scores higher on team record and Jokic on impact and carrying a bigger load.

That's not based on the reality though. Embiid's on/off stats are much better than Jokic's and his team is 1-4 without him. He also scores more points in less mpg while anchoring the defense so i am not sure how yo get the bigger load/impact.

Yes it is based on the reality, and if you watched the games of both teams, you'd know it. Jokic is heavily involved in every offensive possession, he is the Nuggets offense, while Embiid is just a scorer from the isolation and invisible on many offensive possessions. Completely different levels of offensive impact, one guy averages 8.6 assists and the other guy averages 2.8 assists, and all the screen assists and hockey assists that Jokic has more of than Embiid are also a part of this reality. Jokic's ORtg is historically high at 128, while Embiid closes some of the gap by being a great rim protector, but there's still a noticeable gap.

[Beta ray bill]

Right now for me
1. Jokic
2. Embiid
3. Kawhi

Coincidentally, my picks are the same with that of basketball reference mvp tracker
https://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/mvp.html

[VDT]

Jokic/Embiid leading like before. Awesome to see the big men do their stuff. Embiid scores higher on team record and Jokic on impact and carrying a bigger load.

That's not based on the reality though. Embiid's on/off stats are much better than Jokic's and his team is 1-4 without him. He also scores more points in less mpg while anchoring the defense so i am not sure how yo get the bigger load/impact.

Yes it is based on the reality, and if you watched the games of both teams, you'd know it. Jokic is heavily involved in every offensive possession, he is the Nuggets offense, while Embiid is just a scorer from the isolation and invisible on many offensive possessions. Completely different levels of offensive impact, one guy averages 8.6 assists and the other guy averages 2.8 assists, and all the screen assists and hockey assists that Jokic has more of than Embiid are also a part of this reality. Jokic's ORtg is historically high at 128, while Embiid closes some of the gap by being a great rim protector, but there's still a noticeable gap.

The guy said that Jokic impact was higher, how is it higher when Embiid's on/off stats are way higher. Embiid's team without him plays worse than the Nuggets without Jokic, yet the Sixers have an overall better record. Not that the on/off is the be all end all metric especially with a small sample size but i am not sure how can one say with such certainty that Jokic has a higher impact.

What you are saying is that they have a different role on the team.
Embiid has to carry both the defense and the offense. And by carrying i mean that the Sixers gameplan is to to just throw the ball to Embiid and have him score by himself. Jokic scores a lot of his points in the flow of the game and although he is the playmaker of the team i still dont see how he has to carry more load if you take both ends of the floor into account.

[jg77]

Whoever ends up with the better team record between Embiid and Jokic will probably be the MVP. It would be cool if they could be co-MVPs tho.

[kuclas]

Not that embiid is a good passer. But the open guy is usually Simmons. And Embiid misses out on 2-3 extra assists each game easily with wide open Simmons on the perimeter. Only time Embiid gets assist with Simmons is when Simmons is in the dunker slot and Embiid is drawing a crowd and see wide open Simmons in the paint

Jokic assists would be down 2-3 a game if he had Simmons as a point guard.

[FinnTheHuman]

Not that embiid is a good passer. But the open guy is usually Simmons. And Embiid misses out on 2-3 extra assists each game easily with wide open Simmons on the perimeter. Only time Embiid gets assist with Simmons is when Simmons is in the dunker slot and Embiid is drawing a crowd and see wide open Simmons in the paint

Jokic assists would be down 2-3 a game if he had Simmons as a point guard.

That's simply false. Look at the FG% of Philly starters vs FG% of Denver starters outside of Embiid and Jokic to see who's got better percentages. It's literally Seth Curry>Tobias Harris>Ben Simmons>Millsap and then a 5% drop off with Gary Harris>Jamal Murray>Will Barton>Danny Green. Your starters simply hit at a much higher percentage from the field, and Jokic would probably average more assists with Philly starters than with Nuggets starters because they're more competent scorers.

Not to mention Philly is 7th in pace while Denver is 26th, meaning less possessions per game for Denver meaning less opportunities for Jokic to rack up assists compared to Embiid.

Jokic plays more minutes so that does work in Jokic's favor, but Embiid is always gassed and plays worse in 4th quarters so you can't argue that Embiid would be able to up his assist numbers meaningfully if he played 3 more minutes. 2.8 assists in 31 minutes means less than 0.1 assists per minute, so yeah, maybe he'd be around 3 assists per game if he played the same minutes as Jokic.

Anyway, averaging 2.8 assists as a player with such a high usage is a disaster imo, leaders should have more than that, and there's no fun in such basketball. Less than 1 assist every 10 minutes by your 1st option, yuck.