Lakers vs Pistons, Game #24, 2/6, 7:00 PM PT

[tamaraw08]

After the first 3 games or so, I stated that it's foolish to compare him to Rondo bec they have very different strengths. Some "analysts" figured that bec they have the same built, that maybe he'll contribute the same way.
The same "analysts" kept bringing the fact that he shot 38.5% from 3 when he NEVER shot above 36% before that, also rolled my eyes when they mentioned Marc shot great last season too. Schroder is not a great passer and doesn't have great court vision but I just don't look at 3pt shooting and simple FG% but look at other stats which for me is a little more accurate.
His TS % is at 53.8% which was helped by his pretty good FT rate at 32.4% has helped him and this team even if he is currently horrendous at the 3pt line, just a point of comparison, Rondo's career TS% is 49%, But again, they have very different strengths.

So we finally agree? 53 / 49.. Whatever.. Neither are great man.

Neither are great but you can call 49% bad or below average while 53TS% is not that horrible esp if you consider Kemba currently has 45.8 TS% or Lonzo hit 51.7% last season. Caruso had 52.5 TS% last season but thank God didn't focus on that stat and look at other facets like defense. Your original point was Schroder doesn't make great decisions as a PG, and I AGREE, I also agree that Vogel and staff needs better sets too, but come one man, I pointed out that his turnovers are not that many per 100 possessions but you shifted to him not being a great passer/assist man... then shifted again to not being a good shooter pointing to FG% which could be misleading IMO.
It's been an interesting discussion and I applaud your classy demeanor of not resorting to name calling when we disagree.

[lazybatman]

Neither are great but you can call 49% bad or below average while 53TS% is not that horrible esp if you consider Kemba currently has 45.8 TS% or Lonzo hit 51.7% last season. Caruso had 52.5 TS% last season but thank God didn't focus on that stat and look at other facets like defense. Your original point was Schroder doesn't make great decisions as a PG, and I AGREE, I also agree that Vogel and staff needs better sets too, but come one man, I pointed out that his turnovers are not that many per 100 possessions but you shifted to him not being a great passer/assist man... then shifted again to not being a good shooter pointing to FG% which could be misleading IMO.
It's been an interesting discussion and I applaud your classy demeanor of not resorting to name calling when we disagree.

And I appreciate you too my friend. I'm sorry if you felt I shifted the conversation to get the win, but let me explain my thought process.

I'm trying to say that his turnover numbers are not relevant as he's not creating anything for others. He's meagrly a scorer. 95% of his passes are perimeter handoffs or throw the ball to a big who is posting up. Therefore, he has no business eating up so much time on the shot clock in possession. His TOVs are unlikely to be very high because he never tries to make easy plays for others by passing in between lanes. Same as Dwight's FG% always being one if the highest in the league despite him being a well below average offensive player.

He often drives up the court and around the defense for 14-20 seconds and passes the ball up to someone in an equally bad situation to take a bad shot. 3 of his 4 assists come organically out of those guys getting lucky/creative every once in a while. As you would agree, it's not a very efficient way of running a championship level offense.

He has gotta keep it simple. Score or pass the ball quicker on the shot clock. His usage is 21.4% with an assist% of 19.9% which is not quite as bad as Kuz, but downright terrible for a championship contender's 2nd leading ball handler. For context, the better decision makers would usually have a higher ast% than usg%.

Bron - 38.8% Ast on 31.1% Usg
Gasol - 12. 3% Ast on 10.2% Usg
Caruso - 14.8% Ast on 13.5% Usg

This year has obviously been an eyesore offensively, so here's what Bron and Rondo did last year - 2019-20
Bron - 49.1% Ast on 31.5% Usg
Rondo - 32.9% Ast on 18.2% Usg

And CP3, who is obviously the class of this generation, averages a ridiculous 45.4% Ast on 23.9% Usg for his career.

If he was scoring 22 ppg @ 50% & 38% 3FG, then he more than makes up for the wasted Usg, and it's not a concern, but he's kinda been struggling to find any efficiency on that end. His 15 ppg right now is more like 10-12 ppg if you account for the efficiency. Lakers opponents circling the date probably has something to do with it, but it's only gonna get worse in the playoffs, when teams have time to scout and plan counters for him.

He is an SG by trade, best suited for a scoring 6th man role against bench warmers. His lack of play making prowess is adversely affecting AD, Trez and the rest of the teams efficiency, which is why it's critical that something changes soon enough, unless we wanna get in more trouble than these 6-8 minute scoring vacuums against the worst teams in the league.

[tamaraw08]

Neither are great but you can call 49% bad or below average while 53TS% is not that horrible esp if you consider Kemba currently has 45.8 TS% or Lonzo hit 51.7% last season. Caruso had 52.5 TS% last season but thank God didn't focus on that stat and look at other facets like defense. Your original point was Schroder doesn't make great decisions as a PG, and I AGREE, I also agree that Vogel and staff needs better sets too, but come one man, I pointed out that his turnovers are not that many per 100 possessions but you shifted to him not being a great passer/assist man... then shifted again to not being a good shooter pointing to FG% which could be misleading IMO.
It's been an interesting discussion and I applaud your classy demeanor of not resorting to name calling when we disagree.

And I appreciate you too my friend. I'm sorry if you felt I shifted the conversation to get the win, but let me explain my thought process.

I'm trying to say that his turnover numbers are not relevant as he's not creating anything for others. He's meagrly a scorer. 95% of his passes are perimeter handoffs or throw the ball to a big who is posting up. Therefore, he has no business eating up so much time on the shot clock in possession. His TOVs are unlikely to be very high because he never tries to make easy plays for others by passing in between lanes. Same as Dwight's FG% always being one if the highest in the league despite him being a well below average offensive player.

He often drives up the court and around the defense for 14-20 seconds and passes the ball up to someone in an equally bad situation to take a bad shot. 3 of his 4 assists come organically out of those guys getting lucky/creative every once in a while. As you would agree, it's not a very efficient way of running a championship level offense.

He has gotta keep it simple. Score or pass the ball quicker on the shot clock. His usage is 21.4% with an assist% of 19.9% which is not quite as bad as Kuz, but downright terrible for a championship contender's 2nd leading ball handler. For context, the better decision makers would usually have a higher ast% than usg%.

Bron - 38.8% Ast on 31.1% Usg
Gasol - 12. 3% Ast on 10.2% Usg
Caruso - 14.8% Ast on 13.5% Usg

This year has obviously been an eyesore offensively, so here's what Bron and Rondo did last year - 2019-20
Bron - 49.1% Ast on 31.5% Usg
Rondo - 32.9% Ast on 18.2% Usg

And CP3, who is obviously the class of this generation, averages a ridiculous 45.4% Ast on 23.9% Usg for his career.

If he was scoring 22 ppg @ 50% & 38% 3FG, then he more than makes up for the wasted Usg, and it's not a concern, but he's kinda been struggling to find any efficiency on that end. His 15 ppg right now is more like 10-12 ppg if you account for the efficiency. Lakers opponents circling the date probably has something to do with it, but it's only gonna get worse in the playoffs, when teams have time to scout and plan counters for him.

He is an SG by trade, best suited for a scoring 6th man role against bench warmers. His lack of play making prowess is adversely affecting AD, Trez and the rest of the teams efficiency, which is why it's critical that something changes soon enough, unless we wanna get in more trouble than these 6-8 minute scoring vacuums against the worst teams in the league.

Bro, you are introducing ANOTHER stat that I don't like, aside from FG% and PER, which is USG%, which for me is misleading bec it has nothing to do with passing/assists.
Usg% - Usage Percentage (available since the 1977-78 season in the NBA); the formula is 100 * ((FGA + 0.44 * FTA + TOV) * (Tm MP / 5)) / (MP * (Tm FGA + 0.44 * Tm FTA + Tm TOV)). Usage percentage is an estimate of the percentage of team plays used by a player while he was on the floor.
We can argue all year long about this but the thing is, Most of us envisioned Lebron and AD to somewhat coast for the first 45 games or so and let Schroder and Harrell help and do some heavy lifting on offense but like a shark that smelled blood in the water, Lebron has saw a great opportunity to show everyone that he is the rightful MVP by playing every game, dominate the ball and hopefully have a better win/loss record than other contenders.
I would love to do more research to prove my point about how Lebron is dominating the ball more, hence a smaller role for his teammates.... also a few Rondo haters branded him as an Assist HUNTER., holds the ball more to collect more assists, not a bad type of player depends on how you see things, I used to love Marcelo Huertas when he was with the Lakers but Luke refused to play him more that it dawned on me, that he wants a more free willing/better ball movement= position-less basketball that he experienced in Golden State.....
But hey, I like Ben Simmons too but if he doesn't come, hopefully something will work out well.

[lazybatman]

Bro, you are introducing ANOTHER stat that I don't like, aside from FG% and PER, which is USG%, which for me is misleading bec it has nothing to do with passing/assists.
Usg% - Usage Percentage (available since the 1977-78 season in the NBA); the formula is 100 * ((FGA + 0.44 * FTA + TOV) * (Tm MP / 5)) / (MP * (Tm FGA + 0.44 * Tm FTA + Tm TOV)). Usage percentage is an estimate of the percentage of team plays used by a player while he was on the floor.
We can argue all year long about this but the thing is, Most of us envisioned Lebron and AD to somewhat coast for the first 45 games or so and let Schroder and Harrell help and do some heavy lifting on offense but like a shark that smelled blood in the water, Lebron has saw a great opportunity to show everyone that he is the rightful MVP by playing every game, dominate the ball and hopefully have a better win/loss record than other contenders.
I would love to do more research to prove my point about how Lebron is dominating the ball more, hence a smaller role for his teammates.... also a few Rondo haters branded him as an Assist HUNTER., holds the ball more to collect more assists, not a bad type of player depends on how you see things, I used to love Marcelo Huertas when he was with the Lakers but Luke refused to play him more that it dawned on me, that he wants a more free willing/better ball movement= position-less basketball that he experienced in Golden State.....
But hey, I like Ben Simmons too but if he doesn't come, hopefully something will work out well.

Okay, I'm gonna laugh at that Bron MVP rally soft hate man. It would be a lot stronger case if he was scoring 30 ppg, which he can do in his sleep if he chooses to take 2 more shots than his last 3 years' average - 19.53, and play 37 mpg. He's averaging 18.9 shots and about 32 mpg before these 3 OT games. All of his numbers are down since last year, not because he suddenly fell of a cliff, but he is indeed taking it easy. If he didn't have that 17 pt 4th qtr against the Cavs and his recent clutch 3s in the OT games, even his PPG tumbles down to about 23 and Lakers are 16-10, instead of 20-6 right now. Lebron taking a couple of nights off won't help, but expose Schroeder's limitations even further because he's a scoring SG with no vision and distribution ability, so he turns into a far less efficient Kyrie Irving, rather than a triple double machine like Russel Westbrook. I'm sure Schroeder's On court minutes without Lebron beside him would tell this story, but I'm done digging up stats that you don't like.

And, I did not envision them coasting for 45 games. 10-15 maybe. But, that would be in form of slacking on defense and the occasional effort plays. If you think the highest IQ player in the game should defer more PG responsibilities to a guy like that, then I just plain disagree. This is not the G League. He makes 15.5 mil.

Lebron's has been welcoming to accommodate and help him fit in with deffering possessions and compliments on social media and press conferences, as compared to say MJ or Kobe might be. Let's just call it at that, cos I don't think I can bring up anything new to this discussion anymore, given that you like and dislike certain stats. Agree to disagree.