2021 Draft thread. Woo! 15th pick here we come! Hoo. Ray.

[pcbothwel]

Nice. I think he's strictly a 2. He needs to get stronger, but what 18 year old doesn't, and he's got the frame to add a fair amount of muscle - so that shouldn't be a problem after his rookie year. Notice a couple times he double-pumped after jumping - he's a good athlete.

He's a 2 the way Haliburton, Beal, etc. are 2's. He doesnt even turn 19 until the start of the NBA pre season next year.
Im done with the traditional PG. PG's today are elite defensively and/or elite scorers.... nobody cares about assist. Look at the best teams.

Sixers: Curry/Simmons. Curry plays/defends 1's and scores at an elite level while Simmons is the transition PG that can defend 4 positions.
Lakers: Schroder averages 5 assist/36, while Lebron is really the playmaker
Bucks: Jrue is 3rd in assist behind Giannis and Middleton. He plays defense and scores efficiently.
Jazz: Conley averages 7 ast/36, but Mitchell and Ingles do a ton of playmaking.

Having a mediocre defender/scorer that racks up assist gets you nowhere as they swallow up possessions. I'd rather play Beal with another combo guard that plays defense. Beal would be perfect with Suggs, Cade, Butler, Springer, etc. Guys that can defend 2+ positions, move the ball/playmaker, and score efficiently.

[nate33]

I was actually kinda impressed with Isaac Mobley during that game. But then I went and checked his stats and I see that he's a 44% FT shooter.

At least his robust frame suggests that his brother Evan has the genetics to put on more weight.

[NatP4]

Yep, we already know Springer is going to be a plus defender, he gets steals, blocks, and rebounds well. He’s currently shooting the 3 at 54%!! And 75% from the free throw line and gets there a ton. He should basically be a senior in high school right now. Suggs is almost a year and a half older than Springer.

I love the Kyle Lowry comparison. Best way to describe him is an absolute dog. Not a natural ball handler/playmaker, but he does generate a decent amount of assists. That was a good Georgia team that he just did that to.

[NatP4]

Another G-League ignite game at 3pm ET on ESPNU, for anyone interested.

[DCZards]

Another G-League ignite game at 3pm ET on ESPNU, for anyone interested.

Thanks, I'm going to check it out, especially to see Kuminga. I've been impressed by some of the videos I've seen of him thus far...he could very well be the best player in the 2021 draft.

[Ruzious]

Get Mobley, and I'll settle for Butler and Mitchell of Baylor - and forget about Suggs and Cade, so we don't have to worry about which one's better.

Sucks that Baylor's not scheduled to play again until the 20th - we can't see our future backcourt. They're only 6'3 and 6'2, but they will both pester the heck out of the opposing backcourt. Hey, they're no smaller than Portland's great backcourt.

Read on Twitter

Best guard duo in college basketball.

Interesting to see that other knowledgable posters don't have Butler and Mitchell rated as highly. viewtopic.php?p=88765701#p88765701

[pcbothwel]

Mitchell is a great story...but:
- 3.2 rebounds/36 is atrocious. That and his passing show only mediocre IQ offensively
- Age: He'll turn 23 before the start of next season (4 years older than Springer)
- Sample Size: Mitchell played 580 minutes as a Fresh and 972 minutes last year as a Sophomore where he had a TS of 51%, 31% from 3, and 66% from the line. I simply cant trust this 50% from 3 scorcher he's currently putting together right now.
- 20% usage for a soon to be 23 y/o guard is REALLY low. That would be 4th on his team and the lowest of any 1st round guard in this draft. (3rd lowest of any 1st round prospect in the draft from any position).

He's a player, but not a top 20-25 pick... But who knows.

[Ruzious]

Mitchell is a great story...but:
- 3.2 rebounds/36 is atrocious. That and his passing show only mediocre IQ offensively
- Age: He'll turn 23 before the start of next season (4 years older than Springer)
- Sample Size: Mitchell played 580 minutes as a Fresh and 972 minutes last year as a Sophomore where he had a TS of 51%, 31% from 3, and 66% from the line. I simply cant trust this 50% from 3 scorcher he's currently putting together right now.
- 20% usage for a soon to be 23 y/o guard is REALLY low. That would be 4th on his team and the lowest of any 1st round guard in this draft. (3rd lowest of any 1st round prospect in the draft from any position).

He's a player, but not a top 20-25 pick... But who knows.

Fair enough - I can see people being more than skeptical about whether Mitchell's dramatic improvement is for real. I think he's a very later bloomer who's not a very good rebounding guard. The thing that convinces me these guys current stats are for real is - they're the 2 leaders of a dominant undefeated team. And I love their defense.

[nate33]

Mitchell is a great story...but:
- 3.2 rebounds/36 is atrocious. That and his passing show only mediocre IQ offensively
- Age: He'll turn 23 before the start of next season (4 years older than Springer)
- Sample Size: Mitchell played 580 minutes as a Fresh and 972 minutes last year as a Sophomore where he had a TS of 51%, 31% from 3, and 66% from the line. I simply cant trust this 50% from 3 scorcher he's currently putting together right now.
- 20% usage for a soon to be 23 y/o guard is REALLY low. That would be 4th on his team and the lowest of any 1st round guard in this draft. (3rd lowest of any 1st round prospect in the draft from any position).

He's a player, but not a top 20-25 pick... But who knows.

Fair enough - I can see people being more than skeptical about whether Mitchell's dramatic improvement is for real. I think he's a very later bloomer who's not a very good rebounding guard. The thing that convinces me these guys current stats are for real is - they're the 2 leaders of a dominant undefeated team. And I love their defense.

You never know about guys like that. Maybe he turns out to be the next Eric Snow. Snow played alongside the highly touted Shawn Respert at Michigan State. Snow was just a steady defensive sidekick to Respert in college, but ended up playing 13 years as a pro. Another good example is Steve Blake. Dixon was the star of that Maryland squad, but Blake ended up having the better NBA career.

On the other hand, I'm sure someone could put together a list of heady defensive college guards who just couldn't make it work in the NBA because they simply lacked the skill and talent to get any kind of separation against NBA defenses.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Nice. I think he's strictly a 2. He needs to get stronger, but what 18 year old doesn't, and he's got the frame to add a fair amount of muscle - so that shouldn't be a problem after his rookie year. Notice a couple times he double-pumped after jumping - he's a good athlete.

He's a 2 the way Haliburton, Beal, etc. are 2's. He doesnt even turn 19 until the start of the NBA pre season next year.
Im done with the traditional PG. PG's today are elite defensively and/or elite scorers.... nobody cares about assist. Look at the best teams.

Sixers: Curry/Simmons. Curry plays/defends 1's and scores at an elite level while Simmons is the transition PG that can defend 4 positions.
Lakers: Schroder averages 5 assist/36, while Lebron is really the playmaker
Bucks: Jrue is 3rd in assist behind Giannis and Middleton. He plays defense and scores efficiently.
Jazz: Conley averages 7 ast/36, but Mitchell and Ingles do a ton of playmaking.

Having a mediocre defender/scorer that racks up assist gets you nowhere as they swallow up possessions. I'd rather play Beal with another combo guard that plays defense. Beal would be perfect with Suggs, Cade, Butler, Springer, etc. Guys that can defend 2+ positions, move the ball/playmaker, and score efficiently.

Jared Butler

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jared-butler-1/gamelog/2021/

He has tremendously improved in each of his three seasons at Baylor. Statistically speaking he is an absolute beast. Number one in the entire NCAA in box plus/minus. He is a great defender who is also extremely efficient on offense. What is really impressive is how he has incrementally improved in all categories in each of his seasons. Right now his outside shooting is almost unreal good.

It would be outstanding if the Wizards could draft Evan Mobley and Jared Butler!

I would move both Hachimura and Troy Brown Junior For the pick to get Butler (or, of course, Suggs...but that’s not happening!). Washington really does need a dogged defender on the perimeter. Bradley Beal would be perfect with that kind of player next to him.

[NatP4]

Didn’t watch the entire first half of the ignite game, but from what I saw, same stuff. Kuminga super active, filled up the stat sheet, 10-5-2-2-1. Made a couple 3s, gives great effort on D.

Green was a lot better, but still some really brutal decisions and awful defense. I’m not sure how he helps a team win unless he’s lighting it up with his scoring.

Nix was a non factor, didn’t really play much or have the ball a lot.

Kuminga is clearly the main character

[nate33]

Didn’t watch the entire first half of the ignite game, but from what I saw, same stuff. Kuminga super active, filled up the stat sheet, 10-5-2-2-1. Made a couple 3s, gives great effort on D.

Green was a lot better, but still some really brutal decisions and awful defense. I’m not sure how he helps a team win unless he’s lighting it up with his scoring.

Nix was a non factor, didn’t really play much or have the ball a lot.

Kuminga is clearly the main character

I've been watching too.

Kuminga's 3-point shot is okay if he has time and space to make it a set shot, but his off the dribble 3-ball is a little shaky. He shot one that bricked off the backboard. His hands aren't the greatest either, but I suppose there's a little nervousness. He dropped a post entry pass, and dribble another ball off his leg.

I don't want too sound negative. He had lots of good moments too. He can get by guys easily. He moves like a small forward but has the size of a power forward. He has shown a nice touch on his midrange game. He seems to care on defense, he puts a body on guys when a shot goes up, and he hustles back on defense in transition. He is unselfish and avoids playing hero ball, even though he is the best player on the floor. He has an excellent demeanor, never whining or complaining.

[Shoe]

Masai can draft the Congolese Kuminga with the #1 pick.

[prime1time]

Watch on YouTube

Not sure why there is so much Green knocking in this thread. This kid has elite explosiveness and athleticism. He's 19, put him in a good organization, teach him good basketball, force him to play defense and this kid will be unbelievable. For my money, he's more explosive and a better leaper than Wall. If Green adds muscle, to finish through contact, he will be a force. The road won't be easy, he needs to tighten up his handles and think through the game more, but the ceiling is very high. A bigger, more explosive, more athletic version of Beal. Beal's already basically an unstoppable scorer, but Green has a chance to be more efficient. When you're this explosive the game becomes even more simple. Jab step drives become lethal due to the quickness of the first step. One step pull up jumpers will be even harder to guard due to defenders jumping back on their heels, step back 3's will create even more separation. If he's really committed to playing Basketball, there is no reason why he can't go down as a top 10 to 15 scorer of all time. With just a little bit of strength and counter moves you have an elite scorer. The main takeaway from Green should be that physically he has all the skills you need to be an unstoppable scorer. A smooth jumper and elite explosiveness. The only question for him is how much is he willing to sacrifice to be great. Nowadays, people love to look down on elite athleticism and physical ability. I remember another skinny explosive 6'5 guard.

Watch on YouTube

You can knock Green, but it doesn't take much for elite athletes to become great players. He deserves to be in the conversation with all these top players. And in terms of potential, he is up there with anyone else in his draft.

[nate33]

Not sure why there is so much Green knocking in this thread. This kid has elite explosiveness and athleticism. He's 19, put him in a good organization, teach him good basketball, force him to play defense and this kid will be unbelievable. For my money, he's more explosive and a better leaper than Wall. If Green adds muscle, to finish through contact, he will be a force. The road won't be easy, he needs to tighten up his handles and think through the game more, but the ceiling is very high. A bigger, more explosive, more athletic version of Beal. Beal's already basically an unstoppable scorer, but Green has a chance to be more efficient. When you're this explosive the game becomes even more simple. Jab step drives become lethal due to the quickness of the first step. One step pull up jumpers will be even harder to guard due to defenders jumping back on their heels, step back 3's will create even more separation. If he's really committed to playing Basketball, there is no reason why he can't go down as a top 10 to 15 scorer of all time. With just a little bit of strength and counter moves you have an elite scorer. The main takeaway from Green should be that physically he has all the skills you need to be an unstoppable scorer. A smooth jumper and elite explosiveness. The only question for him is how much is he willing to sacrifice to be great. Nowadays, people love to look down on elite athleticism and physical ability. I remember another skinny explosive 6'5 guard.

You can knock Green, but it doesn't take much for elite athletes to become great players. He deserves to be in the conversation with all these top players. And in terms of potential, he is up there with anyone else in his draft.

I was going to compose a reply, but a great poster on the Draft Board had his own analysis that is quite similar to mine:

Green could be elite, but he's so unrefined. Of the big 5 prospects, he has the furthest to go. People are throwing out Beal comparisons. I see the comp but it is highly misleading. It took Beal years to even come close to the level of scoring that he's now capable of. It's tough to project players like Beal because what defines them most isn't whether are before the draft, but their year after year improvement. Compared to Beal, Green is more athletic and explosive. He has a quicker first step and he's also taller. But what defines Beal is his body control and shiftiness. Beal can get to the hole at will. In a league where elite scorers are defined by their ability to shoot high volume of 3's and get layups, Beal is a throwback scorer.

Scoring will come easier to Green because of his athletic ability. But this could be a double edge sword. I get serious Wiggins vibes from him. Is Green willing to put in the work necessary to fully utilize his offensive talents. In high school, he got by own only physical ability. Now he will need to add skill. You can talk about X's and O's with Green all you want, but it doesn't even matter. He has all the tools to be great. The question for him is does he really want to be great or is he fine just being an average to the above-average player. In that regard, I put him in the same category of an Anthony Edwards. I look forward to seeing more of him in this G-League tourney.

[payitforward]

Oh funny! Very funny!

[SUPERBALLMAN]

Just watched Gonzaga... Total blow out. Timme was the star of the game. Kind of hard to evaluate Suggs in a game like that, but he made some nice p!ays.

Watching USC now...every time I watch Mobley, my very first thought is he looks small. So thin and light, but more than that he just doesn't look big. I have a hard time believing he's 7 ft. He looks more like about 6-9. Maybe it's just my TV?

Btw he has dropped to 4 on the Draft Room mock...

https://nbadraftroom.com/p/2021-nba-mock-draft/

[nate33]

Mobley with 20 points, 11 boards, 6 blocks and 2 steals against Washington State.

[queridiculo]

Just watched Gonzaga... Total blow out. Timme was the star of the game. Kind of hard to evaluate Suggs in a game like that, but he made some nice p!ays.

Watching USC now...every time I watch Mobley, my very first thought is he looks small. So thin and light, but more than that he just doesn't look big. I have a hard time believing he's 7 ft. He looks more like about 6-9. Maybe it's just my TV?

Btw he has dropped to 4 on the Draft Room mock...

https://nbadraftroom.com/p/2021-nba-mock-draft/

I seem to be in the minority with concerns about his lack of size, strength.

Not quite as extreme of a case as Bol Bol, but I do see some similarities about his lack of physicality being dismissed.

His defensive rebounding is a problem and I could really see him struggle being effective on that end in the pros even more so until he gets a lot stronger.

With his skinny legs, narrow base and high center of gravity that could be a tall order.

[nate33]

Just watched Gonzaga... Total blow out. Timme was the star of the game. Kind of hard to evaluate Suggs in a game like that, but he made some nice p!ays.

Watching USC now...every time I watch Mobley, my very first thought is he looks small. So thin and light, but more than that he just doesn't look big. I have a hard time believing he's 7 ft. He looks more like about 6-9. Maybe it's just my TV?

Btw he has dropped to 4 on the Draft Room mock...

https://nbadraftroom.com/p/2021-nba-mock-draft/

I seem to be in the minority with concerns about his lack of size, strength.

Not quite as extreme of a case as Bol Bol, but I do see some similarities about his lack of physicality being dismissed.

His defensive rebounding is a problem and I could really see him struggle being effective on that end in the pros even more so until he gets a lot stronger.

With his skinny legs, narrow base and how center of gravity that could be a tall order.

He will never be Shaq, but I think he'll eventually have a frame roughly equivalent to Jarrett Allen or Clint Capela. NBA trainers know what they're doing. Guys always fill out. But yeah, that's a concern. If he had Wiseman's frame along with his current production, he'd be an Anthony Davis tier prospect - a no brainer top pick.

I agree that rebounding is his biggest weakness. Though it's not like he is a bad rebounder, he just isn't a dominant one. It's hard to parse out how much of that is due to him having really good rebounders alongside him.

It's possible that he'll have to play PF for his first couple of years, moving over to center in crunch time or against backups. Fortunately, we have an ideal stretch 5 to play alongside him.