Does Grant's Jump Make Weaver's Off-Season Moves a Net Positive?

[Laimbeer]

I thought it was pretty clearly negative initially, but Grant now seems to have great value - whether we keep him or not. There is talk among neutral fans that he is probably worth multiple firsts, and not low multiple firsts. A proposal of two firsts from the Celtics was largely rejected as too little.

Or if keeping him, we've got an excellent player on a very good deal.

[Billl]

Free agency is definitely turning into a positive. Grant and Jackson are overperforming and even Plumlee is playing near his contract. The stretch stuff is still baffling though. Bey and stewart are looking like real value picks. If it turns out we blew a top pick on a complete bust?

[vege]

Not even close, I just explained in another thread, I won't make the same post again, but his net is way negative so far.

[Moses ShamMoses]

Too early to know, and much like SVG's tenure, success or failure will depend on how the draft picks turn out.

[Manocad]

The Pistons won’t win a championship this year so clearly Weaver f***ed up big time.

[Pharaoh]

Think the direction we were headed was made clear on Draft night and then free agency (& the finalising of those trades) made a lot of us scratch our heads and wonder WTF.

I'd like to believe that Weaver - apparently viewed league wide as THE up and coming future GM - actually did his homework, despite my opinions of some of our moves.

Most GMs don't get 5 months to prepare for their first draft or free agency period. Weaver got that!

Not gonna rehash every transaction cause some are still weird to me but it does seem that he deliberately put us in this position.

Given the treadmill we've been on for a decade I'm content to ride this out for a while and give him the benefit of the doubt

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[chrbal]

I’m not sure how you have this active an offseason to set up a rebuild, but it happened. They should have offered Wood more money, but grant’s play so far has been good. But I still think they overpaid for him.

I also wouldn’t have waived and stretched Dedmons contract, I get why it was done. I still don’t think I would have. But I probably wouldn’t have signed Jahlil or traded tony Bradley (he takes Jahlils spot).

When it’s all said and done, all these guys (not the rookie contracts) are basically off the books in 2-3 years .

[DBC10]

The jumping of hoops with the waive/stretch spree Weaver did seems awkward at best

But I don't know about multiple 1sts barring desperation, but he's definitely a positive asset which is more than what we can say in the last 5 years or so of a FA

[ByeByeDre]

OKC has 17 first round picks in the next six seasons, a bunch of second rounders as well, $30 in cap space now, and only $38 million committed for next season. They are mentioned as a trade partner often because they have the cap space to facilitate a deal.

The Pistons have six first rounders in the next six seasons, currently locked up, less than that number of second rounders, no cap space, and $109 million committed for next season. They might have the worst roster in the league, and have no financial flexibility.

I like Grant, but I have no idea why he’s a Piston. And I doubt Weaver will trade him because he has an ego and Grant is his boy. As it stands, I think Weaver will go down as the worst GM in Pistons history by the time all is said and done. This league is about asset management, and Weaver is terrible at it.

[DetroitDon15]

OKC has 17 first round picks in the next six seasons, a bunch of second rounders as well, $30 in cap space now, and only $38 million committed for next season. They are mentioned as a trade partner often because they have the cap space to facilitate a deal.

The Pistons have six first rounders in the next six seasons, currently locked up, less than that number of second rounders, no cap space, and $109 million committed for next season. They might have the worst roster in the league, and have no financial flexibility.

I like Grant, but I have no idea why he’s a Piston. And I doubt Weaver will trade him because he has an ego and Grant is his boy. As it stands, I think Weaver will go down as the worst GM in Pistons history by the time all is said and done. This league is about asset management, and Weaver is terrible at it.

I agree that the Grant deal has played out very well.The rest is questionable at best. My biggest question mark was the sign and trade of Wood. Attaching a first round pick to make such a deal was brutal. I won’t even start on the pick/Ariza part.

The over picture is the following: This team is dead locked financially next year. Hayes has looked like that he is a G-Leaguer. Seku can’t even see the floor and is terrible when he does. The contract stretching has made no sense. I don’t see any upside the next two to three years are for this franchise.

[MrBigShot]

The two positives we have going for us right now is that Grant is really good and we are in a position to get a high lotto pick. Undervaluing and failing to sign Wood is a huge red flag as to Weaver's ability to assess talent. Athletic, efficient 20ppg+ scoring bigs that can rebound and hit threes are perfect for today's league. We outbid ourselves for Plumlee, but he's been okay. Far too early to give up on him but so far Hayes hasn't looked nba caliber. Bey looks like he will have a nice career as a 3&D role player.

All in all I still think Weaver is pretty clueless. I hope our next pick in the draft ends up being a stud, because otherwise I don't see his tenure going very well here.

[zeebneeb]

The usual suspects are like a broken record of doom and gloom instead of acknowledging that Grant was a homerun. Tiresome to say the least.

As a whole I have been pleasantly surprised, so far. That obviously could change by the end of the season, but for right now, Grant homerun. Jackson pleasantly surprised, Plumlee shocked that he is even as close to that contract as he is, Bey is an excellent pick, and Stewart is slightly above average. Hayes incomplete. Wright and Ellington are also fine, and average signings.

In what I thought was a bad offseason, but hopeful, has gone past my expectations by the Grant signing, Jackson, and Bey as the headliners. The one huge negative is the Wood debacle. It still puzzles me. This season all comes down to the draft at the end of this year, and Hayes future development.

So yes, net positive.

[Pharaoh]

The only reason I can see to let Wood go is that if we have him here instead of Plumlee we're easily a 5-8 seed.

Wood & Grant as a one two punch? That's a dangerous combo.

Stewart handles the rough stuff inside, maybe we keep Bradley for depth?

Wright, Ellington, & Jackson duo handle the guard spots with Lee...

Yeah I think we're a playoff team with Wood & Grant. Might never get to the ECF or even the 2nd round unless we score big in free agency or in the Draft but we'd easily compete for a low seed.

As much as we're used to that I'd hate to do that again for another 10 years

The usual suspects are like a broken record of doom and gloom instead of acknowledging that Grant was a homerun. Tiresome to say the least.

As a whole I have been pleasantly surprised, so far. That obviously could change by the end of the season, but for right now, Grant homerun. Jackson pleasantly surprised, Plumlee shocked that he is even as close to that contract as he is, Bey is an excellent pick, and Stewart is slightly above average. Hayes incomplete. Wright and Ellington are also fine, and average signings.

In what I thought was a bad offseason, but hopeful, has gone past my expectations by the Grant signing, Jackson, and Bey as the headliners. The one huge negative is the Wood debacle. It still puzzles me. This season all comes down to the draft at the end of this year, and Hayes future development.

So yes, net positive.

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[Mr Peanut]

I had my reservations about Weaver after the off-season moves, but I've been pleasantly surprised since and I don't see how you can't consider his moves so far as a net positive when you list them out.

The really good:
1. Jerami Grant- absolute stud and likely all-star on a reasonable contract, absolutely none of us expected this

The good:
1. Saddiq Bey - already a quality 3&D player and still a lot of potential
2. Isaiah Stewart - hustle interior player who is young enough to blossom into something special
3. Josh Jackson - reclamation project who is panning out nicely
4. Delon Wright - serviceable PG on a reasonable contract
5. Wayne Ellington - can surely be flipped for a second round pick or two at the deadline

The neutral/incomplete:
1. Mason Plumlee - slight overpay but has been solid so far and definitely tradeable if need be
2. Killian Hayes - far too early to make a judgement really

The bad:
1. Christian Wood - clearly a mistake to let him go. Silver lining of this move is we are legitimately bad enough to get a top lottery pick; having Wood definitely puts us in contention for a playoff spot, otherwise late lottery again. Also the future 1st round pick we traded wasn't tacked onto Wood to begin with - that pick was to get Isaiah Stewart and once it became clear Wood was going to sign with the Rockets Weaver used the S&T to tighten the protections on the pick (he was never going to get it back)
2. Trading four second round picks to offload Kennard and get Bey (although picking up second round picks again through trades/taking on some salary isn't overly difficult)
3. The waive and stretches were head-scratchers but it's not like another NBA team has picked up Dedmon or Zhaire Smith so clearly Weaver isn't the only GM to think they sucked
4. Giving away Bruce Brown for what is likely to be a mid to late second round pick; albeit I doubt Weaver would have wanted to pay him this off-season

[Manocad]

I had my reservations about Weaver after the off-season moves, but I've been pleasantly surprised since and I don't see how you can't consider his moves so far as a net positive when you list them out.

The really good:
1. Jerami Grant- absolute stud and likely all-star on a reasonable contract, absolutely none of us expected this

The good:
1. Saddiq Bey - already a quality 3&D player and still a lot of potential
2. Isaiah Stewart - hustle interior player who is young enough to blossom into something special
3. Josh Jackson - reclamation project who is panning out nicely
4. Delon Wright - serviceable PG on a reasonable contract
5. Wayne Ellington - can surely be flipped for a second round pick or two at the deadline

The neutral/incomplete:
1. Mason Plumlee - slight overpay but has been solid so far and definitely tradeable if need be
2. Killian Hayes - far too early to make a judgement really

The bad:
1. Christian Wood - clearly a mistake to let him go. Silver lining of this move is we are legitimately bad enough to get a top lottery pick; having Wood definitely puts us in contention for a playoff spot, otherwise late lottery again. Also the future 1st round pick we traded wasn't tacked onto Wood to begin with - that pick was to get Isaiah Stewart and once it became clear Wood was going to sign with the Rockets Weaver used the S&T to tighten the protections on the pick (he was never going to get it back)
2. Trading four second round picks to offload Kennard and get Bey (although picking up second round picks again through trades/taking on some salary isn't overly difficult)
3. The waive and stretches were head-scratchers but it's not like another NBA team has picked up Dedmon or Zhaire Smith so clearly Weaver isn't the only GM to think they sucked
4. Giving away Bruce Brown for what is likely to be a mid to late second round pick; albeit I doubt Weaver would have wanted to pay him this off-season

I agree with all of this except for a couple of points...first, if Bey continues along the path it looks like he's on, probably not a star but certainly can be a solid role player for a good team, and Kennard continues to have knee issues, people will be thanking Weaver for making that deal. At the very least, Bey is a multi-dimensional player whereas Kennard can shoot, and that's it. Second, Bruce Brown is looking like a career bench guard which is fine, but that's not a position of need for the Pistons right now. If that second round pick turns into a player of even equal value who fills a gap better relative to what the Pistons are trying to build, that's also a win.

[flow]

I had my reservations about Weaver after the off-season moves, but I've been pleasantly surprised since and I don't see how you can't consider his moves so far as a net positive when you list them out.

The really good:
1. Jerami Grant- absolute stud and likely all-star on a reasonable contract, absolutely none of us expected this

The good:
1. Saddiq Bey - already a quality 3&D player and still a lot of potential
2. Isaiah Stewart - hustle interior player who is young enough to blossom into something special
3. Josh Jackson - reclamation project who is panning out nicely
4. Delon Wright - serviceable PG on a reasonable contract
5. Wayne Ellington - can surely be flipped for a second round pick or two at the deadline

The neutral/incomplete:
1. Mason Plumlee - slight overpay but has been solid so far and definitely tradeable if need be
2. Killian Hayes - far too early to make a judgement really

The bad:
1. Christian Wood - clearly a mistake to let him go. Silver lining of this move is we are legitimately bad enough to get a top lottery pick; having Wood definitely puts us in contention for a playoff spot, otherwise late lottery again. Also the future 1st round pick we traded wasn't tacked onto Wood to begin with - that pick was to get Isaiah Stewart and once it became clear Wood was going to sign with the Rockets Weaver used the S&T to tighten the protections on the pick (he was never going to get it back)
2. Trading four second round picks to offload Kennard and get Bey (although picking up second round picks again through trades/taking on some salary isn't overly difficult)
3. The waive and stretches were head-scratchers but it's not like another NBA team has picked up Dedmon or Zhaire Smith so clearly Weaver isn't the only GM to think they sucked
4. Giving away Bruce Brown for what is likely to be a mid to late second round pick; albeit I doubt Weaver would have wanted to pay him this off-season

One thing I'd change - If it's not too early to put Bey & Stewart in the 'good' column, then it can't be too early to put Hayes in the 'bad' column.

.

[bstein14]

All his FA signings were good. It's unfortunate he let Wood go, but everyone he brought in has been solid for us for the price paid. Even Okafor is fine for a minimum salary contract 3rd string center. He is better than when SVG signed Boban to be our 3rd string center for $7 million per season.

The trade for Delon Wright has also been solid for us. He's a decent rotation player for sure and he, like Grant, is showing he can do more than we bargained for when given a bit of a bigger role.

Rumor was if we got a top 4 pick that we liked Ball.... When we fell to 7 it was leaked that we gave Williams a promise. Hayes was likely a plan C for us and its clear the better plan C would have been Haliburton who was clearly NBA ready with a great shot and very high AST to TO ratio in college it was clear he also had a high IQ. The only knock was his athleticism and possible lack up upside. Haliburton would have been the safe pick but one thing is clear with Weaver he does put a high value on athleticism hoping players can develop a lot of the other skills they may be lacking in.

Overall Weaver's offseason has moved up to a B for me, largely on the play of Grant, Plumlee, Jackson, Ellington, and Wright.

The other great sign, it was the game against GS Rose played 17 minutes and went 3-11 and really played poor defense I think it was clear that management/coaching thought it was in the best interest to move on from him and let the young guys play. That is a huge move in moving forward with this culture shift.

[NYPiston]

We won't know if it was a positive for at least a few years because Weaver is building this from the ground up but the Grant signing is a big positive thus far and even through the record is poor, the team culture seems to be improving with this team battling every game.

It's still a bad team because they don't have the talent to match a lot of other teams but it's better than the 6-18 record would indicate. They lose a lot but they make the opposition work hard for their wins.

My big frustration this season is the lack of young player development. Hayes went down so nothing can be done about that but Bey regressed after a solid start and lost minutes as a result (not unexpected for a rookie but a little disappointing) and Sekou is a complete non factor and is fast approaching bust territory at least here with the Pistons.
I haven't watched a lot of the games but it does appear that Stewart is coming along nicely so there's one positive.

I don't know, I was hoping for more growth from the young guys and it still appears to be a team almost entirely driven by veterans even though the veterans play a more sound team game than the previous group of veterans. It could change but it's largely been a wasted development year unfortunately. I can only call this process a positive when he see young player development so it's an incomplete for me.

[Manocad]

Man, I suspect some of the people here are not NFL fans. I couldn't imagine how they'd react watching a rookie QB taken in the first round sit on the sideline with a clipboard in his hand the entire season, which is not terribly common anymore but is still not extraordinary.

"Zero development! Total bust! Wasted pick!"

It's on one hand comical and on another sad watching people call out players for being busts because they're not on their way to the All Star game by their second season in the league.

[Snakebites]

For me this is a complex question because in my mind the original saving grace was the draft moves, and as of right now it’s not clear if we even got guys who are going to be key pieces down the line.

Grant being better than I thought may simply cancel out those disappointments.

It’s too early to judge the draft but we haven’t gotten much in the way of positive returns there. Hayes looked bad relative to other rookies, the jury is out on Bey, and Stewart looks like a career backup.