GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2

Post #181 » by **fleet** » Fri Feb 5, 2021 3:08 pm

Lunartic wrote:

Well we don't want your head to spin,

Speak for yourself

Brothaman33 · Post #182 » by **Brothaman33** » Fri Feb 5, 2021 3:18 pm

A few thoughts...

1. As much as he was raved about defensively, I have been a little underwhelmed from an eye test. To me, he seems to run hot and cold. Yes, there are times when you see him get in a stance and lock down, it's not an ability issue. I see it as his motor is not running all the time. That may be because he is overthinking things or just getting up to speed.

2. The travels out of the triple threat are beginning to become nauseating. A few times to begin the season, fine, you're a rookie. This happens every game. Please find the issue and correct it.

3. A few have mentioned the slow release on the jumper, but that doesn't bother me as much because when he shoots 3's he hasn't had trouble being blocked and picks his spots well. He gets terrific elevation on his mid range, 1 handed shots so the release isn't a problem there either. I would like to see him take it to the hole a bit more and begin to learn about what he can and can't do to get easy buckets, avoid charges and get better at the rim.

4. I think we have to settle in with him. The curve is gonna be steep. Alot if rookies who are stars you can see right away. I don't see that with him yet. How good he gets is going to be all on the staff and how bad he actually wants to be a go-to "I believe I'm the best on the floor" player.

Settle in.

Post #183 » by **fleet** » Fri Feb 5, 2021 3:29 pm

He’s literally the youngest player in the NBA. That went straight to the League with no preparation and very little college ball. The negative hot takes re: his future are unconvincing.

GoBlue72391 · Post #184 » by **GoBlue72391** » Fri Feb 5, 2021 3:49 pm

Brothaman33 wrote:A few thoughts...

1. As much as he was raved about defensively, I have been a little underwhelmed from an eye test. To me, he seems to run hot and cold. Yes, there are times when you see him get in a stance and lock down, it's not an ability issue. I see it as his motor is not running all the time. That may be because he is overthinking things or just getting up to speed.

2. The travels out of the triple threat are beginning to become nauseating. A few times to begin the season, fine, you're a rookie. This happens every game. Please find the issue and correct it.

3. A few have mentioned the slow release on the jumper, but that doesn't bother me as much because when he shoots 3's he hasn't had trouble being blocked and picks his spots well. He gets terrific elevation on his mid range, 1 handed shots so the release isn't a problem there either. I would like to see him take it to the hole a bit more and begin to learn about what he can and can't do to get easy buckets, avoid charges and get better at the rim.

4. I think we have to settle in with him. The curve is gonna be steep. Alot if rookies who are stars you can see right away. I don't see that with him yet. How good he gets is going to be all on the staff and how bad he actually wants to be a go-to "I believe I'm the best on the floor" player.

Settle in.

"1. As much as he was raved about defensively, I have been a little underwhelmed from an eye test. To me, he seems to run hot and cold. Yes, there are times when you see him get in a stance and lock down, it's not an ability issue. I see it as his motor is not running all the time. That may be because he is overthinking things or just getting up to speed."

I actually do think it's an ability issue to an extent. He doesn't have the foot speed to develop into a true lockdown defender capable of guarding every position. It really limits his defensive ceiling if he's incapable of defending faster guards and wings.

He'll almost definitely never be anything close to Kawhi-like defensively, so the sooner we forget about that, the happier we'll be when he "fails" to live up to that lofty, unrealistic expectation.

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Post #185 » by **fleet** » Fri Feb 5, 2021 4:00 pm

^^^^ I doubt people thought rookie Kawhi was gonna be Kawhi either. Not that I think Pat will be a Kawhi myself, because who can ever be that? If he falls short he can still be reaaaaalllly good. Or really mediocre. Rookie Kawhi was I think a year older than Pat, and he had more experience, and their rookie stats are really close. Check it out. Moral of the story is, pick a superstar that had a better rookie year to derate Pat. It would work better.

ThisGuyFawkes · Post #186 » by **ThisGuyFawkes** » Fri Feb 5, 2021 4:04 pm

fleet wrote:He’s literally the youngest player in the NBA. That went straight to the League with no preparation and very little college ball. The negative hot takes re: his future are unconvincing.

I think Poku is the youngest, but I agree with your sentiment.

Post #187 » by **fleet** » Fri Feb 5, 2021 4:06 pm

mlitney01 wrote:
fleet wrote:He’s literally the youngest player in the NBA. That went straight to the League with no preparation and very little college ball. The negative hot takes re: his future are unconvincing.

I think Poku is the youngest, but I agree with your sentiment.

Poku was sent away. Pat is now it.

ThisGuyFawkes · Post #188 » by **ThisGuyFawkes** » Fri Feb 5, 2021 4:11 pm

fleet wrote:
mlitney01 wrote:
fleet wrote:He’s literally the youngest player in the NBA. That went straight to the League with no preparation and very little college ball. The negative hot takes re: his future are unconvincing.

I think Poku is the youngest, but I agree with your sentiment.

Poku was sent away. Pat is now it.

Oh, I didn't know that. Thanks for the clarification.

cjbulls · Post #189 » by **cjbulls** » Fri Feb 5, 2021 4:21 pm

fleet wrote:
mlitney01 wrote:
fleet wrote:He’s literally the youngest player in the NBA. That went straight to the League with no preparation and very little college ball. The negative hot takes re: his future are unconvincing.

I think Poku is the youngest, but I agree with your sentiment.

Poku was sent away. Pat is now it.

Why should we care that Pat is the youngest when there are a bunch of top pick rookies all within that same age range? I remember Ball is like 4 days older. We need to stop pretending he has much more basketball ability in him simply because he was born in August and Anthony Edwards was born in July or whatever.

GoBlue72391 · Post #190 » by **GoBlue72391** » Fri Feb 5, 2021 5:42 pm

fleet wrote:^^^^^ I doubt people thought rookie Kawhi was gonna be Kawhi either. Not that I think Pat will be a Kawhi myself, because who can ever be that? If he falls short he can still be reaaaaalllly good. Or really mediocre. Rookie Kawhi was I think a year older than Pat, and he had more experience, and their rookie stats are really close. Check it out. Moral of the story is, pick a superstar that had a better rookie year to derate Pat. It would work better.

Everyone compares him to Kawhi, so I was just addressing that comparison. I could see PWill eventually becoming relatively Kawhi-like offensively, and while I definitely think he'll for sure be a plus defender, I just don't see him ever becoming a true lockdown type unless his footspeed increases dramatically.

It's not about "derating" him, it's about looking at him for what he is and likely will become rather than what we want him to become. Don't get it twisted, I think he'll be a very good player in time.

Comparing rookie Kawhi's stats to rookie PWill's stats is pointless. It was a totally different game a decade ago and Kawhi's team was on a very different track than PWill's. Just like it's pointless to compare young Dirk's stats to what we've seen from Lauri.

This happens every single time with the new young rookie. People get so enamored with them that they perceive any realistic evaluation and/or critique as hating and being overly critical. If they're not drinking the next Dirk, next Horford, next Arenas, next Kawhi kool-aid, then they're wrong.

Not addressing you specifically, just people in general.

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ThisGuyFawkes · Post #191 » by **ThisGuyFawkes** » Fri Feb 5, 2021 8:46 pm

cjbulls wrote:
fleet wrote:
mlitney01 wrote:
I think Poku is the youngest, but I agree with your sentiment.

Poku was sent away. Pat is now it.

Why should we care that Pat is the youngest when there are a bunch of top pick rookies all within that same age range? I remember Ball is like 4 days older. We need to stop pretending he has much more basketball ability in him simply because he was born in August and Anthony Edwards was born in July or whatever.

Ball and Edwards weren't available when we picked. They shouldn't be in the equation when deciding if we selected the best player. I don't watch a lot of NBA games outside of the Bulls, but I'd be curious if any other rookies are looking better than Patrick but in the same age range. Haliburton is looking really good but he's a few years older.

cjbulls · Post #192 » by **cjbulls** » Fri Feb 5, 2021 9:06 pm

mlitney01 wrote:
cjbulls wrote:
fleet wrote:Poku was sent away. Pat is now it.

Why should we care that Pat is the youngest when there are a bunch of top pick rookies all within that same age range? I remember Ball is like 4 days older. We need to stop pretending he has much more basketball ability in him simply because he was born in August and Anthony Edwards was born in July or whatever.

Ball and Edwards weren't available when we picked. They shouldn't be in the equation when deciding if we selected the best player. I don't watch a lot of NBA games outside of the Bulls, but I'd be curious if any other rookies are looking better than Patrick but in the same age range. Haliburton is looking really good but he's a few years older.

Yea they should be considered when they should have traded up.

But nevertheless, age is an overhyped concept. If anything, the focus needs to be on years of service. Your body/skills aren’t that much different strictly based on a calendar year. They are based on what you have done. Patrick Williams played one year of college ball, so he has the same experience as roughly every other guy that played one year of college ball.

He plays the easiest position (5th option wing) and is one of the few prospects who came in with an nba ready body. Enough making excuses for him. The focus should be on what does he need to work on to get better.

nomorezorro · Post #193 » by **nomorezorro** » Fri Feb 5, 2021 9:29 pm

people have different development curves, and age and experience both play a factor. i think it's reasonable to suggest that a guy who played a year as a reserve in college is on a different track than a guy who has, since adolescence, been actively positioned as the centerpiece of a team, even if they're the same age.

i also think it's fair to point out that theoretical growth capability is worth a lot less than actual skill/performance, but still. the facts surrounding patrick williams have not changed that much since he was drafted...11 weeks ago. it's frustrating that he started off better than a lot of people expected and then tapered off a bit, but that doesn't make it reasonable to say "why isn't he getting better???" about a 19 year old who is 1.5 months into his professional career

cjbulls · Post #194 » by **cjbulls** » Fri Feb 5, 2021 9:43 pm

nomorezorro wrote:people have different development curves, and age and experience both play a factor. i think it's reasonable to suggest that a guy who played a year as a reserve in college is on a different track than a guy who has, since adolescence, been actively positioned as the centerpiece of a team, even if they're the same age.

i also think it's fair to point out that theoretical growth capability is worth a lot less than actual skill/performance, but still. the facts surrounding patrick williams have not changed that much since he was drafted...11 weeks ago. it's frustrating that he started off better than a lot of people expected and then tapered off a bit, but that doesn't make it reasonable to say "why isn't he getting better???" about a 19 year old who is 1.5 months into his professional career

He was a top 20-30 recruit depending on the service, not some unknown. He played 22.5 mpg in the ACC, for a top 5 team. And he got to practice with an extremely talented roster that featured other nba players like Vassell.

I don’t think many people are questioning why he isn’t getting better. The scouting report is out on him. It appears to me that he’s slowly trying to adapt. It’s a work in progress.

LateNight · Post #195 » by **LateNight** » Sat Feb 6, 2021 2:23 am

Looked damn good being aggressive tonight.

Post #196 » by **DASMACKDOWN** » Sat Feb 6, 2021 3:37 am

Read on Twitter

Post #197 » by **DASMACKDOWN** » Sat Feb 6, 2021 3:41 am

Watch on YouTube

Clocian · Post #198 » by **Clocian** » Sat Feb 6, 2021 3:47 am

DASMACKDOWN wrote:

Watch on YouTube

Our fans are quick to doubt the rook. Great game. Can't wait to see his shot attempts go up as his aggressiveness gradually goes up

cjbulls · Post #199 » by **cjbulls** » Sat Feb 6, 2021 4:11 am

Who was that #9 tonight??? I was getting pretty hyped up watching what aggressive Pat can do!

mtron32 · Post #200 » by **mtron32** » Sat Feb 6, 2021 4:23 am

cjbulls wrote:
nomorezorro wrote:people have different development curves, and age and experience both play a factor. i think it's reasonable to suggest that a guy who played a year as a reserve in college is on a different track than a guy who has, since adolescence, been actively positioned as the centerpiece of a team, even if they're the same age.

i also think it's fair to point out that theoretical growth capability is worth a lot less than actual skill/performance, but still. the facts surrounding patrick williams have not changed that much since he was drafted...11 weeks ago. it's frustrating that he started off better than a lot of people expected and then tapered off a bit, but that doesn't make it reasonable to say "why isn't he getting better???" about a 19 year old who is 1.5 months into his professional career

He was a top 20-30 recruit depending on the service, not some unknown. He played 22.5 mpg in the ACC, for a top 5 team. And he got to practice with an extremely talented roster that featured other nba players like Vassell.

I don’t think many people are questioning why he isn’t getting better. The scouting report is out on him. It appears to me that he’s slowly trying to adapt. It’s a work in progress.

This, the league adjusted and now we’re seeing how Pat is adjusting. Good news is the dude is making a some small strides. I can’t wait till he starts tearing fools heads off.