Lets talk Zach Lavine

[DroseReturnChi]

I have seen a lot of anti-zach stuff regarding the net rating.

The Bulls are trying to develop their youth. They have a starting lineup of Coby / Lavine / PW / Lauri / Wendell or some facsimile to cover for injuries. Several of these players are not good.

The Bulls have a set rotation where Zach basically holds together the starters and then the vets like Thad and Garrett Temple come in and actually improve things. This makes Zach's on/off numbers look bad, however when you look at the 5 man lineup combinations, when Zach gets to play with those vets, the results are great.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/2021/lineups/

All of the best 5 man lineups for Chicago have Zach in them, there just isn't many minutes there and not enough to make up for all of the minutes where Zach is carrying the youngsters for development minutes.

Here are the best 3 units for Chicago:
Lavine Porter Temple Valentine Young +42.8
Lavine Temple White Williams Young +42.0
Lavine Sato Val Williams Young +31.8

There is a clear pattern to that. Zach and Thad are in all 3. Temple, Val and PW are in two which surprises just about no one who has actually watched the team. Nowhere on the list is Lauri or Wendell.

Zach doesn't have the worst net rating on the Bulls. Wendell, Lauri and Coby are all worse than Zach. Zach just has the misfortune of playing with them for a lot of minutes.

This is just ridiculous excuse for lavine. by this logic, you should never blame anyone on a lotto team.
Booker had this similar trial and he proved me wrong. Until someone proves, you have the responsibility not the one accusing.
I bet you cannot explain why Beal, AD had huge ratings when they carried their terrible team.

[The Force.]

Posted this in the trade thread and got roasted for it. But I actually think this would be a decent return for Zach.

LaVine
Thad
/
Dillon Brooks
Brandon Clarke
Dieng (ideally Valanciunas if you could swing it)
2021 FRP (unprotected)
2023 FRP (unprotected)

It seems like people are expecting both a lottery pick AND high upside young players but which team can realistically provide that? The Warriors could give us Wiseman and the Minnesota pick. I think this would probably be the best case scenario even though Wiseman hasn't looked all that great. After that, unless a team like Orlando or Detroit is willing to package multiple unprotected picks and mortgage their future for LaVine I don't see a realistic trade partner.

At this point I think it's best to just give him the max and trade him in a year or two when there's more of a market.

[HomoSapien]

Are we allowed to negotiate an extension for Zach right now?

[WindyCityBorn]

Are we allowed to negotiate an extension for Zach right now?

We should try to if we can. I have no idea.

[WindyCityBorn]

Posted this in the trade thread and got roasted for it. But I actually think this would be a decent return for Zach.

LaVine
Thad
/
Dillon Brooks
Brandon Clarke
Dieng (ideally Valanciunas if you could swing it)
2021 FRP (unprotected)
2023 FRP (unprotected)

It seems like people are expecting both a lottery pick AND high upside young players but which team can realistically provide that? The Warriors could give us Wiseman and the Minnesota pick. I think this would probably be the best case scenario even though Wiseman hasn't looked all that great. After that, unless a team like Orlando or Detroit is willing to package multiple unprotected picks and mortgage their future for LaVine I don't see a realistic trade partner.

At this point I think it's best to just give him the max and trade him in a year or two when there's more of a market.

Or give him an extension and start winning in year or two. Why can’t we be the ones trading for good players instead playing suck and draft for the next 3 or 4 years? I don’t think AK wants to operate that way. I hope not.

[MissileMike]

Zach has improved every year he has been in the league. He's only 25, has a good attitude, works hard, and is one of the most athletically gifted players in the NBA. You wouldn't get equal value back, and good luck acquiring a player of his level. You keep (and pay) him, it's a no-brainer.

[FriedRise]

Are we allowed to negotiate an extension for Zach right now?

I believe we can (up to 5/125M), but I think the sentiment is there’s no incentive for Zach to do that since he’s gonna be UFA in 1.5 years and can command much more in the open market.

As for the Bulls, if we really want him here long term and prevent him from hitting UFA, we can renegotiate his contract ahead of time (like this offseason) and extend him the max in the vicinity of 5/190M.

[gobullschi]

Are we allowed to negotiate an extension for Zach right now?

I believe we can (up to 5/125M), but I think the sentiment is there’s no incentive for Zach to do that since he’s gonna be UFA in 1.5 years and can command much more in the open market.

As for the Bulls, if we really want him here long term and prevent him from hitting UFA, we can renegotiate his contract ahead of time (like this offseason) and extend him the max in the vicinity of 5/190M.

Maybe. Usually when a player suffers a devastating injury (torn ACL) they don’t like to make those type of gambles.

Zach strikes me as a player who cares more about winning. He wants to be recognized as one of the best and if the Bulls don’t make the playoffs this year, I could see him not willing to sign an extension.

[Kurt Heimlich]

Are we allowed to negotiate an extension for Zach right now?

I believe we can (up to 5/125M), but I think the sentiment is there’s no incentive for Zach to do that since he’s gonna be UFA in 1.5 years and can command much more in the open market.

As for the Bulls, if we really want him here long term and prevent him from hitting UFA, we can renegotiate his contract ahead of time (like this offseason) and extend him the max in the vicinity of 5/190M.

Yeah it's pretty easy to see why Zach would "bet on himself" if it's 5/125 vs 5/190. Especially the trajectory he's improving at the last two seasons. It's a shame there's such a wide gap in max's year to year if that's true. It cripples the Bulls ability to offer the security of a deal at a reasonably discounted rate. Something like 5 for 165ish might be a middle ground that could be found.

That said my gut feeling is Zach wants to be showcased on a winning franchise as well as get paid. Which is kind of a no duh statement. But this team's inability to find a consistent high level running mate to play and be relevant with is going to be an additional hurdle for negotiations.

[StunnerKO]

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[WindyCityBorn]

Are we allowed to negotiate an extension for Zach right now?

I believe we can (up to 5/125M), but I think the sentiment is there’s no incentive for Zach to do that since he’s gonna be UFA in 1.5 years and can command much more in the open market.

As for the Bulls, if we really want him here long term and prevent him from hitting UFA, we can renegotiate his contract ahead of time (like this offseason) and extend him the max in the vicinity of 5/190M.

Yeah it's pretty easy to see why Zach would "bet on himself" if it's 5/125 vs 5/190. Especially the trajectory he's improving at the last two seasons. It's a shame there's such a wide gap in max's year to year if that's true. It cripples the Bulls ability to offer the security of a deal at a reasonably discounted rate. Something like 5 for 165ish might be a middle ground that could be found.

That said my gut feeling is Zach wants to be showcased on a winning franchise as well as get paid. Which is kind of a no duh statement. But this team's inability to find a consistent high level running mate to play and be relevant with is going to be an additional hurdle for negotiations.

I think AK is going to fix some the gaps in the roster quick. If they wanted waste to this doing things like evaluating Coby White guard they have a plan to turn us into a winning team next season. I don’t if involves bringing in an old guy like Phoenix did with Chris Paul. It should be all about winning next year so they better nail the draft pick and hopefully we get lucky in the lottery.

[NecessaryEvil]

Votes count TWICE tonight

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[kodo]

Zach's old contract for $19M was highway robbery, I don't see Lavine extending it for 3 more years which is all we can do. We're limited to 120% salary per year of that contract and 8% increases. Even when he signed it, Lavine said he wasn't happy with it but recognized he needs to prove himself first.

Beal makes up to $37M per year on his current contract and has consistently won less games than Lavine.

There's going to be a number of teams telling Lavine's agent not to extend with Chicago, they'll offer up more than the $25M per year we can extend him if he waits to become an Unrestricted Free Agent. They can also offer better teams, which means a probable All-Star spot for him, something that's obviously been eating at him. Bobby Marks has already called him one of the most sought after free agents for the upcoming years.

[MisterRoy]

Aren't we the only team that can offer him 5 years at max money?


Sent from somewhere you've never been.

[gobullschi]

Zach's old contract for $19M was highway robbery, I don't see Lavine extending it for 3 more years which is all we can do. We're limited to 120% salary per year of that contract and 8% increases. Even when he signed it, Lavine said he wasn't happy with it but recognized he needs to prove himself first.

Beal makes up to $37M per year on his current contract and has consistently won less games than Lavine.

There's going to be a number of teams telling Lavine's agent not to extend with Chicago, they'll offer up more than the $25M per year we can extend him if he waits to become an Unrestricted Free Agent. They can also offer better teams, which means a probable All-Star spot for him, something that's obviously been eating at him. Bobby Marks has already called him one of the most sought after free agents for the upcoming years.

There is still the chance for injury.

[The Box Office]

Zach's old contract for $19M was highway robbery, I don't see Lavine extending it for 3 more years which is all we can do. We're limited to 120% salary per year of that contract and 8% increases. Even when he signed it, Lavine said he wasn't happy with it but recognized he needs to prove himself first.

Beal makes up to $37M per year on his current contract and has consistently won less games than Lavine.

There's going to be a number of teams telling Lavine's agent not to extend with Chicago, they'll offer up more than the $25M per year we can extend him if he waits to become an Unrestricted Free Agent. They can also offer better teams, which means a probable All-Star spot for him, something that's obviously been eating at him. Bobby Marks has already called him one of the most sought after free agents for the upcoming years.

There is still the chance for injury.

That's another major reason why I would be 100% trading LaVine this Summer. Can't wait any longer after that. And it's 50/50 that his stats might go down next season. There is no guarantee that his averages will go up. Zach does not draw a lot of fouls to get to the free throw a lot consistently to maintain his efficiency.

[PaKii94]

This thread to me now is a no brainer and I used to be Zach's biggest critic. I am fully on board with maxing zach.

In years past, he hadn't shown he got "it" when it came to game sense. I always said if Zach could improve the mental aspect of his game he would be in MVP contention putting up big numbers on elite efficiency. But I was thinking this wasn't going to happen immediately (probably never)....well it's finally happening!!!

I will give zach massive props to continue to work hard and improve on the deficiencies in his game. You can definitely see the growth with the work he's put in.

The reason I am fully down to max zach now is twofold:

1) work ethic. He's shown that he will continue working hard to improve. Even if he does only improve incrementally now, that's all we need from him. I think we'll see a more refined zach with more game experience leading a team

2) he's coming into his prime. We slogged through so many years hoping that zach would develop into what he is now. He is finally here.... And now people want to ship him off?? We need to reap the rewards now that we put in the time. Zach definitely looks past his ACL tear so I'm excited we have the rights to such a great scorer right when he's getting in his prime. This is not an aging star who's going to be an albatross on a bloated contract later.

[WindyCityBorn]

Aren't we the only team that can offer him 5 years at max money?


Sent from somewhere you've never been.

Yes.

[WindyCityBorn]

Zach's old contract for $19M was highway robbery, I don't see Lavine extending it for 3 more years which is all we can do. We're limited to 120% salary per year of that contract and 8% increases. Even when he signed it, Lavine said he wasn't happy with it but recognized he needs to prove himself first.

Beal makes up to $37M per year on his current contract and has consistently won less games than Lavine.

There's going to be a number of teams telling Lavine's agent not to extend with Chicago, they'll offer up more than the $25M per year we can extend him if he waits to become an Unrestricted Free Agent. They can also offer better teams, which means a probable All-Star spot for him, something that's obviously been eating at him. Bobby Marks has already called him one of the most sought after free agents for the upcoming years.

There is still the chance for injury.

That's another major reason why I would be 100% trading LaVine this Summer. Can't wait any longer after that. And it's 50/50 that his stats might go down next season. There is no guarantee that his averages will go up. Zach does not draw a lot of fouls to get to the free throw a lot consistently to maintain his efficiency.

You want Zach traded no matter what. You don’t need to add additional flimsy reasons.

[WindyCityBorn]

There hasn’t been new vote to trade Zach in a while. Pretty sure this poll would be more titled towards keeping him if members cared to or knew they could switch their votes.