Official Anthony Edwards Thread

[jpatrick]

I think it’s okay to highlight the good with Edwards along with being cautious. He’s been better than I thought. He appears to be coachable and plays hard, which were question marks from his UGA days. Although I don’t think he has incredible vision like a lot of perimeter stars, he is a willing passer. I would take him second, behind Ball, in a redraft and it’s close between those two.

But let’s not act like he is a sure fire superstar. They key for him is whether his scoring is going to affect wins and loses. Efficiency. Right now he’s shooting 39% from the field and 32% from three. He doesn’t instinctively make others better and is a huge ball stopper. That’s not great for team. He’s also 19 and will improve in those areas. The question is how much.

[Calinks]

Often times you can see a rookie is going to be a star right away. They show something that just ticks the right boxes. I can't say I see that with Ant yet. There are a lot of question marks still. With KAT knew RIGHT away, he was different. Even with Zach I saw something that I didn't see in Wiggins. You kind of just know.

Ant can go either way for me right now, I don't really see a superstar, he has to make some big strides in a couple of areas (BBIQ, ball handling, stroke, finishing) and those are hard areas to grow. You kind of have those skills or not at this point and they can be developed but I don't know if they can be developed into elite or very good status from where he is right now.

[FinnTheHuman]

Other than a couple of predictable hero ball moments... he was very impressive. Each game does seem to show more and more promise.

Again... when he's willing to pass... I'm impressed. He made a crosscourt Harden-esque pass in the 4th quarter that was incredible.

He's always been willing to pass, please. I'm glad you're changing your tune about Ant, but stop with this narrative, his only mistake when it comes to passing was that he played with some of the least talented players in the league to start the year. One does not learn how to pass in a couple of months, he's always been a natural, it was evident to those who were paying attention.

But man, I'm so glad we picked him, literally the franchise-saving move right there. If we picked Ball or Wiseman, we'd have no go-to perimeter scorer. Beasley is nice, but doesn't have that overwhelming physical presence and transcendent athleticism that Edwards does. The left hand is the cherry on top. He finished over Marc Gasol with contact plus Marc being completely vertical with that lefty, that's just absurd.

Edwards, KAT, Beasley are the core. Vando and Jaden are nice to keep I guess, but it's not a must. The rest can be flipped for the better fitting assets like a starting power forward.

I was paying attention when Edwards took 40 shots over a two-game stretch... in only 56 minutes... with only two assists.

I was paying attention when Edwards went through a 7 game stretch where he shot 20 - 83 fg (24.1% fg) with a grand total of 7 assists... and was arguably the worst rotation player in the NBA.

Look, every Timberwolves fan should be excited by Edwards' progress since he became a starter. But that doesn't mean you get to ignore just how awful he started. I know I never had the narrative that Edwards was going to stay a bad player...

It's ok to mention when players are playing poorly... or when they're playing well...

Context context context. What I'm saying is that you were putting his stats into a narrative that I was convinced wasn't true. Back then, you were saying his low assist numbers had to do with him being a black hole, a non-willing passer who just wants to get his, and I replied by claiming his teammates were bricking the open shots created by his good passes, the passes you could've seen but chose to ignore or forget because they're not on the stat sheet. He was playing with 4 awful to average shooters most of his minutes at the time.

And what sounds like the truth now that he's playing with starters who can shoot? He's dishing a solid number of assists and looking like anything but a black hole. So yeah, what I'm saying is that it's not the problem that you were saying he was bad, the problem is you were wrong about what he was bad at.

You were also saying he had poor shot selection. I said he couldn't find good shots on that awful bench units and therefor chose to take bad shots instead of dumping the ball to the less talented guys to take bad shots. And now that he's playing with the starters, his efficiency sky-rocketed. So yeah, that's where you also ignored the fact that he was playing on a lineup that isn't an NBA level lineup. A guy's performance greatly depends on who's on the floor with him, and you were just dumping it all on him like basketball is an individual sport, despite the eye test not agreeing with the stat sheet you keep on quoting.

But yeah, I hope Ant is gonna get more respect when he ends up playing a poor game from now on, because this team often makes it harder to have a good game than your average NBA team does.

[TheZachAttack]

Often times you can see a rookie is going to be a star right away. They show something that just ticks the right boxes. I can't say I see that with Ant yet. There are a lot of question marks still. With KAT knew RIGHT away, he was different. Even with Zach I saw something that I didn't see in Wiggins. You kind of just know.

Ant can go either way for me right now, I don't really see a superstar, he has to make some big strides in a couple of areas (BBIQ, ball handling, stroke, finishing) and those are hard areas to grow. You kind of have those skills or not at this point and they can be developed but I don't know if they can be developed into elite or very good status from where he is right now.

I mean to me Edwards feels a lot like Zach. I think that's a little bit of hindsight bias or at least leaning into the same reasons that you feel that Ant could be really good and forgetting the questions about consistent execution, defense, BBIQ, etc. That said, Zach was always a better shooter. I thought that Zach was at least going to be what Beasley is now and his ceiling is something close to what he's become also off the dribble as a primary rather than tertiary player.

[AbeVigodaLive]

He's always been willing to pass, please. I'm glad you're changing your tune about Ant, but stop with this narrative, his only mistake when it comes to passing was that he played with some of the least talented players in the league to start the year. One does not learn how to pass in a couple of months, he's always been a natural, it was evident to those who were paying attention.

But man, I'm so glad we picked him, literally the franchise-saving move right there. If we picked Ball or Wiseman, we'd have no go-to perimeter scorer. Beasley is nice, but doesn't have that overwhelming physical presence and transcendent athleticism that Edwards does. The left hand is the cherry on top. He finished over Marc Gasol with contact plus Marc being completely vertical with that lefty, that's just absurd.

Edwards, KAT, Beasley are the core. Vando and Jaden are nice to keep I guess, but it's not a must. The rest can be flipped for the better fitting assets like a starting power forward.

I was paying attention when Edwards took 40 shots over a two-game stretch... in only 56 minutes... with only two assists.

I was paying attention when Edwards went through a 7 game stretch where he shot 20 - 83 fg (24.1% fg) with a grand total of 7 assists... and was arguably the worst rotation player in the NBA.

Look, every Timberwolves fan should be excited by Edwards' progress since he became a starter. But that doesn't mean you get to ignore just how awful he started. I know I never had the narrative that Edwards was going to stay a bad player...

It's ok to mention when players are playing poorly... or when they're playing well...

Context context context. What I'm saying is that you were putting his stats into a narrative that I was convinced wasn't true. Back then, you were saying his low assist numbers had to do with him being a black hole, a non-willing passer who just wants to get his, and I replied by claiming his teammates were bricking the open shots created by his good passes, the passes you could've seen but chose to ignore or forget because they're not on the stat sheet. He was playing with 4 awful to average shooters most of his minutes at the time.

And what sounds like the truth now that he's playing with starters who can shoot? He's dishing a solid number of assists and looking like anything but a black hole. So yeah, what I'm saying is that it's not the problem that you were saying he was bad, the problem is you were wrong about what he was bad at.

You were also saying he had poor shot selection. I said he couldn't find good shots on that awful bench units and therefor chose to take bad shots instead of dumping the ball to the less talented guys to take bad shots. And now that he's playing with the starters, his efficiency sky-rocketed. So yeah, that's where you also ignored the fact that he was playing on a lineup that isn't an NBA level lineup. A guy's performance greatly depends on who's on the floor with him, and you were just dumping it all on him like basketball is an individual sport, despite the eye test not agreeing with the stat sheet you keep on quoting.

But yeah, I hope Ant is gonna get more respect when he ends up playing a poor game from now on, because this team often makes it harder to have a good game than your average NBA team does.

In the annals of woeful Timberwolves lore... there has been a great number of bad basketball players. There's been a lot of bad basketball played. Sometimes, it's a fine line... a chicken/egg thing.

A lot of it has been from guys who simply weren't very skilled. Sometimes, it's been from skilled players who were way behind opponents in knowing the intricacies of the game. They didn't know "how to play." Throughout that woeful history, we as fans have seen one promising player after another be granted the infamous "Promise of Hope" crown. We've seen fewer cases of those guys being held accountable, which may have manifested in some of them never realizing that promise.

Blaming teammates for a rookie taking 40 shots in 56 minutes is an interesting and patient take after what this organization has put its fans through. There is a good/smart way to play NBA basketball. There is a bad way. Let's say your premise that Edwards was making a ton of great passes and they were simply leading to missed shots is true... Edwards must have had one helluva high usage rate during that span if he found time to still get that many shots up. Ignoring open teammates because they suck is a dangerous, slippery slope for a 19 year old.

Considering that Edwards was one of the league's most inefficient players at the time... it actively helped torpedo yet another Wolves campaign. Letting an unproven rookie carry that ridiculous of a usage rate is bad basketball from an organization standpoint if they're trying to win. After what this organization has put us through already... I'd say not caring about wins or losses YET AGAIN is an insult to many fans. But maybe that's a different issue.



[Note: Kudos to Edwards' growth, especially of late as a starter. More efficient. More impactful. But that doesn't mean we simply absolve him of bad play earlier. Again... there's nothing wrong with holding players accountable for good or bad performances. Personally, I think a lack of accountability has been a primary reason for the failure of multiple Wolves re-re-re-rebuilds.]

[Dewey]

LeBoy ... 39.6 mpg ... 20.9 ppg ... 18.9 fga ... 41.7% fg ... 29% 3pt ... 75.4% ft ... 5.5 rebounds ... 5.9 assists
ANT ..... 26.7 mpg ... 14.1 ppg ... 14.1 fga ... 39.1% fg ... 32.7 3pt ... 80.0% ft ... 3.6 rebounds ... 2.3 assists

LeBoy ... .53 pts/minute ... 0.139 TRB/min ... 0.149 asst/min ... ORTG 101 ... DRTG 103
ANT ..... .53 pts/minute ... 0.135 TRB/min ... 0.090 asst/min ... ORTG 106 ... DRTG 112

LeBoy ... one of the most heralded players to ever be taken #1 in the draft ... manna from heaven.
ANT ..... questionable #1 pick in what was considered a poor draft

Interesting to compare rookie seasons ... LeBoy delivered a more rebounded game and brought 6'9" presence as a rookie, but looking ahead, it's all about where can ANT take his game from here. Lots of improvements to make. ANT had a partial year of college on a poor team, but no legit NBA training camp, so with a full off-season, this ya can only hope he makes strides year to year...

[Calinks]

Often times you can see a rookie is going to be a star right away. They show something that just ticks the right boxes. I can't say I see that with Ant yet. There are a lot of question marks still. With KAT knew RIGHT away, he was different. Even with Zach I saw something that I didn't see in Wiggins. You kind of just know.

Ant can go either way for me right now, I don't really see a superstar, he has to make some big strides in a couple of areas (BBIQ, ball handling, stroke, finishing) and those are hard areas to grow. You kind of have those skills or not at this point and they can be developed but I don't know if they can be developed into elite or very good status from where he is right now.

I mean to me Edwards feels a lot like Zach. I think that's a little bit of hindsight bias or at least leaning into the same reasons that you feel that Ant could be really good and forgetting the questions about consistent execution, defense, BBIQ, etc. That said, Zach was always a better shooter. I thought that Zach was at least going to be what Beasley is now and his ceiling is something close to what he's become also off the dribble as a primary rather than tertiary player.

FAir points, I'm not going to declare either way for Ant, I just know I'm not sold, I love what he has been doing but it will probably take a lot for me to comfortable feel like he will be a star-level player.

[Calinks]

LeBoy ... 39.6 mpg ... 20.9 ppg ... 18.9 fga ... 41.7% fg ... 29% 3pt ... 75.4% ft ... 5.5 rebounds ... 5.9 assists
ANT ..... 26.7 mpg ... 14.1 ppg ... 14.1 fga ... 39.1% fg ... 32.7 3pt ... 80.0% ft ... 3.6 rebounds ... 2.3 assists

LeBoy ... .53 pts/minute ... 0.139 TRB/min ... 0.149 asst/min ... ORTG 101 ... DRTG 103
ANT ..... .53 pts/minute ... 0.135 TRB/min ... 0.090 asst/min ... ORTG 106 ... DRTG 112

LeBoy ... one of the most heralded players to ever be taken #1 in the draft ... manna from heaven.
ANT ..... questionable #1 pick in what was considered a poor draft

Interesting to compare rookie seasons ... LeBoy delivered a more rebounded game and brought 6'9" presence as a rookie, but looking ahead, it's all about where can ANT take his game from here. Lots of improvements to make. ANT had a partial year of college on a poor team, but no legit NBA training camp, so with a full off-season, this ya can only hope he makes strides year to year...

Can you pull up some stuff about Edwards vs Wiggins as a rookie. I believe that early on they had some similar scary stats, Wiggins was a guy who was getting 20ish points per game but stat nerds always said his advanced metrics were terrible, curious to see how Ant stacks up to that right now.

[AbeVigodaLive]

LeBoy ... 39.6 mpg ... 20.9 ppg ... 18.9 fga ... 41.7% fg ... 29% 3pt ... 75.4% ft ... 5.5 rebounds ... 5.9 assists
ANT ..... 26.7 mpg ... 14.1 ppg ... 14.1 fga ... 39.1% fg ... 32.7 3pt ... 80.0% ft ... 3.6 rebounds ... 2.3 assists

LeBoy ... .53 pts/minute ... 0.139 TRB/min ... 0.149 asst/min ... ORTG 101 ... DRTG 103
ANT ..... .53 pts/minute ... 0.135 TRB/min ... 0.090 asst/min ... ORTG 106 ... DRTG 112

LeBoy ... one of the most heralded players to ever be taken #1 in the draft ... manna from heaven.
ANT ..... questionable #1 pick in what was considered a poor draft

Interesting to compare rookie seasons ... LeBoy delivered a more rebounded game and brought 6'9" presence as a rookie, but looking ahead, it's all about where can ANT take his game from here. Lots of improvements to make. ANT had a partial year of college on a poor team, but no legit NBA training camp, so with a full off-season, this ya can only hope he makes strides year to year...

Yeah. We won't really know for years. It takes a special something for players to become elite... beyond moments or even games of brilliance and promise.

Edwards has shown signs of significant growth already. Personally, that's all I can ask for. If it continues, we'll all probably be pretty happy. If it plateaus along the way, whether this season or next or next or... whenever, we'll temper our expectations accordingly as we've done many times with other players.

But the last couple of weeks give us hope. A young player showing improvement... whether you use the eye test or check the stats... it's significant. And it's actually pretty cool.

[Dewey]

LeBoy ... 39.6 mpg ... 20.9 ppg ... 18.9 fga ... 41.7% fg ... 29% 3pt ... 75.4% ft ... 5.5 rebounds ... 5.9 assists
ANT ..... 26.7 mpg ... 14.1 ppg ... 14.1 fga ... 39.1% fg ... 32.7 3pt ... 80.0% ft ... 3.6 rebounds ... 2.3 assists
Wigg .... 36.2 mph ... 16.9 ppg ... 13.9 fga ... 43.7% fg ... 31% 3pt ... 76.0% ft ... 4.6 rebounds ... 2.2 assists

LeBoy ... .53 pts/minute ... 0.139 TRB/min ... 0.149 asst/min ... ORTG 101 ... DRTG 103
ANT ..... .53 pts/minute ... 0.135 TRB/min ... 0.090 asst/min ... ORTG 106 ... DRTG 112
Wigg .... .47 pts/minute ... 0.130 TRB/min ... 0.060 asst/min ... ORTG 101 ... DRTG 111

LeBoy ... one of the most heralded players to ever be taken #1 in the draft ... manna from heaven.
ANT ..... questionable #1 pick in what was considered a poor draft
Wigg .... unanimous #1 pick as all-around player w/potential to be a high defensive impact

Interesting to compare rookie seasons ... LeBoy delivered a more rebounded game and brought 6'9" presence as a rookie, but looking ahead, it's all about where can ANT take his game from here. Lots of improvements to make. ANT had a partial year of college on a poor team, but no legit NBA training camp, so with a full off-season, this ya can only hope he makes strides year to year...

Can you pull up some stuff about Edwards vs Wiggins as a rookie. I believe that early on they had some similar scary stats, Wiggins was a guy who was getting 20ish points per game but stat nerds always said his advanced metrics were terrible, curious to see how Ant stacks up to that right now.

edited... generally most veterans have had positive comments on ANT and his attitude. He clearly don't see everything yet on the court in terms of "basketball decisions", but he is clearly capable skill-wise to make improvements with experience. I'm not a big ststa guy but I was curious where he stacks up. Again, his attitude has been one of his positive attributes and I'll take it. I just hope he is committed to improve.

[Norseman79]

Let's also remember the first 10 games or so of the season would have been preseason type of games for a rookie during a regular year. Those comparing Edwards to Ball need to remember one spent time playing professionally in Europe and was more ready to step into the NBA as a day 1 player, and finally that one plays in a pretty defined offensive system while the other plays for Ryan Saunders.

[Dewey]

Let's also remember the first 10 games or so of the season would have been preseason type of games for a rookie during a regular year. Those comparing Edwards to Ball need to remember one spent time playing professionally in Europe and was more ready to step into the NBA as a day 1 player, and finally that one plays in a pretty defined offensive system while the other plays for Ryan Saunders.

we need a bus emoji running over the coach ... hahaha

[Norseman79]

Let's also remember the first 10 games or so of the season would have been preseason type of games for a rookie during a regular year. Those comparing Edwards to Ball need to remember one spent time playing professionally in Europe and was more ready to step into the NBA as a day 1 player, and finally that one plays in a pretty defined offensive system while the other plays for Ryan Saunders.

we need a bus emoji running over the coach ... hahaha

Haha YES!!... I am not solely blaming Ryan, but it does have an impact on Edwards game. How would his usage, shot chart, and efficiency change is placed in a disciplined system that looked at maximizing his strengths, not simply playing iso ball.

[Calinks]

LeBoy ... 39.6 mpg ... 20.9 ppg ... 18.9 fga ... 41.7% fg ... 29% 3pt ... 75.4% ft ... 5.5 rebounds ... 5.9 assists
ANT ..... 26.7 mpg ... 14.1 ppg ... 14.1 fga ... 39.1% fg ... 32.7 3pt ... 80.0% ft ... 3.6 rebounds ... 2.3 assists
Wigg .... 36.2 mph ... 16.9 ppg ... 13.9 fga ... 43.7% fg ... 31% 3pt ... 76.0% ft ... 4.6 rebounds ... 2.2 assists

LeBoy ... .53 pts/minute ... 0.139 TRB/min ... 0.149 asst/min ... ORTG 101 ... DRTG 103
ANT ..... .53 pts/minute ... 0.135 TRB/min ... 0.090 asst/min ... ORTG 106 ... DRTG 112
Wigg .... .47 pts/minute ... 0.130 TRB/min ... 0.060 asst/min ... ORTG 101 ... DRTG 111

LeBoy ... one of the most heralded players to ever be taken #1 in the draft ... manna from heaven.
ANT ..... questionable #1 pick in what was considered a poor draft
Wigg .... unanimous #1 pick as all-around player w/potential to be a high defensive impact

Interesting to compare rookie seasons ... LeBoy delivered a more rebounded game and brought 6'9" presence as a rookie, but looking ahead, it's all about where can ANT take his game from here. Lots of improvements to make. ANT had a partial year of college on a poor team, but no legit NBA training camp, so with a full off-season, this ya can only hope he makes strides year to year...

Can you pull up some stuff about Edwards vs Wiggins as a rookie. I believe that early on they had some similar scary stats, Wiggins was a guy who was getting 20ish points per game but stat nerds always said his advanced metrics were terrible, curious to see how Ant stacks up to that right now.

edited... generally most veterans have had positive comments on ANT and his attitude. He clearly don't see everything yet on the court in terms of "basketball decisions", but he is clearly capable skill-wise to make improvements with experience. I'm not a big ststa guy but I was curious where he stacks up. Again, his attitude has been one of his positive attributes and I'll take it. I just hope he is committed to improve.

thanks, yea its going to be important for Edwards to fill the stat sheet in other areas too. Like I really appreciate what Beasley has been doing with rebounds. I want Edwards to be around 4-5 a game which is tough but doable.

[Klomp]

Read on Twitter

[Worm Guts]

Ant's PER is 11.2, Wiggins was 13.9 as a rookie, Lebron was 18.3. While there are definitely better measures to how effective a player is, I would like to see Ant at 14.0 or above by the end of the year. Not a lot of All Star caliber wings started off lower than Wiggins, especially high picks who were given a lot of opportunity.

[Klomp]

Ant's PER is 11.2, Wiggins was 13.9 as a rookie, Lebron was 18.3. While there are definitely better measures to how effective a player is, I would like to see Ant at 14.0 or above by the end of the year. Not a lot of All Star caliber wings started off lower than Wiggins, especially high picks who were given a lot of opportunity.

Not that it excuses everything, but I'd guess Wiggins played about 70% of his minutes with Towns while Edwards is maybe around 10%. As we're seeing right now, it's making a big difference for Edwards. I think we'll continue to see that number go up.

[Worm Guts]

Ant's PER is 11.2, Wiggins was 13.9 as a rookie, Lebron was 18.3. While there are definitely better measures to how effective a player is, I would like to see Ant at 14.0 or above by the end of the year. Not a lot of All Star caliber wings started off lower than Wiggins, especially high picks who were given a lot of opportunity.

Not that it excuses everything, but I'd guess Wiggins played about 70% of his minutes with Towns while Edwards is maybe around 10%. As we're seeing right now, it's making a big difference for Edwards. I think we'll continue to see that number go up.

Towns wasn't in the league when Wiggins was rookie.

[Klomp]

Ant's PER is 11.2, Wiggins was 13.9 as a rookie, Lebron was 18.3. While there are definitely better measures to how effective a player is, I would like to see Ant at 14.0 or above by the end of the year. Not a lot of All Star caliber wings started off lower than Wiggins, especially high picks who were given a lot of opportunity.

Not that it excuses everything, but I'd guess Wiggins played about 70% of his minutes with Towns while Edwards is maybe around 10%. As we're seeing right now, it's making a big difference for Edwards. I think we'll continue to see that number go up.

Towns wasn't in the league when Wiggins was rookie.

Ah crap, I was the other way around on the bit....

[FinnTheHuman]

Ant's PER is 11.2, Wiggins was 13.9 as a rookie, Lebron was 18.3. While there are definitely better measures to how effective a player is, I would like to see Ant at 14.0 or above by the end of the year. Not a lot of All Star caliber wings started off lower than Wiggins, especially high picks who were given a lot of opportunity.

Not that it excuses everything, but I'd guess Wiggins played about 70% of his minutes with Towns while Edwards is maybe around 10%. As we're seeing right now, it's making a big difference for Edwards. I think we'll continue to see that number go up.

You made a mistake of thinking Wiggins played his rookie season with Towns, but you are right in the sense that Wiggins was put in a better situation than Edwards. Not that Wiggy was in a great situation, but he had a lot of vets on his team, he had a full pre-season, he had a defined high usage role on a team that didn't want to try winning etc.

On the other hand, Edwards was put into a disastrously bad bench unit without a defined role, no offensive sets, with Okogie, Culver and Beasley as guys playing his position and even Russel playing some SG, and then you look at the idea that we should be winning because of the GSW pick and Towns potentially getting tired of losing. A very difficult situation to be put in, especially with no pre-season, being 19 years and a couple of months old at the time...

And forget the PER and all the stats, just use your eyes, Edwards is simply an insanely talented basketball player, everything he does looks fluid and in sync, he finishes with contact, he has a better off-hand finish than Wiggins has with his main hand, he has a much smoother jumper, he knows how to use his athleticism unlike Wiggins, his passing ability is miles ahead of anything Wiggins showed, he has no glaring weakness like Wiggy's handle was etc. He also has character, he literally managed to pull the most depression-prone guy in Ricky "Aleksey, be happy, change your face" Rubio out of the dumps. Wiggy's mindset was literally "What's the video game I'm gonna play tonight in my hotel room?", zero leadership qualities, zero registered cases of him helping his teammate overcome an obstacle or improve at anything.

Idk guys, hop onto the hype-train, I think there's just no other option, you'll have more net excitement about a very legit young player than if you start getting hyped later when it becomes clear to everybody. Stop comparing him to anybody, stop evoking the Wiggins memories because the two of them don't belong in the same sentence, just start posting short videos of him doing something really advanced in any of the games, because he does so much of that and we should be excited about it, start talking about how his qualities are gonna make him a star, just go and copy the approach Raps or Knicks realgm posters' approach, because lord knows they are always super excited about prospects who are not in the ballpark of Edwards.