2020-21 NBA Season Discussion

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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#1161 » by MyUniBroDavis » Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:47 am

bondom34 wrote:See, like I'm normally very much pro player, I just don't know what's expected. Like, getting rid of trades? Or no free agency? Or nobody can have a negative judgement on a player? The whole thing is just confusing.

Unless the idea is that nobody can be judged, and fans aren't to have opinions on it, which then drives down media attention and lowers contract numbers. I just can't really see what he wants in this situation.

Edit: And players criticized Durant, which makes it even weirder.

Also...I'm starting to buy the Nets and hate it. And can see them winning out til the break at this point facing both LA teams with a star out.


I just more in a general sense, obv Durant getting criticized is normal and we all did it and will continue to do it in similar situations but I get that it’s kind of messed up if you really think about it, but that’s kind of what you sign up for
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#1162 » by bondom34 » Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:50 am

MyUniBroDavis wrote:
bondom34 wrote:See, like I'm normally very much pro player, I just don't know what's expected. Like, getting rid of trades? Or no free agency? Or nobody can have a negative judgement on a player? The whole thing is just confusing.

Unless the idea is that nobody can be judged, and fans aren't to have opinions on it, which then drives down media attention and lowers contract numbers. I just can't really see what he wants in this situation.

Edit: And players criticized Durant, which makes it even weirder.

Also...I'm starting to buy the Nets and hate it. And can see them winning out til the break at this point facing both LA teams with a star out.


I just more in a general sense, obv Durant getting criticized is normal and we all did it and will continue to do it in similar situations but I get that it’s kind of messed up if you really think about it, but that’s kind of what you sign up for

Yeah, think that's kinda what I mean. Like someone famous who doesn't seem to like they're getting attention. It's not great all the time, but its sorta part of the deal.
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#1163 » by freethedevil » Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:00 am

MyUniBroDavis wrote:
freethedevil wrote:
MyUniBroDavis wrote:Random fun fact I learned today

Tracking data and stuff is seen as more valuable to analytics department of teams than impact data, which teams meet with skepticism

Not in the sense of “we don’t get this stat” or anything because the guy that told me is very big brain, just more so it’s not viewed as all too helpful

I mean, duh?

Front offices aren't interested in ranking superstars for how they played or all-time rankings. 99% of front office decisions revolve around role players whose skill-sets need to fit whatever specfic stuff they're running. The times where a team would have the luxury of being like, huh, we could have this very valuable player or --this-- very valuable player, ae exceedingly rare. Fit is a lot more important than talent or potential for 90% of players in the league.


Most of the newer impact stuff is meant to be more predictive than descriptive right?

I’m not saying I disagree at all with what the guy was saying, lol I don’t think I have the credentials to disagree with the head of lakers analytics lmfao

I mean they can be applied for both, but practcally speaking, "Oh my team is likely to win 59 games" isn't as useful when constructing a team as "Oh what skillsets do I need toa dd to the soup to make it more potent."

The former's cool but the latter is stuff you can actually act on. That being said nba teams still use the all in one's(like the wizards) but it makes sense it takes a backseat to stuff that can tell you what you need to do.
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#1164 » by MyUniBroDavis » Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:30 pm

freethedevil wrote:
MyUniBroDavis wrote:
freethedevil wrote:I mean, duh?

Front offices aren't interested in ranking superstars for how they played or all-time rankings. 99% of front office decisions revolve around role players whose skill-sets need to fit whatever specfic stuff they're running. The times where a team would have the luxury of being like, huh, we could have this very valuable player or --this-- very valuable player, ae exceedingly rare. Fit is a lot more important than talent or potential for 90% of players in the league.


Most of the newer impact stuff is meant to be more predictive than descriptive right?

I’m not saying I disagree at all with what the guy was saying, lol I don’t think I have the credentials to disagree with the head of lakers analytics lmfao

I mean they can be applied for both, but practcally speaking, "Oh my team is likely to win 59 games" isn't as useful when constructing a team as "Oh what skillsets do I need toa dd to the soup to make it more potent."

The former's cool but the latter is stuff you can actually act on. That being said nba teams still use the all in one's(like the wizards) but it makes sense it takes a backseat to stuff that can tell you what you need to do.



I’m not disagreeing with the approach they’re taking lol, I was just saying what the guy said
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#1165 » by limbo » Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:57 pm

Why has the Bucks defense regressed so much this season, lol... They were close to a -8.0 rDRtg last season pre-covid, which was GOATish level for a modern defense, now they are barely above average... They have practically the same roster too, lol, just swapped Bledsoe for Jrue (who is suppose to be an elite defensive guard)...

This has to be one of the most perplexing drops i've ever seen. Did Brook Lopez soul leave his body after getting embarrassed against Miami?
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#1166 » by freethedevil » Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:34 pm

limbo wrote:Why has the Bucks defense regressed so much this season, lol... They were close to a -8.0 rDRtg last season pre-covid, which was GOATish level for a modern defense, now they are barely above average... They have practically the same roster too, lol, just swapped Bledsoe for Jrue (who is suppose to be an elite defensive guard)...

This has to be one of the most perplexing drops i've ever seen. Did Brook Lopez soul leave his body after getting embarrassed against Miami?

League adapted probably. Giannis is about as versatile defensively as it comes. The rest of the bucks? Not so much. Wes matthews was probably a signifcant l on that end, Lopez is more or less useless outside of the 2x2 cubical giannis keeps him in and now the teams are emulating what the heat did offensively(just like how they emulated what the raps did defensively). If giannis's piority was winning, he really should have waited till this offseason to make a decision. He had a potentially kd-to-the-warriors-but-more-susttianable level moves for him with the mavs as a free agency destination for example. I really can't imagine how this team is going to beat the lakers in a series, even if they get past the sixers or the nets or the celtics. This could end up being a kg-timberwolves situation.
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#1167 » by MisterHibachi » Wed Feb 17, 2021 2:57 pm

Jeez, Zion is scoring 27.1 ppg on 70 FG% in his last 8 games. Why does it feel like he's gone under the radar this year, despite being one of the most hyped rookies last year.
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#1168 » by limbo » Wed Feb 17, 2021 3:20 pm

MisterHibachi wrote:Jeez, Zion is scoring 27.1 ppg on 70 FG% in his last 8 games. Why does it feel like he's gone under the radar this year, despite being one of the most hyped rookies last year.


Because he doesn't bring much else to the table outside GOAT-level finishing that has not even stand the test of Playoff basketball yet, and he is terrible defensively.

Still, the Pelicans team construction and bench is terrible, so kudos to Zion for still being able to assert his will on the game despite playing in less than ideal circumstances... That said, i don't know where to put him in the hierarchy of elite offensive players because his impact/style is so atypical...
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#1169 » by ShotCreator » Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:00 pm

freethedevil wrote:
limbo wrote:Why has the Bucks defense regressed so much this season, lol... They were close to a -8.0 rDRtg last season pre-covid, which was GOATish level for a modern defense, now they are barely above average... They have practically the same roster too, lol, just swapped Bledsoe for Jrue (who is suppose to be an elite defensive guard)...

This has to be one of the most perplexing drops i've ever seen. Did Brook Lopez soul leave his body after getting embarrassed against Miami?

League adapted probably. Giannis is about as versatile defensively as it comes. The rest of the bucks? Not so much. Wes matthews was probably a signifcant l on that end, Lopez is more or less useless outside of the 2x2 cubical giannis keeps him in and now the teams are emulating what the heat did offensively(just like how they emulated what the raps did defensively). If giannis's piority was winning, he really should have waited till this offseason to make a decision. He had a potentially kd-to-the-warriors-but-more-susttianable level moves for him with the mavs as a free agency destination for example. I really can't imagine how this team is going to beat the lakers in a series, even if they get past the sixers or the nets or the celtics. This could end up being a kg-timberwolves situation.

Giannis made a comment at the end of the Bubble about how guys couldn’t get the same level of defensive intensity without the crowd.

I tend to believe him, and I think intentionally or not, he was talking about himself too.

Giannis was absolutely fine in the playoffs last year on offense. His defensive impact metrics to a massive hit in the bubble.

And this year RAPTOR has him as damn near neutral.

I don’t think we’ll see a consistent DPOY Giannis until things are more normal again.
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#1170 » by freethedevil » Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:54 pm

ShotCreator wrote:
freethedevil wrote:
limbo wrote:Why has the Bucks defense regressed so much this season, lol... They were close to a -8.0 rDRtg last season pre-covid, which was GOATish level for a modern defense, now they are barely above average... They have practically the same roster too, lol, just swapped Bledsoe for Jrue (who is suppose to be an elite defensive guard)...

This has to be one of the most perplexing drops i've ever seen. Did Brook Lopez soul leave his body after getting embarrassed against Miami?

League adapted probably. Giannis is about as versatile defensively as it comes. The rest of the bucks? Not so much. Wes matthews was probably a signifcant l on that end, Lopez is more or less useless outside of the 2x2 cubical giannis keeps him in and now the teams are emulating what the heat did offensively(just like how they emulated what the raps did defensively). If giannis's piority was winning, he really should have waited till this offseason to make a decision. He had a potentially kd-to-the-warriors-but-more-susttianable level moves for him with the mavs as a free agency destination for example. I really can't imagine how this team is going to beat the lakers in a series, even if they get past the sixers or the nets or the celtics. This could end up being a kg-timberwolves situation.

Giannis made a comment at the end of the Bubble about how guys couldn’t get the same level of defensive intensity without the crowd.

I tend to believe him, and I think intentionally or not, he was talking about himself too.

Giannis was absolutely fine in the playoffs last year on offense. His defensive impact metrics to a massive hit in the bubble.

And this year RAPTOR has him as damn near neutral.

I don’t think we’ll see a consistent DPOY Giannis until things are more normal again.

Raptor is pretty bad at predicting winning and doesn't correlate with apm at all. On tpo of that it was designed by someone who felt other pm stats were dumb since for valuing big men.

Giannis's defense has regressed via impact stuff, but him being near nuetral in raptor is because raptor hates bigs.
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#1171 » by NinjaSheppard » Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:36 pm

limbo wrote:
MisterHibachi wrote:Jeez, Zion is scoring 27.1 ppg on 70 FG% in his last 8 games. Why does it feel like he's gone under the radar this year, despite being one of the most hyped rookies last year.


Because he doesn't bring much else to the table outside GOAT-level finishing that has not even stand the test of Playoff basketball yet, and he is terrible defensively.

Still, the Pelicans team construction and bench is terrible, so kudos to Zion for still being able to assert his will on the game despite playing in less than ideal circumstances... That said, i don't know where to put him in the hierarchy of elite offensive players because his impact/style is so atypical...


This isn't true. He has started taking on a lot more of a ball handling role and is averaging 4.4 assists per game in February. The Pelicans have the number 1 offense in the league this month also so his offensive impact is massive.

His defense is awful but he has played 50 games in his career and a large issue for him is not understanding rotations which should get better with time.

Unreal offensive impact because of finishing and playmaking is insanely impressive this early in his career.
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#1172 » by limbo » Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:30 pm

NinjaSheppard wrote:This isn't true. He has started taking on a lot more of a ball handling role and is averaging 4.4 assists per game in February. The Pelicans have the number 1 offense in the league this month also so his offensive impact is massive.

His defense is awful but he has played 50 games in his career and a large issue for him is not understanding rotations which should get better with time.

Unreal offensive impact because of finishing and playmaking is insanely impressive this early in his career.


4.4 apg on 30% usg? STOP THE PRESSES! We have seen man go beyond the realm of comprehension! At this pace he might even reach the legendary playmaking heights of a Blake Griffin!

But really though, i'm proud of the Tubster. We have a great future ahead of us for sure.
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#1173 » by 70sFan » Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:36 pm

Zion is still a raw player, but his passing game is there to be developed. Don't act like Zion can't pass, he has the feel and with more experience he should be fine.

People rarely want to remember how turnover prone Barkley was at the beginning of his career.
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#1174 » by bondom34 » Thu Feb 18, 2021 4:31 am

Read on Twitter
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#1175 » by MyUniBroDavis » Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:07 am

limbo wrote:
MisterHibachi wrote:Jeez, Zion is scoring 27.1 ppg on 70 FG% in his last 8 games. Why does it feel like he's gone under the radar this year, despite being one of the most hyped rookies last year.


Because he doesn't bring much else to the table outside GOAT-level finishing that has not even stand the test of Playoff basketball yet, and he is terrible defensively.

Still, the Pelicans team construction and bench is terrible, so kudos to Zion for still being able to assert his will on the game despite playing in less than ideal circumstances... That said, i don't know where to put him in the hierarchy of elite offensive players because his impact/style is so atypical...


He’s gotten better on defense, not good or anything but he’s gone from bottom of the league out of place to probably. Closer to neutral than bad.

Since PowerPoint Zions been a thing the pels offense has skyrocketed, 124.5 off rtg over the past 10 games, that’s not all him but most of his points come from drives in isolation (with a center screening the help usually but not always) vs cuts

27ppg on 66% shooting and near 80% from the free throw line in 32 minutes a game as the second option is pretty good for a guy that’s 50 games into his career. The pels being great on offense isn’t all him, but he’s a +5.0 per game in that time and his on off has gotten better, so in a raw sense his impact seems fine, he’s not a ball stopper at all since if an attack isn’t open literally right away they go into a handoff at the wing and run a different action usually with reddick or Ingram, they prolly do this too much actually

What’s probably the biggest development for Zion is that he’s a good ft shooter. The team said he tweaked his form at the start of the year, has shot 76.5% from the line since he missed the game vs the clippers (18 games) over 150 attempts in that span. It’s been trending up too

His line since PowerPoint Zion (ball handler Zion, they said on Twitter it’s since the wizards game late January) is

26.1/5.5/4.4 on 66FG and 77FT, 71TS (technically 44.4% from three on like 1 attempt a game lol) and 2 turnovers in 32 minutes, although this game brings his scoring average to 27 a game I think

The team around him just doesn’t make sense since he’s essentially a drive guy at heart, in a team with bottom tier spacing, so him being able

A lot of the pels doing well is lonzo exploding though

Still though the fact that Zion since he took on a new role, which he’s done for about half his season now, is top 10 in scoring while leading the league in TS% (for reference, it’s nearly the same as currys best month in his unanimous mvp year in raw TS although of course curry hit like 37 a game and was steph friggin curry lol), while not being a ball stopper and being pretty Ok as a passer, is pretty great, esp when you take into account he’s still a player that pretty much can only get to the hole and finish absurdly well on a team with poor shooting, a defensive minded coach, and no stretch 5

The thing with Zion is he’s more raw than pretty much any other top tier prospect in recent memory, in terms of the gap to his ceiling, so the fact he can put up these numbers is impressive
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#1176 » by GSP » Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:15 am

Anyone have Steph and Drays numbers with and without each other from 2015-2021?
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#1177 » by Goudelock » Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:16 am

Draymond misses a game and the Warriors struggle to crack 100 points.

hmmmmmmmmm
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#1178 » by MyUniBroDavis » Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:21 am

70sFan wrote:Zion is still a raw player, but his passing game is there to be developed. Don't act like Zion can't pass, he has the feel and with more experience he should be fine.

People rarely want to remember how turnover prone Barkley was at the beginning of his career.


I wouldn’t call him a bad passer at all esp for a pf, his drive and kick games actually is really good in terms of instinct like you said, and it’s cheesy but he did grow up playing PG and you kind of see a few really high iq passes here and there

He’s not luka or anything as a passer but he’s gonna be a great passer at some point

It’s kinda sad that the latest stretch he’s on is the first time I think he’s looked nearly as good as he was in college lol

On a side note, for all players with more than 2 iso possessions a game, Zion is 4th in effeciency. 2 is a bit arbitrary (he’s at 2.1), but the guys ahead of him, Wiggins/kyrie/durant averaged 2.1/3.6/3.4

Similar story in post ups, although I changed it to 3 or more since he’s at 3.5 (for comparison brons at 3.3). As much as a volume scoring wing that’s elite in the post, not as much as guys like AD or embiid, he’s 3rd in that regard behind embiid and Kawhi.

On ball scoring they are solid at using adams to screen help but the spacing isn’t great


Definately trending up since he was near the bottom of that list like 15 games ago.
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#1179 » by MyUniBroDavis » Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:25 am

Goudelock wrote:Draymond misses a game and the Warriors struggle to crack 100 points.

hmmmmmmmmm


Curry is 3/16 from three lol that’s probably a big part of it
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#1180 » by MyUniBroDavis » Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:27 am

I know that the jazz are apparently gameplanning super wel even though I haven’t been watching them but goddamn they’re on fire lol

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