CAN the Celtics be Fixed this year?

[return2glory]

Ainge needs to do better. Brad needs to do better.

Kemba is slowly returning to his all star form. That’s 3 games over 20 points now in his last 5, on nearly 50% from the field his those 3 good games.

Tatum bringing up the ball lately the last 2 weeks is not working. Enough of that. Put the ball in Kemba’s hands more.

Brown and Tatum aren’t moving the ball, especially Brown.

TT, Semi, Waters, RWill all need to go, the sooner the better.

Trade for a guy that’s 6’8 or taller than can score and defend. My two favorites are J. Grant and A. Gordon. Barnes would be a 3rd option. We need that Hayward replacement that can give us 17,5,5.

We aren’t as bad as our record. Kemba is slowly getting back to his all star form. Tatum, Walker, Brown and Smart have probably played less than 5 games together.

Draft Drew Timme from Gonzaga.

[SMTBSI]

I always say, the worse we play, the less interested I am in bandages. When we're close, I'm looking for reinforcements. When we're not close, I'm looking for transformational stuff.

If this is how it's going to be, I'm biding my time, giving Kemba time to rebuild value so we can pay less to trade him (or, Red willing, actually get something for him), and trying to figure out who that next young piece is going to be. That takes time, and means no instant gratification.

I've said it many times over the last couple of seasons, that I'm more than willing to take a step back, rather than overcommit to a non-contender. Being afraid of that, and overreacting by pushing all-in right now, will be very harmful to us longterm, imo.

Tatum and Brown are as locked up as locked up can be. Folks imagining they're going to start demanding trades the moment things get a little rough, with 3.5-4.5 years left on their first big contracts: take a deep breath. Time is on our side here.

[31to6]

I’m not hearing many positive comments about Brad from his players lately. Maybe silence is fine, but maybe this is getting close to a classic time for a coaching change to shake things up and revitalize a seemingly moribund franchise. Marcus Smart can’t be the ONLY emotional leader. “Step in” still kills me.

Brad’s been great. But we seem to need a lot more coaching than we’re getting right now. I’d be happy to send him and his nameless band of low-tier assistants packing (no disrespect to ET, who just got here — late — and has apparently done Jack squat).

[CelticsPride18]

I would do a Kemba for Horford trade. That way Brad would have a player he can run his offense and cut all this ISO BS.

[playa-hater]

funny how this thread is up when I have this at the bottom of this page. But if it's anything like the other. It will be like "it's a knee jerk reaction" "we just need more polish". then after a 2 -game winning streak, Ernest will declare that "this thread didn't age well"

[SMTBSI]

Just take some actual risks. Overpay for a trade.

I'd argue that overpaying is being risk averse. Doing the thing that'll give the fanbase a short-term endorphin pop and buy you some time off the hotseat, but harms the team longterm.

Ainge takes risks, they're just not the risks fans like. Sticking with your draft picks is a risk - you're going with a high-ceiling / low-floor ticket, over the predictable low-ceiling / high-floor vet you could have traded that pick for. When they don't pan out, you get crucified, by the same people that wanted you to take risks.

Playing chicken with Indy was a huge risk. Yes, it blew up in our faces, but it was certainly a risk. Taking the first offer Indy put on the table would have been the safe move - exactly the opposite of what everyone professes to want.

There's a lot of things to criticize Ainge about. But being risk averse is not one of them. Folks' real problem with Ainge isn't that he doesn't take risks, it's that he doesn't take the same risks they'd take. Which is valid - I'm not trying to defend Ainge from all criticism here. Some risks are smarter than others. It's a very open question as to whether he's taken the right ones.

[31to6]

I want to harp on Brad just a little bit more: you know the archetype of a “square” head coach in movies who never takes risks, shows emotion, or has any fun? But then X happens (a robot joins their team, or Michael Jordan in a kid’s body, or whatever) and then its montage time of the coach living it up and the team winning and suddenly it’s the championship game and it all comes down to the coach throwing caution/squaredom to the wind?

Brad is that square and I feel like the montage is never happening. Set up an offense to get the ball moving. Do something to get the shot selection better. Incorporate some zone schemes on defense. Try Tacko for a few minutes in the 2nd or 3rd quarter just to mix things up and get a stalled team going. Hold a **** practice or two. Get laid, and/or get robot Michael Jordan in a kid’s body — something! Or prepare for the off ramp, it’s been great, you helped us rebuild, but we really want to **** WIN.

[GoCeltics123]

Even one trade can change things. The Jazz were like 13-12 or something last year, then traded for Clarkson, and won like 12 of 13.

This team needs at least one more bench scorer. More than anything a 4 next to Tatum and Brown.

[zoyathedestroya]

Get Marcus Smart healthy.

[JediMasterRevan]

Trade kemba

Hire a new health team
Hire new bench coaches

Get a bench.

Actually might be ok with kemba off the bench to finish this season, but cannot have semi, grant and teague being a regular part of the rotation.

[DarkAzcura]

Just take some actual risks. Overpay for a trade.

I'd argue that overpaying is being risk averse. Doing the thing that'll give the fanbase a short-term endorphin pop and buy you some time off the hotseat, but harms the team longterm.

Ainge takes risks, they're just not the risks fans like. Sticking with your draft picks is a risk - you're going with a high-ceiling / low-floor ticket, over the predictable low-ceiling / high-floor vet you could have traded that pick for. When they don't pan out, you get crucified, by the same people that wanted you to take risks.

Playing chicken with Indy was a huge risk. Yes, it blew up in our faces, but it was certainly a risk. Taking the first offer Indy put on the table would have been the safe move - exactly the opposite of what everyone professes to want.

There's a lot of things to criticize Ainge about. But being risk averse is not one of them. Folks' real problem with Ainge isn't that he doesn't take risks, it's that he doesn't take the same risks they'd take. Which is valid - I'm not trying to defend Ainge from all criticism here. Some risks are smarter than others. It's a very open question as to whether he's taken the right ones.

I think I mentioned it in that post you quoted, but me saying he should take risks isn't to say he doesn't take risks. As you mentioned, it's mainly about taking different risks. I know Ainge. We all know him by now. He has taken a lot of risks and holding on to Brown/Tatum while not trading for the sure thing is a risk in itself, which I recognized.

This is a different game, though. We have 17 years of a sample size now. Ainge doesn't value bench depth enough. He needs to get outside his comfort zone and go for it. I thought he was finally getting it in terms of bench depth in the 2016-2018 era, but it feels like the 2019 disaster has him back in his "old ways" so to speak. I gave him a pass for not getting depth last year, because we had a mass exodus and he saved it with Kemba. This past offseason, though, was incredibly head scratching.

I'm not really looking for a short term pop or anything. I think Brown, Tatum, and Smart can actually be the main top core of a championship team. I think it is time to fill out the team for real. We don't need another huge piece/20 PPG guy. We need depth, scoring, and playmakers in role player/mid-tier starter form.

[JediMasterRevan]

I want to harp on Brad just a little bit more: you know the archetype of a “square” head coach in movies who never takes risks, shows emotion, or has any fun? But then X happens (a robot joins their team, or Michael Jordan in a kid’s body, or whatever) and then its montage time of the coach living it up and the team winning and suddenly it’s the championship game and it all comes down to the coach throwing caution/squaredom to the wind?

Brad is that square and I feel like the montage is never happening. Set up an offense to get the ball moving. Do something to get the shot selection better. Incorporate some zone schemes on defense. Try Tacko for a few minutes in the 2nd or 3rd quarter just to mix things up and get a stalled team going. Hold a **** practice or two. Get laid, and/or get robot Michael Jordan in a kid’s body — something! Or prepare for the off ramp, it’s been great, you helped us rebuild, but we really want to **** WIN.

Excellent post

[flintsky21]

Stop trying to play chess all the time when you should just be playing checkers.

What's our biggest concerns in the offseason? A legit starting C (and someone not undersized for once), and a reliable shooter or two. Two free agent signings, 2 rookie additions, and 26 games into the season later, those are still major concerns that need to be addressed. Indiana offered Turner and McDermott. Just do it. Don't overthink. You wanted to draft a wing shooter but you also need him to defend? Then draft a wing shooter that's already projected to be a good defender (Bey/Bane) instead of rolling your dice.

The Jazz's biggest flaws a couple years ago were the need for a starting PG and a scorer off the bench. They traded for Conley. They traded for Clarkson. They gave up picks, but who cares when you're contending? They know what they needed. They address those. Don't overthink it. Just do it.

[SMTBSI]

Spoiler:

Just take some actual risks. Overpay for a trade.

I'd argue that overpaying is being risk averse. Doing the thing that'll give the fanbase a short-term endorphin pop and buy you some time off the hotseat, but harms the team longterm.

Ainge takes risks, they're just not the risks fans like. Sticking with your draft picks is a risk - you're going with a high-ceiling / low-floor ticket, over the predictable low-ceiling / high-floor vet you could have traded that pick for. When they don't pan out, you get crucified, by the same people that wanted you to take risks.

Playing chicken with Indy was a huge risk. Yes, it blew up in our faces, but it was certainly a risk. Taking the first offer Indy put on the table would have been the safe move - exactly the opposite of what everyone professes to want.

There's a lot of things to criticize Ainge about. But being risk averse is not one of them. Folks' real problem with Ainge isn't that he doesn't take risks, it's that he doesn't take the same risks they'd take. Which is valid - I'm not trying to defend Ainge from all criticism here. Some risks are smarter than others. It's a very open question as to whether he's taken the right ones.

I think I mentioned it in that post you quoted, but me saying he should take risks isn't to say he doesn't take risks. As you mentioned, it's mainly about taking different risks. I know Ainge. We all know him by now. He has taken a lot of risks and holding on to Brown/Tatum while not trading for the sure thing is a risk in itself, which I recognized.

This is a different game, though. We have 17 years of a sample size now. Ainge doesn't value bench depth enough. He needs to get outside his comfort zone and go for it. I thought he was finally getting it in terms of bench depth in the 2016-2018 era, but it feels like the 2019 disaster has him back in his "old ways" so to speak. I gave him a pass for not getting depth last year, because we had a mass exodus and he saved it with Kemba. This past offseason, though, was incredibly head scratching.

I'm not really looking for a short term pop or anything. I think Brown, Tatum, and Smart can actually be the main top core of a championship team. I think it is time to fill out the team for real. We don't need another huge piece/20 PPG guy. We need depth, scoring, and playmakers in role player/mid-tier starter form.

I understand where you're coming from, and I was closer to being on the same page at the start of the season. But, just in my own opinion, a .500 team is not a couple of depth pieces away from a title. So, one of two things is going on here:

- We're actually a .500 team, and I'm no longer interested in overpaying for depth, and am recalibrating towards other objectives.
- We ought to be better than this, and are playing substantially "down" for some reason.

Hopefully it's the latter. But if it is, and were I the GM, I'd want them to show me that's true, before going all-in. If you want reinforcements, show me that you're close, show me that it's the right thing to do for me to go out and get them for you. I'm not just going to take your word for it, you have to show me. If you can't do that, I'm going to GM accordingly.

[DarkAzcura]

Spoiler:

I'd argue that overpaying is being risk averse. Doing the thing that'll give the fanbase a short-term endorphin pop and buy you some time off the hotseat, but harms the team longterm.

Ainge takes risks, they're just not the risks fans like. Sticking with your draft picks is a risk - you're going with a high-ceiling / low-floor ticket, over the predictable low-ceiling / high-floor vet you could have traded that pick for. When they don't pan out, you get crucified, by the same people that wanted you to take risks.

Playing chicken with Indy was a huge risk. Yes, it blew up in our faces, but it was certainly a risk. Taking the first offer Indy put on the table would have been the safe move - exactly the opposite of what everyone professes to want.

There's a lot of things to criticize Ainge about. But being risk averse is not one of them. Folks' real problem with Ainge isn't that he doesn't take risks, it's that he doesn't take the same risks they'd take. Which is valid - I'm not trying to defend Ainge from all criticism here. Some risks are smarter than others. It's a very open question as to whether he's taken the right ones.

I think I mentioned it in that post you quoted, but me saying he should take risks isn't to say he doesn't take risks. As you mentioned, it's mainly about taking different risks. I know Ainge. We all know him by now. He has taken a lot of risks and holding on to Brown/Tatum while not trading for the sure thing is a risk in itself, which I recognized.

This is a different game, though. We have 17 years of a sample size now. Ainge doesn't value bench depth enough. He needs to get outside his comfort zone and go for it. I thought he was finally getting it in terms of bench depth in the 2016-2018 era, but it feels like the 2019 disaster has him back in his "old ways" so to speak. I gave him a pass for not getting depth last year, because we had a mass exodus and he saved it with Kemba. This past offseason, though, was incredibly head scratching.

I'm not really looking for a short term pop or anything. I think Brown, Tatum, and Smart can actually be the main top core of a championship team. I think it is time to fill out the team for real. We don't need another huge piece/20 PPG guy. We need depth, scoring, and playmakers in role player/mid-tier starter form.

I understand where you're coming from, and I was closer to being on the same page at the start of the season. But, just in my own opinion, a .500 team is not a couple of depth pieces away from a title. So, one of two things is going on here:

- We're actually a .500 team, and I'm no longer interested in overpaying for depth, and am recalibrating towards other objectives.
- We ought to be better than this, and are playing substantially "down" for some reason.

Hopefully it's the latter. But if it is, and were I the GM, I'd want them to show me that's true, before going all-in. If you want reinforcements, show me that you're close, show me that it's the right thing to do for me to go out and get them for you. I'm not just going to take your word for it, you have to show me. If you can't do that, I'm going to GM accordingly.

I personally feel like they have shown they are close by making the ECF 2 out of 3 years. Instead of supplementing the roster in the last 3 years, we have been leaking players (except Kemba). Ainge put them in this position, imo. They did show out for years by overachieving, but they have not been rewarded. It's hard to keep playing hard as nails when you keep seeing talent disappear with no legitimate replacements. Just imo.

[Fencer reregistered]

I think it's time to firm up some roles, so that Brad can be much more aggressive about teaching the roles.

I continue to favor the plan:
-- Send Kemba to the bench, so as to facilitate ...
-- ... 2 of Kemba and the Jays on the floor at all times.
-- The offense is high screen/roll and mismatch-iso. Don't try to change that now. But do focus hard on getting guys to cut and otherwise relocate to receive passes in good position.
-- Any of Kemba, Smart, Pritchard or a Jay has the green light to start an action. Anybody else should take a great shot (or drive) if they have it, but get rid of the ball ASAP otherwise. (If 2+ of Kemba/Smart/Pritchard are out, substitute PGs may need to get in on this.)
-- Basically give up on the Teague experiment.
-- Nobody is punished for missing a good shot, unless it happens a lot.

[Tyakack]

This season is unfixable in my eyes. We ain't doing anything meaningful this year.... And I said that a long time ago before I realized we sucked this much. Long term, if you want to win a championship fire brad stevens. He is a decent- pretty good coach at best and at his worst he is absolutely dreadful. I don't know who to replace him with all I know is he ain't the guy unless we are a stacked team that even he can't screw up.

The fact of the matter is this team is so poorly constructed I don't know what to do. This is Danny's fault. He chose to make or not make the moves that lead to this roster... And this is the outcome. Danny and Stevens have both failed, hard. This team has no future until danny gets off his ass and does something.

[SMTBSI]

I think I mentioned it in that post you quoted, but me saying he should take risks isn't to say he doesn't take risks. As you mentioned, it's mainly about taking different risks. I know Ainge. We all know him by now. He has taken a lot of risks and holding on to Brown/Tatum while not trading for the sure thing is a risk in itself, which I recognized.

This is a different game, though. We have 17 years of a sample size now. Ainge doesn't value bench depth enough. He needs to get outside his comfort zone and go for it. I thought he was finally getting it in terms of bench depth in the 2016-2018 era, but it feels like the 2019 disaster has him back in his "old ways" so to speak. I gave him a pass for not getting depth last year, because we had a mass exodus and he saved it with Kemba. This past offseason, though, was incredibly head scratching.

I'm not really looking for a short term pop or anything. I think Brown, Tatum, and Smart can actually be the main top core of a championship team. I think it is time to fill out the team for real. We don't need another huge piece/20 PPG guy. We need depth, scoring, and playmakers in role player/mid-tier starter form.

I understand where you're coming from, and I was closer to being on the same page at the start of the season. But, just in my own opinion, a .500 team is not a couple of depth pieces away from a title. So, one of two things is going on here:

- We're actually a .500 team, and I'm no longer interested in overpaying for depth, and am recalibrating towards other objectives.
- We ought to be better than this, and are playing substantially "down" for some reason.

Hopefully it's the latter. But if it is, and were I the GM, I'd want them to show me that's true, before going all-in. If you want reinforcements, show me that you're close, show me that it's the right thing to do for me to go out and get them for you. I'm not just going to take your word for it, you have to show me. If you can't do that, I'm going to GM accordingly.

I personally feel like they have shown they are close by making the ECF 2 out of 3 years. Instead of supplementing the roster in the last 3 years, we have been leaking players (except Kemba). Ainge put them in this position, imo. They did show out for years by overachieving, but they have not been rewarded. It's hard to keep playing hard as nails when you keep seeing talent disappear with no legitimate replacements. Just imo.

I have a very top-down concept of roster building, personally. Until you have the top settled, you don't lock yourself out of paths by going into pick debt and making a mess of your payroll. We went through a period where we had big salaries moving in and out (Horford, Hayward, Kemba, Kyrie), and had to let what were perceived as lesser assets and opportunities (Baynes, Rozier, late picks) go or pass by in order to enable those moves, or had to wait to see how a big salary resolved, while lesser FAs went off the board. Then, it happened that two of our max players have lost most of their value to injury. This is always going to make things look rough - very few organizations could weather that without breaking stride.

It seems we differ in that I'm not completely sold on the top. For most of this rebuild, while being the ra-ra kind of guy I am while games are in progress, I've also been very honest that I rarely felt the team was as close as others did. A few times I let myself get caught up in a good run we made (game 7 against the Cavs in Tatum's rookie year, for example), but far more often than not over the last few years, I've felt we've been overachieving, and have not been surprised when we ran out of road. As high as I am on the potential of the Jays - I absolutely do think they could be a championship 1-2 some day - I'm not so certain of that that I'm ready to lock myself into one path right this moment.

But even aside from all of this, I seem to have a different opinion from most on how easy it is to "just go out and get good players". Quality players who are paid fairly, and aren't head cases, aren't just congregating around waiting to be picked up. They're either on a team that's happy to have them, or they've got a lot of suitors. If you want them, you have to give up something their team wants, and more of that something than anyone else is willing to. There are a lot of occasions over the last several years where we could have traded a first for a PJ Tucker, and not won a title anyway, and now been several firsts in debt. I guess some think we should have, and would now have a title to show for it. I don't.

[KGboss]

Fire brad

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[zoyathedestroya]

I wish I knew how to place Cmon Do Something stick man on the seat beside Danny then poke him from there.