NBA MVP Discussion 20/21 (Fresh poll ➥ Vote)

[Big J]

Joker stays at 1. I don't care if he lost today. Him getting a 50 spot and not winning shows he's playing with trash ass teammates.

[trickshot]

It has been consensual understanding that you cant get MVP with another MVP caliber player on your team. The numbers are shallow, everyone next to AD will get basically 7+ assists for free. LeBron plays literally no defense especially on help, he just stands around and allows guys to blow by without even stepping in - the reason the Lakers still have a huge defense is only AD. That is his self declared "coasting" so there really is no case for him to be MVP at this point. Cant do it all, use the coasting excuse when losing and then pretend you're going all out when talking MVP.

Jokic should be on top, but then KD has shown to be key for the Nets. If they end up on top of the east he is just as valid as a candidate. Embiid, Kawhi also above LeBron. Not sure about Giannis at this point, but we have to stick to the condition for MVP - its a regular season award, its not based on what guys did in the past, or in the post season. In the reg season Giannis is a monster, on both ends. So yeah probably above LeBron as well. If AD gets back to last seasons' shape even he should be above LeBron because he actually plays defense 48 min and not only for 1 or 2 marquee TV moments.

It's pretty clear you don't watch Laker games so please don't comment. That is a load of dribble you just posted.

Its also pretty clear that you are a lakers guy who cant stay neutral when commenting on lakers. Casual take but i'll let it go since youre just a fan. In your own interest i hope you've been a lakers fan for more than two seasons...

He's right though. How can you say Lebron plays no help defense. Once true but hasn't been the case for 2 years now since AD joined and started challenging Lebron on lazy rotations.

Anyway top MVP performers. Jokic and Embiid. Embiid takes it for team record. Lakers would need a substantially greater win margin for Lebron to take it over Biid. Btw I'd actually put Kyrie in as well. Everyone just assumes it's KD because he's the best player but Kyrie has been wild this year. Problem is these Nets guys sit out every 3rd game

[LesGrossman]

It's pretty clear you don't watch Laker games so please don't comment. That is a load of dribble you just posted.

Its also pretty clear that you are a lakers guy who cant stay neutral when commenting on lakers. Casual take but i'll let it go since youre just a fan. In your own interest i hope you've been a lakers fan for more than two seasons...

He's right though. How can you say Lebron plays no help defense. Once true but hasn't been the case for 2 years now since AD joined and started challenging Lebron on lazy rotations.

Anyway top MVP performers. Jokic and Embiid. Embiid takes it for team record. Lakers would need a substantially greater win margin for Lebron to take it over Biid. Btw I'd actually put Kyrie in as well. Everyone just assumes it's KD because he's the best player but Kyrie has been wild this year. Problem is these Nets guys sit out every 3rd game

Well maybe we are seeing different games. I see him take whole plays off to an extent that he doesnt even cross half court to be back on defense - dunno how one can oversee or justify that. I know that fans and casuals only look at spectacular offensive plays but i understand you watch both ends - so did you miss his lazy plays the whole season?

LeBron is literally a product of media. He is perfect at manipulating the narrative so he takes care to make one or two defensive plays for bleacherreport and ESPN but over 48 min he is a black hole on D.

[Homer38]

Its also pretty clear that you are a lakers guy who cant stay neutral when commenting on lakers. Casual take but i'll let it go since youre just a fan. In your own interest i hope you've been a lakers fan for more than two seasons...

He's right though. How can you say Lebron plays no help defense. Once true but hasn't been the case for 2 years now since AD joined and started challenging Lebron on lazy rotations.

Anyway top MVP performers. Jokic and Embiid. Embiid takes it for team record. Lakers would need a substantially greater win margin for Lebron to take it over Biid. Btw I'd actually put Kyrie in as well. Everyone just assumes it's KD because he's the best player but Kyrie has been wild this year. Problem is these Nets guys sit out every 3rd game

Well maybe we are seeing different games. I see him take whole plays off to an extent that he doesnt even cross half court to be back on defense - dunno how one can oversee or justify that. I know that fans and casuals only look at spectacular offensive plays but i understand you watch both ends - so did you miss his lazy plays the whole season?

LeBron is literally a product of media. He is perfect at manipulating the narrative so he takes care to make one or two defensive plays for bleacherreport and ESPN but over 48 min he is a black hole on D.

according to this,the opponents are just at 40.3% against this lazy black hole on D

https://www.nba.com/stats/player/2544/by-position/?Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PerMode=PerGame

keep ignoring facts and keep creating false stories

[LesGrossman]

He's right though. How can you say Lebron plays no help defense. Once true but hasn't been the case for 2 years now since AD joined and started challenging Lebron on lazy rotations.

Anyway top MVP performers. Jokic and Embiid. Embiid takes it for team record. Lakers would need a substantially greater win margin for Lebron to take it over Biid. Btw I'd actually put Kyrie in as well. Everyone just assumes it's KD because he's the best player but Kyrie has been wild this year. Problem is these Nets guys sit out every 3rd game

Well maybe we are seeing different games. I see him take whole plays off to an extent that he doesnt even cross half court to be back on defense - dunno how one can oversee or justify that. I know that fans and casuals only look at spectacular offensive plays but i understand you watch both ends - so did you miss his lazy plays the whole season?

LeBron is literally a product of media. He is perfect at manipulating the narrative so he takes care to make one or two defensive plays for bleacherreport and ESPN but over 48 min he is a black hole on D.

according to this,the opponents are just at 40.3% against this lazy black hole on D

https://www.nba.com/stats/player/2544/by-position/?Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PerMode=PerGame

keep ignoring facts and keep creating false stories

Well we know you're a boxscore expert i'd rather trust my eyes, you are free to believe that one can play good defense while on the wrong side of the court.

[Homer38]

Well maybe we are seeing different games. I see him take whole plays off to an extent that he doesnt even cross half court to be back on defense - dunno how one can oversee or justify that. I know that fans and casuals only look at spectacular offensive plays but i understand you watch both ends - so did you miss his lazy plays the whole season?

LeBron is literally a product of media. He is perfect at manipulating the narrative so he takes care to make one or two defensive plays for bleacherreport and ESPN but over 48 min he is a black hole on D.

according to this,the opponents are just at 40.3% against this lazy black hole on D

https://www.nba.com/stats/player/2544/by-position/?Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PerMode=PerGame

keep ignoring facts and keep creating false stories

Well we know you're a boxscore expert i'd rather trust my eyes, you are free to believe that one can play good defense while on the wrong side of the court.

I'm sorry but no one believes in your eyes

[LesGrossman]

according to this,the opponents are just at 40.3% against this lazy black hole on D

https://www.nba.com/stats/player/2544/by-position/?Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PerMode=PerGame

keep ignoring facts and keep creating false stories

Well we know you're a boxscore expert i'd rather trust my eyes, you are free to believe that one can play good defense while on the wrong side of the court.

I'm sorry but no one believes in your eyes

Well you are entitled to your opinion. Just dont assume its everyone's. Your name suggests you lack objectivity, or maybe you get paid to spread this nonsense.

These are real plays. Not from a video game. He does not guard his own guy nor does he help, way too often to allow it to slip. You can also see (and observe each and every game) that after make or miss, he either whines to the refs or poses for the cameras instead of sprinting back. Then when his team is being scored on he always has this pose that seems to say "i always have to play with these incompetent losers" as if it wasnt his fault:

Watch on YouTube

[toodles23]

Its also pretty clear that you are a lakers guy who cant stay neutral when commenting on lakers. Casual take but i'll let it go since youre just a fan. In your own interest i hope you've been a lakers fan for more than two seasons...

He's right though. How can you say Lebron plays no help defense. Once true but hasn't been the case for 2 years now since AD joined and started challenging Lebron on lazy rotations.

Anyway top MVP performers. Jokic and Embiid. Embiid takes it for team record. Lakers would need a substantially greater win margin for Lebron to take it over Biid. Btw I'd actually put Kyrie in as well. Everyone just assumes it's KD because he's the best player but Kyrie has been wild this year. Problem is these Nets guys sit out every 3rd game

Well maybe we are seeing different games. I see him take whole plays off to an extent that he doesnt even cross half court to be back on defense - dunno how one can oversee or justify that. I know that fans and casuals only look at spectacular offensive plays but i understand you watch both ends - so did you miss his lazy plays the whole season?

LeBron is literally a product of media. He is perfect at manipulating the narrative so he takes care to make one or two defensive plays for bleacherreport and ESPN but over 48 min he is a black hole on D.

Your posts are so detached from reality at this point that they just read like bad fan fiction.

If you're going to dedicate your entire existence on this board to hating on a guy you should at least make your posts sound semi-plausible to informed fans.

[Homer38]

Well we know you're a boxscore expert i'd rather trust my eyes, you are free to believe that one can play good defense while on the wrong side of the court.

I'm sorry but no one believes in your eyes

Well you are entitled to your opinion. Just dont assume its everyone's. Your name suggests you lack objectivity, or maybe you get paid to spread this nonsense.

Ask those who are credible on this forum or make a thread to find out what others think about LBJ's defense this year.

One thing is certain, not many will say that LBJ is a black hole or is lazy in defense .... Impossible to be the number 1 team defense in the NBA if your team leader is lazy..... A team needs talent in defense but the effort of each player is also crucial.

[Homer38]

Well we know you're a boxscore expert i'd rather trust my eyes, you are free to believe that one can play good defense while on the wrong side of the court.

I'm sorry but no one believes in your eyes

Well you are entitled to your opinion. Just dont assume its everyone's. Your name suggests you lack objectivity, or maybe you get paid to spread this nonsense.

These are real plays. Not from a video game. He does not guard his own guy nor does he help, way too often to allow it to slip. You can also see (and observe each and every game) that after make or miss, he either whines to the refs or poses for the cameras instead of sprinting back. Then when his team is being scored on he always has this pose that seems to say "i always have to play with these incompetent losers" as if it wasnt his fault:

Watch on YouTube

This video was in 2019 and only 4 minutes long...Watch this video(12 minutes long)

Watch on YouTube

[LesGrossman]

He's right though. How can you say Lebron plays no help defense. Once true but hasn't been the case for 2 years now since AD joined and started challenging Lebron on lazy rotations.

Anyway top MVP performers. Jokic and Embiid. Embiid takes it for team record. Lakers would need a substantially greater win margin for Lebron to take it over Biid. Btw I'd actually put Kyrie in as well. Everyone just assumes it's KD because he's the best player but Kyrie has been wild this year. Problem is these Nets guys sit out every 3rd game

Well maybe we are seeing different games. I see him take whole plays off to an extent that he doesnt even cross half court to be back on defense - dunno how one can oversee or justify that. I know that fans and casuals only look at spectacular offensive plays but i understand you watch both ends - so did you miss his lazy plays the whole season?

LeBron is literally a product of media. He is perfect at manipulating the narrative so he takes care to make one or two defensive plays for bleacherreport and ESPN but over 48 min he is a black hole on D.

Your posts are so detached from reality at this point that they just read like bad fan fiction.

If you're going to dedicate your entire existence on this board to hating on a guy you should at least make your posts sound semi-plausible to informed fans.

Again, its not my job to educate casuals on what good defense means and what to look for when watching games (hint: Its not the guy with the ball in hand). Whenever guys have no other argument than attack a person instead of the case, its a sign they cant refute the point made. You're not very convincing here.

[RB34]

Huge stat line for Jokic! Shame it wasn’t in a win, maybe if he had a player like AD on his team.

[toodles23]

Well maybe we are seeing different games. I see him take whole plays off to an extent that he doesnt even cross half court to be back on defense - dunno how one can oversee or justify that. I know that fans and casuals only look at spectacular offensive plays but i understand you watch both ends - so did you miss his lazy plays the whole season?

LeBron is literally a product of media. He is perfect at manipulating the narrative so he takes care to make one or two defensive plays for bleacherreport and ESPN but over 48 min he is a black hole on D.

Your posts are so detached from reality at this point that they just read like bad fan fiction.

If you're going to dedicate your entire existence on this board to hating on a guy you should at least make your posts sound semi-plausible to informed fans.

Again, its not my job to educate casuals on what good defense means and what to look for when watching games (hint: Its not the guy with the ball in hand). Whenever guys have no other argument than attack a person instead of the case, its a sign they cant refute the point made. You're not very convincing here.

You haven't actually made any points, you've just made stuff up without a shred of evidence to back up your claims. There's nothing to refute.

[Big J]

Curry movin' on up up up.

[trickshot]

Its also pretty clear that you are a lakers guy who cant stay neutral when commenting on lakers. Casual take but i'll let it go since youre just a fan. In your own interest i hope you've been a lakers fan for more than two seasons...

He's right though. How can you say Lebron plays no help defense. Once true but hasn't been the case for 2 years now since AD joined and started challenging Lebron on lazy rotations.

Anyway top MVP performers. Jokic and Embiid. Embiid takes it for team record. Lakers would need a substantially greater win margin for Lebron to take it over Biid. Btw I'd actually put Kyrie in as well. Everyone just assumes it's KD because he's the best player but Kyrie has been wild this year. Problem is these Nets guys sit out every 3rd game

Well maybe we are seeing different games. I see him take whole plays off to an extent that he doesnt even cross half court to be back on defense - dunno how one can oversee or justify that. I know that fans and casuals only look at spectacular offensive plays but i understand you watch both ends - so did you miss his lazy plays the whole season?

LeBron is literally a product of media. He is perfect at manipulating the narrative so he takes care to make one or two defensive plays for bleacherreport and ESPN but over 48 min he is a black hole on D.

He can take plays off and still be a positive impact defender. Those things aren't exclusive. The eye test and stats back it up. I feel you're operating on confirmation bias and youtube compilations. Your chief evidence is a youtube video because no objective metric can confirm this notion. Not his tracking data or stat. For example can you give an instance of a game this season where he was a negative? Promise will look at it objectively and say if it's correct but you have to first point out the games you speak of

[LesGrossman]

He's right though. How can you say Lebron plays no help defense. Once true but hasn't been the case for 2 years now since AD joined and started challenging Lebron on lazy rotations.

Anyway top MVP performers. Jokic and Embiid. Embiid takes it for team record. Lakers would need a substantially greater win margin for Lebron to take it over Biid. Btw I'd actually put Kyrie in as well. Everyone just assumes it's KD because he's the best player but Kyrie has been wild this year. Problem is these Nets guys sit out every 3rd game

Well maybe we are seeing different games. I see him take whole plays off to an extent that he doesnt even cross half court to be back on defense - dunno how one can oversee or justify that. I know that fans and casuals only look at spectacular offensive plays but i understand you watch both ends - so did you miss his lazy plays the whole season?

LeBron is literally a product of media. He is perfect at manipulating the narrative so he takes care to make one or two defensive plays for bleacherreport and ESPN but over 48 min he is a black hole on D.

He can take plays off and still be a positive impact defender. Those things aren't exclusive. The eye test and stats back it up. I feel you're operating on confirmation bias and youtube compilations. Your chief evidence is a youtube video because no objective metric can confirm this notion. Not his tracking data or stat. For example can you give an instance of a game this season where he was a negative? Promise will try to look at it objectively and admit if it's true but you have to first point out the games you speak of

Look i know its against popular belief but i am not someone to put his whole trust and evaulation into the numbers. The numbers even if more sophisticated these days do not describe the whole game, you have to read them in context with your observeration. I dont know your background, i've been coaching for a long time and habitually watch the guys off the ball, including their automatics when the ball is in the air, their closeout lanes, hand positioning and so on. While i'm obviously not a great fan of leBron i trust my assessment to be rational enough. He has played consistent defense in one game that i've watched so far, and meh in all others (i havent seen ALL lakers games but it seemed to be related to national TV). If you cant see that his defensive effort, especially on help, just isnt there most of the time then i'm afraid theres not a basis to discuss. I just dont feel like doing video editing to convince someone on this forum who is probably unwilling to change his mind anyway. I've stated my opinion you've stated yours lets leave it at that.

[trickshot]

Well maybe we are seeing different games. I see him take whole plays off to an extent that he doesnt even cross half court to be back on defense - dunno how one can oversee or justify that. I know that fans and casuals only look at spectacular offensive plays but i understand you watch both ends - so did you miss his lazy plays the whole season?

LeBron is literally a product of media. He is perfect at manipulating the narrative so he takes care to make one or two defensive plays for bleacherreport and ESPN but over 48 min he is a black hole on D.

He can take plays off and still be a positive impact defender. Those things aren't exclusive. The eye test and stats back it up. I feel you're operating on confirmation bias and youtube compilations. Your chief evidence is a youtube video because no objective metric can confirm this notion. Not his tracking data or stat. For example can you give an instance of a game this season where he was a negative? Promise will try to look at it objectively and admit if it's true but you have to first point out the games you speak of

Look i know its against popular belief but i am not someone to put his whole trust and evaulation into the numbers. The numbers even if more sophisticated these days do not describe the whole game, you have to read them in context with your observeration. I dont know your background, i've been coaching for a long time and habitually watch the guys off the ball, including their automatics when the ball is in the air, their closeout lanes, hand positioning and so on. While i'm obviously not a great fan of leBron i trust my assessment to be rational enough. He has played consistent defense in one game that i've watched so far, and meh in all others (i havent seen ALL lakers games but it seemed to be related to national TV). If you cant see that his defensive effort, especially on help, just isnt there most of the time then i'm afraid theres not a basis to discuss. I just dont feel like doing video editing to convince someone on this forum who is probably unwilling to change his mind anyway. I've stated my opinion you've stated yours lets leave it at that.

sure we can agree to disagree. It's just basketball anyway

[Impuniti]

Curry movin' on up up up.

Curry shouldn't win MVP unless he puts his team 3rd in the West.

[Big J]

Curry movin' on up up up.

Curry shouldn't win MVP unless he puts his team 3rd in the West.

Have you seen what he’s playing with? His teams record isn’t much worse than Jokers.

[Packbuckman]

Giannis looking better at the line and overall in general he keeps that up and the bucks get best record again he’s the dark horse to win it.