BugginOut wrote:DickGrayson wrote:I support Toppin, but I spent 10 minutes watching this
now I deeply understand why the Knicks will never see any kind of championship.
It's bonehead moves passing up on a professional basketball technician who's an underrated athlete, has insane agility and balance and underrated strength. I was going to make a thread about this but, I'll save it here.
Passing up on Ty will haunt us like how we passed up on Donovan Mitchell over Frank.
I think Toppin will be a good player. But I see him having Aaron Gordon level impact. Great dunker, can play the forward position and stretch, but isn't a master of anything. I do hope Toppin can surpass Gordon who has had lackluster FG% and to me isn't physical to the expectation you have for someone who is so athletic. I want Toppin to be a guy who can get to the FT line at will, and at 220lbs, he may need to add mass to compete with the best.
Tyrese isn't brolic by any means, but at his position and his wiry strength, I've seen him absorb contact well and make contested shots. Great defensive awareness, has great feet, timing, stop and go, basically all the tricks you can think of, a lot of flash to his game....it's like Tyrese would was made to steal the show in NY, make the Nets look like has been and give us 15 years of all star basketball. I think LaMelo is rookie of the year but I would not protest at all if Ty wins it. Kings look competitive every game and Ty is emerging as a leader for that team that they needed for years. DeMarcus Cousins was not one, and Fox/Haliburton in the backcourt is one of the best young foundations in the NBA. Fox is a great defender and tbh, I was imaging what the hype would be like if we had both Haliburton and Quickley in the backcourt. The impact would mirror Fox/Haliburton which would answer the Knicks biggest problem, backcourt issues. Thank god we got Quickley and I'm sure people will say "Hey if we drafted Haliburton at 8, we wouldn't have drafted Quickley". I don't know. In this era of the NBA, you need guards. Just fantasy thinking, I'll stop.
TEAM TOPPIN ALL THE WAY.
just hate how good Tyrese is.
Tyrese is good, but lets pump the breaks a little bit. Does anyone actually see him becoming an allstar especially in the west? Tyrese will be a good role player, but he's not going to be a star by any metric. You talk about Obi not getting to the FT line, but Obi has 3 less total FTA than Tyrese on the season and Tyrese has played 400 more minutes than Obi. Tyrese is not attacking the rim like that, he's had 12 made FG at the rim all season and half of them have been dunks.
Tyrese also doesn't create his own shot 90% of his 3s are assisted, in comparison only 50% of Quickley's 3s are assisted. Tyrese can't "take over a game." He will make the open shot and make the right pass, but he isn't breaking anyone off the dribble. One of the reason's he is playing so well is cause he plays next to Fox who can break down the defense for him.
Finally even the thing he is applauded for, "defense," seems suspect. While he might pass the eye test every defensive metric has him as a negative defender. I don't know if this is because he gambles for steal or is just a bad help defender, but the team performs worse defensively with him on the court.
I don't want to sh*t on Tyrese, because he is a good and efficient player, but he isn't a can't miss guard like Ja, Shai or Mitchell.
I think Tyrese is better than good. When you're a candidate for rookie of the year when you're picked "12", usually thats enough to quality as the best or one of the best in this draft class.
I see Ty becoming more than an "all star", if you follow Kings games and their fanbase, they usually feel like Tyrese is the best player on the floor at times. His fundamentals and awareness are obviously there.
I agree about his off the ball shooting, obviously because of his release and set up, he's not going to be making contested jumpers to the degree of difficulty you expect from an elite player. But Tyrese is shooting 42% as a rookie and his spot up shooting is great. I believe Fox is an elite guard and Tyrese and Fox together can make the all star team once we see guys like LeBron retire, and the elite guards of today regress.
I think it's way too early to rely on metrics that show Haliburton is a bad defender, but you definitely make a point. As most rookies, the defense will be raw I just think Tyrese has shown flashes he will be a good defender like Shaun Livingston was for GS in terms of switching and defending multiple positions. I do believe Ty's defensive potential is real. I think Fox is an excellent defensive PG while providing explosive offense and his new pull up jumpshot that has been refined. Haliburton also has a knack for making plays on defense despite a thin 175-pound frame...He has gambled in this early 20+ game season so far, but with experience his defense will be refined like Fox and by season 3-4 you'll have an excellent defensive PG/SG who can pass, shoot, score and play team ball.
I think if we review the video again, Tyrese has a creative moveset and floor spacing moves. He has ability to break down the defense through pick and rolls, off the ball and through isolation. His drive game is good. Immanuel Quickley is unique in his own and I believe IQ will also be an all star guard... I believe Ty will add more to his game like Brodgon did, who was a steal like Ty and ROY winner. Different players but similar in being hyper efficient combo guard that is effective on and off ball. High IQ and potential in defensive schemes and offensive rotations. I believe IQ also fits this mold, but IQ is much superior in agility and natural scoring ability....IQ has potential to average 25ppg once he gets more experience. But my post initially is about Ty, and I'm glad we have IQ and I root for Toppin. I believe Ty is a can't miss type prospect but Ball is also is one to me and if IQ gets minutes and evolves he can be one too. This the future of the league.
