KNICKS - Houston PG

[vallen]

It's not a lot of "If's" it's a lot of truth. What's it matter how many seasons GSW did it when the fact is they did it and they did it through the draft. A "If" would be that we don't know if they would of won another without KD or not. I would lean towards a yes that they would of. Adding KD just made it an easier path for them.

I never said any of those teams won a championship besides GSW, i was simply saying that those are all good teams that have built through the draft. Only one team wins the championship every year.

We have a few good young players and only a few and to trade for a star or super star level player we'll need a hell of a lot more than a few good young players. You think a super star will want to come play with K.Knox, Frank and whatever other bench type players we have after we trade Randle, RJ, Obi and draft picks to get him here?

We don't have to re-sign every young player we have. Right now we have Mitch, RJ, Obi, IQ and Randle that are really worth keeping and then a bunch of bench pieces that can be replaced easily. Adding two more good young pieces in next years draft will do nothing but help whther that's help our future in winning games or if it's to help with more valuable assets to use in a trade.

Sometimes the Pics are more valuable than the players you use them on. Your overrating our ability to draft well. Like when you said "if we drafted him instead of him 2 different times". We dont know if the two pics next year will help or be busters. We could just as easily end up with a couple Franks or Knox's when those pics could have lead to something more stable in a trade. And you exaggerate the amount we have to trade in order to get another solid piece. We are competitive night in and night out. We dont need to sell the whole store to get what we need. Obi, Knox and some pics are a good starting point for a player wanting out of a crappy situation.

Randle, Mitch, Quick, RJ dont have to go anywhere.

I can't overrate our ability to draft well cause we have a whole new team in our front office that does our drafting and after their first draft together with Obi and getting IQ at #25 i'm thinking/hoping our drafting will be much better then we're used to, and then handing these players we draft to Thibs and his coaching staff also makes me feel better about how these kids will get developed.

Yeah if you want us to trade for a V.Oladipo level player then Obi, Knox and some pics might work but not to get a star or super star type player. That package would get the phone hung up on us for the type of player that would give us a chance to make some noise in the playoffs.

What generational player is available ? And I am beginning to think Dolan changes GM's every other year just so the fans can say this FO is the one. The draft is a crap shoot and they call it a lottery for a reason. The chances are slim.

[Besart19]

it's not gonna happen, but what are lavine's overall 4th quarter and last 2 minutes stats ? because that's when you really need "stars".

Next season, Dad Melo will have that role!

Quickley
Kawhi
Carmelo
Randle
Mitch

Will close out games

[newyorker4ever]

I don't think making the playoffs will move the needle as much as you think it might. The fundamental shift in the organization has already occurred and is well known now throughout the league as we have played almost .500 and beaten good teams multiple times. Every FA knows Thibs has solidified us as a top defensive franchise which means we will be competitive. And if not making the playoffs results in higher draft picks that will do way more to encourage a top FA to come than a first round exit. It's culture and talent that attracts them to an already competitive team which we are whether we make the playoffs or not. Rose is connected and he has built a truly great staff. It's a new organization. That's what matters to a FA.

I think star players would be more attracted to us making the playoffs along with a strong core of IQ, Lavine, Randle, Mitch versus missing the playoffs and just draft picks imo.

I think your argument is fair though. I just rather go for Lavine now. But waiting for him isn’t a bad idea either.

Actually, if we got Lavine what are we paying him on his new deal? $35M a year? And then Randle?

You can see where that would be headed if you kept both. You wouldn't have any cap left to sign another big free agent.

I think the reason you sign Lavine is not to attract anyone, but because you really think he is going to be your # 1 option.

IMO it is better to decide if Lavine is a # 1 option or not and then advocate for that. Making the franchise a better attraction is not really a viable reason if the cap is already locked in to those two.

I think answering the question of if Lavine is a #1 or not is a pretty easy no.

[newyorker4ever]

Actually, if we got Lavine what are we paying him on his new deal? $35M a year? And then Randle?

You can see where that would be headed if you kept both. You wouldn't have any cap left to sign another big free agent.

I think the reason you sign Lavine is not to attract anyone, but because you really think he is going to be your # 1 option.

IMO it is better to decide if Lavine is a # 1 option or not and then advocate for that. Making the franchise a better attraction is not really a viable reason if the cap is already locked in to those two.

I don't think we'd max Randle. Should be able to afford Lavine and Randle with another good free agent. But I am no cap expert so I can be off.

I think Lavine can def be a #1 option. I mean he's averaging 28 PPG on insane effiency. The bigger question surrounding him is his defense, which I think would be a lot better under Thibs imo.

We don't know what his efficiency will be if Thibs makes him play defense and he is expending energy on both ends of the floor. Julius is doing it on both ends so until Lavine can show that he can play boths with efficiency too then Randle is the better player.

His PPG would probably be lower here due to point distribution as well.

Randle isn't a good defensive player. He might be showing more effort this year under Thibs but he's still not a good defensive player. I saw him not even try multiple times in the Houston game. Don't get me wrong cause he's obviously playing better this year, just not that much on defense.

[Clyde_Style]

I think star players would be more attracted to us making the playoffs along with a strong core of IQ, Lavine, Randle, Mitch versus missing the playoffs and just draft picks imo.

I think your argument is fair though. I just rather go for Lavine now. But waiting for him isn’t a bad idea either.

Actually, if we got Lavine what are we paying him on his new deal? $35M a year? And then Randle?

You can see where that would be headed if you kept both. You wouldn't have any cap left to sign another big free agent.

I think the reason you sign Lavine is not to attract anyone, but because you really think he is going to be your # 1 option.

IMO it is better to decide if Lavine is a # 1 option or not and then advocate for that. Making the franchise a better attraction is not really a viable reason if the cap is already locked in to those two.

I think answering the question of if Lavine is a #1 or not is a pretty easy no.

Then I'd be very wary of throwing lots of assets into a deal for him, because he's also going to eat up a lot of cap space.

Randle at present is pretty much a two-way player so I think his value is higher. We can retain him and save bank for someone else when the time is right.

[Clyde_Style]

I don't think we'd max Randle. Should be able to afford Lavine and Randle with another good free agent. But I am no cap expert so I can be off.

I think Lavine can def be a #1 option. I mean he's averaging 28 PPG on insane effiency. The bigger question surrounding him is his defense, which I think would be a lot better under Thibs imo.

We don't know what his efficiency will be if Thibs makes him play defense and he is expending energy on both ends of the floor. Julius is doing it on both ends so until Lavine can show that he can play boths with efficiency too then Randle is the better player.

His PPG would probably be lower here due to point distribution as well.

Randle isn't a good defensive player. He might be showing more effort this year under Thibs but he's still not a good defensive player. I saw him not even try multiple times in the Houston game. Don't get me wrong cause he's obviously playing better this year, just not that much on defense.

He is giving effort most of the time and we're a top ranked defense already. Randle has had some very good defensive performances in the clutch this year. For a guy putting up all-star numbers he is a better defender than many all-stars.

[Clyde_Style]

it's not gonna happen, but what are lavine's overall 4th quarter and last 2 minutes stats ? because that's when you really need "stars".

Next season, Dad Melo will have that role!

Quickley
Kawhi
Carmelo
Randle
Mitch

Will close out games

No

[newyorker4ever]

Sometimes the Pics are more valuable than the players you use them on. Your overrating our ability to draft well. Like when you said "if we drafted him instead of him 2 different times". We dont know if the two pics next year will help or be busters. We could just as easily end up with a couple Franks or Knox's when those pics could have lead to something more stable in a trade. And you exaggerate the amount we have to trade in order to get another solid piece. We are competitive night in and night out. We dont need to sell the whole store to get what we need. Obi, Knox and some pics are a good starting point for a player wanting out of a crappy situation.

Randle, Mitch, Quick, RJ dont have to go anywhere.

I can't overrate our ability to draft well cause we have a whole new team in our front office that does our drafting and after their first draft together with Obi and getting IQ at #25 i'm thinking/hoping our drafting will be much better then we're used to, and then handing these players we draft to Thibs and his coaching staff also makes me feel better about how these kids will get developed.

Yeah if you want us to trade for a V.Oladipo level player then Obi, Knox and some pics might work but not to get a star or super star type player. That package would get the phone hung up on us for the type of player that would give us a chance to make some noise in the playoffs.

What generational player is available ? And I am beginning to think Dolan changes GM's every other year just so the fans can say this FO is the one. The draft is a crap shoot and they call it a lottery for a reason. The chances are slim.

Nobody is saying the draft isn't a crap shoot but that does nothing to change how teams value being as high as you can in the draft cause you have the chance at getting star type players there. That's why we ended up with RJ and the Pels and Memphis ended up with Zion and Ja.

[newyorker4ever]

We don't know what his efficiency will be if Thibs makes him play defense and he is expending energy on both ends of the floor. Julius is doing it on both ends so until Lavine can show that he can play boths with efficiency too then Randle is the better player.

His PPG would probably be lower here due to point distribution as well.

Randle isn't a good defensive player. He might be showing more effort this year under Thibs but he's still not a good defensive player. I saw him not even try multiple times in the Houston game. Don't get me wrong cause he's obviously playing better this year, just not that much on defense.

He is giving effort most of the time and we're a top ranked defense already. Randle has had some very good defensive performances in the clutch this year. For a guy putting up all-star numbers he is a better defender than many all-stars.

Yes he has had some great defensive plays and i'm not trying to make it sound like he hasn't, i'm just saying he's still not a good defensive player. I still see him take a lot of plays off. He's still playing like an all star but he's still a #3 type player on a great team.

[3toheadmelo]

Sixers are better than us, and would beat us with LaVine, not even really debatable.


What free agents? There's nothing this summer or next, Kawhi isn't coming here and he's the only one that moves needle. Trading for LaVine this year would be a bad move and I'd lose all confidence in the front office, because it would be a repeat of what happened with Melo. If we had signed Melo, could have gotten more with those same players we used to trade for him, the same would happen with LaVine except he's nowhere near as good.

It is debatable. Besides Embiid, who is really that good on the Sixers? Ben gets exposed in the playoffs every single year. So it’s just Embiid and Tobias Harris. Yeah I’ll take my chances.

Wasn’t Melo an expiring? Lavine isnt. We’d have 1.5 years with him before resigning him.

There are some good free agents such as Jrue Holiday, Trent Jr, THT, Norman Powell, etc.

Come on man, the Sixers have playoff experience, there isn't a single player in your theoretical lineup that has played in them and they'd have the best player in the series by a wide margin.

You named 4 free agents, 3 of them play the same exact position as LaVine without the ability to really play up or down a position

Sixers aint schit to me bro lol

Jrue can play the 1/2
THT/Powell can play the 2/3

[Clyde_Style]

Randle isn't a good defensive player. He might be showing more effort this year under Thibs but he's still not a good defensive player. I saw him not even try multiple times in the Houston game. Don't get me wrong cause he's obviously playing better this year, just not that much on defense.

He is giving effort most of the time and we're a top ranked defense already. Randle has had some very good defensive performances in the clutch this year. For a guy putting up all-star numbers he is a better defender than many all-stars.

Yes he has had some great defensive plays and i'm not trying to make it sound like he hasn't, i'm just saying he's still not a good defensive player. I still see him take a lot of plays off. He's still playing like an all star but he's still a #3 type player on a great team.

You can still win championships with three # 3's taking turns as # 1's if you have a well constructed roster and a great coach(ing staff).

Naturally, I prefer a superstar # 1, but there is no guarantee that will happen. This is a star league, but there are very few true superstars in it.

[newyorker4ever]

He is giving effort most of the time and we're a top ranked defense already. Randle has had some very good defensive performances in the clutch this year. For a guy putting up all-star numbers he is a better defender than many all-stars.

Yes he has had some great defensive plays and i'm not trying to make it sound like he hasn't, i'm just saying he's still not a good defensive player. I still see him take a lot of plays off. He's still playing like an all star but he's still a #3 type player on a great team.

You can still win championships with three # 3's taking turns as # 1's if you have a well constructed roster and a great coach(ing staff).

Naturally, I prefer a superstar # 1, but there is no guarantee that will happen. This is a star league, but there are very few true superstars in it.

I don't think any team with 3 #3's is gonna be able to beat all of these super star teams out there like either LA team or Brooklyn (i hate saying that) or any other team that has two #1 players with a bunch of #3's around them.

[Nbabrothers]

Let me say this, I hope this organization doesn't put Quickley in a box as a bench player long-term.

You can definitely make the argument Quickley deserved to start earlier this year. Since the Rose trade, he now has not one but two nominal PGs playing ahead of him as Rose entered the game for Payton before him.

i don't want to put those expectations on IQ but he reminds me a little of Billups and CJ. The jumpshot, the ability to draw fouls and the quick first step are a deadly combination. Now it's on the Knicks to develop his playmaking skills.

I like that he's scoring but I don't like that they seem to have put him being a playmaker on the back burner. I would rather he struggle and learn how to run an offense, than him to just be boxed into the Lou Williams role. We're still going to need a PG if that's the plan, Rose is too old to be part of any real long term plans.

Rose is showing the world that he still has some of his mvp skills. Have you seen how fast he is? When he’s in the second unit becomes a fast breaking team.
I’m loving it!
And he’s mentoring both Quickley and Obi. With his knowledge these rookies will mature and learn the ropes of the big leagues.