Official Trade Thread -- Part XL

[nate33]

I am willing to bet the house that the main reason he wants to stay is that he doesn't want to abandon his friend, Westbrook, after convincing Westbrook that they could make Washington into a solid team together. If the Westbrook trade didn't happen, Beal would be gone by the trade deadline. I feel very confident in that.

Edit: Let me also add that Beal probably also convinced management as well about the great tandem he and Westbrook would make. I think he doesn't want to break all the promises he made and thus make himself look bad. He is trying to salvage all of it.

Interesting take.

That would imply that Beal engineered the Wall trade. I haven't seen much evidence that that is the case, and the fact that Beal and Wall still seem to get along would belie that argument.

Do we even know that Beal and Westbrook are tight friends or have any history together prior to the trade?

[Ruzious]

I am willing to bet the house that the main reason he wants to stay is that he doesn't want to abandon his friend, Westbrook, after convincing Westbrook that they could make Washington into a solid team together. If the Westbrook trade didn't happen, Beal would be gone by the trade deadline. I feel very confident in that.

Edit: Let me also add that Beal probably also convinced management as well about the great tandem he and Westbrook would make. I think he doesn't want to break all the promises he made and thus make himself look bad. He is trying to salvage all of it.

Interesting take.

That would imply that Beal engineered the Wall trade. I haven't seen much evidence that that is the case, and the fact that Beal and Wall still seem to get along would belie that argument.

Do we even know that Beal and Westbrook are tight friends or have any history together prior to the trade?

Yeah, that's a very imaginative take by that poster. I don't see any facts that come close to making it likely.

[queridiculo]

This organization doesn't deserve Beal. So far, Beal has shown a level of desire and commitment to this organization, the team, and his teammates, that is exemplary. In order to deserve this, the organization must do what is necessary to build around him.

Leonsis doesn't deserve Beal.

I am willing to bet the house that the main reason he wants to stay is that he doesn't want to abandon his friend, Westbrook, after convincing Westbrook that they could make Washington into a solid team together. If the Westbrook trade didn't happen, Beal would be gone by the trade deadline. I feel very confident in that.

Edit: Let me also add that Beal probably also convinced management as well about the great tandem he and Westbrook would make. I think he doesn't want to break all the promises he made and thus make himself look bad. He is trying to salvage all of it.

There's not a hint anywhere that Beal and Westbrook are friends and this narrative that Beal was the driving force behind this trade is tired and lacks substance.

[pcbothwel]

This organization doesn't deserve Beal. So far, Beal has shown a level of desire and commitment to this organization, the team, and his teammates, that is exemplary. In order to deserve this, the organization must do what is necessary to build around him.

I am willing to bet the house that the main reason he wants to stay is that he doesn't want to abandon his friend, Westbrook, after convincing Westbrook that they could make Washington into a solid team together. If the Westbrook trade didn't happen, Beal would be gone by the trade deadline. I feel very confident in that.

Edit: Let me also add that Beal probably also convinced management as well about the great tandem he and Westbrook would make. I think he doesn't want to break all the promises he made and thus make himself look bad. He is trying to salvage all of it.

There's not a hint anywhere that Beal and Westbrook are friends and this narrative that Beal was the driving force behind this trade is tired and lacks substance.

Agreed. I think Beal wants to stay because there is more benefit to him staying in DC. Plain and simple

Traded now:
- Very few teams that could/would trade for him and could be somewhere he doesnt want to be.
- He also uproots his entire family in the middle of the season and has to acclimate within days to a new team / city.

Not Traded this season:
- Ride this season to a 3rd team All NBA selection.
- Gets to see what the Wiz do this offseason (Masai? Top 3 pick?).
- More suitors and be able to work with Wiz management on best team/fit.
- If traded, he'll have time to get acclimated, move, etc.

[nate33]

From the Beal thread:

Read on Twitter

?s=21

Rest? Rest before trade? Hmmm

Great minds think I like...I had the same reaction when I saw the tweet this morning...

Odd that he is resting in a game which is not a back to back.

It is odd, but it also comes at a time when Beal stated pretty assertively that he wants to stay and make it work. I seriously doubt they would trade him at the moment, unless there's a godfather offer.

The latest rumor is that New York is interested in Beal. They have Barrett, their own picks, the Dallas 2021 (unprotected) and the Dallas 2023 pick (top 10 protected). Currently, that's the #8 and #12 pick in this draft. But if you run a lotto simulator, it's surprising how often the Knicks end up in the top 4. On the other hand, the Knicks with Beal and Thibs should get better over the 2nd half of the year, and Dallas will probably right the ship as well. Both picks could be out of the lottery.

I couldn't commit to this deal unless it's after the lottery and we know NY has a top 4 pick.

[DCZards]

I believe Beal doesn’t want to be traded because he genuinely wants to:
1. Be the key to turning the Zards into a contender.
2. Become maybe the most iconic and beloved figure in DC sports history
3. Be part of the Wizards ownership and/or management when he retires.

Those may be unrealistic goals (especially the first one) that BB may someday be forced to abandon, but he strikes me as the type of individual who would have those type of lofty goals.

[Ruzious]

From the Beal thread:

Read on Twitter

?s=21

Rest? Rest before trade? Hmmm

Great minds think I like...I had the same reaction when I saw the tweet this morning...

Odd that he is resting in a game which is not a back to back.

It is odd, but it also comes at a time when Beal stated pretty assertively that he wants to stay and make it work. I seriously doubt they would trade him at the moment, unless there's a godfather offer.

The latest rumor is that New York is interested in Beal. They have Barrett, their own picks, the Dallas 2021 (unprotected) and the Dallas 2023 pick (top 10 protected). Currently, that's the #8 and #12 pick in this draft. But if you run a lotto simulator, it's surprising how often the Knicks end up in the top 4. On the other hand, the Knicks with Beal and Thibs should get better over the 2nd half of the year, and Dallas will probably right the ship as well. Both picks could be out of the lottery.

I couldn't commit to this deal unless it's after the lottery and we know NY has a top 4 pick.

Yup, it would definitely have to be at least top 4. I don't have faith that Barrett will ever be a good team player.

[DCZards]

From the Beal thread:

Read on Twitter

?s=21

Rest? Rest before trade? Hmmm

Great minds think I like...I had the same reaction when I saw the tweet this morning...

Odd that he is resting in a game which is not a back to back.

It is odd, but it also comes at a time when Beal stated pretty assertively that he wants to stay and make it work. I seriously doubt they would trade him at the moment, unless there's a godfather offer.

The latest rumor is that New York is interested in Beal. They have Barrett, their own picks, the Dallas 2021 (unprotected) and the Dallas 2023 pick (top 10 protected). Currently, that's the #8 and #12 pick in this draft. But if you run a lotto simulator, it's surprising how often the Knicks end up in the top 4. On the other hand, the Knicks with Beal and Thibs should get better over the 2nd half of the year, and Dallas will probably right the ship as well. Both picks could be out of the lottery.

I couldn't commit to this deal unless it's after the lottery and we know NY has a top 4 pick.

I don't see Beal sitting out tonight's game as portending a trade. If there was any whiff of a chance that Beal was close to being traded NBA writers would be all over it given how much the focus has been on a Beal trade...and we'd be seeing stories and rumors right now about potential trade destinations.

[lastemp3ror]

I am willing to bet the house that the main reason he wants to stay is that he doesn't want to abandon his friend, Westbrook, after convincing Westbrook that they could make Washington into a solid team together. If the Westbrook trade didn't happen, Beal would be gone by the trade deadline. I feel very confident in that.

Edit: Let me also add that Beal probably also convinced management as well about the great tandem he and Westbrook would make. I think he doesn't want to break all the promises he made and thus make himself look bad. He is trying to salvage all of it.

Interesting take.

That would imply that Beal engineered the Wall trade. I haven't seen much evidence that that is the case, and the fact that Beal and Wall still seem to get along would belie that argument.

Do we even know that Beal and Westbrook are tight friends or have any history together prior to the trade?

I have seen articles about Westbrook and Beal being close. I have also seen people say Beal had a say in the trade. Of course, Beal would deny it even if it were true. Nobody is going to come out and say, "Yeah, I want to be the guy in Washington and I want Wall out". Of course, I don't know anything for certain though. Nobody would, outside of Wizards management and Beal.

[nate33]

I am willing to bet the house that the main reason he wants to stay is that he doesn't want to abandon his friend, Westbrook, after convincing Westbrook that they could make Washington into a solid team together. If the Westbrook trade didn't happen, Beal would be gone by the trade deadline. I feel very confident in that.

Edit: Let me also add that Beal probably also convinced management as well about the great tandem he and Westbrook would make. I think he doesn't want to break all the promises he made and thus make himself look bad. He is trying to salvage all of it.

Interesting take.

That would imply that Beal engineered the Wall trade. I haven't seen much evidence that that is the case, and the fact that Beal and Wall still seem to get along would belie that argument.

Do we even know that Beal and Westbrook are tight friends or have any history together prior to the trade?

I have seen articles about Westbrook and Beal being close. I have also seen people say Beal had a say in the trade. Of course, Beal would deny it even if it were true. Nobody is going to come out and say, "Yeah, I want to be the guy in Washington and I want Wall out". Of course, I don't know anything for certain though. Nobody would, outside of Wizards management and Beal.

I don't doubt that Beal had some say in the trade. A franchise player who is a free agent in 2 years is going to be consulted. But I think it went more like this:

"Hey Brad, we are looking into possibly trading Wall for Westbrook in a deal. There are on court and off court reasons why we think this will help the team." Any thoughts?

And Beal responded, "you guys do what you have to do to for us to win games. It's not my call."

[pcbothwel]

From the Beal thread:

Great minds think I like...I had the same reaction when I saw the tweet this morning...

Odd that he is resting in a game which is not a back to back.

It is odd, but it also comes at a time when Beal stated pretty assertively that he wants to stay and make it work. I seriously doubt they would trade him at the moment, unless there's a godfather offer.

The latest rumor is that New York is interested in Beal. They have Barrett, their own picks, the Dallas 2021 (unprotected) and the Dallas 2023 pick (top 10 protected). Currently, that's the #8 and #12 pick in this draft. But if you run a lotto simulator, it's surprising how often the Knicks end up in the top 4. On the other hand, the Knicks with Beal and Thibs should get better over the 2nd half of the year, and Dallas will probably right the ship as well. Both picks could be out of the lottery.

I couldn't commit to this deal unless it's after the lottery and we know NY has a top 4 pick.

Yup, it would definitely have to be at least top 4. I don't have faith that Barrett will ever be a good team player.

Never been a big RJ fan, but only because I thought he was overrated and not because I thought he would be terrible. He actually reminds me a bit of Derozan (Better awareness/less athletic).
And lets be clear. RJ is 20 y/o and shares the backcourt with the WORST (non rookie) starter in the league in Elfrid Payton. Barrett has played 900 minutes so far this year, and 780 of them next to Payton (87% !!!). And I dont exaggerate by saying the worst.
TS: 47%, BPM: -3.8, RPM: -3.6 (428/460). He is "WTF Russ" Bad. No 20 y/o Guard can play almost 90% of his minutes next to that and be good. Side note, on the other side of him is Reggie Bullock who does nothing but stand in the corner and shoot 3's, and still has a TS of 53%.

If NY would value Barrett as just a decent asset and the two picks where they likely end up (Mid/late teens, not mid lotto), then I may listen as they would probably add the Detroit 2nd + another 1st 2-3 years from now.

I would want Barrett + Filler (Rivers/Knox) + the picks. Send the filler to a 3rd team for a 2nd and create a 20M TPE. Keep tanking and get top 3 pick.
Not a yes, but an interesting package (but only if you think Barrett has upside)

[Frichuela]

From the Beal thread:



It is odd, but it also comes at a time when Beal stated pretty assertively that he wants to stay and make it work. I seriously doubt they would trade him at the moment, unless there's a godfather offer.

The latest rumor is that New York is interested in Beal. They have Barrett, their own picks, the Dallas 2021 (unprotected) and the Dallas 2023 pick (top 10 protected). Currently, that's the #8 and #12 pick in this draft. But if you run a lotto simulator, it's surprising how often the Knicks end up in the top 4. On the other hand, the Knicks with Beal and Thibs should get better over the 2nd half of the year, and Dallas will probably right the ship as well. Both picks could be out of the lottery.

I couldn't commit to this deal unless it's after the lottery and we know NY has a top 4 pick.

Yup, it would definitely have to be at least top 4. I don't have faith that Barrett will ever be a good team player.

Never been a big RJ fan, but only because I thought he was overrated and not because I thought he would be terrible. He actually reminds me a bit of Derozan (Better awareness/less athletic).
And lets be clear. RJ is 20 y/o and shares the backcourt with the WORST (non rookie) starter in the league in Elfrid Payton. Barrett has played 900 minutes so far this year, and 780 of them next to Payton (87% !!!). And I dont exaggerate by saying the worst.
TS: 47%, BPM: -3.8, RPM: -3.6 (428/460). He is "WTF Russ" Bad. No 20 y/o Guard can play almost 90% of his minutes next to that and be good. Side note, on the other side of him is Reggie Bullock who does nothing but stand in the corner and shoot 3's, and still has a TS of 53%.

If NY would value Barrett as just a decent asset and the two picks where they likely end up (Mid/late teens, not mid lotto), then I may listen as they would probably add the Detroit 2nd + another 1st 2-3 years from now.

I would want Barrett + Filler (Rivers/Knox) + the picks. Send the filler to a 3rd team for a 2nd and create a 20M TPE. Keep tanking and get top 3 pick.
Not a yes, but an interesting package (but only if you think Barrett has upside)

Not sure how I'd feel about Barrett. He's a bad fit with Westbrook, the two of them from beyond the arc would be a brick fest

In any case, this hypothetical should include the picks mentioned here plus Mitchell Robinson...

[Ruzious]

Tbh, I'm not sure how valuable Robinson is. He's shown zero skill improvement since joining the NBA as am unskilled center, and his shot-blocking has gone way down.

[pcbothwel]

Yup, it would definitely have to be at least top 4. I don't have faith that Barrett will ever be a good team player.

Never been a big RJ fan, but only because I thought he was overrated and not because I thought he would be terrible. He actually reminds me a bit of Derozan (Better awareness/less athletic).
And lets be clear. RJ is 20 y/o and shares the backcourt with the WORST (non rookie) starter in the league in Elfrid Payton. Barrett has played 900 minutes so far this year, and 780 of them next to Payton (87% !!!). And I dont exaggerate by saying the worst.
TS: 47%, BPM: -3.8, RPM: -3.6 (428/460). He is "WTF Russ" Bad. No 20 y/o Guard can play almost 90% of his minutes next to that and be good. Side note, on the other side of him is Reggie Bullock who does nothing but stand in the corner and shoot 3's, and still has a TS of 53%.

If NY would value Barrett as just a decent asset and the two picks where they likely end up (Mid/late teens, not mid lotto), then I may listen as they would probably add the Detroit 2nd + another 1st 2-3 years from now.

I would want Barrett + Filler (Rivers/Knox) + the picks. Send the filler to a 3rd team for a 2nd and create a 20M TPE. Keep tanking and get top 3 pick.
Not a yes, but an interesting package (but only if you think Barrett has upside)

Not sure how I'd feel about Barrett. He's a bad fit with Westbrook, the two of them from beyond the arc would be a brick fest

In any case, this hypothetical should include the picks mentioned here plus Mitchell Robinson...

1) I couldnt care less about fit with Russ. If we trade Beal we are rebuilding. We can stagger minutes and eventually move off Russ.

2) I like Mitchell, but you cant ask a team looking to compete to trade their 30 mpg defensive anchor with no back fill. Sure, we could get him for Beal, but then we lose other assets. If we get Mobley then Mitchell has much less value to us.

The best way to win in a trade is to have mutually beneficial aspirations. Team A wants to compete and Team B wants to rebuild. So team A will value their future less than their present and vice versa for Team B. Each team gets something from each other that they value more than the previous owner.

[doclinkin]

I think part of why Beal doesn't want a trade, aside from uprooting family etc is that he has a great relationship with Ted and Tommy. With a fair amount of power and say-so. I can imagine no other front office that would consult him on draft picks and organizational goals etc. They have made it clear that the house is his if he wants it. They would like to build around him as a centerpiece. That they haven't been able to do so may be damning, but it has to be gratifying to a player to have that level of influence over the organization's future.

[nate33]

I think part of why Beal doesn't want a trade, aside from uprooting family etc is that he has a great relationship with Ted and Tommy. With a fair amount of power and say-so. I can imagine no other front office that would consult him on draft picks and organizational goals etc. They have made it clear that the house is his if he wants it. They would like to build around him as a centerpiece. That they haven't been able to do so may be damning, but it has to be gratifying to a player to have that level of influence over the organization's future.

I question how much control Beal really has.

Beal is not a scout and he does not have the time or necessarily the ability to assess player value better than our professional scouting staff. I seriously doubt they went to Beal and said, "who should we pick, Avdija or Haliburton?"

I think Beal has input on the really big decisions, like should we trade Wall or not. And he probably okayed the general idea of reloading after Gortat got old and Wall got hurt, rather than trying to patch together a few stopgap vets so we could keep winning 40 games a season. But I doubt he is picking players or getting involved in minor trades like the Wagner/Bonga acquisition or the Howard/CJ Miles trade.

[payitforward]

I believe Beal doesn’t want to be traded because he genuinely wants to:
1. Be the key to turning the Zards into a contender.
2. Become maybe the most iconic and beloved figure in DC sports history
3. Be part of the Wizards ownership and/or management when he retires.

Those may be unrealistic goals (especially the first one) that BB may someday be forced to abandon, but he strikes me as the type of individual who would have those type of lofty goals.

That's really interesting, Zards....

In a way, the 1st one might be something slightly different but closely related -- that he doesn't want to be viewed as a guy who abandoned a sinking ship. If he also helped create a contender... so much the better.

As to the second reason -- well, obviously, no one is going to have negative feelings about John Wall because of his departure, which wasn't something he wanted. If Beal indicated that he did want to leave, that would really seem like a major contrast to Wall. Again, it wouldn't be a good look. Really, that's kind of the other side of the same coin as reason #1.

Your 3d reason is particularly interesting -- & I can definitely see it. Brad obviously thinks about these kinds of things: I remember his off the cuff remark, "It starts at the top."

I guess if a thoughtful guy like Beal watches Leonsis careen along in what seems a more or less haphazard way, there comes a time when he says to himself, "I could do a better job than that...."

[payitforward]

Tbh, I'm not sure how valuable Robinson is. He's shown zero skill improvement since joining the NBA as am unskilled center, and his shot-blocking has gone way down.

It's true -- & weird, given how young he was. You'd think he would gain skills -- at least to some degree. But, in fact, he's less involved in the offense than either of his first 2 seasons.

The only think you can point to as an area of improvement is that he doesn't foul as much as he used to.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I believe Beal doesn’t want to be traded because he genuinely wants to:
1. Be the key to turning the Zards into a contender.
2. Become maybe the most iconic and beloved figure in DC sports history
3. Be part of the Wizards ownership and/or management when he retires.

Those may be unrealistic goals (especially the first one) that BB may someday be forced to abandon, but he strikes me as the type of individual who would have those type of lofty goals.

That's really interesting, Zards....

In a way, the 1st one might be something slightly different but closely related -- that he doesn't want to be viewed as a guy who abandoned a sinking ship. If he also helped create a contender... so much the better.

As to the second reason -- well, obviously, no one is going to have negative feelings about John Wall because of his departure, which wasn't something he wanted. If Beal indicated that he did want to leave, that would really seem like a major contrast to Wall. Again, it wouldn't be a good look. Really, that's kind of the other side of the same coin as reason #1.

Your 3d reason is particularly interesting -- & I can definitely see it. Brad obviously thinks about these kinds of things: I remember his off the cuff remark, "It starts at the top."

I guess if a thoughtful guy like Beal watches Leonsis careen along in what seems a more or less haphazard way, there comes a time when he says to himself, "I could do a better job than that...."

I think Beal is happy here ( in DC as a Wizards player) because his wife is happy here.

That is all.

Life is good for him why **** it up?

[gambitx777]

Also as bad as dc, maryland and virginia are on taxes they ain't nothing like california and ny

I believe Beal doesn’t want to be traded because he genuinely wants to:
1. Be the key to turning the Zards into a contender.
2. Become maybe the most iconic and beloved figure in DC sports history
3. Be part of the Wizards ownership and/or management when he retires.

Those may be unrealistic goals (especially the first one) that BB may someday be forced to abandon, but he strikes me as the type of individual who would have those type of lofty goals.

That's really interesting, Zards....

In a way, the 1st one might be something slightly different but closely related -- that he doesn't want to be viewed as a guy who abandoned a sinking ship. If he also helped create a contender... so much the better.

As to the second reason -- well, obviously, no one is going to have negative feelings about John Wall because of his departure, which wasn't something he wanted. If Beal indicated that he did want to leave, that would really seem like a major contrast to Wall. Again, it wouldn't be a good look. Really, that's kind of the other side of the same coin as reason #1.

Your 3d reason is particularly interesting -- & I can definitely see it. Brad obviously thinks about these kinds of things: I remember his off the cuff remark, "It starts at the top."

I guess if a thoughtful guy like Beal watches Leonsis careen along in what seems a more or less haphazard way, there comes a time when he says to himself, "I could do a better job than that...."

I think Beal is happy here ( in DC as a Wizards player) because his wife is happy here.

That is all.

Life is good for him why **** it up?

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