KNICKS - Houston PG

[Chanel Bomber]

What is it with people insisting that IQ has to be a traditional PG or a starter? He is a complimentary guard who can be the playmaker and off ball scorer. He is thriving as a bench player right now so why mess with a good thing? A great 6th man sometimes is better than a good starter. Ask the Clippers.

Since you mentioned the Clippers, I think he can be better than Lou Will.

But now is the time to develop him for him to potentially become more than that.

Why mess with a good thing? That's the conservative approach imo. Yes, I can obviously see how Quickley could succeed in a complementary guard role. What if his ceiling is actually higher than that? Oughtn't we to try and see if it is?

I don't actually care that Quickley starts or comes off the bench for his own development's sake but Quickley simply outplayed Payton for a significant stretch and fits better with the starters due to his ability to shoot (not necessarily for him but for the starters).

You play the players based off of what is working. Right now it doesn't matter that Rose and IQ are coming off the bench because the 2nd unit is winning us games. That's all starters and bench is, 1st team and 2nd team. If your 1st team can be a +3 and 2nd team is a +10 then guess what? you just won!

People want to harp on Payton but he is playing tough defense and getting timely baskets attacking the basket when the team needs them. That is all his job is as a starter. He isn't the playmaker on the 1st unit. Everything goes through Randle on purpose.

Can Quickley potentially be better than Lou Will? Sure but no one is stopping him or limiting his progress. On the 2ne unit he has free reign to play his game without being religated as a spot up shooter. That is not how he will get better. His game is already earning him more and more minutes and he is thriving playing next to Rose.

IQ's playing time had been steadily decreasing before yesterday's blow-out.

I'm fine with him coming off the bench and sharing ball-handling duties with Rose for the most part. I do believe he should get more minutes however (and not under 20 minutes per game as he's averaged the past 6 games) and get some burn as the lone PG on the floor in a more spread offense.

It's not all or nothing, I'm not arguing that Thibs's handling of IQ is all bad.

I've complained about how Thibs doesn't stagger the starters and the bench on many occasions though. I think both Randle and RJ could benefit from playing with two shooters in the backcourt including Quickley and not always have to face a zone. I stand by that. One simple solution would be to increase IQ's minutes and use the additional playing time to stagger the line-ups.

[rajajackal]

RJ is not untradeable for like, luka, but i'm not trading him for a 1B, 1C scorer without leadership skills

[stuporman]

Two really solid wins in a row on a back to back against opponents a good team should beat, not to say the Knicks are a 'good team' yet but if they want to be considered one these are games they need to win so it's a nice sign that they did.

Rickley is looking sweet...the 2nd unit which already was a spark at times is now looking like a problem for other teams since Rose has been added to it. He even has Obi not looking so bustacular anymore....well, less of one at least.

Not going to overreact to RJ but it is a little concerning that he can get into multiple game long funks. He's still really young and consistency is something young players will grow into, he's even younger than IQ and Obi so it's not time to draw conclusions or anything.

[Fat Kat]

Read on Twitter

[thebuzzardman]

RJ is not untradeable for like, luka, but i'm not trading him for a 1B, 1C scorer without leadership skills

I don't think RJ has the upside a #1 option.

I was just kidding when I said package him for LaVine.

Maybe in 3 years they might have to consider if they can upgrade him - it's the same thing any smart team would do with any player.

I think he can be a good #2 option. Honestly, even if his ceiling was "good #3 option on a good team" that's fine because he has a great attitude and plays the right way and plays within himself and mostly lets the game come to him while still being aggressive enough.

At some point the Knicks are going to have to improve the roster but moving RJ isn't one of the paths, at least not in the short term. The obvious places the Knicks need an upgrade are PG (less pressing with the emergence of IQ and acquisition of Rose) and SG or SF, depending on what position you think RJ plays now or future. Or we can just say "Knicks need another good wing"

I mean, I could expand and say they need a stretch 5 for the bench and earlier I stated the Knicks need to improve on both Burks and Bullocks, if not with a "star" than certainly role players who are at least half again as good.

2 or 3 shots in the next draft and the right FA signing and Knicks can have a pretty good team.

[Jeff Van Gully]

Read on Twitter

killer second unit. we just need more punch in the first unit.

let's say for some reason you want to ride out the season with elf... then maybe you want to dip into the warchest and trade some picks for a scoring guard you think can stick long-term.

[Fat Kat]

He puts together a great breakdown of the game

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

[thebuzzardman]

So, lets sort out a few things, expanding on the post above.

It's nice the Knicks are winning some games.
They are playing CLEARLY better basketball than last year, even the "Miller" version.
The defense is much improved.
The offense isn't great, but you can see actual coaching with more wrinkles put in, more actions off the basic plays.

But the team really isn't that good. The record speaks for itself. We're all excited how "Knicks are winning" but a two game winning streak against undermanned teams and they are still two games under .500. They are a half game from the 6th spot, but also could easily slip to 8th or 9th once the Heat and Raptors make a move. Then again, the Hornets might start losing.

So, looking at a borderline playoff team/ good "bad" team or mediocre team.

Like a tweet posted earlier though, the Knicks are in a solid position as a franchise.

Even after with parting with an asset that was barely an asset anymore in DSJr, and a mid 2nd rounder for an obvious upgrade in DRose, The Knicks currently have:

All their own 1st round picks within the next 5 years (They have them further out as well, but 5 years is far enough into the future)
Mav's pick in 2021 and 2023
If not all their own 2nd rounders, then at least one 2nd round pick every year, with a high 2nd round pick in 2021 and multiple 2nd rounders in 2023 and 2024

A youthful roster with some talent and questions but young and cost controlled
RJ, IQ, Mitch, Knox, Obi

Randle is a good player they have control over for another year OR they could move on from if they needed to. He's also young for a vet, basically entering "prime years"

Their role players aren't great, but they aren't bad - most are "ok", they are all paid at an appropriate NBA salary, there is a commitment to none of them longer than a year and most would seem to have some kind of value around the league. I'm not saying finding a taker is easy, but a team might take a flyer on Frank for a decent 2nd rounder and guys like Burks, Noel, Bullocks, Rivers and Payton should at least draw some interest and I'd be surprised if the Knicks didn't trade at least one for a 2nd rounder and maybe the Knicks surprise us and get a late first rounder.

It's nice they are competitive and I'm enjoying it and everyone should, though it's also frustrating the Knicks are playing their way out of a strong chance for a top 7 pick in this upcoming deep draft, but if the FO and scouts have their act together, Knicks should come away with two good players.

And they have enough cap space to take a shot at guys like Trent Jr or THT or some theoretical trade etc.

Future looks pretty good. Can quibble about "they need a franchise guy" or "not set up to be true contenders" but in this season they are on the cusp of the next step up and will need some skill and some luck to maximize that.

[3toheadmelo]

Alright guys, so as some of you know, some of us have been working on trying to get a webcast/podcast type thing going for a while now, and myself, 2010, and jvsimonetti0514 recorded our first test episode tonight for postgame commentary

It's a bit long, we were aiming for a half hour, but it kind of got away from us, you know how it is. Anyways, here it is if you want a listen, any feedback is appreciated.

https://soundcloud.com/kyle-toce-914542706/pod-in-development

Spoiler:

Melo, you got a mention, Jim was killin' one of ya man's. He bodied one of your favorite players.

Lol ima listen to it later today

[3toheadmelo]

Sounds like I missed a good game, I’ll watch it today and give my thoughts

[iLLmatic860]

When my son was born in 2020 I told him the Knicks cant be bad forever. Its a start of a new decade and you wont grow up into the lolKnicks era

So far we on the right path. By the time hes older Knicks "will be cool again"

[rajajackal]

When my son was born in 2020 I told him the Knicks cant be bad forever. Its a start of a new decade and you wont grow up into the lolKnicks era

So far we on the right path. By the time hes older Knicks "will be cool again"

i'm tellin you, d rose smiling ear to ear on the sidelines is one of the "coolest" looks we've had in ages. that's exactly the sort of thing that gets players' attention

[thebuzzardman]

It's going to make people angry, but the Knicks have kind of developed Payton over the course of this season.

Not unlike they made Randle better. Or at least have him playing the best version of himself.

Development isn't only for the players who were drafted.

[GEOLINK]

Read on Twitter

Show this headline to folks last week they wouldn’t believe it.

[Chanel Bomber]

Alright guys, so as some of you know, some of us have been working on trying to get a webcast/podcast type thing going for a while now, and myself, 2010, and jvsimonetti0514 recorded our first test episode tonight for postgame commentary

It's a bit long, we were aiming for a half hour, but it kind of got away from us, you know how it is. Anyways, here it is if you want a listen, any feedback is appreciated.

https://soundcloud.com/kyle-toce-914542706/pod-in-development

Spoiler:

That was a great listen.

[NYKinMIA]

Get rid of Mitch.

We really need a thumbs down button.

I was completely kidding about Mitch.

[robillionaire]

So, lets sort out a few things, expanding on the post above.

It's nice the Knicks are winning some games.
They are playing CLEARLY better basketball than last year, even the "Miller" version.
The defense is much improved.
The offense isn't great, but you can see actual coaching with more wrinkles put in, more actions off the basic plays.

But the team really isn't that good. The record speaks for itself. We're all excited how "Knicks are winning" but a two game winning streak against undermanned teams and they are still two games under .500. They are a half game from the 6th spot, but also could easily slip to 8th or 9th once the Heat and Raptors make a move. Then again, the Hornets might start losing.

So, looking at a borderline playoff team/ good "bad" team or mediocre team.

Like a tweet posted earlier though, the Knicks are in a solid position as a franchise.

Even after with parting with an asset that was barely an asset anymore in DSJr, and a mid 2nd rounder for an obvious upgrade in DRose, The Knicks currently have:

All their own 1st round picks within the next 5 years (They have them further out as well, but 5 years is far enough into the future)
Mav's pick in 2021 and 2023
If not all their own 2nd rounders, then at least one 2nd round pick every year, with a high 2nd round pick in 2021 and multiple 2nd rounders in 2023 and 2024

A youthful roster with some talent and questions but young and cost controlled
RJ, IQ, Mitch, Knox, Obi

Randle is a good player they have control over for another year OR they could move on from if they needed to. He's also young for a vet, basically entering "prime years"

Their role players aren't great, but they aren't bad - most are "ok", they are all paid at an appropriate NBA salary, there is a commitment to none of them longer than a year and most would seem to have some kind of value around the league. I'm not saying finding a taker is easy, but a team might take a flyer on Frank for a decent 2nd rounder and guys like Burks, Noel, Bullocks, Rivers and Payton should at least draw some interest and I'd be surprised if the Knicks didn't trade at least one for a 2nd rounder and maybe the Knicks surprise us and get a late first rounder.

It's nice they are competitive and I'm enjoying it and everyone should, though it's also frustrating the Knicks are playing their way out of a strong chance for a top 7 pick in this upcoming deep draft, but if the FO and scouts have their act together, Knicks should come away with two good players.

And they have enough cap space to take a shot at guys like Trent Jr or THT or some theoretical trade etc.

Future looks pretty good. Can quibble about "they need a franchise guy" or "not set up to be true contenders" but in this season they are on the cusp of the next step up and will need some skill and some luck to maximize that.

agreed with most of this except it's a premature analysis because we are probably going to make another big win now trade before the deadline. with that trade will likely solidify us as a borderline low seed playoff team. things are so tight now. a game an a half up and we're in the mix with boston and indy for the 4th seed. a game and a half down and we are duking it out for 11th with the bulls. we still aren't sure how the 4-6 weeks of mitch will hurt the team but I stand by my position that it won't matter that much.

they have decided that "culture" is more important than landing a higher pick in this draft. we will have to hope that they gamble correctly and we land another draft steal like IQ despite the poor draft slots. the mavs are winning now too and they will make the playoffs. they're already in the play-in game and a game out of 8th on a 4 game win streak. that jig is up and the pick will be somewhere around 19th.

also the hornets aren't going to start losing unless something happens to the baby goat lamelo

[cgf]

Knicks yanking me back and forth between playoff optimist and team tank

Knicks the type to get the 7th seed, lose the play-in tournament games, and end up with no lottery pick and no playoff basketball

So now you're worrying about something that literally can not happen, alrighty then

[Fat Kat]

Watch on YouTube

[NYKnickerbocker]

How many more bad games till the “is RJ a bust” thread gets bumped. 1 more? 2? 3?