NBA MVP Discussion 20/21 (Fresh poll ➥ Vote)

[Some smartguy]

How has the Harden trade taken KD out of the equation? Please elaborate how Harden nullifies KD but AD doesnt nullify LeBron. Cant see the consistency there. AD, LeBron both 1st Team all NBA. Harden, KD probably too. Exactly the same scenario.

AD will not be in the first team all-nba this year....And the Nets are only 15-12 right now vs 20-6 for the Lakers.LeBron is way ahead of KD right now for the MVP.

He said KD is out of contention because of Harden. That is what i was wondering about, not their record. If Harden keeps KD from running how doesnt AD? Be consistent in your criteria. If we exclude everyone who has a premium teammate, we will have to count Kawhi out too ebcause PG13 is actually good this season.

I'm fine with it. Stick with the guys who really carry mediocre teams. Jokic, Steph, Embiid.

The Nets had two high usage players in KD and Kyrie, and now they just added one of the highest usage players in NBA history. That's why. Someone like AD doesn't need the ball as much and doesn't take away from LeBron's stats much, if at all. A James Harden, or a Luka Doncic or a Russell Westbrook or really any player with high usage, especially a guard, impacts another teammate's case for MVP too heavily.

[yoyoboy]

I'd put it something like:

1. Embiid
2. Kawhi
3. LeBron
4. Jokic
5. Giannis
6. Curry
7. Gobert
8. Durant
9. Doncic
10. Lillard
HM: Davis, George, Conley, Middleton

Gobert? Conley? Unrealistic Jazz fan much? Middleton?

Cavs fan and LeBron fan actually. And yes, there are two sides of the court and box score stats don't tell the whole story... You seriously think the team with the best SRS (9.02) and best record in the league (20-5) deserves no representation in the MVP race? What's even the point of this award if you're just looking for guys who put up the sexiest stats? Gobert is anchoring the 3rd best defense in the league without standout defensive help around him, he's posting a +14.8 on-court and +14.7 on-off, and on offense he's shooting a high percentage at the rim while having lob gravity and averaging the 2nd most screen assists per game/most screen assists per 36 in the league. If that isn't value then what is?

Conley has a +19.2 on-off. Clearly he's doing something right out there that's contributing heavily to the Jazz's success this season. And Middleton is the 2nd best player on the team with the 2nd best SRS in the league - only .01 behind Utah actually. He's putting up 21 ppg on 64% TS, 6 apg, and 6 rpg while not turning it over much. How is it absurd to mention his name? Of course his raw ppg aren't anything crazy because he shares the court with the Freak, Holiday, and some role players who can score but again there's more to the game than volume scoring and Khris has shown to be more than capable of doing that when he needs to anyways (at least during the regular season).

[Some smartguy]

I'd put it something like:

1. Embiid
2. Kawhi
3. LeBron
4. Jokic
5. Giannis
6. Curry
7. Gobert
8. Durant
9. Doncic
10. Lillard
HM: Davis, George, Conley, Middleton

Gobert? Conley? Unrealistic Jazz fan much? Middleton?

Cavs fan and LeBron fan actually. And yes, there are two sides of the court and box score stats don't tell the whole story... You seriously think the team with the best SRS (9.02) and best record in the league (20-5) deserves no representation in the MVP race? What's even the point of this award if you're just looking for guys who put up the sexiest stats? Gobert is anchoring the 3rd best defense in the league without standout defensive help around him, he's posting a +14.8 on-court and +14.7 on-off, and on offense he's shooting a high percentage at the rim while having lob gravity and averaging the 2nd most screen assists per game/most screen assists per 36 in the league. If that isn't value then what is?

Conley has a +19.2 on-off. Clearly he's doing something right out there that's contributing heavily to the Jazz's success this season. And Middleton is the 2nd best player on the team with the 2nd best SRS in the league - only .01 behind Utah actually. He's putting up 21 ppg on 64% TS, 6 apg, and 6 rpg while not turning it over much. How is it absurd to mention his name? Of course his raw ppg aren't anything crazy because he shares the court with the Freak, Holiday, and some role players who can score but again there's more to the game than volume scoring and Khris has shown to be more than capable of doing that when he needs to anyways (at least during the regular season).

Yes, but uhh... Mike Conley? If you simply go off of SRS or on-off stats, then Justin Holiday and TJ McConnell are the two best players on a team like the Pacers. Gobert should always be a DPOY candidate, but to have him in the MVP race just goes to show a lack of basketball knowledge. Same with Middleton, he's a really good player, but 21/6/6 doesn't get you even close to the top-10. MVP voting values offence significantly more than defence. Saying that Conley should be an MVP HM simply because he has a +19.2 on-off is asinine. He won't be an all-star or even on a single snub list. Conley is averaging 16.5/3.7/5.8 with average shooting splits. He's at best a solid starter. I think I just lost brain cells.

[MisterHibachi]

I'd put it something like:

1. Embiid
2. Kawhi
3. LeBron
4. Jokic
5. Giannis
6. Curry
7. Gobert
8. Durant
9. Doncic
10. Lillard
HM: Davis, George, Conley, Middleton

There's really no argument for having LeBron below 2nd.

[trickshot]

Its fine i dont care much at this point, but the spinning and bending out of shape to create a narrative that allows a weak move here but not there is just hilarious.

I understand that AD seems to be less of a factor, however how did the lakers fare since he went out? To me it seems like they went from a clear cut back-to-back candidate to a team that consistently needs to go to overtime to beat bottom dwellers, or am i mistaken? Should go back and look at the record and opponents since AD went out

AD is a top 10 player in the league, ofcourse they look worse when he's out. Doesn't change the fact that LeBron is playing at MVP level.

You miss my point. I was replying to a comment that stated a guy had KD at #1 but since Harden joined him, he is basically out of the race - which is inconsistent with him listing LeBron (and Kawhi, for that matter). Thats all i'm saying. If we make it part of the criteria that the candidate has to play on a team without elite help then LeBron must be excluded. We saw in the playoffs what AD can do. He is a bigger piece than Harden if he returns to his form. And LOL at the guys who try to prop Kyrie up to relevance to hurt KD.

I think till a week ago Kyrie had played MVP level basketball (but didn't deserve the actual award for missing games) and Nets fans may confirm but one really doesn't need to prop him up to hurt KD. KD isn't winning MVP this season. Not even sure where his case for MVP came from. He has been missing games all season and his team record isn't there.

If record wasn't a factor it would still go to one of Curry or Jokic

[Noodlesoop]

I had KD as my pick before the season started but the harden trade has basically taken him out of the equation.
My top 5 would be Embiid, Lebron, Curry, Jokic, Kawhi

How has the Harden trade taken KD out of the equation? Please elaborate how Harden nullifies KD but AD doesnt nullify LeBron. Cant see the consistency there. AD, LeBron both 1st Team all NBA. Harden, KD probably too. Exactly the same scenario.

KD's missed too many games. Doesn't matter if he's playing with or without Harden.
On the other hand, It's been AD who's been missing games and LeBron's played in all the games.

Wether you think LeBron's a worthy MVP condidate or not, doesn't matter. What matters is that those who are gonna vote have LeBron as the favourite at the moment. I know as someone who hates LeBron, it's gonna hurt. but you have to deal with it.

The word hate is thrown around too frequently/easily.

I don’t understand why people use the word hate because there isn’t much further to go beyond hate, so you should really mean it when you say it. And I don’t get why you’d hate a basketball player unless he’s a genuinely evil individual. As much as I love basketball, it’s only a game.

Therefore do you genuinely hate Lebron and if so why?

[art_tatum]

My list right now:

1.Embiid
2.Lebron (helped by good record with AD currently out)
3.KL
4.Curry(same team record now with nuggets with less talent) had him below jokic until now.
5.Jokic
6.Dame ( tightly grouped together with joker and curry) keeping a cj less team at .500
7.Giannis almost impossible for media to pick him but he is still amazing.
8.Durant (will go up if he actually plays more lol)
9.Gobert

I don't watch the jazz enough to see who their best player is but they should have representation

[Swag]

If the Warriors enter the top 4, they gotta give it to Curry.

Lebron is playing with another top 5 player - Curry is playing with trash.


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Ad hasnt been close to a top 5 player this season hes had a slow start and is getting by on name recognition. Hes def better than any teammate Steph has still but he might not even deserve to make the allstar game this season TBH def not as a starter

True he hasn’t played like himself on the offensive side of the ball but when he’s on the floor, his defensive impact helps the team beyond stats.

We shouldn’t just ignore that AD is a great player and much better than anybody Curry has on their roster.


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[LesGrossman]

AD is a top 10 player in the league, ofcourse they look worse when he's out. Doesn't change the fact that LeBron is playing at MVP level.

You miss my point. I was replying to a comment that stated a guy had KD at #1 but since Harden joined him, he is basically out of the race - which is inconsistent with him listing LeBron (and Kawhi, for that matter). Thats all i'm saying. If we make it part of the criteria that the candidate has to play on a team without elite help then LeBron must be excluded. We saw in the playoffs what AD can do. He is a bigger piece than Harden if he returns to his form. And LOL at the guys who try to prop Kyrie up to relevance to hurt KD.

I think till a week ago Kyrie had played MVP level basketball (but didn't deserve the actual award for missing games) and Nets fans may confirm but one really doesn't need to prop him up to hurt KD. KD isn't winning MVP this season. Not even sure where his case for MVP came from. He has been missing games all season and his team record isn't there.

If record wasn't a factor it would still go to one of Curry or Jokic

I think KD is unspectacular but simply the best offensive player in the league AND he plays defense unlike several other guys on the list. He went out and the Nets started losing, Harden and Kyrie didnt make a difference. Its obvious KD makes them win

[trickshot]

You miss my point. I was replying to a comment that stated a guy had KD at #1 but since Harden joined him, he is basically out of the race - which is inconsistent with him listing LeBron (and Kawhi, for that matter). Thats all i'm saying. If we make it part of the criteria that the candidate has to play on a team without elite help then LeBron must be excluded. We saw in the playoffs what AD can do. He is a bigger piece than Harden if he returns to his form. And LOL at the guys who try to prop Kyrie up to relevance to hurt KD.

I think till a week ago Kyrie had played MVP level basketball (but didn't deserve the actual award for missing games) and Nets fans may confirm but one really doesn't need to prop him up to hurt KD. KD isn't winning MVP this season. Not even sure where his case for MVP came from. He has been missing games all season and his team record isn't there.

If record wasn't a factor it would still go to one of Curry or Jokic

I think KD is unspectacular but simply the best offensive player in the league AND he plays defense unlike several other guys on the list. He went out and the Nets started losing, Harden and Kyrie didnt make a difference. Its obvious KD makes them win

That's why I said till a week ago. Before then Kyrie had done decently in KD's absence. The last week was bad and Kyrie has been disappointing in their losses, detrimental even

[GSP]

Bron
Jokic
Embiid
Kawhi
Dame
Steph
Kd
Rudy
Luka
Giannis

Covid **** Kds run a bit but hes easily top 5 with a dropoff after them if he didnt have that situation

[GSP]

I'd put it something like:

1. Embiid
2. Kawhi
3. LeBron
4. Jokic
5. Giannis
6. Curry
7. Gobert
8. Durant
9. Doncic
10. Lillard
HM: Davis, George, Conley, Middleton

Gobert? Conley? Unrealistic Jazz fan much? Middleton?

Cavs fan and LeBron fan actually. And yes, there are two sides of the court and box score stats don't tell the whole story... You seriously think the team with the best SRS (9.02) and best record in the league (20-5) deserves no representation in the MVP race? What's even the point of this award if you're just looking for guys who put up the sexiest stats? Gobert is anchoring the 3rd best defense in the league without standout defensive help around him, he's posting a +14.8 on-court and +14.7 on-off, and on offense he's shooting a high percentage at the rim while having lob gravity and averaging the 2nd most screen assists per game/most screen assists per 36 in the league. If that isn't value then what is?

Conley has a +19.2 on-off. Clearly he's doing something right out there that's contributing heavily to the Jazz's success this season. And Middleton is the 2nd best player on the team with the 2nd best SRS in the league - only .01 behind Utah actually. He's putting up 21 ppg on 64% TS, 6 apg, and 6 rpg while not turning it over much. How is it absurd to mention his name? Of course his raw ppg aren't anything crazy because he shares the court with the Freak, Holiday, and some role players who can score but again there's more to the game than volume scoring and Khris has shown to be more than capable of doing that when he needs to anyways (at least during the regular season).

Rudy not having standout defensive help isnt true TBH

Conley, Ingles, Royce and Favors are all great defenders. Lets not forget the Jazz were 13th last season with the same roster minus Favors. Its not like Rudy made a gargantuan defensive jump from last season

Conley being perpetually injured last season and the lack of a backup big was a big part of that which Favors fits extremely well and is one of if not the best defensive bench big in the league and he even posted better defensive numbers than Rudy in alot of lineups when they played back in 2019

[levon]

kawhi has no argument over lebob. worse record, PG arguably playing better than him, whereas AD hasn't been himself all year

[GSP]

kawhi has no argument over lebob. worse record, PG arguably playing better than him, whereas AD hasn't been himself all year

Bron is def over him but Pg has no case to be playing better than Kawhi. Clips are 2-3 without Pg tho and Lakers are 4-1 without Ad

[Muha_i_samolet]

Lol curry stans )) A dude who does nothing at all but score is never in the top20 conversation, much less in the MVP discussion.

[Balls Deep]

Lol curry stans )) A dude who does nothing at all but score is never in the top20 conversation, much less in the MVP discussion.

Remember, being an 8th seed is hard and deserves MVP talk.

[WHITE_HOT_HEAT]

1. Embiid
2. LeBron
3. Gobert
4. Kawhi
5. Jokic
6. Giannis
7. Doncic
8. Mitchell
9. Dame
10. PG
11. Curry
12. Simmons
13. Middleton
14. KD
15. Jaylen

[Freighttrain]

1. LeBron
2. Embiid

GAP

3. Gobert
4. Jokic
4. Kawhi
5. Luka
6. Steph
7. KD

[Dutchball97]

Embiid leading his team to the best record in the east without any other superstars, while imo playing like the second best player in the league behind only Jokic should be enough to give him the MVP award if the season ended today. LeBron is #2 and Kawhi #3 for me at the moment.

That said, WS and VORP have historically been strong indicators of MVP voting and Jokic is dominating both stats. Jokic has 5.5 WS and 2.9 VORP at the moment, while the next closest marks in both categories are 4.2 WS (Kawhi) and 2.2 VORP (LeBron/Luka). The Nuggets might be the 7th seed in the west right now but they have the 4th best SRS in the west behind only the Jazz, Lakers and Clippers. That's also a better SRS than all but one team from the east (Bucks). They'd be the 3rd seed in the east right now. Everything points to the Nuggets trending upwards and with a top 4 seed I don't think you can not vote for the player who has simply been lapping the competition.

[Mujahydeen]

Right now Curry is in a league of his own in terms of scoring and in top tier in terms of generating offense for his team (along with LeBron and Jokic).

League is very flat in the upper half and a small winning streak can move Warriors up into having top 6-7 record. If they can do that, the media narrative will start going Curry's way.