The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV

[elchengue20]

If KG was born 15 to 20 years later he would have been much closer to a Durant offensively.

Probably Durant with slightly worse offense but with considerably better defense. He would have been a better player than what he was.

Basketball has continued to evolve. Players today are much more skilled. You can argue if you enjoy or not the playstyle, specially with the 3 being so dominant today. But overall they are way more complete players.

[76thBearCub]

Garnett and KD are just so different. KD is a more rare basketball talent. KG was much more fierce. Both fun to watch.

[ivysixer2000]

I simply don't get the intense devotion to the narrative that we must give up Simmons to gain another good player. Yes, teams will ask for him, but no established player of Simmons' age and quality went out in the David, Harden or second Paul Gorge trade, even the first PG13 trade, Oladipo was not developed offensively yet. The Raps gave up Derozan for Kawhi, and while still near the top of his all star form, his player archetype was not in league vogue and he was near his decline stage.

We have enough tradable contracts, young guys on good contracts and draft picks to add someone to our current big three, hell, we did it once before and were four bounces of Kawhi's shot to possibly going further that year, then effed it up that summer. It isn't who can we trade Simmons for, it is who can we get to put alongside Simmons, Embiid and Tobi.

Be nice if we could concentrate on that instead of all the crazy trades that can possibly be thought of after a few drinks.

Just be patient and wait on the next star that decides he wants out. Don't go begging for someone, then you will end up with a horrible deal wishing you could take it back. We haven't even mentioned wanting a 4 in a trade, always Beal, Lavine, and such...yet we always talk about trading Ben or Tobais.

Upgrading us at the 2 when we would totally suck at the 4 in the process.....makes no progress at all.

Ben’s perfect position in fact the position he’s played all his life before going to the NBA was the 4. (He’s an all nba/all star lvl Elite defender + Playmaking PF/Wing). That’s where I see him excel at. One hook or floater that’s solidified as his go to move is 18/8/8 territory.
Or something like 16/8/8 in the Playoffs (elite third best player on the team.)

That’s my realistic expectation from Ben. Not a scorer or some gun 3 lvl shot creator attached on. Not his game at all

And if we can trade Harris for the ideal 2 position player that fits with Embiid/Simmons now we’re talking. Slide Ben to the 3/4 (his correct position) and things will be great.

I know it’s hindsight but Embiid/Butler/Simmons and co. Was the ideal setup moving forward. (I know butler isn’t the perfect shooter but what he does more than makes up for our half court problems). He was always going to Miami, Lavine/Beal/Oladipo or potential young players is what the 76ers should be looking at now.

If you truely want to hang onto Ben, okay Lavine/oladipo fits that mold (booker too but that’s the same proposition with Beal).

Either that or you develop/grab one from another team earlier than expected.

So Maxey/Milton. If we sit tight one of them has to make the big jump in the coming years. Do you bank on that?

or a young player from another team that has the potential too in the next couple of years to get to an all star/all nba threat on the outside.

Highest priority comes first then other complimentary exchanges come later.

What to do with Harris’s contract?
Too much depth at the sg/wing position, who has that potential to pair with Embiid/Simmons long term?
Do we move Ben for something that’s a better fit with our best player and roll with Embiid/???/Harris?.

For me I like Ben way way more than Harris as the 3rd best player on our team.

For Beal - Ben is gone

Lavine/Oladipo - is there possibility of holding onto Ben? Maxey/Milton could be very enticing.

I honestly can’t see many other ideal options for us at the 2 position looking on the outside.

Lavine + Simmons backcourt is a very complimentary to each other to go along with Embiid. The upside is very high.

Harris’s value is high as it’s ever going to be now of there was ever a time to get something of value maybe just maybe there’s a chance.

(I was super high on the Markannen/Harris swap. Markannen was super undervalued, didn’t get an extension and isn’t a 2 but a stretch 4 but the flexibility moving forward would have been massive for us in years to come and also having a value trade piece if needed as well, best of both worlds).

I could be 100% wrong and Harris’s contract is immovable for our stud 2 position. Then okay the proposition of role players/lower scaled contracts from productive players could be on the cards too.

This isn’t trading for trading sake. In my eyes it’s for the team to gets it’s ideal core moving forward.

Too much reading for me tonight man , just saying Ben for Beal wouldn't work for us other than if you want to TRY to beat the Nets offensively. Good luck with that.

Ben for Oladipo when Oladipo can leave in a year to the Heat.....really? Lavine, be nice if we could keep both Ben and Lavine.

[HotelVitale]

Yeah, there is definitely no such thing as low work ethic in the NBA, all players work bery bery hard, it is all about talent guys.

From what I've seen over the years and my experience working with D1 athletes, there are definitely some lazy players and some guys who blow their talent, and then there are others who just don't have very good sports IQ. But those are the outliers, and the average fan would be shocked by how hard the weakest scrub in the g-league works everyday (and by how good they are). It's the norm to be putting in hours every day on your game, plus weight-training, plus film, etc, and then a series of specialized training and workouts in the offseason.

These players generally know what they have to work at and they kill themselves to try to master it, there's just not that many people who can go out and do it night after night with the best of them. And those that do are amazing, not just regular/standard athletes.

[Bum Adebayo]

The point is that the most talented players need to work less to stay being relevant. A g-league player that works very hard is less talented than an average NBA player, and needs to keep working very hard to keep being there, otherwise he would be outclassed by other players.
I love Simmons, but he definitely doesn't need to work hard to stay relevant, his talent is ridiculous, so he can afford training less compared to most players and still be as good or better. I still have hope that Doc lights a fire under him though.

[76thBearCub]

I hope he doesn't get picked for the All Star game and it lights a fire under his ass.

[DCasey91]

Be nice if we could concentrate on that instead of all the crazy trades that can possibly be thought of after a few drinks.

Just be patient and wait on the next star that decides he wants out. Don't go begging for someone, then you will end up with a horrible deal wishing you could take it back. We haven't even mentioned wanting a 4 in a trade, always Beal, Lavine, and such...yet we always talk about trading Ben or Tobais.

Upgrading us at the 2 when we would totally suck at the 4 in the process.....makes no progress at all.

Ben’s perfect position in fact the position he’s played all his life before going to the NBA was the 4. (He’s an all nba/all star lvl Elite defender + Playmaking PF/Wing). That’s where I see him excel at. One hook or floater that’s solidified as his go to move is 18/8/8 territory.
Or something like 16/8/8 in the Playoffs (elite third best player on the team.)

That’s my realistic expectation from Ben. Not a scorer or some gun 3 lvl shot creator attached on. Not his game at all

And if we can trade Harris for the ideal 2 position player that fits with Embiid/Simmons now we’re talking. Slide Ben to the 3/4 (his correct position) and things will be great.

I know it’s hindsight but Embiid/Butler/Simmons and co. Was the ideal setup moving forward. (I know butler isn’t the perfect shooter but what he does more than makes up for our half court problems). He was always going to Miami, Lavine/Beal/Oladipo or potential young players is what the 76ers should be looking at now.

If you truely want to hang onto Ben, okay Lavine/oladipo fits that mold (booker too but that’s the same proposition with Beal).

Either that or you develop/grab one from another team earlier than expected.

So Maxey/Milton. If we sit tight one of them has to make the big jump in the coming years. Do you bank on that?

or a young player from another team that has the potential too in the next couple of years to get to an all star/all nba threat on the outside.

Highest priority comes first then other complimentary exchanges come later.

What to do with Harris’s contract?
Too much depth at the sg/wing position, who has that potential to pair with Embiid/Simmons long term?
Do we move Ben for something that’s a better fit with our best player and roll with Embiid/???/Harris?.

For me I like Ben way way more than Harris as the 3rd best player on our team.

For Beal - Ben is gone

Lavine/Oladipo - is there possibility of holding onto Ben? Maxey/Milton could be very enticing.

I honestly can’t see many other ideal options for us at the 2 position looking on the outside.

Lavine + Simmons backcourt is a very complimentary to each other to go along with Embiid. The upside is very high.

Harris’s value is high as it’s ever going to be now of there was ever a time to get something of value maybe just maybe there’s a chance.

(I was super high on the Markannen/Harris swap. Markannen was super undervalued, didn’t get an extension and isn’t a 2 but a stretch 4 but the flexibility moving forward would have been massive for us in years to come and also having a value trade piece if needed as well, best of both worlds).

I could be 100% wrong and Harris’s contract is immovable for our stud 2 position. Then okay the proposition of role players/lower scaled contracts from productive players could be on the cards too.

This isn’t trading for trading sake. In my eyes it’s for the team to gets it’s ideal core moving forward.

Too much reading for me tonight man , just saying Ben for Beal wouldn't work for us other than if you want to TRY to beat the Nets offensively. Good luck with that.

Ben for Oladipo when Oladipo can leave in a year to the Heat.....really? Lavine, be nice if we could keep both Ben and Lavine.

Might want to read it again my man lol

The only way to get Beal is trading Ben

Lavine/Oladipo I’d hold onto Ben and move him to his correct position (PF) as I like him way more than Harris as the third best player of the team.

Embiid/Lavine or Oladipo/Simmons the scaling is quite high I believe and very complimentary to each other.

We have young players (Maxey + Milton plus picks) that could entice other teams potentially. And if someone sees value in Harris now I’d trade him because is value is high (and he doesn’t fit long term imo).

But no I’m not trying to beat any team in the East it’s more the West that’s a greater competition for the next 2 years I believe (Clippers > Nets currently setup).


I like Ben as the the third best player I think he’s great in the role he plays in and very valuable to us when he’s not playing (Our offensive setup is bogus without him and same with Embiid). We shoot 40% from 3 with Ben and atrocious without him (29%).

The problem with Harris is he can’t carry a team. Lavine at least gives offense (great to elite scoring plus added playmaking) for the full game by himself. He might be a good enough outside threat for us. We have the defense to cover him. (Harris is negative defender too guys).

But yeah rambling on
But the trio I believe has very high upside and if we somehow get Lowry too someway then we could win it all this year. It’s open season this year. The year after will be a lot harder I believe.

Lowry
Lavine
Thybulle
Simmons
Embiid

Curry
Howard
??Bjelica?
Young player

Its a championship contender for sure.

[sixers4real]

Ben’s perfect position in fact the position he’s played all his life before going to the NBA was the 4. (He’s an all nba/all star lvl Elite defender + Playmaking PF/Wing). That’s where I see him excel at. One hook or floater that’s solidified as his go to move is 18/8/8 territory.
Or something like 16/8/8 in the Playoffs (elite third best player on the team.)

That’s my realistic expectation from Ben. Not a scorer or some gun 3 lvl shot creator attached on. Not his game at all

And if we can trade Harris for the ideal 2 position player that fits with Embiid/Simmons now we’re talking. Slide Ben to the 3/4 (his correct position) and things will be great.

I know it’s hindsight but Embiid/Butler/Simmons and co. Was the ideal setup moving forward. (I know butler isn’t the perfect shooter but what he does more than makes up for our half court problems). He was always going to Miami, Lavine/Beal/Oladipo or potential young players is what the 76ers should be looking at now.

If you truely want to hang onto Ben, okay Lavine/oladipo fits that mold (booker too but that’s the same proposition with Beal).

Either that or you develop/grab one from another team earlier than expected.

So Maxey/Milton. If we sit tight one of them has to make the big jump in the coming years. Do you bank on that?

or a young player from another team that has the potential too in the next couple of years to get to an all star/all nba threat on the outside.

Highest priority comes first then other complimentary exchanges come later.

What to do with Harris’s contract?
Too much depth at the sg/wing position, who has that potential to pair with Embiid/Simmons long term?
Do we move Ben for something that’s a better fit with our best player and roll with Embiid/???/Harris?.

For me I like Ben way way more than Harris as the 3rd best player on our team.

For Beal - Ben is gone

Lavine/Oladipo - is there possibility of holding onto Ben? Maxey/Milton could be very enticing.

I honestly can’t see many other ideal options for us at the 2 position looking on the outside.

Lavine + Simmons backcourt is a very complimentary to each other to go along with Embiid. The upside is very high.

Harris’s value is high as it’s ever going to be now of there was ever a time to get something of value maybe just maybe there’s a chance.

(I was super high on the Markannen/Harris swap. Markannen was super undervalued, didn’t get an extension and isn’t a 2 but a stretch 4 but the flexibility moving forward would have been massive for us in years to come and also having a value trade piece if needed as well, best of both worlds).

I could be 100% wrong and Harris’s contract is immovable for our stud 2 position. Then okay the proposition of role players/lower scaled contracts from productive players could be on the cards too.

This isn’t trading for trading sake. In my eyes it’s for the team to gets it’s ideal core moving forward.

Too much reading for me tonight man , just saying Ben for Beal wouldn't work for us other than if you want to TRY to beat the Nets offensively. Good luck with that.

Ben for Oladipo when Oladipo can leave in a year to the Heat.....really? Lavine, be nice if we could keep both Ben and Lavine.

Might want to read it again my man lol

The only way to get Beal is trading Ben

Lavine/Oladipo I’d hold onto Ben and move him to his correct position (PF) as I like him way more than Harris as the third best player of the team.

Embiid/Lavine or Oladipo/Simmons the scaling is quite high I believe and very complimentary to each other.

We have young players (Maxey + Milton plus picks) that could entice other teams potentially. And if someone sees value in Harris now I’d trade him because is value is high (and he doesn’t fit long term imo).

But no I’m not trying to beat any team in the East it’s more the West that’s a greater competition for the next 2 years I believe (Clippers > Nets currently setup).


I like Ben as the the third best player I think he’s great in the role he plays in and very valuable to us when he’s not playing (Our offensive setup is bogus without him and same with Embiid). We shoot 40% from 3 with Ben and atrocious without him (29%).

The problem with Harris is he can’t carry a team. Lavine at least gives offense (great to elite scoring plus added playmaking) for the full game by himself. He might be a good enough outside threat for us. We have the defense to cover him. (Harris is negative defender too guys).

But yeah rambling on
But the trio I believe has very high upside and if we somehow get Lowry too someway then we could win it all this year. It’s open season this year. The year after will be a lot harder I believe.

Lowry
Lavine
Thybulle
Simmons
Embiid

Curry
Howard
??Bjelica?
Young player

Its a championship contender for sure.

How exactly are we getting both Lowry and Lavine?
Who's taking Harris contract? Bulls? Why? are we giving them all of our FRPs and swaps?

[76ciology]

Watch on YouTube

If that jumper wont come. Develop that hookshot and improve those FTs

[DCasey91]

Watch on YouTube

If that jumper wont come. Develop that hookshot and improve those FTs

Yep for Ben I would prioritize hook/floater and improving his free throw rate over anything else. Work on the Roll man skills. Always saw him more as a PF/SF playmaking elite defender.

The huge unlock though is that corner three which allows Embiid by himself in the paint and Ben not in the dunkers spot. The weakness so isn’t so much Ben himself it’s that there isn’t a direct threat on the outside the puts pressure on the opponents defence because they can sag/cheat and double Embiid easier.

Spot up shooters don’t have that kind of gravity unless your an offensive engine to boot (Curry or old school Miller would an example) they could punish you in more ways than just shooting. Or a legit elite 3 lvl scorer.

Everyone talks about gravity but it’s true elite offensive talents soak up so much defensive attention even when they aren’t scoring/shooting well. because the threat at any time in a game is a reality and causes defenders to scramble or the focus is always on them.

It’ll help Ben’s game surprisingly a lot more because of the after effect.
Ben had an elite stretch last year I’m hoping that it is his actual ceiling something like 20/7/8 with Elite defense. He’s very capable of that.

(Lillard still got a key bucket and made plays down the stretch even after being locked up, they are that good, though Korkmaz/Harris at no point in time should ever be on Dame lol that’s where switching philosophies are hugely flawed.)

[76ciology]

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

If that jumper wont come. Develop that hookshot and improve those FTs

Yep for Ben I would prioritize hook/floater and improving his free throw rate over anything else. Work on the Roll man skills. Always saw him more as a PF/SF playmaking elite defender.

The huge unlock though is that corner three which allows Embiid by himself in the paint and Ben not in the dunkers spot. The weakness so isn’t so much Ben himself it’s that there isn’t a direct threat on the outside the puts pressure on the opponents defence because they can sag/cheat and double Embiid easier.

Spot up shooters don’t have that kind of gravity unless your an offensive engine to boot (Curry or old school Miller would an example) they could punish you in more ways than just shooting. Or a legit elite 3 lvl scorer.

Everyone talks about gravity but it’s true elite offensive talents soak up so much defensive attention even when they aren’t scoring/shooting well. because the threat at any time in a game is a reality and causes defenders to scramble or the focus is always on them.

It’ll help Ben’s game surprisingly a lot more because of the after effect.
Ben had an elite stretch last year I’m hoping that it is his actual ceiling something like 20/7/8 with Elite defense. He’s very capable of that.

(Lillard still got a key bucket and made plays down the stretch even after being locked up, they are that good, though Korkmaz/Harris at no point in time should ever be on Dame lol that’s where switching philosophies are hugely flawed.)

Right now, i dont expect Ben to be a good shooter. I dont expect him to space the floor. I dont expect him to pull defenders away from the paint.

And its OK.

Biid’s development into the league’s best mid range shooter, kind of made that into a non issue.

What I want from him is being a useful player on crunch time and a player who can be a primary option on offense whenever Biid is not on the floor.

And I believe this can happen if be develop a very accurate hookshot or floaters.

How will that happen?

Hookshots or floaters allows him to be more effective if he runs the snug pick and roll. With Embiid or D12. This allows him to be a primary option on offense when Biid is not playing.

Hookshots or floaters allows him to be a better scorer at the post. This allows him to be a useful player on offense on crunch time. More than a guy at the dunker spot.

And improving hookshots or floaters is way more realistic than him developing his jumper.

[Bum Adebayo]

He can develop all of hookshots, floater and jumpshots, there is no need to put a limit on what he can or should do, because sky is the limit for him. He just needs to train harder.

[76ciology]

What I want from him is being a useful player on crunch time and a player who can be a primary option on offense whenever Biid is not on the floor.

And I believe this can happen if be develop a very accurate hookshot or floaters.

How will that happen?

Hookshots or floaters allows him to be more effective if he runs the snug pick and roll. With Embiid or D12. This allows him to be a primary option on offense when Biid is not playing.

Hookshots or floaters allows him to be a better scorer at the post. This allows him to be a useful player on offense on crunch time. More than a guy at the dunker spot.

And improving hookshots or floaters is way more realistic than him developing his jumper.

Hookshots and floaters

[Skates]

Hookshots, floaters, bank shots and a little 8-12 foot stop and pop are what I have been hoping for Simmons to develop, the occasional standstill three is fine, but he is at his best attacking the basket and also dishing off of that to open shooters.

The narrative that Simmons doesn't train or practice hard enough needs to stop. He is hitting and surpassing levels he got to before the Covid shutdown last year, his defense is even more fierce and having Sam Cassell in his ear is paying big dividends. If he had a couple of athletes in the starting rotation to get out and run with him, their defense and fastbreak off turnovers, missed shots and even made baskets would be terrifying. Moving Horford has helped unclog the floor for every one of Simons, Embiid and Harris, now they need some actual running mates that can keep up and compliment them.

[51X3RF4N]

I like what I heard about how he has been trying to adjust his mentality the past few weeks. That it takes time and effort to work to change the kind of player you naturally are. Like, he is a pass first point. Always has been. He thrives on setting up his teammates for buckets. He loves it.

And now he's being asked to go get his own buckets.

So if he can continue to shift his mentality, and with the help of Embiid supporting him and telling him to go get it.

Embiid the other night after a successful post up from Ben, called for them to run it back and fed Ben the ball in the post himself to make sure Ben gets the message loud and clear. "We need you to be aggressive and score the ball".

If this can continue, we could see some really interesting things out of Ben the rest of the way.

My fear is that it's just temporary and a switch hasn't actually been flipped full time, permanent.

If he wants to be a champion, he has to think he is going to score 40 every night because he's capable and nobody can stop him. Thats the mentality he really needs. I'm gonna score 40 and get 15 assists. Joel's gonna score 40 and get 15 rebounds. We are both gonna play lock down defense. Everyone else will get their shots as catch and shoot role players. Tobias is gonna take over and score 20 when Joel and Ben sit...

Ben has to start using pull up mid range jump shots to unlock his game even further. Get contact on EVERY drive and finish or get the foul. Start using baseline step back jump shots out of the post.

Truly unlock how unguardable he can be. Make the defense pay.

But alas, I don't think after all these years he is just going to be a different player than we've seen before.

T'would be nice and T'would solve many a problem though if it did happen.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

[DCasey91]

I like what I heard about how he has been trying to adjust his mentality the past few weeks. That it takes time and effort to work to change the kind of player you naturally are. Like, he is a pass first point. Always has been. He thrives on setting up his teammates for buckets. He loves it.

And now he's being asked to go get his own buckets.

So if he can continue to shift his mentality, and with the help of Embiid supporting him and telling him to go get it.

Embiid the other night after a successful post up from Ben, called for them to run it back and fed Ben the ball in the post himself to make sure Ben gets the message loud and clear. "We need you to be aggressive and score the ball".

If this can continue, we could see some really interesting things out of Ben the rest of the way.

My fear is that it's just temporary and a switch hasn't actually been flipped full time, permanent.

If he wants to be a champion, he has to think he is going to score 40 every night because he's capable and nobody can stop him. Thats the mentality he really needs. I'm gonna score 40 and get 15 assists. Joel's gonna score 40 and get 15 rebounds. We are both gonna play lock down defense. Everyone else will get their shots as catch and shoot role players. Tobias is gonna take over and score 20 when Joel and Ben sit...

Ben has to start using pull up mid range jump shots to unlock his game even further. Get contact on EVERY drive and finish or get the foul. Start using baseline step back jump shots out of the post.

Truly unlock how unguardable he can be. Make the defense pay.

But alas, I don't think after all these years he is just going to be a different player than we've seen before.

T'would be nice and T'would solve many a problem though if it did happen.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

I truely believe he turned the corner for that 20 game stretch (20/7/9) or something like that with of course elite defense last year before his injury. That was his base anyway (both have/had absurd bases to work from).

70% from the free throw line at 7+ attempts a game is easy 20 points for Ben. I think today was his Neo moment. He coulda had way more but he was utterly gassed out. He started this year injured because his movement wasn’t as great. That’s all back now. People forget he was putting up Lebron type numbers in games in his rookie year.
He finishing skills on the right hand, once he unlocks that with hooks/runners/floaters and a little midrange sprinkle in he’s basically Lebron 2.0.
Everyone keeps harping on it but he has that type of scary ceiling.

Playoffs are a different beast altogether but if he averages 18/8/8 that’s a platform to go off on. Elite players rarely win before a certain age anyway. So we’ve taken it for granted how quickly they both got (both put all star production impact basically when they walked into the NBA, that doesn’t just happen like that).

22/8/8 being a DPOY contender and a top ten player is the next step in Ben’s evolution (next year). He’s very capable of that. Beyond that is the scary but brilliant part for us.

If he turns it on like this it was always 2/3’s of the way to a championship (just sucks we can’t find the third key piece but that’s more to do with management than Embiid/Simmons respectively).

Just wished they had a vet all nba guard from the beginning that kind of dividend is huge for them both. Like a different but similar trajectory to OKC.

[Eyeamok]

I have started burning cinnamon before games to help Ben stay consistent . If this is truly the start of unlocked Ben Simmons how crazy would it have been if he had been traded and had started playing like this on another team along with multiple 1st round picks?

Doc Rivers and his staff have done a great job so far with Harris and seemingly with Ben. If this continues Doc should win Coach of the year, basketball records be damned.

It's still early but let's hope this is the start of something beautiful and consistent.

[sodmoraes]

It seems Ben ft is improved, maybe he can get to 70% this year? It would be huge for him if he can became a 75% ft shooter one day, as it alows him to be more agressive.

Sent from my SM-G920I using RealGM mobile app

[Bum Adebayo]

I mean, this is hardly surprising for anyone who has been paying attention to his situation. Brett has been holding back our players, Embiid and Harris are playing significantly better compared to last season, Simmons not following them until now is just because he is weak mentally, he needs more time to recover from Brett, but it seems he is starting to heal, the difference between first games and last games is astronomical.

[ConstableChaos]

Simmons is attempting a lot more layups with his left hand (as opposed to the awkward right hand twisting things he was doing) which I think is why he misses a fair few.

If he can get the left hand finish in traffic down and sink some FT it's done