Official Trade Thread -- Part XL

[gambitx777]

I would honestly say he's earned a job or stick after basket ball already with how loyal he's been.

I believe Beal doesn’t want to be traded because he genuinely wants to:
1. Be the key to turning the Zards into a contender.
2. Become maybe the most iconic and beloved figure in DC sports history
3. Be part of the Wizards ownership and/or management when he retires.

Those may be unrealistic goals (especially the first one) that BB may someday be forced to abandon, but he strikes me as the type of individual who would have those type of lofty goals.

That's really interesting, Zards....

In a way, the 1st one might be something slightly different but closely related -- that he doesn't want to be viewed as a guy who abandoned a sinking ship. If he also helped create a contender... so much the better.

As to the second reason -- well, obviously, no one is going to have negative feelings about John Wall because of his departure, which wasn't something he wanted. If Beal indicated that he did want to leave, that would really seem like a major contrast to Wall. Again, it wouldn't be a good look. Really, that's kind of the other side of the same coin as reason #1.

Your 3d reason is particularly interesting -- & I can definitely see it. Brad obviously thinks about these kinds of things: I remember his off the cuff remark, "It starts at the top."

I guess if a thoughtful guy like Beal watches Leonsis careen along in what seems a more or less haphazard way, there comes a time when he says to himself, "I could do a better job than that...."

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

[SA37]

Spoiler:

I believe Beal doesn’t want to be traded because he genuinely wants to:
1. Be the key to turning the Zards into a contender.
2. Become maybe the most iconic and beloved figure in DC sports history
3. Be part of the Wizards ownership and/or management when he retires.

Those may be unrealistic goals (especially the first one) that BB may someday be forced to abandon, but he strikes me as the type of individual who would have those type of lofty goals.

That's really interesting, Zards....

In a way, the 1st one might be something slightly different but closely related -- that he doesn't want to be viewed as a guy who abandoned a sinking ship. If he also helped create a contender... so much the better.

As to the second reason -- well, obviously, no one is going to have negative feelings about John Wall because of his departure, which wasn't something he wanted. If Beal indicated that he did want to leave, that would really seem like a major contrast to Wall. Again, it wouldn't be a good look. Really, that's kind of the other side of the same coin as reason #1.

Your 3d reason is particularly interesting -- & I can definitely see it. Brad obviously thinks about these kinds of things: I remember his off the cuff remark, "It starts at the top."

I guess if a thoughtful guy like Beal watches Leonsis careen along in what seems a more or less haphazard way, there comes a time when he says to himself, "I could do a better job than that...."

I think Beal is happy here ( in DC as a Wizards player) because his wife is happy here.

That is all.

Life is good for him why **** it up?

I remember seeing a post-game interview with Beal at some point last season and he basically said that when he was done playing no one was going to remember someone getting 50 in a game or something to that effect.

It just really gave me the impression that Beal had a very level-headed view about playing basketball and that he valued other things beyond just playing for a championship. I am sure he'd love to be on a playoff team competing for a championship, but his answer just made me think he wasn't obsessed with winning or anything like that. He just makes a lot of money playing basketball and there are other things to consider as far as his career is concerned. Him not requesting a trade or showing any frustration publicly seems to support that.

My guess is you are right: he likes living in DC and has a life there and would rather be in a place he is comfortable and making crazy money instead of going to a random team now and potentially moving again in free agency.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Exactly. He doesn’t need to budge. Let others spin about his legacy and wasting his years.

Archie Manning never won in New Otleans. How’s he doing as a husband and father? His boys came out okay. Didn’t they?

It’s absurd to think a young, black, multimillionaire who's the league leading scorer and growing his career should feel miserable. He might be frustrated at the Wizards win/loss record but that dude is super grounded.

Beal shouldn’t look at the other grass as greener if his family is tight and good just where they are IMHO.

[SA37]

Exactly. He doesn’t need to budge. Let others spin about his legacy and wasting his years.

Archie Manning never won in New Otleans. How’s he doing as a husband and father? His boys came out okay. Didn’t they?

It’s absurd to think a young, black, multimillionaire has is the leading scorer and growing his career should feel miserable. He might be frustrated at the Wizards win/loss record but that dude is super grounded.

Beal shouldn’t look at the other grass as greener if his family is tight and good just where they are IMHO.

I completely agree.

This obsession with "legacy," "building a brand," and the rest of the egocentric package that seems to come with playing in the NBA is just foolishness to me. There is nothing wrong with trying to make as much money as possible while you can or making some sacrifices to try to be as successful as possible in your profession, but there needs to be a balance. Unfortunately, not every player is surrounded by or listening to people with their best interests in mind.

It'd actually be great to see Beal commit to staying in Washington beyond his current contract.

[nate33]

Exactly. He doesn’t need to budge. Let others spin about his legacy and wasting his years.

Archie Manning never won in New Otleans. How’s he doing as a husband and father? His boys came out okay. Didn’t they?

It’s absurd to think a young, black, multimillionaire has is the leading scorer and growing his career should feel miserable. He might be frustrated at the Wizards win/loss record but that dude is super grounded.

Beal shouldn’t look at the other grass as greener if his family is tight and good just where they are IMHO.

I completely agree.

This obsession with "legacy," "building a brand," and the rest of the egocentric package that seems to come with playing in the NBA is just foolishness to me. There is nothing wrong with trying to make as much money as possible while you can or making some sacrifices to try to be as successful as possible in your profession, but there needs to be a balance. Unfortunately, not every player is surrounded by or listening to people with their best interests in mind.

It'd actually be great to see Beal commit to staying in Washington beyond his current contract.

I don't really like the characterization that he is "trying to make as much money as he possibly can". Beal would make just as much money if he demanded a trade to a contender.

His motivation for staying in DC is that he would prefer to be the face of a franchise and be a part of one city and one community for his entire career. He thinks that Damian Lillard is probably happier than Kevin Durant. Legacies can be measures by metrics other than number of rings.

[nate33]

Regarding trading Beal, one of the biggest obstacles is that we want a high pick (or picks) in return but teams that want Beal are in win-now mode and don't have high picks. This is why the Golden State deal seems like the only interesting trade at the moment.

A think a very viable way around this is to incorporate Philly. If the Sixers flame out again in the playoffs because of a lack of a go-to perimeter scorer, I think they would be very interested in swapping Simmons for Beal. Simmons, being younger than Beal and under contract longer, is a much more enticing trade asset for rebuilding teams that actually have lottery picks to trade. Simmons to Minnesota for their top 3 pick would work. Or Simmons to Atlanta. Or Simmons to OKC. Or even Detroit.

It's not really worth it to try and explore specific deals right now because we don't know who will have a high pick and it's doubtful that Philly will trade Simmons without first flaming out in the playoffs again. But if that scenario arises, I think the 3-way construct is a very plausible scenario.

Another interesting side benefit is that Philadelphia is the closest city to Washington. Beal wouldn't necessarily have to uproot his family and his life. He could maintain a presence in both cities. (Better yet, Beal could return to DC as a free agent in 2022 or 2023 after his contract is up.)

Wouldn't that be awesome! We make a 3-way trade: Beal to Philly, Simmons to Team X, top 3 pick to DC. Beal agrees to opt in on his player option as a condition of the deal. Beal plays for 2 more years in Philly, maybe winning a title. We spend 2 years developing our young lotto picks. In 2023, Westbrook is off the books and we resign Beal to come home just as our young players are ready for prime time!

[payitforward]

Who knows how practical that would be, but I tell you what -- it's nice to read a positive vision, given what a mess this is turning out to be.

Independent of trading Beal, it is hard to perceive a real strategy of any kind in what the Wizards have done. Tommy came in & used the '19 off season to continue filling the roster with young players while the team repeatedly said "we're building around Wall & Beal."

Ok... it was possible to imagine that: i.e. those 2 guys would be the oldest players on the team, the leaders. As the core of young guys (Brown, Bryant, Bonga, Rui, Mathews, Wagner) developed, it'd be maybe 3 years until we were genuinely good -- Wall & Beal wouldn't be over the hill (certainly not Beal). You could think of it as a plan -- even if it might be hard to pull off successfully.

Then Tommy did a 180 this off-season. Yes, we added Deni; we used our high R1 pick. But otherwise we seemed to completely abandon that so-called plan! We signed a guy at the end of his career (Lopez) & a couple of marginal veterans -- guys who contribute to no kind of plan for the future. Then we traded Wall for a guy 2 years older than he is, & who is very clearly on a downward trend, virtually guaranteeing he had no role in building future success.

In short, it seems evident that there is no kind of plan whatever -- none that I can see, anyway.

We keep saying that if we trade Beal it should for assets that are forward-focused. But, who knows...? They might trade him for a couple of veterans who are older than he is. No plan.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

Regarding trading Beal, one of the biggest obstacles is that we want a high pick (or picks) in return but teams that want Beal are in win-now mode and don't have high picks. This is why the Golden State deal seems like the only interesting trade at the moment.

A think a very viable way around this is to incorporate Philly. If the Sixers flame out again in the playoffs because of a lack of a go-to perimeter scorer, I think they would be very interested in swapping Simmons for Beal. Simmons, being younger than Beal and under contract longer, is a much more enticing trade asset for rebuilding teams that actually have lottery picks to trade. Simmons to Minnesota for their top 3 pick would work. Or Simmons to Atlanta. Or Simmons to OKC. Or even Detroit.

It's not really worth it to try and explore specific deals right now because we don't know who will have a high pick and it's doubtful that Philly will trade Simmons without first flaming out in the playoffs again. But if that scenario arises, I think the 3-way construct is a very plausible scenario.

Another interesting side benefit is that Philadelphia is the closest city to Washington. Beal wouldn't necessarily have to uproot his family and his life. He could maintain a presence in both cities. (Better yet, Beal could return to DC as a free agent in 2022 or 2023 after his contract is up.)

Wouldn't that be awesome! We make a 3-way trade: Beal to Philly, Simmons to Team X, top 3 pick to DC. Beal agrees to opt in on his player option as a condition of the deal. Beal plays for 2 more years in Philly, maybe winning a title. We spend 2 years developing our young lotto picks. In 2023, Westbrook is off the books and we resign Beal to come home just as our young players are ready for prime time!

IMO a deal with NY that brings back Barrett & both of their 1st round picks this year is worth considering.

[TGW]

RJ Barrett is not good. He'll be no better than Wiggins IMO. Same build, similar type of game. We're now in year two of his career, and he has shown no growth in his game. He's still just a gunner. Quigley has more talent than him.

[SA37]

Exactly. He doesn’t need to budge. Let others spin about his legacy and wasting his years.

Archie Manning never won in New Otleans. How’s he doing as a husband and father? His boys came out okay. Didn’t they?

It’s absurd to think a young, black, multimillionaire has is the leading scorer and growing his career should feel miserable. He might be frustrated at the Wizards win/loss record but that dude is super grounded.

Beal shouldn’t look at the other grass as greener if his family is tight and good just where they are IMHO.

I completely agree.

This obsession with "legacy," "building a brand," and the rest of the egocentric package that seems to come with playing in the NBA is just foolishness to me. There is nothing wrong with trying to make as much money as possible while you can or making some sacrifices to try to be as successful as possible in your profession, but there needs to be a balance. Unfortunately, not every player is surrounded by or listening to people with their best interests in mind.

It'd actually be great to see Beal commit to staying in Washington beyond his current contract.

I don't really like the characterization that he is "trying to make as much money as he possibly can". Beal would make just as much money if he demanded a trade to a contender.

His motivation for staying in DC is that he would prefer to be the face of a franchise and be a part of one city and one community for his entire career. He thinks that Damian Lillard is probably happier than Kevin Durant. Legacies can be measures by metrics other than number of rings.

I was just speaking in general about players who might switch teams because of money. In general, star players can force their way to almost any place they want to play in without giving up money, although some do. Role players are always the most susceptible to giving up location/situation for money, but it happens to stars, too. For example, Steve Nash left Dallas because of money even though I am sure he would have much preferred staying in Dallas:

Nash made two All-Star games in six seasons in Dallas and developed a tight bond with Dirk Nowitzki, on and off the court.

The NBA icon was looking to re-up with the Mavs back then, but Cuban didn’t want to commit long-term to Nash–thinking his best days were behind him. Dallas offered Nash a four-year deal at about $9 million annually, which was outmatched by the Suns’ offer of six-years, $63 million.

https://clutchpoints.com/mavs-news-steve-nash-hated-mark-cuban-for-long-time-after-2004-free-agency-snub/


Other times, guys take less to stay; Udonis Haslem got offered more money by other teams back in 2010, but took less to stay with Miami -- and for a guy like him, that was money he'd never get back (iirc, he got offered around $35M by the Grizzlies and accepted $20M from Miami). Haslem has made up that difference over the last 6 years (he's made about $16M over the last 6 seasons), but he still gave up serious money (~25% of his career earnings).

I remember Joe Johnson leaving Nash's Phoenix Suns for Atlanta (who finished 13-69 the season before) because he wanted to live in Atlanta.

I think your assessment of Beal is spot-on: he is the face of the franchise and he is invested in the city. Like you said, he could make the same money elsewhere and potentially be on a more competitive team, but I just think he, like Lillard, has other priorities that factor heavily into his decision.

[Dark Faze]

Just thinking of a few moves:

Bertans, Hachimura, Brown to Hawks for Collins, Snell, possibly a filler piece.

I think it achieves what the Hawks want all the way around, provided they maximize the talent we give them. If they can get all three guys playing decently well/confidently, then their combined abilities could make up for Collins absence in terms of this years playoff run. They wanted to pay Collins somewhere around 90 million, probably over 4 years, so around 23 million per. The salaries on offer here represent around that value, and there's potential Hachimura could end up being a similarly valuable player to Collins long term if he reaches his ceiling.

For the Wiz, it's minimizing risk of the development of Rui and Brown for the sake of acquiring a long term talent at PF that fits our timeline.

If such a move were to take place, it'd probably be very important to get a Brad for Oubre salary match deal going on, because we'd be in the tax if forced to take on Wiggins in addition to paying a max to Collins.

Hopefully our own top 3 pick + Collins + Minny pick + Wiseman + Deni would put us in a terrific position to rebuild quickly.

I'd be willing to eat a year of paying the lux tax in order to secure those assets if the only way to make the deal happen in the summer is to take on Wiggins, but the problem is due to the Wall trade we wouldn't be able to use a first round pick to move on from Wiggins contract for salary relief--we'd have to offer like a 2027 first given the protections on the Wall pick.

[nate33]

Just thinking of a few moves:

Bertans, Hachimura, Brown to Hawks for Collins, Snell, possibly a filler piece.

I think it achieves what the Hawks want all the way around, provided they maximize the talent we give them. If they can get all three guys playing decently well/confidently, then their combined abilities could make up for Collins absence in terms of this years playoff run. They wanted to pay Collins somewhere around 90 million, probably over 4 years, so around 23 million per. The salaries on offer here represent around that value, and there's potential Hachimura could end up being a similarly valuable player to Collins long term if he reaches his ceiling.

For the Wiz, it's minimizing risk of the development of Rui and Brown for the sake of acquiring a long term talent at PF that fits our timeline.

If such a move were to take place, it'd probably be very important to get a Brad for Oubre salary match deal going on, because we'd be in the tax if forced to take on Wiggins in addition to paying a max to Collins.

Hopefully our own top 3 pick + Collins + Minny pick + Wiseman + Deni would put us in a terrific position to rebuild quickly.

I'd be willing to eat a year of paying the lux tax in order to secure those assets if the only way to make the deal happen in the summer is to take on Wiggins, but the problem is due to the Wall trade we wouldn't be able to use a first round pick to move on from Wiggins contract for salary relief--we'd have to offer like a 2027 first given the protections on the Wall pick.

With Bertans off the books, we might be able to pay Westbrook, Wiggins and Collins without paying the luxtax.

Let's see: Westbrook, Wiggins, Collins, Bryant and Avdija total $113M. Our top pick and the Minny pick are another $13M or so. That's $126M. Wiseman is $9M, but I'd like to flip him for another draft pick that might cost $5M. So that's $131M for 8 players. Hmmm. Probably can't stay under.

[TGW]

Only problem is there's no way the Hawks do that. Bertans, at this point, is a negative value contract. Hachimura and Brown have neutral to no value.

[payitforward]

...Bertans, Hachimura, Brown to Hawks for Collins, Snell, possibly a filler piece....

Only problem is there's no way the Hawks do that. Bertans, at this point, is a negative value contract. Hachimura and Brown have neutral to no value.

I don't know whether they do or don't do that, but the idea that Brown & Hachimura have neutral or negative value is pretty clearly wrong.

Really the question is how we'd be able to pay Collins -- we wouldn't.

[TGW]

...Bertans, Hachimura, Brown to Hawks for Collins, Snell, possibly a filler piece....

Only problem is there's no way the Hawks do that. Bertans, at this point, is a negative value contract. Hachimura and Brown have neutral to no value.

I don't know whether they do or don't do that, but the idea that Brown & Hachimura have neutral or negative value is pretty clearly wrong.

Really the question is how we'd be able to pay Collins -- we wouldn't.

How is it clearly wrong, pif? You think Hachimura and Brown have any value other than being cheap bodies? I'll let you in on something...they don't have any value.

And I didn't say they had negative value...that's Bertans.

[nate33]

Hachimura definitely has value. Teams would surely trade a late 1st round pick for him.

[PaulinVA]

Wizards' asking price for Bradley Beal revealed

"Three different executives, who spoke to the News, defined the price as steep. One longtime GM laid it out specifically: three unprotected first-rounders, two pick swaps, a young player and an expiring contract."

https://www.yardbarker.com/nba/articles/wizards_asking_price_for_bradley_beal_revealed/s1_16514_34095653?utm_source=mb&utm_medium=email&mb_edition=20210214&mb_loc=left_h

[nate33]

Wizards' asking price for Bradley Beal revealed

"Three different executives, who spoke to the News, defined the price as steep. One longtime GM laid it out specifically: three unprotected first-rounders, two pick swaps, a young player and an expiring contract."

https://www.yardbarker.com/nba/articles/wizards_asking_price_for_bradley_beal_revealed/s1_16514_34095653?utm_source=mb&utm_medium=email&mb_edition=20210214&mb_loc=left_h

Yeah, that's pretty much what the market has established following the trades of Davis, George, Jrue and Harden.

[PaulinVA]

I find it comforting (even pleasantly shocking) that we seem at finally HAVE an "asking price," as opposed to all the perpetual "he ain't up for trade!" talk.

[payitforward]

...Bertans, Hachimura, Brown to Hawks for Collins, Snell, possibly a filler piece....

Only problem is there's no way the Hawks do that. Bertans, at this point, is a negative value contract. Hachimura and Brown have neutral to no value.

I don't know whether they do or don't do that, but the idea that Brown & Hachimura have neutral or negative value is pretty clearly wrong.

Really the question is how we'd be able to pay Collins -- we wouldn't.

How is it clearly wrong, pif? You think Hachimura and Brown have any value other than being cheap bodies? I'll let you in on something...they don't have any value.

And I didn't say they had negative value...that's Bertans.

Right -- sorry....

As to Rui & Brown, we can agree to disagree. I think either one would bring a 2021 R1 pick. It's easy to forget that Troy Brown is still only 21 years old & played extremely well last year. & Rui would draw a lot of interest too -- esp. given the marketing package he brings.