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NBA Trade Thread # 3

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Re: NBA Trade Thread # 3 

Post#261 » by Red8911 » Wed Feb 10, 2021 7:23 pm

Kukoc-Lauri wrote:It doesent really matter what is my opinion or yours on trade value of Lavine and White, but my educated guess formed on reading interwievs with Nba gm-s,scouts and insiders and listening podcasts with Nba personell is that Lavine is overated by majority of Bulls fans and the same goes with White. On other hand Markkanen and Carter have much better reputation in Nba circles than on Bulls forum. Whatever Hawks are looking for Collins, i am posittive that they are not looking for Coby White, even in theirs worst nightmares.

Half of the NBA is interested in trading for Lavine and he’s putting up all star numbers but bulls fans are over rating him? Cmon now, he’s a legit star. Coby is another story.
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Re: NBA Trade Thread # 3 

Post#262 » by gobullschi » Wed Feb 10, 2021 8:16 pm

Red8911 wrote:
Kukoc-Lauri wrote:It doesent really matter what is my opinion or yours on trade value of Lavine and White, but my educated guess formed on reading interwievs with Nba gm-s,scouts and insiders and listening podcasts with Nba personell is that Lavine is overated by majority of Bulls fans and the same goes with White. On other hand Markkanen and Carter have much better reputation in Nba circles than on Bulls forum. Whatever Hawks are looking for Collins, i am posittive that they are not looking for Coby White, even in theirs worst nightmares.

Half of the NBA is interested in trading for Lavine and he’s putting up all star numbers but bulls fans are over rating him? Cmon now, he’s a legit star. Coby is another story.


The Bulls could always keep Coby White and then offer a max contract to Collins instead. I know people are down on Coby White but he’s very young and learning how to play the most difficult position in the NBA. I don’t think his value is as bad as some people think, but he’s definitely lost value from before the season started.

John Collins is only 23 years old and shoots at a higher clip than Markkanen. I’m not a huge fan of locking up big money to big men, but there aren’t a lot of options out there.
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Re: NBA Trade Thread # 3 

Post#263 » by Kukoc-Lauri » Wed Feb 10, 2021 8:45 pm

Red8911 wrote:
Kukoc-Lauri wrote:It doesent really matter what is my opinion or yours on trade value of Lavine and White, but my educated guess formed on reading interwievs with Nba gm-s,scouts and insiders and listening podcasts with Nba personell is that Lavine is overated by majority of Bulls fans and the same goes with White. On other hand Markkanen and Carter have much better reputation in Nba circles than on Bulls forum. Whatever Hawks are looking for Collins, i am posittive that they are not looking for Coby White, even in theirs worst nightmares.

Half of the NBA is interested in trading for Lavine and he’s putting up all star numbers but bulls fans are over rating him? Cmon now, he’s a legit star. Coby is another story.
i mean some people expects Harden or Holiday type of package for Lavine, or that his value in trade is equal Beal's or Simmons one. I would love for that to be true, but check every tread about Lavine, nobody is thinking about given same assets for Lavine like for Beal,Simmons,Holiday. There is wide spread belief that his ppg would dropp around 20 for every contender and that his scoring doesnt impact winning basketball. I am fine with Lavine as third guy or second offensive wheapon but what is point for Bulls to pay 190 mil for Lavine and be border line playoff team. History teach us that best free agent in last 20 years for Bulls were Boozer and old but still productive Pau Gasol. You can compare those best ever Bulls free agents with best fa this year like Drummond and Oladipo. That team is kind a like Derozan and Aldrige Spurs. Yeah, basically i would rather trade Zach for picks and tank for two seasons.
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Re: NBA Trade Thread # 3 

Post#264 » by RoseTheFuture22 » Wed Feb 10, 2021 9:12 pm

This is a little less exciting but it could make some sense for both teams:

Bulls trade:
Porter
Temple
Kornet

Grizzlies trade:
Tyus Jones
Dieng
Kyle Anderson

We lose some shooting and also a little potential cap room next summer but get some cheap playmakers who seem like a better fit with the current core we have. Dieng is on an expiring but would be a good backup to Carter or spot starter for now. Grizz get wing depth to make a playoff push.
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Re: NBA Trade Thread # 3 

Post#265 » by Almost Retired » Wed Feb 10, 2021 10:11 pm

RoseTheFuture22 wrote:This is a little less exciting but it could make some sense for both teams:

Bulls trade:
Porter
Temple
Kornet

Grizzlies trade:
Tyus Jones
Dieng
Kyle Anderson

We lose some shooting and also a little potential cap room next summer but get some cheap playmakers who seem like a better fit with the current core we have. Dieng is on an expiring but would be a good backup to Carter or spot starter for now. Grizz get wing depth to make a playoff push.


But How could we survive losing Kornet? He's our most valuable bench warmer. :P
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Re: NBA Trade Thread # 3 

Post#266 » by WindyCityBorn » Wed Feb 10, 2021 10:18 pm

Kukoc-Lauri wrote:
Red8911 wrote:
Kukoc-Lauri wrote:It doesent really matter what is my opinion or yours on trade value of Lavine and White, but my educated guess formed on reading interwievs with Nba gm-s,scouts and insiders and listening podcasts with Nba personell is that Lavine is overated by majority of Bulls fans and the same goes with White. On other hand Markkanen and Carter have much better reputation in Nba circles than on Bulls forum. Whatever Hawks are looking for Collins, i am posittive that they are not looking for Coby White, even in theirs worst nightmares.

Half of the NBA is interested in trading for Lavine and he’s putting up all star numbers but bulls fans are over rating him? Cmon now, he’s a legit star. Coby is another story.
i mean some people expects Harden or Holiday type of package for Lavine, or that his value in trade is equal Beal's or Simmons one. I would love for that to be true, but check every tread about Lavine, nobody is thinking about given same assets for Lavine like for Beal,Simmons,Holiday. There is wide spread belief that his ppg would dropp around 20 for every contender and that his scoring doesnt impact winning basketball. I am fine with Lavine as third guy or second offensive wheapon but what is point for Bulls to pay 190 mil for Lavine and be border line playoff team. History teach us that best free agent in last 20 years for Bulls were Boozer and old but still productive Pau Gasol. You can compare those best ever Bulls free agents with best fa this year like Drummond and Oladipo. That team is kind a like Derozan and Aldrige Spurs. Yeah, basically i would rather trade Zach for picks and tank for two seasons.


We are not doing want you to do. Don’t think Donovan signed up for that and we don’t need to do it. We losing just fine anyway because our frontcourt is made of glass.
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Re: NBA Trade Thread # 3 

Post#267 » by WindyCityBorn » Wed Feb 10, 2021 10:32 pm

Kukoc-Lauri wrote:
Red8911 wrote:
Kukoc-Lauri wrote:It doesent really matter what is my opinion or yours on trade value of Lavine and White, but my educated guess formed on reading interwievs with Nba gm-s,scouts and insiders and listening podcasts with Nba personell is that Lavine is overated by majority of Bulls fans and the same goes with White. On other hand Markkanen and Carter have much better reputation in Nba circles than on Bulls forum. Whatever Hawks are looking for Collins, i am posittive that they are not looking for Coby White, even in theirs worst nightmares.

Half of the NBA is interested in trading for Lavine and he’s putting up all star numbers but bulls fans are over rating him? Cmon now, he’s a legit star. Coby is another story.
i mean some people expects Harden or Holiday type of package for Lavine, or that his value in trade is equal Beal's or Simmons one. I would love for that to be true, but check every tread about Lavine, nobody is thinking about given same assets for Lavine like for Beal,Simmons,Holiday. There is wide spread belief that his ppg would dropp around 20 for every contender and that his scoring doesnt impact winning basketball. I am fine with Lavine as third guy or second offensive wheapon but what is point for Bulls to pay 190 mil for Lavine and be border line playoff team. History teach us that best free agent in last 20 years for Bulls were Boozer and old but still productive Pau Gasol. You can compare those best ever Bulls free agents with best fa this year like Drummond and Oladipo. That team is kind a like Derozan and Aldrige Spurs. Yeah, basically i would rather trade Zach for picks and tank for two seasons.


We are not doing want you to do. Don’t think Donovan signed up for that and we don’t need to do it. We losing just fine anyway because our frontcourt is made of glass and PG stinks. We are losing naturally.
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Re: NBA Trade Thread # 3 

Post#268 » by Vickveto » Wed Feb 10, 2021 11:06 pm

Russell Westbrook
unprotected 1st

For

Lauri
Wendell
Coby white
Otto porter

The wizards need players and cap Space to keep Bradley Beal around before he demands a trade.
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Re: NBA Trade Thread # 3 

Post#269 » by WindyCityBorn » Wed Feb 10, 2021 11:12 pm

Vickveto wrote:Russell Westbrook
unprotected 1st

For

Lauri
Wendell
Coby white
Otto porter

The wizards need players and cap Space to keep Bradley Beal around before he demands a trade.


WTF would we want Westbrook? He sucks and makes $40 million per. He is NOT Chris Paul. We basically save Washington from themselves. I’m not sure that pick worth being stuck with him.
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Re: NBA Trade Thread # 3 

Post#270 » by WYO » Thu Feb 11, 2021 12:26 am

WindyCityBorn wrote:
Vickveto wrote:Russell Westbrook
unprotected 1st

For

Lauri
Wendell
Coby white
Otto porter

The wizards need players and cap Space to keep Bradley Beal around before he demands a trade.


WTF would we want Westbrook? He sucks and makes $40 million per. He is NOT Chris Paul. We basically save Washington from themselves. I’m not sure that pick worth being stuck with him.

Yep, add about 3 more picks and pick swaps along with taking Lauri out of the deal then we can talk about taking on Westbrook's contract and ball stopping style of play.
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Re: NBA Trade Thread # 3 

Post#271 » by Costa78 » Thu Feb 11, 2021 3:18 am

I get it that Coby has been struggling the past few weeks but some of you are ready to write him off for some bench warmer on another team? I think you have to give him the rest of this season before you start making conclusions. I like that Billy has been sitting him and then let him play through mistakes. That’s how you develop players,
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Re: NBA Trade Thread # 3 

Post#272 » by NecessaryEvil » Thu Feb 11, 2021 6:05 am

Lauri & Sato for Lonzo & a 2nd


G Ball / White
G Lavine / White / Valentine
F Williams / Temple / Valentine
F Young / Williams
C Carter Jr. / Gafford


Not really sure what you do about Thaddeus at this point. Could probably fetch a nice return from a contending team but we’d have NO power forwards
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Re: NBA Trade Thread # 3 

Post#273 » by Vickveto » Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:07 am

WindyCityBorn wrote:
Vickveto wrote:Russell Westbrook
unprotected 1st

For

Lauri
Wendell
Coby white
Otto porter

The wizards need players and cap Space to keep Bradley Beal around before he demands a trade.


WTF would we want Westbrook? He sucks and makes $40 million per. He is NOT Chris Paul. We basically save Washington from themselves. I’m not sure that pick worth being stuck with him.


None of our lottery picks were projected to be all stars and it doesn’t look like they’re going to be all stars I have high hope for Patrick Williams But if we have the opportunity to get to two blue chip prospects and stop missing in the lottery like the past three years on the projected elite talent. We are stuck in mediocrity we do not have a championship core. We will make the playoffs if we keep the core we have eventually but that’s about it. Two top 5 picks Patrick Williams and Zach is a brighter future. Do you want to win or stay stuck in mediocreville? We need a superstar to really compete and he’s probably not coming through free agency. Nobody is topping Brooklyn talent the next couple of seasons. but we can position ourselves our own dynasty but we need ELITE talent not Coby whites and Lauri’s and Wendell’s
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Re: NBA Trade Thread # 3 

Post#274 » by fleet » Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:11 am

Red8911 wrote:
Kukoc-Lauri wrote:It doesent really matter what is my opinion or yours on trade value of Lavine and White, but my educated guess formed on reading interwievs with Nba gm-s,scouts and insiders and listening podcasts with Nba personell is that Lavine is overated by majority of Bulls fans and the same goes with White. On other hand Markkanen and Carter have much better reputation in Nba circles than on Bulls forum. Whatever Hawks are looking for Collins, i am posittive that they are not looking for Coby White, even in theirs worst nightmares.

Half of the NBA is interested in trading for Lavine and he’s putting up all star numbers but bulls fans are over rating him? Cmon now, he’s a legit star. Coby is another story.

His current contract makes him a lot more attractive as a trade target than if he was on a max deal. Teams would be projecting that he will make further jumps on a max contract when they consider acquiring him with intent to resign. But raw scoring does have value, even if overpaid
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Re: NBA Trade Thread # 3 

Post#275 » by Vickveto » Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:16 am

WYO wrote:
WindyCityBorn wrote:
Vickveto wrote:Russell Westbrook
unprotected 1st

For

Lauri
Wendell
Coby white
Otto porter

The wizards need players and cap Space to keep Bradley Beal around before he demands a trade.


WTF would we want Westbrook? He sucks and makes $40 million per. He is NOT Chris Paul. We basically save Washington from themselves. I’m not sure that pick worth being stuck with him.

Yep, add about 3 more picks and pick swaps along with taking Lauri out of the deal then we can talk about taking on Westbrook's contract and ball stopping style of play.


I agree a extra pick or two probably needs to be added
But I wish more people he will realize we are stuck in mediocrity and we have to do something EXTREME to get out of it. Or hope for a miracle pick in the back of the lottery to be the next Giannis or Donovan Mitchell. There may not be a player of that caliber getting picked around that range for another decade or so...our past failed tanks have killed this franchise.
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Re: NBA Trade Thread # 3 

Post#276 » by Seccci » Thu Feb 11, 2021 9:51 am

Let's go after beal and pair him with Zach. 2022 unprotected first, 2023 pick swap, 2024 top 3 protected first, 2025 pick swap, Markkanen and OPJ. If WSH doesn't want OPJ, get 3rd team on board. Tired waiting and hoping for picks to materialize into players, after years of waiting I have new view of prospects, I consider them useless busts until shown otherwise. Let's get Zach someone who can get 30 regularly, not once a month like coby white- keep him on bench and keep valentine, they play good off each other catch and shooting 3's.
It's easier to get big man, they are always plenty on open market, guys like lavine , beal are not. Hell depending on capspace in summer, u might go after collins too.
Pg ... Zach
Sg ... beal
Sf ... Pat williams
Pf. ... Collins
C. ... Who cares... Or afford. Sign some vet ring chaser off bench, heck give me javale or even dwight.

Bench.
Pg temple or whatever vet pg, sato waived...
Sg. Coby white
Sf. Valentine
Pf. Vet like taj, Thad...
C. Another who cares, second round pick.

If we can keep this year's pick in beal trade( doubt it but would be awesome) draft another 6'7- 6'9 wing guy who can slide to pf to alternate with williams on wing. Insurance for injuries.

Would also like to flip wendell for picks or veteran help. Did he ever finished more than 40 games in a season? He injured all time, I forgot about him lol

Priority should be trade for all star level player using picks plus Markkanen, wendell and whatever from bench needs to be cut in order to have capspace and get another all-star before Zach's extension kicks in. We use birth rights to max him.
Wait for it

Profit

P.s yes maybe not superstars there so ceiling bit less than what people get on their 2k franchise modes and daydream about, but it's talented and young enough to improve still.

Better than.. yo that 18 old might be star in 2028. Zzzzzzzzzzz
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Re: NBA Trade Thread # 3 

Post#277 » by gobullschi » Thu Feb 11, 2021 4:57 pm

Vickveto wrote:
WYO wrote:
WindyCityBorn wrote:
WTF would we want Westbrook? He sucks and makes $40 million per. He is NOT Chris Paul. We basically save Washington from themselves. I’m not sure that pick worth being stuck with him.

Yep, add about 3 more picks and pick swaps along with taking Lauri out of the deal then we can talk about taking on Westbrook's contract and ball stopping style of play.


I agree a extra pick or two probably needs to be added
But I wish more people he will realize we are stuck in mediocrity and we have to do something EXTREME to get out of it. Or hope for a miracle pick in the back of the lottery to be the next Giannis or Donovan Mitchell. There may not be a player of that caliber getting picked around that range for another decade or so...our past failed tanks have killed this franchise.


The Bulls aren’t ‘stuck in mediocrity’. They have the youngest starting line up in the NBA and are only 2 games out of the playoffs with two starters out. Give Billy Donovan some time to develop the talent we have.

Zach LaVine is one of the top young emerging all-stars in the game and the Bulls will have a ton of cap space available.

I actually think the Bulls are in a much better position than you think. Guys like LeBron, Harden, Curry, Westbrook, etc are all approaching their mid 30s, which is when a significant decline usually begins. A new generation of players will be taking over the league in the next couple years. Be patient and hopefully AK can add some difference makers in FA or via trade.
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Re: NBA Trade Thread # 3 

Post#278 » by MrSparkle » Thu Feb 11, 2021 5:06 pm

gobullschi wrote:
Vickveto wrote:
WYO wrote:Yep, add about 3 more picks and pick swaps along with taking Lauri out of the deal then we can talk about taking on Westbrook's contract and ball stopping style of play.


I agree a extra pick or two probably needs to be added
But I wish more people he will realize we are stuck in mediocrity and we have to do something EXTREME to get out of it. Or hope for a miracle pick in the back of the lottery to be the next Giannis or Donovan Mitchell. There may not be a player of that caliber getting picked around that range for another decade or so...our past failed tanks have killed this franchise.


The Bulls aren’t ‘stuck in mediocrity’. They have the youngest starting line up in the NBA and are only 2 games out of the playoffs with two starters out. Give Billy Donovan some time to develop the talent we have.

Zach LaVine is one of the top young emerging all-stars in the game and the Bulls will have a ton of cap space available.

I actually think the Bulls are in a much better position than you think. Guys like LeBron, Harden, Curry, Westbrook, etc are all approaching their mid 30s, which is when a significant decline usually begins. A new generation of players will be taking over the league in the next couple years. Be patient and hopefully AK can add some difference makers in FA or via trade.


Yeah. League changes drastically every 1-2 years. People put too much emotional baggage on the lows and highs.

Fact is a (primarily) 19-25 yo roster never has and never will win something significant. It is virtually a Final Four squad in disguise. Your run-of-mill veterans Barton, Temple and Thad Young can make work out of #1 prospects like Edwards or Zion.

Brandon Ingram looked like garbage on stilts his first 2-3 seasons. That’s why he was hardly enough in the AD trade; Lakers had to trade their entire farm. Ainge was getting crapped on for holding Brown and Tatum past their first 1-2 years, as they "regressed" (largely fan fiction - the stakes just got higher for the sophomores).

The cap is significantly cleaner after Felicio and the G-League junk expires, along with injury prone Otto. The roster is more mature in 1-2 years. There will be some tweaks.

Of course I want a superstar draft as much as the next guy. But we’re gonna see, it’s a big dilemma to tank intentionally - you tank player value and development on a low % gamble.

We’re not looking like a homerun, but it’s a bit of a win-win. Due to injuries to fluff players (imo) like Otto and Lauri, we either win/compete with the “right guys” (development pieces) or we lose and maintain a top-4 lottery chance.

Doubling down - PW and Coby are going to be good players. Zach has landed on the moon. I never expected any of these guys to become as good as Lebron or Durant, but you also have to remember that these guys ONLY won chips with super teams. Otherwise, smart team building, player development with sprinkles of great luck are what you need. And anybody with a brain will tell you that relying solely on 'great luck' is probably going to fail.. especially since Jokic, Draymond, Siakam, Butler, Bam, Kawhi, Giannis and countless others have proven that you can get lucky without tanking.

Main problem i had with the GarPax build was considering one-way bigs with no playmaking/iso-scoring skills as core pieces. With WCJ/Lauri kind of out of the picture, in the sense that everyone realizes they aren't "top-10 pick" quality, the 'core' is actually pretty solid... Considering we have another FRP (mid at worst, top-4 at best) coming, and a clean cap.
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Re: NBA Trade Thread # 3 

Post#279 » by PrimzyBulls81 » Thu Feb 11, 2021 5:41 pm

RoseTheFuture22 wrote:This is a little less exciting but it could make some sense for both teams:

Bulls trade:
Porter
Temple
Kornet

Grizzlies trade:
Tyus Jones
Dieng
Kyle Anderson

We lose some shooting and also a little potential cap room next summer but get some cheap playmakers who seem like a better fit with the current core we have. Dieng is on an expiring but would be a good backup to Carter or spot starter for now. Grizz get wing depth to make a playoff push.


Why would Memphis do this?? Bad for them..
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Re: NBA Trade Thread # 3 

Post#280 » by sco » Thu Feb 11, 2021 5:59 pm

MrSparkle wrote:
gobullschi wrote:
Vickveto wrote:
I agree a extra pick or two probably needs to be added
But I wish more people he will realize we are stuck in mediocrity and we have to do something EXTREME to get out of it. Or hope for a miracle pick in the back of the lottery to be the next Giannis or Donovan Mitchell. There may not be a player of that caliber getting picked around that range for another decade or so...our past failed tanks have killed this franchise.


The Bulls aren’t ‘stuck in mediocrity’. They have the youngest starting line up in the NBA and are only 2 games out of the playoffs with two starters out. Give Billy Donovan some time to develop the talent we have.

Zach LaVine is one of the top young emerging all-stars in the game and the Bulls will have a ton of cap space available.

I actually think the Bulls are in a much better position than you think. Guys like LeBron, Harden, Curry, Westbrook, etc are all approaching their mid 30s, which is when a significant decline usually begins. A new generation of players will be taking over the league in the next couple years. Be patient and hopefully AK can add some difference makers in FA or via trade.


Yeah. League changes drastically every 1-2 years. People put too much emotional baggage on the lows and highs.

Fact is a (primarily) 19-25 yo roster never has and never will win something significant. It is virtually a Final Four squad in disguise. Your run-of-mill veterans Barton, Temple and Thad Young can make work out of #1 prospects like Edwards or Zion.

Brandon Ingram looked like garbage on stilts his first 2-3 seasons. That’s why he was hardly enough in the AD trade; Lakers had to trade their entire farm. Ainge was getting crapped on for holding Brown and Tatum past their first 1-2 years, as they "regressed" (largely fan fiction - the stakes just got higher for the sophomores).

The cap is significantly cleaner after Felicio and the G-League junk expires, along with injury prone Otto. The roster is more mature in 1-2 years. There will be some tweaks.

Of course I want a superstar draft as much as the next guy. But we’re gonna see, it’s a big dilemma to tank intentionally - you tank player value and development on a low % gamble.

We’re not looking like a homerun, but it’s a bit of a win-win. Due to injuries to fluff players (imo) like Otto and Lauri, we either win/compete with the “right guys” (development pieces) or we lose and maintain a top-4 lottery chance.

Doubling down - PW and Coby are going to be good players. Zach has landed on the moon. I never expected any of these guys to become as good as Lebron or Durant, but you also have to remember that these guys ONLY won chips with super teams. Otherwise, smart team building, player development with sprinkles of great luck are what you need. And anybody with a brain will tell you that relying solely on 'great luck' is probably going to fail.. especially since Jokic, Draymond, Siakam, Butler, Bam, Kawhi, Giannis and countless others have proven that you can get lucky without tanking.

Main problem i had with the GarPax build was considering one-way bigs with no playmaking/iso-scoring skills as core pieces. With WCJ/Lauri kind of out of the picture, in the sense that everyone realizes they aren't "top-10 pick" quality, the 'core' is actually pretty solid... Considering we have another FRP (mid at worst, top-4 at best) coming, and a clean cap.

Some good points here.

IMO, great teams are built around 2 or 3 great players. Step one, find one great player. Semantics aside, I think Zach has turned into a great player. Step two is to find a second great player via trade, FA or draft. IMO, that guy isn't on the team. Maybe Coby or PWill have some monster jumps in them, but I am of the mind that a second great player isn't on the team right now, and there should be no asset on the team that is untouchable if we can get another (ideally under-30) great player to pair with Zach. Then we become a destination for good FA's who you might be able to get a good deal on because they want to be part of a winner.
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