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Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VII: Magic Expected To Retain Core

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Re: Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VII: Where do we go from here? 

Post#521 » by pepe1991 » Tue Feb 9, 2021 11:48 am

MagicMatic wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:People pay way too much attention what pages like ringer are saying.
That's same Ringer who had article " Harris or Gordon" and drooled over Gordon. Harris ended up having almost 4 years in a row with 20 ppg, 7 rebounds ,3 assists with <56% TS.

In 2019, Ringer had " Are we sure the Magic won't make a leap"
https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/8/21/20825766/are-we-sure-orlando-magic

Gordon can do everything else on the court well. After averaging a career high in points two seasons ago, Gordon made another important leap last season: He became a legitimate playmaker, averaging a career high in assists (3.7 per game) while barely increasing his turnovers (2.1 per game). He can clean the defensive glass and start a fast break himself, and he can pass the ball out of the pick-and-roll in the half court. According to the tracking numbers at Synergy Sports, Gordon was in the 53rd percentile of players in shots he generated for himself and his teammates.
The result is that Gordon is now one of the most well-rounded players in the league. He can defend players at all five positions and also score, shoot, pass, and rebound. The only players to average as many points, rebounds, assists, steals, and 3-point attempts per game last season as Gordon are Joel Embiid and Karl-Anthony Towns. This may not be the best version of Gordon, either. A 23-year-old with his physical tools who has already shown the work ethic to improve is a good bet to keep getting better.


You would thought they were talking about young Tracy, not at that point 5 years pro, who peaked at 17ppg and below average efficiency (53% TS).

There is no reason why any sports site needs to "teach " you what you can see with your healthy eyes.


Except people were talking about the Bamba stuff before the Ringer even wrote anything. They just reaffirmed what 90% of us were already thinking.


Bamba wasn't able to play. First he did not show up for preseason, wasn't ready for season, than he had back issue with hit in back in a game, than he got back into covid 19 protocol as contact.
He returnd in active rotation late in January.
People just don't like facts, rather pretend he has been out for 6 months because coach hates him. In reality, he got like 12 DNP-CDs in his whole career.

You can argue playing 30 min will somehow make him better, i would argue playing 30 min won't make you any better than playnig 10-15 min.
Tobias Harris averaged 11 min a game in 42 games of rookie year, lower than Bamba.
In second year he averaged 11,6 mpg for Bucks (4,9 ppg) and second day after a trade was ready to put up 36 mpg (17 ppg ) with Orlando. Can you argue he didn't develop in rookie year because he wasn't getting 30mpg? Ehh...

Joel Embiid didn't even play first 2 nba seasons and in third he looked like allstar.
Noel and Jah averaged +30 mpg during his 2 years off, and yet, Embiid was better in first second of nba action than Jah and Noel ever.

Players do have some learning curve during in game action, but most of the development happends behind close doors and at practice and indvidiual workouts during offtime.
But fans always get to most basic- chicken-egg argument "doesn't play because of it he can't develop = doesn't develop that's why he doesn't play"

:dontknow:

Issue is level of talent, most young players that "need lot of time" simply -don't have that much talent to being with. Word "project" was literally brought up by Sam Presti after he drafted complete bust Hasheem Thabeet to deflect critics from him.

I've said more lot of times that i don't care if Bamba gets 18-25 mpg a game, i just don't trust his body nor i belive he can handle that loud, also since he is 3rd year player who turns 23 in 3 months i don't think he will ever be anything more than part time starter / backup /third string C so i don't care if they DNP him for rest of a year. I'm done developing future backups .
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VII: Where do we go from here? 

Post#522 » by MagicFan4Lyfe » Tue Feb 9, 2021 1:32 pm

https://orlandomagicdaily.com/2021/02/07/orlando-magic-must-still-build-and-grow-to-make-lottery-trip-temporary/

The goal — with the team’s high payroll — was to one day be able to flip players for the kind of star players that would tie the whole project together with the players Weltman has drafted.

- the draft picks have been ok and either you play Bamba or you admit you blew that pick and move on.

"Orlando will not see a complete teardown as ideal. The team will stick to believing it can make the playoffs in 2022 again. And that should be the team’s focus and goal"

- I think this guy must be Weltman's son. WTF is the point of just barely squeezing into the playoffs? WTF is this madness? WTF is wrong with this team and front office? I swear this must be some sort of master play by Devos family and Martins to run the team to the ground and no one cares so they can relocate to a bigger market.

WHY DO I STILL FOLLOW THIS GARBAGE ORGANIZATION???
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VII: Where do we go from here? 

Post#523 » by basketballRob » Tue Feb 9, 2021 1:41 pm

I always wonder if Vuc wasn't here if he'd just be another Alex Len.

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Re: Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VII: Where do we go from here? 

Post#524 » by MartinsIzAfraud » Tue Feb 9, 2021 2:09 pm

MagicFan4Lyfe wrote:https://orlandomagicdaily.com/2021/02/07/orlando-magic-must-still-build-and-grow-to-make-lottery-trip-temporary/

The goal — with the team’s high payroll — was to one day be able to flip players for the kind of star players that would tie the whole project together with the players Weltman has drafted.

- the draft picks have been ok and either you play Bamba or you admit you blew that pick and move on.

"Orlando will not see a complete teardown as ideal. The team will stick to believing it can make the playoffs in 2022 again. And that should be the team’s focus and goal"

- I think this guy must be Weltman's son. WTF is the point of just barely squeezing into the playoffs? WTF is this madness? WTF is wrong with this team and front office? I swear this must be some sort of master play by Devos family and Martins to run the team to the ground and no one cares so they can relocate to a bigger market.

WHY DO I STILL FOLLOW THIS GARBAGE ORGANIZATION???


Has to pump sunshine or else OMD loses credentials. If you haven't been following who use to cover the Magic and now who doesn't it makes sense. Anez & Nick G use to have all the Magic game coverage and talk tons of Magic stuff. The last 3 years they started getting very critical and somewhat sassy with how the Magic were being run and boom they got all Magic coverage "randomly" taken away.

Orlando media is so freaking lame and soft its a joke. Outside of maybe Robbins who asks the tough questions we have softball guys like Denton, OMD & a few other randoms.
A scoring guard.. never heard of one. :roll:
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VII: Where do we go from here? 

Post#525 » by MartinsIzAfraud » Tue Feb 9, 2021 2:47 pm

basketballRob wrote:I always wonder if Vuc wasn't here if he'd just be another Alex Len.

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He’s a nice piece but he won’t be THE piece for many teams. He’ll finish his career in Orlando because we’ll continue to pay for the player he is knowing we won’t get anything close if he leaves.

Not his fault the FO is terrible at acquiring talent and putting a team together.
A scoring guard.. never heard of one. :roll:
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VII: Where do we go from here? 

Post#526 » by MagicFan4Lyfe » Tue Feb 9, 2021 3:44 pm

MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
MagicFan4Lyfe wrote:https://orlandomagicdaily.com/2021/02/07/orlando-magic-must-still-build-and-grow-to-make-lottery-trip-temporary/

The goal — with the team’s high payroll — was to one day be able to flip players for the kind of star players that would tie the whole project together with the players Weltman has drafted.

- the draft picks have been ok and either you play Bamba or you admit you blew that pick and move on.

"Orlando will not see a complete teardown as ideal. The team will stick to believing it can make the playoffs in 2022 again. And that should be the team’s focus and goal"

- I think this guy must be Weltman's son. WTF is the point of just barely squeezing into the playoffs? WTF is this madness? WTF is wrong with this team and front office? I swear this must be some sort of master play by Devos family and Martins to run the team to the ground and no one cares so they can relocate to a bigger market.

WHY DO I STILL FOLLOW THIS GARBAGE ORGANIZATION???


Has to pump sunshine or else OMD loses credentials. If you haven't been following who use to cover the Magic and now who doesn't it makes sense. Anez & Nick G use to have all the Magic game coverage and talk tons of Magic stuff. The last 3 years they started getting very critical and somewhat sassy with how the Magic were being run and boom they got all Magic coverage "randomly" taken away.

Orlando media is so freaking lame and soft its a joke. Outside of maybe Robbins who asks the tough questions we have softball guys like Denton, OMD & a few other randoms.


I haven't lived in Orlando in 20 years so the only media are internet guys and not radio commentators. I think this has the handiwork of Alex Martins- I can see him and the rest of the Magic thin skinned clown show threatening anyone being critical.
OMD is basically like a North Korean media outlet. Unbelievable the puff pieces they constantly put out.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VII: Where do we go from here? 

Post#527 » by MagicFan4Lyfe » Tue Feb 9, 2021 3:46 pm

MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
basketballRob wrote:I always wonder if Vuc wasn't here if he'd just be another Alex Len.

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He’s a nice piece but he won’t be THE piece for many teams. He’ll finish his career in Orlando because we’ll continue to pay for the player he is knowing we won’t get anything close if he leaves.

Not his fault the FO is terrible at acquiring talent and putting a team together.


Put Vuc on a real playoff team/contender (not the fake a$$ treadmill garbage we are) - I think we will all be regretting letting him go. He is a solid #2 or #3 on a contender not the main piece for a franchise. Just sucks we have not been able to surround him with the talent he deserves.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VII: Where do we go from here? 

Post#528 » by pepe1991 » Tue Feb 9, 2021 3:50 pm

MagicFan4Lyfe wrote:https://orlandomagicdaily.com/2021/02/07/orlando-magic-must-still-build-and-grow-to-make-lottery-trip-temporary/

The goal — with the team’s high payroll — was to one day be able to flip players for the kind of star players that would tie the whole project together with the players Weltman has drafted.

- the draft picks have been ok and either you play Bamba or you admit you blew that pick and move on.

"Orlando will not see a complete teardown as ideal. The team will stick to believing it can make the playoffs in 2022 again. And that should be the team’s focus and goal"

- I think this guy must be Weltman's son. WTF is the point of just barely squeezing into the playoffs? WTF is this madness? WTF is wrong with this team and front office? I swear this must be some sort of master play by Devos family and Martins to run the team to the ground and no one cares so they can relocate to a bigger market.

WHY DO I STILL FOLLOW THIS GARBAGE ORGANIZATION???


He is basically beatwriter, in order to get access to lockerroom (that he does have ) , Philip pretty much puts positive spin at vritually everything. But you must understand that's not suprising. Somebody who writes for team for living probably has lot of friends inside organisation who's life depends on job they are holding now.

That's why i don't get why people get so worked up about articles in general. They always blow in 2 directions, clickbaits / negative twist or positive twist. It's almsot impossible to find any major page that does not have agenda and angle.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VII: Where do we go from here? 

Post#529 » by pepe1991 » Tue Feb 9, 2021 3:59 pm

MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
MagicFan4Lyfe wrote:https://orlandomagicdaily.com/2021/02/07/orlando-magic-must-still-build-and-grow-to-make-lottery-trip-temporary/

The goal — with the team’s high payroll — was to one day be able to flip players for the kind of star players that would tie the whole project together with the players Weltman has drafted.

- the draft picks have been ok and either you play Bamba or you admit you blew that pick and move on.

"Orlando will not see a complete teardown as ideal. The team will stick to believing it can make the playoffs in 2022 again. And that should be the team’s focus and goal"

- I think this guy must be Weltman's son. WTF is the point of just barely squeezing into the playoffs? WTF is this madness? WTF is wrong with this team and front office? I swear this must be some sort of master play by Devos family and Martins to run the team to the ground and no one cares so they can relocate to a bigger market.

WHY DO I STILL FOLLOW THIS GARBAGE ORGANIZATION???


Has to pump sunshine or else OMD loses credentials. If you haven't been following who use to cover the Magic and now who doesn't it makes sense. Anez & Nick G use to have all the Magic game coverage and talk tons of Magic stuff. The last 3 years they started getting very critical and somewhat sassy with how the Magic were being run and boom they got all Magic coverage "randomly" taken away.

Orlando media is so freaking lame and soft its a joke. Outside of maybe Robbins who asks the tough questions we have softball guys like Denton, OMD & a few other randoms.


What? You don't enjoy when rookie is asked questions like " isn't playing for Orlando Magic your life long dream and aren't you ready to take Magic to championship and you to hall of fame"

and you get that 19 y.o. kid looking like
Image

Image

expecting anything but garbage pandering and sunshine and rainbows from anybody that works for or around any nba team is laughable. NBA teams are runned like communist parties, you are for them or agianst them and bunch of yes men's that put thumbs up for every decision "boss" makes. Regardless how stupid it is. For crying out loud, imagine how many people saw white board for Garino picture, and tell me with straight face nobody had enough brain to say "dudes, you have your trade ideas in a room, why is player even taken in this room and i hope you know you can't publish it". Probably 20 people saw it and thought about it, but nobody wanted to get in trouble for saying, so it ended up on internet. :crazy:
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VII: Where do we go from here? 

Post#530 » by Def Swami » Tue Feb 9, 2021 4:23 pm

PRP is generally well-informed and does more research into the team than most around here. I read that article and don't really object to anything he says. I actually agree with the take. If you read the full article, it's mostly lockstep with what we want. He's arguing for the team to prioritize developing young players and trading some vets to facilitate that. But, that the team should try to get back to more meaningful basketball in '21-'22 once our team is healthy again.

Yes, even the trade deadline and offseason should be focused on how to set the team up for more success in the 2022 season and re-establish the base the team originally hoped to grow from.

Nobody should view a potential lottery as anything more than a detour. If that is what it comes to.

The team should still have its bigger picture in view. And if that means shifting a few players to better support the team’s final vision in a trade or slowly shifting rotations to reflect this vision for the future, that is what it means.

What the Magic should not do is simply sell off players just for the sake of change. Like was clear this offseason, every move should have some purpose behind it to help the team get better.

And it should be done with the expectation the team will return to the postseason next year.


I was saying this before the season started. This season was always going to be a grind given the absence of Isaac, COVID protocols, lack of practice, lack of training camp, etc. Then Fultz goes down, and then Weltman and Hammond were gifted a get out of jail free card with the a potential top 5 lottery pick. Get the pick, get our team healthy, and re-up for '21-'22.

This is what the Grizzlies did in '18-'19. They traded away some vets, prioritized developing their young players, kept trying to build good habits, naturally sucked into 9th best odds, and flew up in the lottery to #2 to get Ja Morant. Then, they play .500 basketball the next season and make it to the play-in game. Now they have a real player to build around for the 8 years and some nice young assets. They're set up for the future.

It's unrealistic to expect a small market team to tank for multiple seasons on in. The Magic are never going to do that after what Hennigan did. The team lost money, TV ratings, and overall fan interest. That's why the idea of a lottery this season is painful to management and ownership. It's not just the Magic. Other small market teams can't afford to be bad on purpose. Tanking in '21-'22 is never in the cards. But, this is the perfect season and scenario to take advantage of it.

A lot of that has been put on hold because of injuries. It does seem like the Magic are going to have to make some moves at the deadline both to free up time for younger players and to set the team up for its future.

After Mohamed Bamba’s impressive fourth-quarter in Saturday’s game against the Chicago Bulls, it is getting harder to justify not playing him. Khem Birch has played well but his game would fit better on a team with a settled rotation and solid players around him.

This is a team that needs impact playmakers throughout the roster. And no doubt Bamba has that potential. Seeing if he can reach those heights is vital to the team’s development and future planning.

But the point is that it would be a move that would help set the table for the 2022 season. That is what the purpose of this season is quickly becoming.

I don't think anyone would disagree with PRP's point here. The team should trade away some veterans and prioritize developing Anthony, Okeke, and Bamba, and getting them ready for '21-'22. That will naturally lead to top 5 lottery odds. There's no reason to not trade pending free agents Fournier and Birch. We're otherwise just wasting assets.

It'll involve some serious luck, but with a lost season, I'm hoping the Magic find their Ja Morant in the draft. I'll be more than happy to get back to the playoffs with a player of that caliber on our team for the next 8 years.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VII: Where do we go from here? 

Post#531 » by Blue_and_Whte » Tue Feb 9, 2021 4:44 pm

basketballRob wrote:I always wonder if Vuc wasn't here if he'd just be another Alex Len.

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This is the dumbest thing I’ve read today. I’ll take the hit, it needs to be said.
tell you what if that’s the case then Mo would be out of the league since he can’t even get minutes on a bad team.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VII: Where do we go from here? 

Post#532 » by VFX » Tue Feb 9, 2021 5:01 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:People pay way too much attention what pages like ringer are saying.
That's same Ringer who had article " Harris or Gordon" and drooled over Gordon. Harris ended up having almost 4 years in a row with 20 ppg, 7 rebounds ,3 assists with <56% TS.

In 2019, Ringer had " Are we sure the Magic won't make a leap"
https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/8/21/20825766/are-we-sure-orlando-magic



You would thought they were talking about young Tracy, not at that point 5 years pro, who peaked at 17ppg and below average efficiency (53% TS).

There is no reason why any sports site needs to "teach " you what you can see with your healthy eyes.


Except people were talking about the Bamba stuff before the Ringer even wrote anything. They just reaffirmed what 90% of us were already thinking.


Bamba wasn't able to play. First he did not show up for preseason, wasn't ready for season, than he had back issue with hit in back in a game, than he got back into covid 19 protocol as contact.
He returnd in active rotation late in January.
People just don't like facts, rather pretend he has been out for 6 months because coach hates him. In reality, he got like 12 DNP-CDs in his whole career.

You can argue playing 30 min will somehow make him better, i would argue playing 30 min won't make you any better than playnig 10-15 min.
Tobias Harris averaged 11 min a game in 42 games of rookie year, lower than Bamba.
In second year he averaged 11,6 mpg for Bucks (4,9 ppg) and second day after a trade was ready to put up 36 mpg (17 ppg ) with Orlando. Can you argue he didn't develop in rookie year because he wasn't getting 30mpg? Ehh...

Joel Embiid didn't even play first 2 nba seasons and in third he looked like allstar.
Noel and Jah averaged +30 mpg during his 2 years off, and yet, Embiid was better in first second of nba action than Jah and Noel ever.

Players do have some learning curve during in game action, but most of the development happends behind close doors and at practice and indvidiual workouts during offtime.
But fans always get to most basic- chicken-egg argument "doesn't play because of it he can't develop = doesn't develop that's why he doesn't play"

:dontknow:

Issue is level of talent, most young players that "need lot of time" simply -don't have that much talent to being with. Word "project" was literally brought up by Sam Presti after he drafted complete bust Hasheem Thabeet to deflect critics from him.

I've said more lot of times that i don't care if Bamba gets 18-25 mpg a game, i just don't trust his body nor i belive he can handle that loud, also since he is 3rd year player who turns 23 in 3 months i don't think he will ever be anything more than part time starter / backup /third string C so i don't care if they DNP him for rest of a year. I'm done developing future backups .


He was cleared for full contact December 16th.

He logged his first minutes January 8th. Since then, he’s only played 10+mpg twice until last game in Chicago with 12 minutes.

Khem Birch must be killing it in practice.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VII: Where do we go from here? 

Post#533 » by pepe1991 » Tue Feb 9, 2021 7:05 pm

MagicMatic wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
Except people were talking about the Bamba stuff before the Ringer even wrote anything. They just reaffirmed what 90% of us were already thinking.


Bamba wasn't able to play. First he did not show up for preseason, wasn't ready for season, than he had back issue with hit in back in a game, than he got back into covid 19 protocol as contact.
He returnd in active rotation late in January.
People just don't like facts, rather pretend he has been out for 6 months because coach hates him. In reality, he got like 12 DNP-CDs in his whole career.

You can argue playing 30 min will somehow make him better, i would argue playing 30 min won't make you any better than playnig 10-15 min.
Tobias Harris averaged 11 min a game in 42 games of rookie year, lower than Bamba.
In second year he averaged 11,6 mpg for Bucks (4,9 ppg) and second day after a trade was ready to put up 36 mpg (17 ppg ) with Orlando. Can you argue he didn't develop in rookie year because he wasn't getting 30mpg? Ehh...

Joel Embiid didn't even play first 2 nba seasons and in third he looked like allstar.
Noel and Jah averaged +30 mpg during his 2 years off, and yet, Embiid was better in first second of nba action than Jah and Noel ever.

Players do have some learning curve during in game action, but most of the development happends behind close doors and at practice and indvidiual workouts during offtime.
But fans always get to most basic- chicken-egg argument "doesn't play because of it he can't develop = doesn't develop that's why he doesn't play"

:dontknow:

Issue is level of talent, most young players that "need lot of time" simply -don't have that much talent to being with. Word "project" was literally brought up by Sam Presti after he drafted complete bust Hasheem Thabeet to deflect critics from him.

I've said more lot of times that i don't care if Bamba gets 18-25 mpg a game, i just don't trust his body nor i belive he can handle that loud, also since he is 3rd year player who turns 23 in 3 months i don't think he will ever be anything more than part time starter / backup /third string C so i don't care if they DNP him for rest of a year. I'm done developing future backups .


He was cleared for full contact December 16th.

He logged his first minutes January 8th. Since then, he’s only played 10+mpg twice until last game in Chicago with 12 minutes.

Khem Birch must be killing it in practice.


Flat out false info

December 31, 2020 05:00 PM
Magic's Mo Bamba: Does two-on-two work
by RotoWire Staff | RotoWire
Bamba went through two-on-two work Thursday, Dan Savage of OrlandoMagic.com reports.

Bamba has been cleared for full-contact work but has only made his way up to two-on-two work as of Thursday. He's making progress, but it's unclear when he might be able to take the court. He's not officially being listed on the injury report.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/players/playerpage/2893236/mo-bamba
list of source


January 14, 2021 04:08 PM
Magic's Mo Bamba: Out Friday
by RotoWire Staff | RotoWire
Bamba is out Friday against the Celtics due to non-team contact tracing and his availability beyond Friday's game will be determined by the league, Roy Parry of the Orlando Sentinel reports.

Parry notes that Bamba does not have COVID-19, but contact tracing measures still need to be completed, which is why the center is out Friday. While he's sidelined, Khem Birch should see more backup center minutes.

it's funny how little bit of FACTS change perceptions of lies made up to make a point , isn't it? But who needs facts nowdays

It's hilarious actually. All this outrage, all this bi*** and moaning and crying like a bunch of ****s is literally based on 5 games sample size and 3 DNP-CDs.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VII: Where do we go from here? 

Post#534 » by pepe1991 » Tue Feb 9, 2021 7:07 pm

Blue_and_Whte wrote:
basketballRob wrote:I always wonder if Vuc wasn't here if he'd just be another Alex Len.

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This is the dumbest thing I’ve read today. I’ll take the hit, it needs to be said.
tell you what if that’s the case then Mo would be out of the league since he can’t even get minutes on a bad team.


Don't know why even bother ? Reading his comments comes off as reading angry tweets of 6th grader during first hit of puberty after googling " " your mom lied to you when she said you are most beautiful boy".
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VII: Where do we go from here? 

Post#535 » by Bensational » Tue Feb 9, 2021 7:10 pm

The idea of a quick lottery trip and then a return to playoff basketball is good and makes sense, as long as we’re using this chance to improve the balance of the team and roster.

Returning the exact same roster minus some bench players who have been replaced by other bench players won’t be enough change unless our draft pick is the next Luka.

There aren’t many options on movable players either since Isaac and Fultz won’t be traded, Vuc is the present cornerstone of what WeHam are doing, and most of the other players won’t garner a high impact player.

Anthony and Chuma look like good long term pieces. Even if Bamba gets minutes and continues to show improved play, I still think we should move him since I don’t see Vuc being moved by this FO.

There’s the good chance we fall out of a top 5 pick just from the lottery odds. We’re going to want assets to be able to move up and snag a premier player for once instead of being passive. Bamba, Anthony and Chuma are the only players with the potential to become + value in a move up trade. Or giving up future FRPs.

Vuc
Isaac/Chuma/Aminu
?
?
Anthony/Fultz

With (hopefully) a top 3 pick + Bamba + Gordon + Ross as trade bait to improve the wings.

I don’t think Fournier will risk coming back after this losing season. He wants to win now, and may not trust this team’s ability to do that. So that could be another asset lost for nothing, unless we move him this season.

That looks pretty dire above but it doesn’t account for other potential moves. Ie, if we could swing Birch for Shamet, or Fournier for a future late FRP. Even an Aminu for cap space deal would help a lot.

Point is, we need more than a single lottery pick addition to push this team to the next level unless that pick is Luka level. WeHam need to be more proactive than just waiting for injuries to heal.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VII: Where do we go from here? 

Post#536 » by MartinsIzAfraud » Tue Feb 9, 2021 7:31 pm

Bensational wrote:The idea of a quick lottery trip and then a return to playoff basketball is good and makes sense, as long as we’re using this chance to improve the balance of the team and roster.

Returning the exact same roster minus some bench players who have been replaced by other bench players won’t be enough change unless our draft pick is the next Luka.

There aren’t many options on movable players either since Isaac and Fultz won’t be traded, Vuc is the present cornerstone of what WeHam are doing, and most of the other players won’t garner a high impact player.

Anthony and Chuma look like good long term pieces. Even if Bamba gets minutes and continues to show improved play, I still think we should move him since I don’t see Vuc being moved by this FO.

There’s the good chance we fall out of a top 5 pick just from the lottery odds. We’re going to want assets to be able to move up and snag a premier player for once instead of being passive. Bamba, Anthony and Chuma are the only players with the potential to become + value in a move up trade. Or giving up future FRPs.

Vuc
Isaac/Chuma/Aminu
?
?
Anthony/Fultz

With (hopefully) a top 3 pick + Bamba + Gordon + Ross as trade bait to improve the wings.

I don’t think Fournier will risk coming back after this losing season. He wants to win now, and may not trust this team’s ability to do that. So that could be another asset lost for nothing, unless we move him this season.

That looks pretty dire above but it doesn’t account for other potential moves. Ie, if we could swing Birch for Shamet, or Fournier for a future late FRP. Even an Aminu for cap space deal would help a lot.

Point is, we need more than a single lottery pick addition to push this team to the next level unless that pick is Luka level. WeHam need to be more proactive than just waiting for injuries to heal.


Nailed it. Thinking any of the vets would return value is laughable. This FO has shown they’re ok holding vets to stay put as a ceiling 8th team.

This team is far far away from a top 5 seed even if healthy. Just adding a top 5 pick to this roster doesn’t move the needle. Tired of hearing just give this team 1 more year.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VII: Where do we go from here? 

Post#537 » by Skybox » Wed Feb 10, 2021 10:40 am

So when does the “Fire Cliff” thread start...I actually like Cliff and think he performed admirably in the job he was hired to do...but the job directive (should have) changed with the key injuries. This team is at a turning point...Vuc in his prime but hitting 30, Evan likely pricing himself out, AG being redundant with Isaac, overpaid secondary role players, the Bamba fiasco...this mismatched, Ill fitting, fiscally irresponsible, gimpy roster demands a major renovation but the guy driving the bus only knows one route and that’s squeezing every drop out of the “sure things” to get one more win...time for a fresh face , whose looking at what we can be in a couple years not playing as if his coaching life was pass/fail, live/die based on only the final score of the very next game. Seems inevitable that Vuc will go down next with his excessive minutes and burden...I really hope not. It’s not Cliff’s fault that half his team is made of glass but it’s got to be realistically acknowledged that we are going nowhere this season and beating the s**t out of our best player while Bamba rots is either just stubborn, stupid, or both.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VII: Where do we go from here? 

Post#538 » by j-ragg » Wed Feb 10, 2021 11:54 am

Cliff will probably get canned when it should be Weltman/Hammond for acquiring a bunch of injury prone prospects with extremely questionable fit then act shocked when no one is healthy and the roster doesn’t make sense.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VII: Where do we go from here? 

Post#539 » by Skybox » Wed Feb 10, 2021 1:31 pm

I don't know about blaming injuries on WeHam. I also think they've done a decent job of stockpiling OK talent...BUT they have done nothing to maximize any value. Drafting or developing redundancy is ok if you then flip it into what you need. They are stuck in mud. They do nothing of consequence and call it "patience".
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VII: Where do we go from here? 

Post#540 » by Gomagic44 » Wed Feb 10, 2021 2:35 pm

Doing a decent job at gathering OK talent should be a reason for a pink slip in a professional league.

Who the hell wants luke warm and average leaders?
Skybox wrote:I don't know about blaming injuries on WeHam. I also think they've done a decent job of stockpiling OK talent...BUT they have done nothing to maximize any value. Drafting or developing redundancy is ok if you then flip it into what you need. They are stuck in mud. They do nothing of consequence and call it "patience".


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