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2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk

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Re: 2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk 

Post#621 » by zaymon » Fri Feb 19, 2021 10:04 am

MagicMatic wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
Mitchell Robinson, RJ Barrett, Caruso, and THT. Which of those players are worse examples of development compared to Bamba?

Knox and Ntilikina were misses, but that should tell you something if even they believe Bamba isn’t being utilized well.


This is just bad narrative that fans push.
Non of them was ever "developed" by teams.

Mitchell Robinson in rookie year had 19 points, 21 rebounds game.
3 weeks into his nba career he had 9 blocks in single game.

RJ Barrett in his first NBA game of his entire career, first game as pro in life, scored 21 points and had 5 rebounds, 2 assists. In his 3rd game he had 26 points, in his 4th game he had 19 points, 15 rebounds and 5 assists.

Difference between Bamba and any other sucessful player is simply level of talent.
For same reasons Bucks "developed " Giannis, but on same team Jabari Parker and Thon Maker, with same coaches failed.

But it's probably easier for fans to find fall -man, than accept player they previouslly hoped will change tragjectory of their favorite team is simply bum.


Pick #s aside, other organizations do more with less.

When is the last time Orlando drafted someone that greatly exceeded expectations in the last first/ 2nd round?

We’re seriously talking about trading the #6 draft pick, a few years removed, for the 46th pick that we gave away for cash...

At some point you have to ask yourself if Orlando is either terrible at evaluating talent, developing players, or both.

We have much better record drafting players than Knicks and you can argue about Lakers.
Knicks didnt draft one player who looks like solid starter, even Barrett has a long way to go.
Lakers drafted a bunch of overhyped prospects who dont contribute to winning and were fortunate enough that Lebron wanted to come there despite being arguably top 3 worst organization.
Isaac was a great pick, Okeke and Anthony are looking like rotation players.
You are talking only about Bamba. Bamba was my least favourite prospect, but i understand that they wanted to roll the dice on his tools. Even yesterday you could see he can be impactful only standing in the right place ( which not happens often). Clifford needs to break his lazy habits, if it means not playing him for stretches i am ok with it.
My money is on Banchero going number 1 !
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Re: 2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk 

Post#622 » by pepe1991 » Fri Feb 19, 2021 10:09 am

MagicMatic wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
Mitchell Robinson, RJ Barrett, Caruso, and THT. Which of those players are worse examples of development compared to Bamba?

Knox and Ntilikina were misses, but that should tell you something if even they believe Bamba isn’t being utilized well.


This is just bad narrative that fans push.
Non of them was ever "developed" by teams.

Mitchell Robinson in rookie year had 19 points, 21 rebounds game.
3 weeks into his nba career he had 9 blocks in single game.

RJ Barrett in his first NBA game of his entire career, first game as pro in life, scored 21 points and had 5 rebounds, 2 assists. In his 3rd game he had 26 points, in his 4th game he had 19 points, 15 rebounds and 5 assists.

Difference between Bamba and any other sucessful player is simply level of talent.
For same reasons Bucks "developed " Giannis, but on same team Jabari Parker and Thon Maker, with same coaches failed.

But it's probably easier for fans to find fall -man, than accept player they previouslly hoped will change tragjectory of their favorite team is simply bum.


Pick #s aside, other organizations do more with less.

When is the last time Orlando drafted someone that greatly exceeded expectations in the last first/ 2nd round?

We’re seriously talking about trading the #6 draft pick, a few years removed, for the 46th pick that we gave away for cash...

At some point you have to ask yourself if Orlando is either terrible at evaluating talent, developing players, or both.


There is one name at Orlando Magic ranks that survived change from Hennigan to Weltman and Hammond and who kept highly ranked job and has direct input on out drafting.
Matt Lloyd.

Fans never mention him, but if you read nba.com article/ interview with him, you can see he has lot to say who will be drafted.
Prior Magic, he worked for Bulls scouting departmen, being in charge of college scouting.
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Re: 2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk 

Post#623 » by Bensational » Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:40 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
This is just bad narrative that fans push.
Non of them was ever "developed" by teams.

Mitchell Robinson in rookie year had 19 points, 21 rebounds game.
3 weeks into his nba career he had 9 blocks in single game.

RJ Barrett in his first NBA game of his entire career, first game as pro in life, scored 21 points and had 5 rebounds, 2 assists. In his 3rd game he had 26 points, in his 4th game he had 19 points, 15 rebounds and 5 assists.

Difference between Bamba and any other sucessful player is simply level of talent.
For same reasons Bucks "developed " Giannis, but on same team Jabari Parker and Thon Maker, with same coaches failed.

But it's probably easier for fans to find fall -man, than accept player they previouslly hoped will change tragjectory of their favorite team is simply bum.


Pick #s aside, other organizations do more with less.

When is the last time Orlando drafted someone that greatly exceeded expectations in the last first/ 2nd round?

We’re seriously talking about trading the #6 draft pick, a few years removed, for the 46th pick that we gave away for cash...

At some point you have to ask yourself if Orlando is either terrible at evaluating talent, developing players, or both.


There is one name at Orlando Magic ranks that survived change from Hennigan to Weltman and Hammond and who kept highly ranked job and has direct input on out drafting.
Matt Lloyd.

Fans never mention him, but if you read nba.com article/ interview with him, you can see he has lot to say who will be drafted.
Prior Magic, he worked for Bulls scouting departmen, being in charge of college scouting.


So true. He’s been tucked away in the background whilst being a part of making all draft picks throughout the entire rebuild. The closest he came to drafting a star was out very first lottery pick (Oladipo). He’s put together a decade of uninspiring picks and still has his job. Must be a real WeHam protege at this point.
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Re: 2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk 

Post#624 » by Skybox » Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:58 am

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7401519
GSW offers a pick swap (MIN pick) but ORL probably won’t need to use it- just some lotto insurance

Next...
Wiseman/Birch
Isaac/Okeke/Aminu
Cade/TRoss/Bacon
Wiggins/Nesmith/MCW
Fultz/Anthony
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Re: 2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk 

Post#625 » by Skybox » Sat Feb 20, 2021 4:17 pm

33 days until the trade deadline...let's go WeHam. You will cement your legacy (either way) right now. There's never been a more sensible time for them to go all in (some direction). Strong draft, decimated roster, no expectations, really-no interest due to covid, re-signed young hopefuls, Evan free agent, AG doubly redundant but still young and under contract, Vuc at an all time peak...

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Re: 2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk 

Post#626 » by zaymon » Sat Feb 20, 2021 5:17 pm

Skybox wrote:33 days until the trade deadline...let's go WeHam. You will cement your legacy (either way) right now. There's never been a more sensible time for them to go all in (some direction). Strong draft, decimated roster, no expectations, really-no interest due to covid, re-signed young hopefuls, Evan free agent, AG doubly redundant but still young and under contract, Vuc at an all time peak...

LOVED or HATED. NOW or NEVER!


Dont get your hopes high, we still have no real pressure to make moves. Being in the middle has its benefits.
My money is on Banchero going number 1 !
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Re: 2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk 

Post#627 » by VFX » Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:38 pm

We can close this thread. WeHam don’t make trades because that would mean they would have to make decisions.

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Re: 2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk 

Post#628 » by Skybox » Sat Feb 20, 2021 8:40 pm

IDK who else has spent time on the trade boards over the last few months...there were quite a few promoting a Vuc acquisition and a whole lot of "GSW doesn't need a Center, Draymond closes out our games anyway"...might want to check that box score last night.

And then, figure out what you're going to do with Anthony Davis and the big bad Lakers.

Size Matters.
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Re: 2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk 

Post#629 » by RookieStar » Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:47 pm

Skybox wrote:IDK who else has spent time on the trade boards over the last few months...there were quite a few promoting a Vuc acquisition and a whole lot of "GSW doesn't need a Center, Draymond closes out our games anyway"...might want to check that box score last night.

And then, figure out what you're going to do with Anthony Davis and the big bad Lakers.

Size Matters.


I sometimes check out the trade boards. You are right, any contender needs a REAL big. Lol good luck meeting Joel, Jokic, AD, Giannis and the like on your road to the championship with a below 6'10 big man. Not only do you need abig to contain them, you need a big to score as well to make them work on D.

So yeah, they really are trying to buy low with Vuc
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Re: 2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk 

Post#630 » by MasterGMer » Thu Feb 25, 2021 2:36 am

How about trade with Spurs for DeMar DeRozan? I know he is expiring but he can provide great scoring on the wing
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Re: 2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk 

Post#631 » by Blue_and_Whte » Sun Feb 28, 2021 2:49 am

Maybe Mo cant take some of his fanboys with him. Clean up the board. Personally I'd take that C's trade. Williams III is an upgrade over Mo, an FRP too?! Would suck to see Gordon go but thems the breaks
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Re: 2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk 

Post#632 » by Skybox » Sun Feb 28, 2021 2:50 pm

Should ORL give some consideration to pursuing Dinwiddie? We have guys available that would absolutely enhance BRK’s title shot in AG, Evan, TRoss ...obviously, he’s a huge flight risk but I’m sure you can talk to his agent about future plans & expectations and see if he’d embrace a leading role in ORL with a dominant offensive force at Center, a young core coming back, and a high pick. I’m not super familiar with his game but he’s shown some leading-man skills with the rock in his hands. I can’t imagine he returns to BRK with Kylie and Hardenright in front of him and I can’t see BRK paying much for that picture either. He’s good-sized and has shown he can score...would be nicer if he could shoot 40% from three but talent is talent and I’m kind of over planning around Fultz. We need scorers.

Maybe TRoss for Din straight up, or add Birch for Shamet for even more fit/timeline benefit to both.
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Re: 2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk 

Post#633 » by mg » Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:14 pm

^WeHam is already so adverse to making trades it just seems highly unlikely they change course and trade for an injured player that can opt out this offseason. A sign and trade type deal this offseason could make more sense depending on which player is drafted...who knows.
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Re: 2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk 

Post#634 » by drsd » Tue Mar 2, 2021 10:25 am

Forbes has an interesting value list if the Magic was to have a fire-sale:

Vučević is worth a package of rising young player, a first-round pick and a veteran with an expiring contract.
Ross is worth a young guy and a pick.
Gordon is worth undefined. The Magic is asking for a package lottery pick, young player, and a good veteran, and no team is offering that.
Fournier is worth a FRP.


Forbes LINK
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Re: 2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk 

Post#635 » by drsd » Tue Mar 2, 2021 10:28 am

OMD has the Magic core as: Jonathan Isaac, Markelle Fultz, their upcoming draft pick, Nikola Vučević, and probably Cole Anthony and Chuma Okeke. Hard to disagree.

One player we have not really talked about trade wise is Ennis. He will have some sort of value for another team and could be more than a throw-in on a trade.
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Re: 2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk 

Post#636 » by basketballRob » Tue Mar 2, 2021 11:48 am

drsd wrote:OMD has the Magic core as: Jonathan Isaac, Markelle Fultz, their upcoming draft pick, Nikola Vučević, and probably Cole Anthony and Chuma Okeke. Hard to disagree.

One player we have not really talked about trade wise is Ennis. He will have some sort of value for another team and could be more than a throw-in on a trade.
We should at least get a second round pick for him. I think that's what we gave Philadelphia last season.

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Re: 2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk 

Post#637 » by tiderulz » Tue Mar 2, 2021 1:31 pm

drsd wrote:Forbes has an interesting value list if the Magic was to have a fire-sale:

Vučević is worth a package of rising young player, a first-round pick and a veteran with an expiring contract.
Ross is worth a young guy and a pick.
Gordon is worth undefined. The Magic is asking for a package lottery pick, young player, and a good veteran, and no team is offering that.
Fournier is worth a FRP.


Forbes LINK

ehh, i think Ross is worth a FRP or a young guy, but not both.
agree with Magic overvaluing AG.
Fournier may get a FRP, but it will likely be in the 20's

Vuc's worth is about that, but the center position has been de-valued somewhat.
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Re: 2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk 

Post#638 » by drsd » Tue Mar 2, 2021 1:39 pm

tiderulz wrote:
drsd wrote:Forbes has an interesting value list if the Magic was to have a fire-sale:

Vučević is worth a package of rising young player, a first-round pick and a veteran with an expiring contract.
Ross is worth a young guy and a pick.
Gordon is worth undefined. The Magic is asking for a package lottery pick, young player, and a good veteran, and no team is offering that.
Fournier is worth a FRP.


Forbes LINK

ehh, i think Ross is worth a FRP or a young guy, but not both.
agree with Magic overvaluing AG.
Fournier may get a FRP, but it will likely be in the 20's

Vuc's worth is about that, but the center position has been de-valued somewhat.



For Ross, I read "a pick" as a SRP. I could see the Sixers trading Terrance Ferguson and their second-round pick for Ross, for example.

..
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Re: 2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk 

Post#639 » by tiderulz » Tue Mar 2, 2021 2:04 pm

drsd wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
drsd wrote:Forbes has an interesting value list if the Magic was to have a fire-sale:

Vučević is worth a package of rising young player, a first-round pick and a veteran with an expiring contract.
Ross is worth a young guy and a pick.
Gordon is worth undefined. The Magic is asking for a package lottery pick, young player, and a good veteran, and no team is offering that.
Fournier is worth a FRP.


Forbes LINK

ehh, i think Ross is worth a FRP or a young guy, but not both.
agree with Magic overvaluing AG.
Fournier may get a FRP, but it will likely be in the 20's

Vuc's worth is about that, but the center position has been de-valued somewhat.



For Ross, I read "a pick" as a SRP. I could see the Sixers trading Terrance Ferguson and their second-round pick for Ross, for example.

..

yeah, my bad, i read frp into that but thats not what you said
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Re: 2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk 

Post#640 » by MartinsIzAfraud » Tue Mar 2, 2021 6:00 pm

[tweet][/tweet]FO has to be looking at possibly a PG via trade with Fournier.

Even with Cole heathy we’ve got Fultz off an ACL & MCScrub. I don’t see them rushing Fultz back and Cole isn’t ready to start.

Bledsoe wouldn’t be terrible especially since his lasy year isn’t guaranteed. The only issue we’d be a tax team without another move to clear space. At that point it’s too complicated for our FO.

Ricky Rubio would be a sweet pull for a 1 year rental from Minny as well.
A scoring guard.. never heard of one. :roll:

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