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Nostrand Ave wrote:snadler wrote:?s=21
A good young core? I don't know about that. I see potential though.
GnarlsOakley wrote:Fury wrote:We are a Beal or LaVine away from being a nice 2nd round team
Knicks fans need to get away from this mentality
Clyde_Style wrote:If Thibs keeps it up with IQ now he has a legit shot at ROY
DaGawd wrote:Clyde_Style wrote:If Thibs keeps it up with IQ now he has a legit shot at ROY
Nah. LaMelo is running away with it. Hype and stats on his side
DaGawd wrote:Clyde_Style wrote:If Thibs keeps it up with IQ now he has a legit shot at ROY
Nah. LaMelo is running away with it. Hype and stats on his side
Reign23 wrote:Nbabrothers wrote:Chanel Bomber wrote:The fact that we're competing now and sailing away from a top 5 pick puts a lot of pressure on:
- RJ or Quickley to become a star as an on-ball player.
- The FO to sign or trade for a legitimate superstar like Kawhi.
Without either happening, and without any chance at acquiring a high-end talent at the top of the draft, the Knicks will be stuck in mediocrity, much like the Orlando Magic or the Indiana Pacers. It sure seems this is the direction we're moving.
The best-case scenario for the Knicks is that they end up with the 9th or 10th best record in the East, win the play-in tournament and make the playoffs as the 8th seed, and still retain their lottery pick and move up in the draft and get a top 4 pick. Wishful thinking, but that would (potentially) turn this franchise around completely.
I agree that scenario is what we should be playing for. Hopefully be the 10th snd win in the play in tournament while receiving a decent first round pick. Then we can trade future draft picks including our second rounders to move up in this highly talented 2021 draft class. A dream would be getting the 1 through 3 pick. Wild and pray full pick for Cade Cunningham.
I don't think that is the way it works. you will get the lottery position AFTER the play in tournament.
lets say we are the ninth seed. then we play the 10th seed first. If we prevail, we will have a shot to make the playoffs against the loser of the 7th vs 8th game. And if we win this one too, we will pick outside the lottery.
newyorker4ever wrote:Nostrand Ave wrote:snadler wrote:?s=21
A good young core? I don't know about that. I see potential though.
I'm just hoping they don't go off course of this rebuild, like every other GM we've had has done, and trade those picks for players that won't make us as good a team as we need to be. Stay with the rebuild through the draft.
thebuzzardman wrote:rajajackal wrote:RJ is not untradeable for like, luka, but i'm not trading him for a 1B, 1C scorer without leadership skills
I don't think RJ has the upside a #1 option.
I was just kidding when I said package him for LaVine.
Maybe in 3 years they might have to consider if they can upgrade him - it's the same thing any smart team would do with any player.
I think he can be a good #2 option. Honestly, even if his ceiling was "good #3 option on a good team" that's fine because he has a great attitude and plays the right way and plays within himself and mostly lets the game come to him while still being aggressive enough.
At some point the Knicks are going to have to improve the roster but moving RJ isn't one of the paths, at least not in the short term. The obvious places the Knicks need an upgrade are PG (less pressing with the emergence of IQ and acquisition of Rose) and SG or SF, depending on what position you think RJ plays now or future. Or we can just say "Knicks need another good wing"
I mean, I could expand and say they need a stretch 5 for the bench and earlier I stated the Knicks need to improve on both Burks and Bullocks, if not with a "star" than certainly role players who are at least half again as good.
2 or 3 shots in the next draft and the right FA signing and Knicks can have a pretty good team.
Nbabrothers wrote:rajajackal wrote:just wanna say i've been paying attention to this knox/obi chemistry since preseason. it would be a sin for our team not to give this a closer look as the season progresses
A lineup off the bench of Quickley, Rose, Burks, Obi snd Noel is great to have and it’s hard to replace Burks for Knox when he’s inconsistent and Burks is a better three point shooter.
DaGawd wrote:The Knicks are mediocre.. they’re kinda good.. not great but good.. the games they’ve lost are mostly to good teams. And they’ve been in most of those games just couldn’t close because we don’t have a true closer yet. But this Knicks team is a legit playoff team in the east. We’ve seen enough at this point to say that
Chanel Bomber wrote:Gravy wrote:Chanel Bomber wrote:The fact that we're competing now and sailing away from a top 5 pick puts a lot of pressure on:
- RJ or Quickley to become a star as an on-ball player.
- The FO to sign or trade for a legitimate superstar like Kawhi.
Without either happening, and without any chance at acquiring a high-end talent at the top of the draft, the Knicks will be stuck in mediocrity, much like the Orlando Magic or the Indiana Pacers. It sure seems this is the direction we're moving.
The best-case scenario for the Knicks is that they end up with the 9th or 10th best record in the East, win the play-in tournament and make the playoffs as the 8th seed, and still retain their lottery pick and move up in the draft and get a top 4 pick. Wishful thinking, but that would (potentially) turn this franchise around completely.
The Magic spent the last 5 years making bad trades and drafting busts at the top of the draft. Drafting high picks didn't save them. They are more proof that getting high picks wont automatically make you a great team.
Drafting high in the draft doesn't automatically make you a great team, you're right. Sometimes the best player in the draft isn't selected in the top 5. I had Haliburton as the best prospect in last year's draft, and he fell to #12.
Drafting high does increase your chances though.
About the Magic, they did draft Oladipo, Gordon and Hezonja in the top 5. My point was, for the last 5 years they have been a treadmill team with no pathway of acquiring high-end talent. Vucevic is their Randle, and until RJ and Quickley pan out, it's entirely possible they're our Aaron Gordons. Granted, we're more attractive in free agency than Orlando, but I wouldn't just assume that franchise players are gonna sign here because we're the 7th seed in the East every year, not to mention our young guys will get paid and eat up a chunk of our cap sooner or later and thus hurt our ability to sign free agents.
Gravy wrote:Chanel Bomber wrote:Gravy wrote:The Magic spent the last 5 years making bad trades and drafting busts at the top of the draft. Drafting high picks didn't save them. They are more proof that getting high picks wont automatically make you a great team.
Drafting high in the draft doesn't automatically make you a great team, you're right. Sometimes the best player in the draft isn't selected in the top 5. I had Haliburton as the best prospect in last year's draft, and he fell to #12.
Drafting high does increase your chances though.
About the Magic, they did draft Oladipo, Gordon and Hezonja in the top 5. My point was, for the last 5 years they have been a treadmill team with no pathway of acquiring high-end talent. Vucevic is their Randle, and until RJ and Quickley pan out, it's entirely possible they're our Aaron Gordons. Granted, we're more attractive in free agency than Orlando, but I wouldn't just assume that franchise players are gonna sign here because we're the 7th seed in the East every year, not to mention our young guys will get paid and eat up a chunk of our cap sooner or later and thus hurt our ability to sign free agents.
The Magic absolutely had many chances to acquire high end talent. They drafted Sabonis and traded him. In 2017 they could have had Markkanen or Donovan Mitchell, In 2018 they could have picked Sexton or SGA and their 2nd round on Mitchell Robinson. Last year they picked Cole over Quickley.
Their team right now could be
Sabonis/Mitch
Markkanen
Gordon
Dipo
Sexton
RIP mags Are We Ther Yet wrote:Payton/Rivers can still STFU and GTFO. Bullock has been a little better but...yeah...bounce him too. Thibs has been working miracles amidst his penchant for vets/short rotations. I don't like how he freezes Knox/Frank out but whatever. I am torn between enjoying the team and wanting a shot at high draft picks. The silver lining is we have been decent recently with the lower picks. Hoping that continues.
In the end...enjoying wins is much needed for the morale of the players and the fans. Overall...Thibs is making this a much more enjoyable season than any of us imagined.
thebuzzardman wrote:So, lets sort out a few things, expanding on the post above.
It's nice the Knicks are winning some games.
They are playing CLEARLY better basketball than last year, even the "Miller" version.
The defense is much improved.
The offense isn't great, but you can see actual coaching with more wrinkles put in, more actions off the basic plays.
But the team really isn't that good. The record speaks for itself. We're all excited how "Knicks are winning" but a two game winning streak against undermanned teams and they are still two games under .500. They are a half game from the 6th spot, but also could easily slip to 8th or 9th once the Heat and Raptors make a move. Then again, the Hornets might start losing.
So, looking at a borderline playoff team/ good "bad" team or mediocre team.
Like a tweet posted earlier though, the Knicks are in a solid position as a franchise.
Even after with parting with an asset that was barely an asset anymore in DSJr, and a mid 2nd rounder for an obvious upgrade in DRose, The Knicks currently have:
All their own 1st round picks within the next 5 years (They have them further out as well, but 5 years is far enough into the future)
Mav's pick in 2021 and 2023
If not all their own 2nd rounders, then at least one 2nd round pick every year, with a high 2nd round pick in 2021 and multiple 2nd rounders in 2023 and 2024
A youthful roster with some talent and questions but young and cost controlled
RJ, IQ, Mitch, Knox, Obi
Randle is a good player they have control over for another year OR they could move on from if they needed to. He's also young for a vet, basically entering "prime years"
Their role players aren't great, but they aren't bad - most are "ok", they are all paid at an appropriate NBA salary, there is a commitment to none of them longer than a year and most would seem to have some kind of value around the league. I'm not saying finding a taker is easy, but a team might take a flyer on Frank for a decent 2nd rounder and guys like Burks, Noel, Bullocks, Rivers and Payton should at least draw some interest and I'd be surprised if the Knicks didn't trade at least one for a 2nd rounder and maybe the Knicks surprise us and get a late first rounder.
It's nice they are competitive and I'm enjoying it and everyone should, though it's also frustrating the Knicks are playing their way out of a strong chance for a top 7 pick in this upcoming deep draft, but if the FO and scouts have their act together, Knicks should come away with two good players.
And they have enough cap space to take a shot at guys like Trent Jr or THT or some theoretical trade etc.
Future looks pretty good. Can quibble about "they need a franchise guy" or "not set up to be true contenders" but in this season they are on the cusp of the next step up and will need some skill and some luck to maximize that.
Chanel Bomber wrote:Gravy wrote:Chanel Bomber wrote:Drafting high in the draft doesn't automatically make you a great team, you're right. Sometimes the best player in the draft isn't selected in the top 5. I had Haliburton as the best prospect in last year's draft, and he fell to #12.
Drafting high does increase your chances though.
About the Magic, they did draft Oladipo, Gordon and Hezonja in the top 5. My point was, for the last 5 years they have been a treadmill team with no pathway of acquiring high-end talent. Vucevic is their Randle, and until RJ and Quickley pan out, it's entirely possible they're our Aaron Gordons. Granted, we're more attractive in free agency than Orlando, but I wouldn't just assume that franchise players are gonna sign here because we're the 7th seed in the East every year, not to mention our young guys will get paid and eat up a chunk of our cap sooner or later and thus hurt our ability to sign free agents.
The Magic absolutely had many chances to acquire high end talent. They drafted Sabonis and traded him. In 2017 they could have had Markkanen or Donovan Mitchell, In 2018 they could have picked Sexton or SGA and their 2nd round on Mitchell Robinson. Last year they picked Cole over Quickley.
Their team right now could be
Sabonis/Mitch
Markkanen
Gordon
Dipo
Sexton
You can play that what if game if they had drafted in the top 5, except you could be talking about Luka, Tatum, Ja, Zion instead of Sexton, Markkanen or SGA. That's my point. You're not gonna hit on every draft pick. I know that. Having a top 5 pick doesn't guarantee that you're gonna draft a franchise player. But it increases your odds.
Interesting how the guy who was in the room for the Magic when they made all those bad picks and FO decisions now works for the Knicks.
Chanel Bomber wrote:thebuzzardman wrote:So, lets sort out a few things, expanding on the post above.
It's nice the Knicks are winning some games.
They are playing CLEARLY better basketball than last year, even the "Miller" version.
The defense is much improved.
The offense isn't great, but you can see actual coaching with more wrinkles put in, more actions off the basic plays.
But the team really isn't that good. The record speaks for itself. We're all excited how "Knicks are winning" but a two game winning streak against undermanned teams and they are still two games under .500. They are a half game from the 6th spot, but also could easily slip to 8th or 9th once the Heat and Raptors make a move. Then again, the Hornets might start losing.
So, looking at a borderline playoff team/ good "bad" team or mediocre team.
Like a tweet posted earlier though, the Knicks are in a solid position as a franchise.
Even after with parting with an asset that was barely an asset anymore in DSJr, and a mid 2nd rounder for an obvious upgrade in DRose, The Knicks currently have:
All their own 1st round picks within the next 5 years (They have them further out as well, but 5 years is far enough into the future)
Mav's pick in 2021 and 2023
If not all their own 2nd rounders, then at least one 2nd round pick every year, with a high 2nd round pick in 2021 and multiple 2nd rounders in 2023 and 2024
A youthful roster with some talent and questions but young and cost controlled
RJ, IQ, Mitch, Knox, Obi
Randle is a good player they have control over for another year OR they could move on from if they needed to. He's also young for a vet, basically entering "prime years"
Their role players aren't great, but they aren't bad - most are "ok", they are all paid at an appropriate NBA salary, there is a commitment to none of them longer than a year and most would seem to have some kind of value around the league. I'm not saying finding a taker is easy, but a team might take a flyer on Frank for a decent 2nd rounder and guys like Burks, Noel, Bullocks, Rivers and Payton should at least draw some interest and I'd be surprised if the Knicks didn't trade at least one for a 2nd rounder and maybe the Knicks surprise us and get a late first rounder.
It's nice they are competitive and I'm enjoying it and everyone should, though it's also frustrating the Knicks are playing their way out of a strong chance for a top 7 pick in this upcoming deep draft, but if the FO and scouts have their act together, Knicks should come away with two good players.
And they have enough cap space to take a shot at guys like Trent Jr or THT or some theoretical trade etc.
Future looks pretty good. Can quibble about "they need a franchise guy" or "not set up to be true contenders" but in this season they are on the cusp of the next step up and will need some skill and some luck to maximize that.
The fact that we're competing now and sailing away from a top 5 pick puts a lot of pressure on:
- RJ or Quickley to become a star as an on-ball player.
- The FO to sign or trade for a legitimate superstar like Kawhi.
Without either happening, and without any chance at acquiring a high-end talent at the top of the draft, the Knicks will be stuck in mediocrity, much like the Orlando Magic or the Indiana Pacers. It sure seems this is the direction we're moving.
The best-case scenario for the Knicks is that they end up with the 9th or 10th best record in the East, win the play-in tournament and make the playoffs as the 8th seed, and still retain their lottery pick and move up in the draft and get a top 4 pick. Wishful thinking, but that would (potentially) turn this franchise around completely.
vallen wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:Nostrand Ave wrote:
A good young core? I don't know about that. I see potential though.
I'm just hoping they don't go off course of this rebuild, like every other GM we've had has done, and trade those picks for players that won't make us as good a team as we need to be. Stay with the rebuild through the draft.
You can only rebuild through the draft so long. Rookie deals expire and you have to either pull the trigger and waste cap flexibility on middle of the road guys that you just keep recycling every few years. Thats called treadmilling just like DET, ORL, MIN, WAS, NO who have stayed in that "rebuild" mode for decades. Despite some, maybe all, of those teams drafting all-stars at certain points.
You dont jump from a lottto team to a championship team merely by drafting unless your getting a Lebron or Kobe. You gradually get better like we are doing and attract stars that may want to join a team on the rise making us into a contender. I swear this board would rather lose with Rookies than win period.
Gravy wrote:Chanel Bomber wrote:Gravy wrote:The Magic absolutely had many chances to acquire high end talent. They drafted Sabonis and traded him. In 2017 they could have had Markkanen or Donovan Mitchell, In 2018 they could have picked Sexton or SGA and their 2nd round on Mitchell Robinson. Last year they picked Cole over Quickley.
Their team right now could be
Sabonis/Mitch
Markkanen
Gordon
Dipo
Sexton
You can play that what if game if they had drafted in the top 5, except you could be talking about Luka, Tatum, Ja, Zion instead of Sexton, Markkanen or SGA. That's my point. You're not gonna hit on every draft pick. I know that. Having a top 5 pick doesn't guarantee that you're gonna draft a franchise player. But it increases your odds.
Interesting how the guy who was in the room for the Magic when they made all those bad picks and FO decisions now works for the Knicks.
The teams that got Ja and Zion didnt even tank, they won 33 games far more than we did lol. The Luka and Tatum drafts were before the odds changed. You dont get rewarded for tanking anymore. Last year the team that won more games than us got Lamelo.
If yall are still waiting for Thibs or any coach in the playoff race to say to his players; ok forget the playoffs lets lose out. Its not happening guys.
