Tank World Order (2.0)

[Danny1616]

Like the good ole DeBrick Raptor days. Ahh missed that.

Team mediocre is a nice winning streak away from another 50+ win pace season. Maybe we'll trade Siakam + TD + a pick for another superstar and win title #2. That'd really piss people off.

Team Mediocre were distraught that their mascot DeBrick DeMediocre was traded. What alternate history is this?

Not true whatsoever.

So are you saying that all anti-tankers were against the Kawhi trade but pro-tankers were all pro-Kawhi trade? How did you come up with those stats?

In fact, some from the TWO crew wanted to trade Derozan for draft picks and not risk 1 year with Kawhi when he likely leaves regardless.

Not true at all. People like me were heavily in favor of the Kawhi trade and spoke about Demar being a weak link defensively.

[720]

Team mediocre is a nice winning streak away from another 50+ win pace season. Maybe we'll trade Siakam + TD + a pick for another superstar and win title #2. That'd really piss people off.

Team Mediocre were distraught that their mascot DeBrick DeMediocre was traded. What alternate history is this?

Not true whatsoever.

So are you saying that all anti-tankers were against the Kawhi trade but pro-tankers were all pro-Kawhi trade? How did you come up with those stats?

In fact, some from the TWO crew wanted to trade Derozan for draft picks and not risk 1 year with Kawhi when he likely leaves regardless.

Not true at all. People like me were heavily in favor of the Kawhi trade and spoke about Demar being a weak link defensively.

Lol great revisionist history. Team Mediocre did not want the Demar trade, in fact many said it was a risk and even if there wasn’t a risk they implied somehow Demar deserved “better” and that he was a legend in the franchise.

I personally advocated for a trade for a couple years by that point. The Paul George trade comes to mind, in fact it was any time a rumored started about a star possibly being available. Thankfully Zaza injured Kawhi and the rest was history.

Many of the people right now that want to trade Lowry and Norman and retool this season through the draft wanted the same with Demar.

[vini_vidi_vici]

This whole clumping people into groups to propagate a narrative is both inane, and inaccurate.

[720]

I'm just saying nobody knows how this will play out and you guys are acting like the Warriors are in the perfect spot to be a contender again like they planned it all.

Sure, if Curry can sustain MVP level play, and Klay returns to peak form, Green can still contribute, and Wiseman turns into a star, then yeah they can become a contender again.

But it's not that simple. Curry and Klay will be 33 next year, Klay is coming back from two major surgeries after missing two years and is at the edge of his prime anyways. Nobody knows how he will be.

It was planned. First of all they got Russell back for KD. Then they flipped that for a lotto pick. How is that not planned?

After Curry and Klay age out they will still have great young pieces like Wiseman and whoever they draft this year or next year with the Minny lotto pick.

Meanwhile we’re hesitating to move Lowry who looks like he’s leaving and Norm who is a role player we can use to flip for a possible young asset.

How was it all planned?

KD decided to leave for free agency and picked Brooklyn. Since Kyrie signed with Brooklyn as well they needed to do a sign a trade to make it work with the cap space. In addition, Minny is currently last in the league and the pick is top 3 protected.

End of the day, the Warriors did not plan for Klay and Steph to miss the entire season last year and then KLAY AGAIN to tear his ACL and miss this season as well. If Steph played all last season, that team is not a bottom feeder, they would be in the running for the 7-8 seed. That means they don't get a top 5 pick and instead get a top 16-17 pick.

Now could these events help them in the future if Green can remain a big factor, Klay returns to peak form next year and Wiseman continues to improve? Maybe, but nothing is certain. Klay might only be 70% of his former self and Wiseman may only be a solid big and not an all-star big. We don't know, we have to see. But you can't say this was all planned.

In sum we still don't know what will happen. Klay will be 33 coming off two major surgeries. Curry will also be 33. Green is not getting younger either and is already regressing. All three of those guys are tied up in huge contracts. We don't know if the pick they get next year (if they do get) will be a bust, role player or star.

Golden State might be left with two aging and declining all-stars on super max contracts, and a declining defensive specialist on a huge contract as well. Many things have to go right for Golden State to return to contention. It may or may not happen, and if it does happen, the majority of it can be attributed to Klay and Steph's injuries, not some pre-planned deliberate strategy.

Deflecting again, we weren’t talking about last years tank for them. Me and the guy were talking about this year. Once again trading for Russell and then trading him for Wiggins and that first round pick shows the warriors were looking ahead. In fact KD was mad the nets even agreed to a sign and trade for Russell.

Now look at them, they’re going to get a lotto pick in the stacked lottery. If they don’t get it this year they’ll have an unprotected 1st next year for the elusive double draft that’ll feature Emoni.

[Danny1616]

It was planned. First of all they got Russell back for KD. Then they flipped that for a lotto pick. How is that not planned?

After Curry and Klay age out they will still have great young pieces like Wiseman and whoever they draft this year or next year with the Minny lotto pick.

Meanwhile we’re hesitating to move Lowry who looks like he’s leaving and Norm who is a role player we can use to flip for a possible young asset.

How was it all planned?

KD decided to leave for free agency and picked Brooklyn. Since Kyrie signed with Brooklyn as well they needed to do a sign a trade to make it work with the cap space. In addition, Minny is currently last in the league and the pick is top 3 protected.

End of the day, the Warriors did not plan for Klay and Steph to miss the entire season last year and then KLAY AGAIN to tear his ACL and miss this season as well. If Steph played all last season, that team is not a bottom feeder, they would be in the running for the 7-8 seed. That means they don't get a top 5 pick and instead get a top 16-17 pick.

Now could these events help them in the future if Green can remain a big factor, Klay returns to peak form next year and Wiseman continues to improve? Maybe, but nothing is certain. Klay might only be 70% of his former self and Wiseman may only be a solid big and not an all-star big. We don't know, we have to see. But you can't say this was all planned.

In sum we still don't know what will happen. Klay will be 33 coming off two major surgeries. Curry will also be 33. Green is not getting younger either and is already regressing. All three of those guys are tied up in huge contracts. We don't know if the pick they get next year (if they do get) will be a bust, role player or star.

Golden State might be left with two aging and declining all-stars on super max contracts, and a declining defensive specialist on a huge contract as well. Many things have to go right for Golden State to return to contention. It may or may not happen, and if it does happen, the majority of it can be attributed to Klay and Steph's injuries, not some pre-planned deliberate strategy.

Deflecting again, we weren’t talking about last years tank for them. Me and the guy were talking about this year. Once again trading for Russell and then trading him for Wiggins and that first round pick shows the warriors were looking ahead. In fact KD was mad the nets even agreed to a sign and trade for Russell.

Now look at them, they’re going to get a lotto pick in the stacked lottery. If they don’t get it this year they’ll have an unprotected 1st next year for the elusive double draft that’ll feature Emoni.

It's no deflection whatsoever.

We have no idea what will happen and whether the Warriors will indeed become a contender. There are too many questions and variables involved here. As I said, the only reason they got a top 5 pick and drafted Wiseman was because of unplanned injuries.

You can continue to talk in circles and go through insane mental gymnastics to justify your theory.

[Danny1616]

Team Mediocre were distraught that their mascot DeBrick DeMediocre was traded. What alternate history is this?

Not true whatsoever.

So are you saying that all anti-tankers were against the Kawhi trade but pro-tankers were all pro-Kawhi trade? How did you come up with those stats?

In fact, some from the TWO crew wanted to trade Derozan for draft picks and not risk 1 year with Kawhi when he likely leaves regardless.

Not true at all. People like me were heavily in favor of the Kawhi trade and spoke about Demar being a weak link defensively.

Lol great revisionist history. Team Mediocre did not want the Demar trade, in fact many said it was a risk and even if there wasn’t a risk they implied somehow Demar deserved “better” and that he was a legend in the franchise.

I personally advocated for a trade for a couple years by that point. The Paul George trade comes to mind, in fact it was any time a rumored started about a star possibly being available. Thankfully Zaza injured Kawhi and the rest was history.

Many of the people right now that want to trade Lowry and Norman and retool this season through the draft wanted the same with Demar.

Not revisionist history whatsoever.

I am against a tank/rebuild, but I was heavily critical of Demar defensively and was also well ahead on trading him.

I have receipts:

Here is me in March 2017

Off-season goals should be:

1) Resigning Lowry to whatever he wants - He is still has a lot of legs left in him and his style of play well translate well deep into his mid 30s. He is also the identity of this team and the best player in franchise history.

2) Trade Valanciunas - I think he is not properly utilized and does not fit our perimeter-oriented team with Lowry and Derozan. Casey also does not trust him...it does not make sense to keep him.

3) Get rid of Carroll's contract...it is clear that Powell and Tucker provide more then Caroll...they shoot the 3 better, are quicker and stronger.

4) Resign Tucker and Ibaka

5) Try to extend Powell for a reasonable deal (could be a great decision to do now).

June 2018

I can see Boston doing a sign and trade that includes Irving if Leonard agrees.

Masai has to swing for the fences on this one.

Derozan and Jonas would be ideal but unrealistic.

Probably would have to be Derozan, OG and Poeltl or something like that.

Don't lie. Many of us "anti-tankers" were fully on board for trading for Kawhi.

[beanbag]

Team Mediocre were distraught that their mascot DeBrick DeMediocre was traded. What alternate history is this?

Not true whatsoever.

So are you saying that all anti-tankers were against the Kawhi trade but pro-tankers were all pro-Kawhi trade? How did you come up with those stats?

In fact, some from the TWO crew wanted to trade Derozan for draft picks and not risk 1 year with Kawhi when he likely leaves regardless.

Not true at all. People like me were heavily in favor of the Kawhi trade and spoke about Demar being a weak link defensively.

Lol great revisionist history. Team Mediocre did not want the Demar trade, in fact many said it was a risk and even if there wasn’t a risk they implied somehow Demar deserved “better” and that he was a legend in the franchise.

I personally advocated for a trade for a couple years by that point. The Paul George trade comes to mind, in fact it was any time a rumored started about a star possibly being available. Thankfully Zaza injured Kawhi and the rest was history.

Many of the people right now that want to trade Lowry and Norman and retool this season through the draft wanted the same with Demar.

These posts gave me serious 12 angry men vibes where all the other jurors have flipped and the last guy is still railing away at a room that is staring blankly at him.

[Masai4PM]

I don't understand why these fools keep saying we didn't want to trade Demar.

Obviously that team was flawed and so is this one, but we won without tanking and we will win again without tanking.

[ATLTimekeeper]

The Raptors can't use Golden State as a model. They're willing to pay massive repeater tax sums to tank in a weak draft. MLSE isn't going to do that. Almost every team won't do that, and no team needs to do that. May as well compare us to the Lakers.

[720]

How was it all planned?

KD decided to leave for free agency and picked Brooklyn. Since Kyrie signed with Brooklyn as well they needed to do a sign a trade to make it work with the cap space. In addition, Minny is currently last in the league and the pick is top 3 protected.

End of the day, the Warriors did not plan for Klay and Steph to miss the entire season last year and then KLAY AGAIN to tear his ACL and miss this season as well. If Steph played all last season, that team is not a bottom feeder, they would be in the running for the 7-8 seed. That means they don't get a top 5 pick and instead get a top 16-17 pick.

Now could these events help them in the future if Green can remain a big factor, Klay returns to peak form next year and Wiseman continues to improve? Maybe, but nothing is certain. Klay might only be 70% of his former self and Wiseman may only be a solid big and not an all-star big. We don't know, we have to see. But you can't say this was all planned.

In sum we still don't know what will happen. Klay will be 33 coming off two major surgeries. Curry will also be 33. Green is not getting younger either and is already regressing. All three of those guys are tied up in huge contracts. We don't know if the pick they get next year (if they do get) will be a bust, role player or star.

Golden State might be left with two aging and declining all-stars on super max contracts, and a declining defensive specialist on a huge contract as well. Many things have to go right for Golden State to return to contention. It may or may not happen, and if it does happen, the majority of it can be attributed to Klay and Steph's injuries, not some pre-planned deliberate strategy.

Deflecting again, we weren’t talking about last years tank for them. Me and the guy were talking about this year. Once again trading for Russell and then trading him for Wiggins and that first round pick shows the warriors were looking ahead. In fact KD was mad the nets even agreed to a sign and trade for Russell.

Now look at them, they’re going to get a lotto pick in the stacked lottery. If they don’t get it this year they’ll have an unprotected 1st next year for the elusive double draft that’ll feature Emoni.

It's no deflection whatsoever.

We have no idea what will happen and whether the Warriors will indeed become a contender. There are too many questions and variables involved here. As I said, the only reason they got a top 5 pick and drafted Wiseman was because of unplanned injuries.

You can continue to talk in circles and go through insane mental gymnastics to justify your theory.

What are you even talking about dude?

“We have no idea what will happen”

“There are too many questions and variables involved here”

It’s a simple trade, they traded Russell for future assets. It’s not hard to understand. Something we should be doing with guys that are not part of the future core (Norm and Lowry).

[720]

Not true whatsoever.

So are you saying that all anti-tankers were against the Kawhi trade but pro-tankers were all pro-Kawhi trade? How did you come up with those stats?

In fact, some from the TWO crew wanted to trade Derozan for draft picks and not risk 1 year with Kawhi when he likely leaves regardless.

Not true at all. People like me were heavily in favor of the Kawhi trade and spoke about Demar being a weak link defensively.

Lol great revisionist history. Team Mediocre did not want the Demar trade, in fact many said it was a risk and even if there wasn’t a risk they implied somehow Demar deserved “better” and that he was a legend in the franchise.

I personally advocated for a trade for a couple years by that point. The Paul George trade comes to mind, in fact it was any time a rumored started about a star possibly being available. Thankfully Zaza injured Kawhi and the rest was history.

Many of the people right now that want to trade Lowry and Norman and retool this season through the draft wanted the same with Demar.

Not revisionist history whatsoever.

I am against a tank/rebuild, but I was heavily critical of Demar defensively and was also well ahead on trading him.

I have receipts:

Here is me in March 2017

Off-season goals should be:

1) Resigning Lowry to whatever he wants - He is still has a lot of legs left in him and his style of play well translate well deep into his mid 30s. He is also the identity of this team and the best player in franchise history.

2) Trade Valanciunas - I think he is not properly utilized and does not fit our perimeter-oriented team with Lowry and Derozan. Casey also does not trust him...it does not make sense to keep him.

3) Get rid of Carroll's contract...it is clear that Powell and Tucker provide more then Caroll...they shoot the 3 better, are quicker and stronger.

4) Resign Tucker and Ibaka

5) Try to extend Powell for a reasonable deal (could be a great decision to do now).

June 2018

I can see Boston doing a sign and trade that includes Irving if Leonard agrees.

Masai has to swing for the fences on this one.

Derozan and Jonas would be ideal but unrealistic.

Probably would have to be Derozan, OG and Poeltl or something like that.

Don't lie. Many of us "anti-tankers" were fully on board for trading for Kawhi.

Meanwhile you accused me of hating the Kawhi trade when guys like me, Throwback, Steelo, etc said Demar is a flawed **** player that needs to be moved. (Which was a minority position on this forum at that time). The same clowns that started bringing up ‘oh so you want to go back to our losing days huh?’ did that back then too.

Funny how you saw the limitations of Demar but not the limitations of this current core.

We also don’t want to do a rebuild. We want to retool. It begins with trading Lowry and Norman.

[720]

The Raptors can't use Golden State as a model. They're willing to pay massive repeater tax sums to tank in a weak draft. MLSE isn't going to do that. Almost every team won't do that, and no team needs to do that. May as well compare us to the Lakers.

We can emulate one aspect of their team building. They knew Russell wasn’t a long term piece for them (for us that’s Lowry and Norm). You can’t tie up 30 million to Russell when you have Curry and Klay locked and expect to win a championship.

So what did they do? They took on a **** contract in Wiggins and got one 1st and one 2nd record round pick for him.

Now maybe Bobby is planning this and he might execute it but Norm is a role player that will warrant 15-20 million a year soon. Lowry is an aging guy that isn’t a long term member of the core going forward. We need to get something for them.

[baller16]

Team mediocre to dumb to see the bigger picture. Sigh another first round exit with a consolation prize of a 905 pick

[ATLTimekeeper]

The Raptors can't use Golden State as a model. They're willing to pay massive repeater tax sums to tank in a weak draft. MLSE isn't going to do that. Almost every team won't do that, and no team needs to do that. May as well compare us to the Lakers.

We can emulate one aspect of their team building. They knew Russell wasn’t a long term piece for them (for us that’s Lowry and Norm). You can’t tie up 30 million to Russell when you have Curry and Klay locked and expect to win a championship.

So what did they do? They took on a **** contract in Wiggins and got one 1st and one 2nd record round pick for him.

Now maybe Bobby is planning this and he might execute it but Norm is a role player that will warrant 15-20 million a year soon. Lowry is an aging guy that isn’t a long term member of the core going forward. We need to get something for them.

So they still have a bad contract and can't win a championship?

[720]

The Raptors can't use Golden State as a model. They're willing to pay massive repeater tax sums to tank in a weak draft. MLSE isn't going to do that. Almost every team won't do that, and no team needs to do that. May as well compare us to the Lakers.

We can emulate one aspect of their team building. They knew Russell wasn’t a long term piece for them (for us that’s Lowry and Norm). You can’t tie up 30 million to Russell when you have Curry and Klay locked and expect to win a championship.

So what did they do? They took on a **** contract in Wiggins and got one 1st and one 2nd record round pick for him.

Now maybe Bobby is planning this and he might execute it but Norm is a role player that will warrant 15-20 million a year soon. Lowry is an aging guy that isn’t a long term member of the core going forward. We need to get something for them.

So they still have a bad contract and can't win a championship?

Great, proved you are a bad faith arguer.

[vini_vidi_vici]

Demar was a flawed player was minority position?? False.

12 hrs after the trade, it had an approval rating of 91% for the trade.

I dont know where this narrative is coming from. The only guys I remember being upset DD moved were CreaM/Mirrornick/TeamLeiweke.

[720]

Demar was a flawed player was minority position?? False.

12 hrs after the trade, it had an approval rating of 91% for the trade.

I dont know where this narrative is coming from. The only guys I remember being upset DD moved were CreaM/Mirrornick/TeamLeiweke.

It isn’t false because I literally had similar debates for basically 2 years with posters damage controlling his horrible play. It was anyone else’s fault except Demar. Blames went to Casey, Lowry, Valanciunas, Patrick Patterson, anyone but to our golden boy.

As for the Demar Kawhi trade, there was a poll done here before the trade asking if it was a good idea and a big chunk of the board said not to do that trade. Steelo has the screenshot.

[vini_vidi_vici]

Demar was a flawed player was minority position?? False.

12 hrs after the trade, it had an approval rating of 91% for the trade.

I dont know where this narrative is coming from. The only guys I remember being upset DD moved were CreaM/Mirrornick/TeamLeiweke.

It isn’t false because I literally had similar debates for basically 2 years with posters damage controlling his horrible play. It was anyone else’s fault except Demar. Blames went to Nurse, Lowry, Valanciunas, Patrick Patterson, anyone but to our golden boy.

As for the Demar Kawhi trade, there was a poll done here before the trade asking if it was a good idea and a big chunk of the board said not to do that trade. Steelo has the screenshot.

Edit: viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1730234

I dont need a screenshot (191 ppl polled).

Second, because you had debates doesnt indicate you were in the minority. I wrote more about the flaws of DD than almost anyone on this board and the majority of my interactions reinforced that. From all the Cream Threads (DD has Paul George potential 2 100+ page threads, etc..), to even writing about how bad his defense was. Youre conflating your experience into something that was never true.

This has nothing to do with JV/PP/KL/Nurse/DC/etc..

[720]

Demar was a flawed player was minority position?? False.

12 hrs after the trade, it had an approval rating of 91% for the trade.

I dont know where this narrative is coming from. The only guys I remember being upset DD moved were CreaM/Mirrornick/TeamLeiweke.

It isn’t false because I literally had similar debates for basically 2 years with posters damage controlling his horrible play. It was anyone else’s fault except Demar. Blames went to Nurse, Lowry, Valanciunas, Patrick Patterson, anyone but to our golden boy.

As for the Demar Kawhi trade, there was a poll done here before the trade asking if it was a good idea and a big chunk of the board said not to do that trade. Steelo has the screenshot.

viewtopic.php?t=1648523

I dont need a screenshot (191 ppl polled).

Second, because you had debates doesnt indicate you were in the minority. I wrote more about the flaws of DD than almost anyone on this board and the majority of my interactions reinforced that. From all the Cream Threads (DD has Paul George potential 2 100+ page threads, etc..), to even writing about how bad his defense was. Youre conflating your experience into something that was never true.

This has nothing to do with JV/PP/KL/Nurse/DC/etc..

Both links show the same page.

“Youre conflating your experience into something that was never true.”

Sorry bud, most of this board were Demar fans and never were willing to have an open and honest conversation about his game and our ceiling as a team.

[vini_vidi_vici]

It isn’t false because I literally had similar debates for basically 2 years with posters damage controlling his horrible play. It was anyone else’s fault except Demar. Blames went to Nurse, Lowry, Valanciunas, Patrick Patterson, anyone but to our golden boy.

As for the Demar Kawhi trade, there was a poll done here before the trade asking if it was a good idea and a big chunk of the board said not to do that trade. Steelo has the screenshot.

viewtopic.php?t=1648523

I dont need a screenshot (191 ppl polled).

Second, because you had debates doesnt indicate you were in the minority. I wrote more about the flaws of DD than almost anyone on this board and the majority of my interactions reinforced that. From all the Cream Threads (DD has Paul George potential 2 100+ page threads, etc..), to even writing about how bad his defense was. Youre conflating your experience into something that was never true.

This has nothing to do with JV/PP/KL/Nurse/DC/etc..

Both links show the same page.

“Youre conflating your experience into something that was never true.”

Sorry bud, most of this board were Demar fans and never were willing to have an open and honest conversation about his game and our ceiling as a team.

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1730234

Theres the link.

That again is not true. The DD hate was not a minority opinion.