Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - No Politics

[skones]

Love the way Naz Reid has looked, but I don't know why the Wolves would trade him.

I don't know how they value him, but in the grand scheme of things, he's probably undervalued because he's on a 6-19 Minnesota team, that nobody is paying attention to, with Towns' return likely to eat into his minutes. In addition, the Wolves are likely to be put under pressure from Towns camp. They're going to have to make win-now moves shortly.

[coolhandluke121]

Just a thought, but I could see old Giannis being like a prime Bogut. I think that still has good play in the league.
Maybe he can catch rebounds from the 70 3's per game and get a few putback dunks on offense

Prime Bogut was one of the best defensive true centers in the league though, if not briefly the best. Right there with Howard and Marc Gasol as one of the first guys you'd want to guard a traditional great center on the other team. Imagine prime Bogut guarding Jokic or Embiid in the post and then compare that to Giannis. There's no comparison in functional strength IMO.

I see post-prime Giannis as a taller/longer Odom type of player.

[SirChurros]

Love the way Naz Reid has looked, but I don't know why the Wolves would trade him.

I don't know how they value him, but in the grand scheme of things, he's probably undervalued because he's on a 6-19 Minnesota team, that nobody is paying attention to, with Towns' return likely to eat into his minutes. In addition, the Wolves are likely to be put under pressure from Towns camp. They're going to have to make win-now moves shortly.

That's fair. I mean I would do it in a heartbeat. I've been really impressed with how well he has played, especially in regards to shooting the three.

[skones]

Just a thought, but I could see old Giannis being like a prime Bogut. I think that still has good play in the league.
Maybe he can catch rebounds from the 70 3's per game and get a few putback dunks on offense

Prime Bogut was one of the best defensive true centers in the league though, if not briefly the best. Right there with Howard and Marc Gasol as one of the first guys you'd want to guard a traditional great center on the other team. Imagine prime Bogut guarding Jokic or Embiid in the post and then compare that to Giannis. There's no comparison in functional strength IMO.

I see post-prime Giannis as a taller/longer Odom type of player.

Odom's BBIQ and feel for the game dwarfs Giannis. He's a roll man.

[-Jragon-]

In other news, Naz Reid is an under the radar guy to target for a possible Brook replacement that also happens to fit long term.

In actual news:

https://www.poundingtherock.com/2021/2/10/22275373/lamarcus-aldridge-san-antonio-spurs-defensive-liability

Guess it's not as easy as you thought

Or ya know, we happen to have Jrue Holiday, Donte Divincenzo, Khris Middleton, and Giannis Antetokounmpo on the perimeter. That doesn't make a difference at all. You want to know what doesn't work? A drop zone with Patty Mills, Demar Derozan, and Keldon Johnson playing a lot of minutes. Did you completely miss the part in the article you posted which mentions that he's literally tasked with erasing the mistakes of young defenders that the Spurs are trotting out?

Portis being a defensive sieve for most of his career suddenly becoming a positive upon his arrival isn't evidence to the contrary.

You made the point even better than I could have by mentioning Middleton and Portis. Why do you think Brook is in there with the starters? It's Middleton's slow feet.

And you don't think Giannis, Thanasis and/or Craig had to play with Portis for a reason?

Add LaMarcus in for Brook and now we are back to square 1 on defense.

Donte is quicker obviously but gets exposed falling for every pump fake and juke by a savvy player - Paul demonstrated last night.

Keep going? Forbes, DJA, DJW - soft, soft, soft

[coolhandluke121]

Just a thought, but I could see old Giannis being like a prime Bogut. I think that still has good play in the league.
Maybe he can catch rebounds from the 70 3's per game and get a few putback dunks on offense

Prime Bogut was one of the best defensive true centers in the league though, if not briefly the best. Right there with Howard and Marc Gasol as one of the first guys you'd want to guard a traditional great center on the other team. Imagine prime Bogut guarding Jokic or Embiid in the post and then compare that to Giannis. There's no comparison in functional strength IMO.

I see post-prime Giannis as a taller/longer Odom type of player.

Odom's BBIQ and feel for the game dwarfs Giannis. He's a roll man.

Odom was not that smart, just uniquely skilled. As a percentage of his attempts, Odom actually took slightly more long 2's and a lot more 3's than Giannis did despite being a very poor shooter. Granted, he was marginally better at shooting, but they were still bad shots. His assist % was much lower and his turnover % was slightly higher than Giannis's. His turnover % was dramatically higher early in his career at comparable developmental stages.

I'm not defending Giannis's BBIQ but Odom was no better. The only difference was he eventually had Kobe and Phil reining him in.

[skones]

You made the point even better than I could have by mentioning Middleton and Portis. Why do you think Brook is in there with the starters? It's Middleton's slow feet.

And you don't think Giannis, Thanasis and/or Craig had to play with Portis for a reason?

Add LaMarcus in for Brook and now we are back to square 1 on defense.

Donte is quicker obviously but gets exposed falling for every pump fake and juke by a savvy player - Paul demonstrated last night.

Keep going? Forbes, DJA, DJW - soft, soft, soft

This post is also sorts of lol. Middleton's slow feet as if he isn't crucial to what this team does from a team defensive standpoint. Thanasis and Torrey Craig somehow covering up on the defensive end for others. Donte being prone to being "exposed" despite grading out as one of the top shooting guards in the league defensively and using one of the best point guards of all time and savvy shot makers as some sort of proof of concept. Somehow using Forbes, DJA, and DJW as examples like somehow anyone is arguing that they're helping the defense. You're all over the place.

[-Jragon-]

You made the point even better than I could have by mentioning Middleton and Portis. Why do you think Brook is in there with the starters? It's Middleton's slow feet.

And you don't think Giannis, Thanasis and/or Craig had to play with Portis for a reason?

Add LaMarcus in for Brook and now we are back to square 1 on defense.

Donte is quicker obviously but gets exposed falling for every pump fake and juke by a savvy player - Paul demonstrated last night.

Keep going? Forbes, DJA, DJW - soft, soft, soft

This post is also sorts of lol. Middleton's slow feet. Thanasis and Torrey Craig somehow covering up on the defensive end for others. Donte being prone to being "exposed" despite grading out as one of the top shooting guards in the league defensively and using one of the best point guards of all time and savvy shot makers as some sort of proof of concept. Somehow using Forbes, DJA, and DJW as examples like somehow anyone is arguing that they're helping the defense. You're all over the place.

What's your point though? Some magical advanced stat that proves Midds is a good defender when it's plain to see Brook and Giannis force them to shoot floaters over their length as he gets beat?

[skones]

You made the point even better than I could have by mentioning Middleton and Portis. Why do you think Brook is in there with the starters? It's Middleton's slow feet.

And you don't think Giannis, Thanasis and/or Craig had to play with Portis for a reason?

Add LaMarcus in for Brook and now we are back to square 1 on defense.

Donte is quicker obviously but gets exposed falling for every pump fake and juke by a savvy player - Paul demonstrated last night.

Keep going? Forbes, DJA, DJW - soft, soft, soft

This post is also sorts of lol. Middleton's slow feet. Thanasis and Torrey Craig somehow covering up on the defensive end for others. Donte being prone to being "exposed" despite grading out as one of the top shooting guards in the league defensively and using one of the best point guards of all time and savvy shot makers as some sort of proof of concept. Somehow using Forbes, DJA, and DJW as examples like somehow anyone is arguing that they're helping the defense. You're all over the place.

What's your point though? Some magical advanced stat that proves Midds is a good defender when it's plain to see Brook and Giannis force them to shoot floaters over their length?

It's LITERALLY the scheme that pushes them into Giannis and Brook. That's what the drop zone is. What's your point? To demonstrate that you don't know why we play the drop zone or how it's actually implemented?

[-Jragon-]

This post is also sorts of lol. Middleton's slow feet. Thanasis and Torrey Craig somehow covering up on the defensive end for others. Donte being prone to being "exposed" despite grading out as one of the top shooting guards in the league defensively and using one of the best point guards of all time and savvy shot makers as some sort of proof of concept. Somehow using Forbes, DJA, and DJW as examples like somehow anyone is arguing that they're helping the defense. You're all over the place.

What's your point though? Some magical advanced stat that proves Midds is a good defender when it's plain to see Brook and Giannis force them to shoot floaters over their length?

It's LITERALLY the scheme that pushes them into Giannis and Brook. That's what the drop zone is. What's your point? To demonstrate that you don't know why we play the drop zone or how it's actually implemented?

And why do we need that if Midds is so lock down on D? Without Bud's scheme we'd be counting how many times he gets dunked on per game.

[skones]

What's your point though? Some magical advanced stat that proves Midds is a good defender when it's plain to see Brook and Giannis force them to shoot floaters over their length?

It's LITERALLY the scheme that pushes them into Giannis and Brook. That's what the drop zone is. What's your point? To demonstrate that you don't know why we play the drop zone or how it's actually implemented?

And why do we need that if Midds is so lock down on D? Without Bud's scheme we'd be counting how many times he gets dunked on per game.

[-Jragon-]

It's LITERALLY the scheme that pushes them into Giannis and Brook. That's what the drop zone is. What's your point? To demonstrate that you don't know why we play the drop zone or how it's actually implemented?

And why do we need that if Midds is so lock down on D? Without Bud's scheme we'd be counting how many times he gets dunked on per game.

I'm completely lost on what your opinion is. Originally you said Brook is easily replaced by LA. His inability to play about the same role in S.A. defense is highlighted 2 days later. But now he still can replace Brook?

It sounds like your point is that our back court has better defenders than S.A. so he'll have an easier job. And I can only agree that about half our backcourt can play defense so he'd still have plenty to cover up. My opinion:

Awesome defenders: Jrue, Craig - rarely will need help

Adequate: DD (bites every fake but good reactions), Midds (slow feet good in passing lanes) - often they'll need a helper down low

Weak: DJA, Forbes - will always need a helper down low

[skones]

It sounds like your point is that our back court has better defenders than S.A. so he'll have an easier job. And I can only agree that about half our backcourt can play defense so he'd still have plenty to cover up. My opinion:

Awesome defenders: Jrue, Craig - rarely will need help

Adequate: DD (bites every fake but good reactions), Midds (slow feet good in passing lanes) - often they'll need a helper down low

Weak: DJA, Forbes - will always need a helper down low

It sounds like my point is? It is my point. I made that pretty plain.

Do you seriously think you just plug and play schemes in across the league and get similar/same results? Personnel matters a great deal and you're sitting there glossing over that fact as if it's not some MAJOR contributor to a defense ultimately working. I think it's particularly interesting that you just happened to not mention the reigning DPOY as if it doesn't completely alter the landscape of a defense. But hey, you do you and sit there and act like trotting out Patty Mills, Rudy Gay, Lonnie Walker, Demar Derozan, etc. is somehow a comparable situation.

The goal here is to find cheap alternatives to fill Brooks role given he has a salary slot that will likely need to be dealt in order to improve this ballclub in the short and long term. You can't seem to grasp that you're not necessarily aiming for a 1:1 replacement in all areas when you do this. You're looking for stop-gaps until you ultimately find the long term placeholder. This isn't rocket science, but you're somehow making it seem like it. All of this stuff is pretty straight forward here.

How do we replace Brook for cheap!
This is how!
But he's not as good!
That's why he's cheap........

[coolhandluke121]

I think there's a limit on what they can pay Portis next year if he opts out, right? It's basically just like after Brook signed the BAE in 2018 and the team didn't have his Early Bird rights after just 1 year with the team so they had to either use cap space or the MLE to pay him more than 120% of his 2018-19 salary. But the Bucks won't have cap space next year and they'll only have the tax MLE, which won't be enough for Portis at this rate unless he really wants to stay - which is certainly possible, of course.

I'm guessing Forbes opts out and gets more money as well. They'll have Jrue's raise (hopefully) to account for and they'll have a lot of roster spots to fill with minimum salaries. If Forbes and Portis opt out and Jrue gets a max extension, they'll be at nearly $150m for just 9 guys and a draft pick next season.

I think they're strong contenders this year but one could definitely argue that they're more likely to win a title at some point in the next 4 seasons if they clean up their payroll situation now. It's not like they wouldn't be a contender anymore with slight downgrades from Brook, Pat, and/or DJA.

[WRau1]

Lopez isn't a good defender outside of drop zone, he just isn't. Replacing most of what he brings on the court isn't the impossible feat some are making it out to be.

[WRau1]

I think there's a limit on what they can pay Portis next year if he opts out, right? It's basically just like after Brook signed the BAE in 2018 and the team didn't have his Early Bird rights after just 1 year with the team so they had to either use cap space or the MLE to pay him more than 120% of his 2018-19 salary. But the Bucks won't have cap space next year and they'll only have the tax MLE, which won't be enough for Portis at this rate unless he really wants to stay - which is certainly possible, of course.

I'm guessing Forbes opts out and gets more money as well. They'll have Jrue's raise (hopefully) to account for and they'll have a lot of roster spots to fill with minimum salaries. If Forbes and Portis opt out and Jrue gets a max extension, they'll be at nearly $150m for just 9 guys and a draft pick next season.

I think they're strong contenders this year but one could definitely argue that they're more likely to win a title at some point in the next 4 seasons if they clean up their payroll situation now. It's not like they wouldn't be a contender anymore with slight downgrades from Brook, Pat, and/or DJA.

Forbes and Portis are going to opt out and get paid, that pretty much just leaves PatC, Lopez and DJA as anchors. Try to attach one of PatC/DJA to Lopez to try and get a serviceable expiring at the deadline and use a pick to try and do the same with whomever is left of PatC/DJA. We could then be in good shape.

[LuessiT]

I think there's a limit on what they can pay Portis next year if he opts out, right? It's basically just like after Brook signed the BAE in 2018 and the team didn't have his Early Bird rights after just 1 year with the team so they had to either use cap space or the MLE to pay him more than 120% of his 2018-19 salary. But the Bucks won't have cap space next year and they'll only have the tax MLE, which won't be enough for Portis at this rate unless he really wants to stay - which is certainly possible, of course.

I'm guessing Forbes opts out and gets more money as well. They'll have Jrue's raise (hopefully) to account for and they'll have a lot of roster spots to fill with minimum salaries. If Forbes and Portis opt out and Jrue gets a max extension, they'll be at nearly $150m for just 9 guys and a draft pick next season.

I think they're strong contenders this year but one could definitely argue that they're more likely to win a title at some point in the next 4 seasons if they clean up their payroll situation now. It's not like they wouldn't be a contender anymore with slight downgrades from Brook, Pat, and/or DJA.

This is correct. Portis is probably gone no matter what. Best we can do is the tax-MLE for.1y followed up by early bird rights.

[-Jragon-]

Lopez isn't a good defender outside of drop zone, he just isn't. Replacing most of what he brings on the court isn't the impossible feat some are making it out to be.

I mean we've been trying for awhile now and dudes that can't figure it out are getting sent away left and right. Bye Henson, Thon, Wood, Robin, DJW soon... it must be more complex than we think like playing center in the NFL... I don't honestly know except that we keep trying dudes and they get banished to the deepest corners of the bench. So this idea that any long athlete can do it is invalid.

[emunney]

I think Portis may be happier than he's been in his whole life. I bet he'd take a 1+1 at the tax MLE.

[WRau1]

Lopez isn't a good defender outside of drop zone, he just isn't. Replacing most of what he brings on the court isn't the impossible feat some are making it out to be.

I mean we've been trying for awhile now and dudes that can't figure it out are getting sent away left and right. Bye Henson, Thon, Wood, Robin, DJW soon... it must be more complex than we think like playing center in the NFL... I don't honestly know except that we keep trying dudes and they get banished to the deepest corners of the bench. So this idea that any long athlete can do it is invalid.

Robin and Wood definitely would've worked and have proven so since departing. Henson, Thon and DJW aren't NBA players.