NBA MVP Discussion 20/21 (Fresh poll ➥ Vote)

Dom801e · Post #741 » by **Dom801e** » Fri Feb 12, 2021 5:37 am

These discussions highlight what a great spot the game is in. Multiple MVP caliber players and also a lot of young future stars in the league right now.

GSP · Post #742 » by **GSP** » Fri Feb 12, 2021 5:50 am

Why is Steph above Dame in the Mvp discussion exactly?

Before todays games (they both won)

Dame

29/5/7 on .633ts
26.7 Per
.221 ws/48
+10.5 on/off

Steph

30/6/6 on .656ts
25.6 Per
.208 ws/48
+2.2 on/off

Blazers have been higher in the seeding basically all season. Blazers and Warriors are similar caliber teams when both are on the floor but Blazers are much worse when Dame is on the bench compared to the Warriors. Cj has missed half the season at this point and Dames "Draymond" in Nurk has missed half the season too. Steph dropped 62 on them but Dame lit them up the game right before in a 25pt win

Dame has a much better offensive cast but one of the worst defensive casts in the league. Steph is the opposite he has a very bad offensive cast but one of the best defensive casts. Overall team success and numbers show Dame is having a better season

clyde21 · Post #743 » by **clyde21** » Fri Feb 12, 2021 5:51 am

GSP wrote:Why is Steph above Dame in the Mvp discussion exactly?

Before todays games (they both won)

Dame

29/5/7 on .633ts
26.7 Per
.221 ws/48
+10.5 on/off

Steph

30/6/6 on .656ts
25.6 Per
.208 ws/48
+2.2 on/off

Blazers have been higher in the seeding basically all season. Blazers and Warriors are similar caliber teams when both are on the floor but Blazers are much worse when Dame is on the bench compared to the Warriors. Cj has missed half the season at this point and Dames "Draymond" in Nurk has missed half the season too. Steph dropped 62 on them but Dame lit them up the game right before in a 25pt win

Dame has a much better offensive cast but one of the worst defensive casts in the league. Steph is the opposite he has a very bad offensive cast but one of the best defensive casts. Overall team success and numbers show Dame is having a better season

you're right, Steph's not even a top20 player we should remember that

GSP · Post #744 » by **GSP** » Fri Feb 12, 2021 5:54 am

clyde21 wrote:
GSP wrote:Why is Steph above Dame in the Mvp discussion exactly?

Before todays games (they both won)

Dame

29/5/7 on .633ts
26.7 Per
.221 ws/48
+10.5 on/off

Steph

30/6/6 on .656ts
25.6 Per
.208 ws/48
+2.2 on/off

Blazers have been higher in the seeding basically all season. Blazers and Warriors are similar caliber teams when both are on the floor but Blazers are much worse when Dame is on the bench compared to the Warriors. Cj has missed half the season at this point and Dames "Draymond" in Nurk has missed half the season too. Steph dropped 62 on them but Dame lit them up the game right before in a 25pt win

Dame has a much better offensive cast but one of the worst defensive casts in the league. Steph is the opposite he has a very bad offensive cast but one of the best defensive casts. Overall team success and numbers show Dame is having a better season

you're right, Steph's not even a top20 player we should remember that

Stop it. Hes easily top 10 and prolly a better player than Dame but he shouldnt be higher in Mvp consideration ATM. Its more for how little Dame is talked about and underrated. Dame is having the better season

Impuniti · Post #745 » by **Impuniti** » Fri Feb 12, 2021 5:56 am

GSP wrote:Why is Steph above Dame in the Mvp discussion exactly?

Before todays games (they both won)

Dame

29/5/7 on .633ts
26.7 Per
.221 ws/48
+10.5 on/off

Steph

30/6/6 on .656ts
25.6 Per
.208 ws/48
+2.2 on/off

Blazers have been higher in the seeding basically all season. Blazers and Warriors are similar caliber teams when both are on the floor but Blazers are much worse when Dame is on the bench compared to the Warriors. Cj has missed half the season at this point and Dames "Draymond" in Nurk has missed half the season too. Steph dropped 62 on them but Dame lit them up the game right before in a 25pt win

Dame has a much better offensive cast but one of the worst defensive casts in the league. Steph is the opposite he has a very bad offensive cast but one of the best defensive casts. Overall team success and numbers show Dame is having a better season

What a bunch of garbage. Steph has been the best player so far into this season and is playing for the team that finished dead last in the NBA last season. I wonder why you didn't put their shooting numbers, an area where Made in Taiwan Steph is significantly lower by a wide margin every single season.

GSP · Post #746 » by **GSP** » Fri Feb 12, 2021 5:57 am

Impuniti wrote:
GSP wrote:Why is Steph above Dame in the Mvp discussion exactly?

Before todays games (they both won)

Dame

29/5/7 on .633ts
26.7 Per
.221 ws/48
+10.5 on/off

Steph

30/6/6 on .656ts
25.6 Per
.208 ws/48
+2.2 on/off

Blazers have been higher in the seeding basically all season. Blazers and Warriors are similar caliber teams when both are on the floor but Blazers are much worse when Dame is on the bench compared to the Warriors. Cj has missed half the season at this point and Dames "Draymond" in Nurk has missed half the season too. Steph dropped 62 on them but Dame lit them up the game right before in a 25pt win

Dame has a much better offensive cast but one of the worst defensive casts in the league. Steph is the opposite he has a very bad offensive cast but one of the best defensive casts. Overall team success and numbers show Dame is having a better season

What a bunch of garbage. Steph has been the best player so far into this season and is playing for the team that finished dead last in the NBA last season. I wonder why you didn't put their shooting numbers, an area where Made in Taiwan Steph is significantly lower by a wide margin every single season.

LMAO you Steph stans are lunatics

He hasnt been better than Bron, Kd, Embiid, Jokic or Kawhi this season.

And i put the true shooting numbers....so i dont know what you mean thats generally the measure used for scoring efficiency

Swag · Post #747 » by **Swag** » Fri Feb 12, 2021 6:06 am

If the Warriors enter the top 4, they gotta give it to Curry.

Lebron is playing with another top 5 player - Curry is playing with trash.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Down3223 · Post #748 » by **Down3223** » Fri Feb 12, 2021 6:06 am

As Emid loses to Portland..lebron's grip tightens as the lead in the MVP race

righterwriter · Post #749 » by **righterwriter** » Fri Feb 12, 2021 6:11 am

GSP wrote:
Impuniti wrote:
GSP wrote:Why is Steph above Dame in the Mvp discussion exactly?

Before todays games (they both won)

Dame

29/5/7 on .633ts
26.7 Per
.221 ws/48
+10.5 on/off

Steph

30/6/6 on .656ts
25.6 Per
.208 ws/48
+2.2 on/off

Blazers have been higher in the seeding basically all season. Blazers and Warriors are similar caliber teams when both are on the floor but Blazers are much worse when Dame is on the bench compared to the Warriors. Cj has missed half the season at this point and Dames "Draymond" in Nurk has missed half the season too. Steph dropped 62 on them but Dame lit them up the game right before in a 25pt win

Dame has a much better offensive cast but one of the worst defensive casts in the league. Steph is the opposite he has a very bad offensive cast but one of the best defensive casts. Overall team success and numbers show Dame is having a better season

What a bunch of garbage. Steph has been the best player so far into this season and is playing for the team that finished dead last in the NBA last season. I wonder why you didn't put their shooting numbers, an area where Made in Taiwan Steph is significantly lower by a wide margin every single season.

LMAO you Steph stans are lunatics

He hasnt been better than Bron, Kd, Embiid, Jokic or Kawhi this season.

And i put the true shooting numbers....so i dont know what you mean thats generally the measure used for scoring efficiency

As an individual player he's been better than Kawhi and Embiid. Don't just look at record to make the case that these guys are more valuable as they have absolutely stacked rosters. If Curry had a Paul George or a Ben Simmons instead of Kelly Oubre, he'd be putting up even crazier numbers and the team would be near the top of the conference standings.

KD has had a great comeback but has only played in 66% of games, so he shouldn't be in consideration at this very moment. If he can play in 90% of the games (equivalent to about 70 games season in a regular year) then he can be in the running.

Jokic has been great, Bron is Bron. These are the only two who come close to Curry at this point if you actually watch these guys play individually and see the impact they have with the talent around them.

GSP · Post #750 » by **GSP** » Fri Feb 12, 2021 6:11 am

Swag wrote:If the Warriors enter the top 4, they gotta give it to Curry.

Lebron is playing with another top 5 player - Curry is playing with trash.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Ad hasnt been close to a top 5 player this season hes had a slow start and is getting by on name recognition. Hes def better than any teammate Steph has still but he might not even deserve to make the allstar game this season TBH def not as a starter

LilLeeroy · Post #751 » by **LilLeeroy** » Fri Feb 12, 2021 6:26 am

GSP wrote:
Impuniti wrote:
GSP wrote:Why is Steph above Dame in the Mvp discussion exactly?

Before todays games (they both won)

Dame

29/5/7 on .633ts
26.7 Per
.221 ws/48
+10.5 on/off

Steph

30/6/6 on .656ts
25.6 Per
.208 ws/48
+2.2 on/off

Blazers have been higher in the seeding basically all season. Blazers and Warriors are similar caliber teams when both are on the floor but Blazers are much worse when Dame is on the bench compared to the Warriors. Cj has missed half the season at this point and Dames "Draymond" in Nurk has missed half the season too. Steph dropped 62 on them but Dame lit them up the game right before in a 25pt win

Dame has a much better offensive cast but one of the worst defensive casts in the league. Steph is the opposite he has a very bad offensive cast but one of the best defensive casts. Overall team success and numbers show Dame is having a better season

What a bunch of garbage. Steph has been the best player so far into this season and is playing for the team that finished dead last in the NBA last season. I wonder why you didn't put their shooting numbers, an area where Made in Taiwan Steph is significantly lower by a wide margin every single season.

LMAO you Steph stans are lunatics

He hasnt been better than Bron, Kd, Embiid, Jokic or Kawhi this season.

And i put the true shooting numbers....so i dont know what you mean thats generally the measure used for scoring efficiency

Steph
30/6/6 on .660ts
25.6 Per
.208 ws/48
+2.4 on/off

Lebron
25.5/7.3/8 on .597ts
23.9 Per
.201 ws/48
+11.7 on/off

GSP · Post #752 » by **GSP** » Fri Feb 12, 2021 6:44 am

LilLeeroy wrote:
GSP wrote:
Impuniti wrote:What a bunch of garbage. Steph has been the best player so far into this season and is playing for the team that finished dead last in the NBA last season. I wonder why you didn't put their shooting numbers, an area where Made in Taiwan Steph is significantly lower by a wide margin every single season.

LMAO you Steph stans are lunatics

He hasnt been better than Bron, Kd, Embiid, Jokic or Kawhi this season.

And i put the true shooting numbers....so i dont know what you mean thats generally the measure used for scoring efficiency

Steph
30/6/6 on .660ts
25.6 Per
.208 ws/48
+2.4 on/off

Lebron
25.5/7.3/8 on .597ts
23.9 Per
.201 ws/48
+11.7 on/off

Looks like a clear edge for Bron to me. The on/off numbers show some of his defensive impact. Lakers have been the best defense in the league for most of the season (it was Philly early) and hes arguably been their best defensive player while Steph is well below average at best and a liability against most top offenses

Theyre also 4-1 without Ad now too

art_tatum · Post #753 » by **art_tatum** » Fri Feb 12, 2021 6:46 am

LilLeeroy wrote:
GSP wrote:
Impuniti wrote:What a bunch of garbage. Steph has been the best player so far into this season and is playing for the team that finished dead last in the NBA last season. I wonder why you didn't put their shooting numbers, an area where Made in Taiwan Steph is significantly lower by a wide margin every single season.

LMAO you Steph stans are lunatics

He hasnt been better than Bron, Kd, Embiid, Jokic or Kawhi this season.

And i put the true shooting numbers....so i dont know what you mean thats generally the measure used for scoring efficiency

Steph
30/6/6 on .660ts
25.6 Per
.208 ws/48
+2.4 on/off

Lebron
25.5/7.3/8 on .597ts
23.9 Per
.201 ws/48
+11.7 on/off

On off is also dependent on teammates. Rpm is a better measure and curry is top 2 in the nba with lebron. Pretty much within a point. So yes with the other numbers posted, clearly curry has been better.

Also jokics team has the same record as the warriors now. Crazy.

Cj (3rd in the nba In RPM) played 13 games and the blazers were 8-5. They've been a .500 team without him.

Imo it's still too early to see who is clear mvp. Embiid is leading for me even with tonight's loss.

Dupp · Post #754 » by **Dupp** » Fri Feb 12, 2021 8:02 am

GSP wrote:Why is Steph above Dame in the Mvp discussion exactly?

Before todays games (they both won)

Dame

29/5/7 on .633ts
26.7 Per
.221 ws/48
+10.5 on/off

Steph

30/6/6 on .656ts
25.6 Per
.208 ws/48
+2.2 on/off

Blazers have been higher in the seeding basically all season. Blazers and Warriors are similar caliber teams when both are on the floor but Blazers are much worse when Dame is on the bench compared to the Warriors. Cj has missed half the season at this point and Dames "Draymond" in Nurk has missed half the season too. Steph dropped 62 on them but Dame lit them up the game right before in a 25pt win

Dame has a much better offensive cast but one of the worst defensive casts in the league. Steph is the opposite he has a very bad offensive cast but one of the best defensive casts. Overall team success and numbers show Dame is having a better season

You probably answered your own question at the end of your post considering they both pretty much only impact the offensive end.

I get your point though, they should be similarly ranked for mvp.

Dupp · Post #755 » by **Dupp** » Fri Feb 12, 2021 8:06 am

Record aside Joker had been the best player in the league this season.

JN61 · Post #756 » by **JN61** » Fri Feb 12, 2021 9:30 am

Swag wrote:If the Warriors enter the top 4, they gotta give it to Curry.

Lebron is playing with another top 5 player - Curry is playing with trash.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

That is why neither LeBron or Curry leads the rankings. It is Embiid under any reasonable take.

LilLeeroy · Post #757 » by **LilLeeroy** » Fri Feb 12, 2021 10:16 am

art_tatum wrote:
LilLeeroy wrote:
GSP wrote:
LMAO you Steph stans are lunatics

He hasnt been better than Bron, Kd, Embiid, Jokic or Kawhi this season.

And i put the true shooting numbers....so i dont know what you mean thats generally the measure used for scoring efficiency

Steph
30/6/6 on .660ts
25.6 Per
.208 ws/48
+2.4 on/off

Lebron
25.5/7.3/8 on .597ts
23.9 Per
.201 ws/48
+11.7 on/off

On off is also dependent on teammates. Rpm is a better measure and curry is top 2 in the nba with lebron. Pretty much within a point. So yes with the other numbers posted, clearly curry has been better.

Also jokics team has the same record as the warriors now. Crazy.

Cj (3rd in the nba In RPM) played 13 games and the blazers were 8-5. They've been a .500 team without him.

Imo it's still too early to see who is clear mvp. Embiid is leading for me even with tonight's loss.

Yeah sorry I wasn't actually using Netrtg because it is good metric for comparing two players (it's not), those were just the stats that poster used to argue Damian Lilard's season so far is superior to Curry's.

And even just those stats make it clear that Curry has been the better offensive player by a significant margin, and he's saying people are being lunatics for comparing Curry to LeBron this year.

Now he's acting like the reason the netrtg is so different is because Curry is a defensive sieve (he's not) while a 36 year old LeBron who hasn't been good on defense since Miami is a playing defense like Kawhi Leonard on the Spurs.

LesGrossman · Post #758 » by **LesGrossman** » Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:39 am

The most interesting part in the whole thing is the business side imho. To see how hard the league, ESPN and Bleacher are pushing to make LeBron relevant in the conversation is just amazing and it shows the extent to which this is a business, not a sport. Also explains how and why the superstars promoted by the league factually get a different ruleset from the 300 regular guys. Theres no doubt that talent wise the league is in a great spot right now. Its just that they havent realized how to sell it yet, so they fall back to the safe old thing that worked for the last fifteen years.

As for MVP, i dont care for unwritten rules (winning record, best player on best team, blabla). Most valuable for their respective teams (meaning the decline that would happen if they werent playing) i'd say Steph, Joker, Kawhi, KD, Embiid. Most valuable towards best player in the league right now probably KD, Steph, Joker, EMbiid, Kawhi, LeBron/AD (see what happened for three or four games in a row without AD? Overtime each game vs bottom dwellers...). Its crazy, like the covid situation brings out super powers in everyone. Suddenly 50+ point games are a regular thing...

Homer38 · Post #759 » by **Homer38** » Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:24 pm

Impuniti wrote:
GSP wrote:Why is Steph above Dame in the Mvp discussion exactly?

Before todays games (they both won)

Dame

29/5/7 on .633ts
26.7 Per
.221 ws/48
+10.5 on/off

Steph

30/6/6 on .656ts
25.6 Per
.208 ws/48
+2.2 on/off

Blazers have been higher in the seeding basically all season. Blazers and Warriors are similar caliber teams when both are on the floor but Blazers are much worse when Dame is on the bench compared to the Warriors. Cj has missed half the season at this point and Dames "Draymond" in Nurk has missed half the season too. Steph dropped 62 on them but Dame lit them up the game right before in a 25pt win

Dame has a much better offensive cast but one of the worst defensive casts in the league. Steph is the opposite he has a very bad offensive cast but one of the best defensive casts. Overall team success and numbers show Dame is having a better season

What a bunch of garbage. Steph has been the best player so far into this season and is playing for the team that finished dead last in the NBA last season. I wonder why you didn't put their shooting numbers, an area where Made in Taiwan Steph is significantly lower by a wide margin every single season.

The Blazers without Lillard would also be one of the worst teams in the league .... Curry has a great year and deserves to be considered before Dame but to win the MVP,the warriors only have 2 games over .500 right now, it will take more than that to win the MVP. Just ask Kobe Bryant in 2006.

Homer38 · Post #760 » by **Homer38** » Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:29 pm

LesGrossman wrote:The most interesting part in the whole thing is the business side imho. To see how hard the league, ESPN and Bleacher are pushing to make LeBron relevant in the conversation is just amazing and it shows the extent to which this is a business, not a sport. Also explains how and why the superstars promoted by the league factually get a different ruleset from the 300 regular guys. Theres no doubt that talent wise the league is in a great spot right now. Its just that they havent realized how to sell it yet, so they fall back to the safe old thing that worked for the last fifteen years.

As for MVP, i dont care for unwritten rules (winning record, best player on best team, blabla). Most valuable for their respective teams (meaning the decline that would happen if they werent playing) i'd say Steph, Joker, Kawhi, KD, Embiid. Most valuable towards best player in the league right now probably KD, Steph, Joker, EMbiid, Kawhi, LeBron/AD (see what happened for three or four games in a row without AD? Overtime each game vs bottom dwellers...). Its crazy, like the covid situation brings out super powers in everyone. Suddenly 50+ point games are a regular thing...

If you are consistent in your criteria, LeBron deserved the MVP in 2018 according to your criteria .... Win 50 games with a team that would have lost 60 without LBJ and the rockets had Chris Paul but I know you will change your criteria once again.And LOL at KD and Kawhi.The Nets are only 15-12 with Kyrie and Harden and and he missed way too many game, even if it's not his fault and the clippers have a losing record without George right now.

Who is the MVP so far?