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Julius Randle IS a 'cornerstone' player

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Re: Julius Randle IS a 'cornerstone' player 

Post#321 » by Davis18 » Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:57 am

DaGawd wrote:
Davis18 wrote:Teams need multiple so called franchise players to win a chip these days.
At least 2 superstar players.

Simple question.. is Randle max player.
PER isn't everything but it is one of key metric to measure players.
Randle ranks 33rd in PER this season.

We need to have one franchise player first before making a move for second & third.
Best way is via draft.. probability improves with higher picks.
Trade force you to gut the assets hence limiting chance to get second star player.
And FA, most players do not leave max money from home team on the table.

I think trading Randle is best for the team.
Let other team gut their assets for our player for a change.
And continue the search for our first franchise player.

Franchise players can be found at any spot in the draft


Of course you can find franchise player at any spot.
But most of the franchise players were picked top 3.
All I am saying is why not give best chance in the draft which is picking higher.
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Re: Julius Randle IS a 'cornerstone' player 

Post#322 » by JBreezeNY » Fri Feb 19, 2021 7:25 am

DaGawd wrote:
JBreezeNY wrote:
GONYK wrote:
Like I've said, he is winning relative to getting his option declined.

But he didn't have to outproduce Anthony Davis to get his option picked up.

Now, at $20M next season, he's underpaid relative to production. He now has to put up the same level of production for another season to cash in on this season's effort.

But that’s my point him playing well is motivated for catching in on it next season.

Look, I don’t deny that he will play well again next season, Randle isnt a bum he’s playing great he’s doing the best he can within his abilities.

But he’s just not someone that I see as a player you win with. I just don’t like his style of play, the same way many didn’t like Melo’s style of play but gave props to his talent.

Just curious what about his play style is it that you exactly don’t like? I could understand Melo since he holds the ball and doesn’t make anyone better.. but in Randle’s case he’s actually a willing passer and averaging a lil over 5assist per game at the power forward position is great. He’s also scoring at pretty good efficiency.. there’s not a lot I see to complain about

It’s not about the stats it’s just how he plays, how he moves, how he doesn’t really move off ball and waits with his hands out for the ball, his spin, his dribble-leaning fade/pull up. I feel it’s just..I don’t like seeing him on my screen.

I know he’s improved defensively but I still don’t rate him defensively either.

You know what it is? After rooting & being a super fan of a superior version in Melo since he was in high school, it just drained all the energy out of me. I now dislike Melo’s playing style whereas before I blindly supported it.

So now when there is a player that has similar playing styles but is a lesser version, it just doesn’t impress you seeing Randle play how he’s played especially knowing Randle’s limitations & weaknesses, as well as knowing the team badly needs talent and should slowly be building that while using their asset (Randle) to obtain other assets (picks/younger talented players) instead of jumping the gun on trying to compete.
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Re: Julius Randle IS a 'cornerstone' player 

Post#323 » by JBreezeNY » Fri Feb 19, 2021 7:30 am

Davis18 wrote:Teams need multiple so called franchise players to win a chip these days.
At least 2 superstar players.

Simple question.. is Randle max player.
PER isn't everything but it is one of key metric to measure players.
Randle ranks 33rd in PER this season.

We need to have one franchise player first before making a move for second & third.
Best way is via draft.. probability improves with higher picks.
Trade force you to gut the assets hence limiting chance to get second star player.
And FA, most players do not leave max money from home team on the table.

I think trading Randle is best for the team.
Let other team gut their assets for our player for a change.
And continue the search for our first franchise player.


Thank you.

This is what I’ve been saying....

You get the #1 option first THEN you go figure out the 2nd & 3rd, were operations backwards, hell there’s debate if Randle is even a 2nd or a 3rd :lol:

Yes it is nice that Randle has turned it around, yes it’s nice that we have someone to root for, yes people aren’t making fun of us this year because we have Stockholm syndrome from being called laughingstocks, but we need to focus on the betterment of the team for the future...not what a bunch of dipsticks have to say about us in the present.

I’d rather wish upon a star in these next two drafts than to pray a player from another team comes to us.

Booker isn’t coming here, neither is Towns, neither is Tatum, neither is Zion, neither is Morant.

If any of those players lands here I’ll buy everyone in this thread a drink with rounds on me.
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Re: Julius Randle IS a 'cornerstone' player 

Post#324 » by DaGawd » Fri Feb 19, 2021 10:54 am

JBreezeNY wrote:
Davis18 wrote:Teams need multiple so called franchise players to win a chip these days.
At least 2 superstar players.

Simple question.. is Randle max player.
PER isn't everything but it is one of key metric to measure players.
Randle ranks 33rd in PER this season.

We need to have one franchise player first before making a move for second & third.
Best way is via draft.. probability improves with higher picks.
Trade force you to gut the assets hence limiting chance to get second star player.
And FA, most players do not leave max money from home team on the table.

I think trading Randle is best for the team.
Let other team gut their assets for our player for a change.
And continue the search for our first franchise player.


Thank you.

This is what I’ve been saying....

You get the #1 option first THEN you go figure out the 2nd & 3rd, were operations backwards, hell there’s debate if Randle is even a 2nd or a 3rd :lol:

Yes it is nice that Randle has turned it around, yes it’s nice that we have someone to root for, yes people aren’t making fun of us this year because we have Stockholm syndrome from being called laughingstocks, but we need to focus on the betterment of the team for the future...not what a bunch of dipsticks have to say about us in the present.

I’d rather wish upon a star in these next two drafts than to pray a player from another team comes to us.

Booker isn’t coming here, neither is Towns, neither is Tatum, neither is Zion, neither is Morant.

If any of those players lands here I’ll buy everyone in this thread a drink with rounds on me.

Never say never.. especially with his like Towns and Zion if their respective teams continue to struggle during their tenure. We’ve seen in today’s NBA players.. even the stars you draft are likely to bail for greener pastures elsewhere if your franchise shows to be inept. This isn’t the NBA of yesterday where stars stay with one team their entire careers any more. And then to that point what is a star who can’t win by themselves? It takes multiple stars combining to win nowadays. The only name on that list of players you just listed who has really tasted success in their early careers is Jayson Tatum. Devin Booker is just now starting to after enduring losing for the entire duration of his rookie contract
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Re: Julius Randle IS a 'cornerstone' player 

Post#325 » by prophet_of_rage » Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:39 pm

DaGawd wrote:
spree8 wrote:
DaGawd wrote:Yup.. and further more most of these guys didn’t win with only the team that drafted them..they switch situations at some point. If the Knicks start committing to building solid teams that can lead to attracting on of these mythical creatures to lead us to the promise land



Ehhh, technically, a lot of them are tied to drafted superstars...


2008: Pierce (drafted by BOS and why they were able to trade for KG and Allen)
2009: Kobe (drafted) vs Howard (drafted)
2010: Kobe (drafted)
2011: Dirk (drafted)
2012: Lebron & Wade (Wade drafted and the reason why Lebron came to Miami)- vs KD & WB & Harden (all drafted by OKC)
2013: Lebron & Wade (Wade drafted)
2014: Duncan & Kawhi (both drafted)
2015: Curry, Klay, Draymond (all drafted)
2016: Lebron & Kyrie (both drafted/Lebron came back to the team that drafted him)
2017: Curry, Klay, Dray (drafted) & KD (FA)
2018: Curry, Klay, Dray (drafted) & KD (FA)
2019: Kawhi (acquired for their franchise guy they drafted in the top of the draft) & Siakam (drafted)
2020: Lebron & AD (FA & trade)

Multi-time champs prior to this..

MJ & Pippen drafted
Bird & McHale drafted
Magic & Worthy drafted
Olajuwon drafted
Duncan & DRob drafted

Finals loss:

Shaq & Penny drafted
Stockton & Malone drafted
Payton & Kemp drafted
Ewing drafted



I’ll forever fight the notion that the draft is some crap shoot that’s not worth trying to build your franchise thru. Look at all the top teams or superstars today...

Celtics: Tatum & Brown drafted
Jazz: Mitchell & Gobert drafted
Sixers: Simmons & Embiid drafted
Bucks: Giannis drafted
Warriors: Steph, Klay, Dray, Wiseman drafted
Nuggz: Jokic, Murray drafted
Mavs: Luka drafted
Blazers: Dame & CJ drafted
Suns: Booker, Ayton drafted
Hawks: Trae drafted
Grizzlies: Morant drafted
Pels: Zion drafted
Raps: Siakam drafted
Wiz: Beal drafted
Heat: Bam drafted


We don’t really have anyone on these guys’ level that have been drafted. We need one and will likely only be able to obtain one thru the draft. We could trade for one, but look what happened last time we did that (Melo)... we’ll have to gut our whole team which will likely make us a treadmill squad again. Free agency.. there’s nobody left for a few years.



I’m making peace with the fact that our picks this year won’t be at the top of the draft like at least ours should’ve been, but we need to at least keep them and try to hit on them like Spurs and Bucks did with Kawhi & Giannis later on in the draft.

But yea, Randle could be a #2 and RJ a #3... we just need that #1.

Well some of those guys are debatable 1 options themselves.. (Siakam..Bam..Trae.. hell some even say Beal) and none of them have any chips to their name other than Steph Dray and Klay. Some weren’t even lottery picks.. the Knicks just need to get better at identifying talent wherever they fall in the draft and not keep continuously tanking for a lottery pick
Tanking and then blowing. It's weird how well we do late draft traditionally but our higher picks have been terrible since Ewing with RJ in the interregnum.

I almost prefer us pi king low.

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Re: Julius Randle IS a 'cornerstone' player 

Post#326 » by spree8 » Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:41 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:
DaGawd wrote:
Davis18 wrote:Teams need multiple so called franchise players to win a chip these days.
At least 2 superstar players.

Simple question.. is Randle max player.
PER isn't everything but it is one of key metric to measure players.
Randle ranks 33rd in PER this season.

We need to have one franchise player first before making a move for second & third.
Best way is via draft.. probability improves with higher picks.
Trade force you to gut the assets hence limiting chance to get second star player.
And FA, most players do not leave max money from home team on the table.

I think trading Randle is best for the team.
Let other team gut their assets for our player for a change.
And continue the search for our first franchise player.

Franchise players can be found at any spot in the draft


It's amazing that we're even still debating this.



Most superstars throughout history were taken at the top. It’s really not close in comparison to the rest of the draft. It’s not impossible, but far, far harder.
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Re: Julius Randle IS a 'cornerstone' player 

Post#327 » by prophet_of_rage » Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:44 pm

JBreezeNY wrote:
DaGawd wrote:
JBreezeNY wrote:But that’s my point him playing well is motivated for catching in on it next season.

Look, I don’t deny that he will play well again next season, Randle isnt a bum he’s playing great he’s doing the best he can within his abilities.

But he’s just not someone that I see as a player you win with. I just don’t like his style of play, the same way many didn’t like Melo’s style of play but gave props to his talent.

Just curious what about his play style is it that you exactly don’t like? I could understand Melo since he holds the ball and doesn’t make anyone better.. but in Randle’s case he’s actually a willing passer and averaging a lil over 5assist per game at the power forward position is great. He’s also scoring at pretty good efficiency.. there’s not a lot I see to complain about

It’s not about the stats it’s just how he plays, how he moves, how he doesn’t really move off ball and waits with his hands out for the ball, his spin, his dribble-leaning fade/pull up. I feel it’s just..I don’t like seeing him on my screen.

I know he’s improved defensively but I still don’t rate him defensively either.

You know what it is? After rooting & being a super fan of a superior version in Melo since he was in high school, it just drained all the energy out of me. I now dislike Melo’s playing style whereas before I blindly supported it.

So now when there is a player that has similar playing styles but is a lesser version, it just doesn’t impress you seeing Randle play how he’s played especially knowing Randle’s limitations & weaknesses, as well as knowing the team badly needs talent and should slowly be building that while using their asset (Randle) to obtain other assets (picks/younger talented players) instead of jumping the gun on trying to compete.
But Randle is playing Lebron style not Melo style. So youbshouldn't be sp drained.

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Re: Julius Randle IS a 'cornerstone' player 

Post#328 » by DaGawd » Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:53 pm

prophet_of_rage wrote:
JBreezeNY wrote:
DaGawd wrote:Just curious what about his play style is it that you exactly don’t like? I could understand Melo since he holds the ball and doesn’t make anyone better.. but in Randle’s case he’s actually a willing passer and averaging a lil over 5assist per game at the power forward position is great. He’s also scoring at pretty good efficiency.. there’s not a lot I see to complain about

It’s not about the stats it’s just how he plays, how he moves, how he doesn’t really move off ball and waits with his hands out for the ball, his spin, his dribble-leaning fade/pull up. I feel it’s just..I don’t like seeing him on my screen.

I know he’s improved defensively but I still don’t rate him defensively either.

You know what it is? After rooting & being a super fan of a superior version in Melo since he was in high school, it just drained all the energy out of me. I now dislike Melo’s playing style whereas before I blindly supported it.

So now when there is a player that has similar playing styles but is a lesser version, it just doesn’t impress you seeing Randle play how he’s played especially knowing Randle’s limitations & weaknesses, as well as knowing the team badly needs talent and should slowly be building that while using their asset (Randle) to obtain other assets (picks/younger talented players) instead of jumping the gun on trying to compete.
But Randle is playing Lebron style not Melo style. So youbshouldn't be sp drained.

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This also. He’s not really playing like Melo at all. I don’t see him sizing up his guy followed by jab step spam and hoisting contesting jumper after contested jumper.. which is basically how prime Melo played
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Re: Julius Randle IS a 'cornerstone' player 

Post#329 » by Jalen Bluntson » Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:09 pm

Dude is having a great season and... made improvements to his game. What more do you want for a 26yr old making 18mil? If he plays this way all year... you pick up his option. Any trade... would have to be a huge haul. I don't see any team going all in on Julius. He's here. He wants to be here. He's leaving it all on the court for us. I'm in for the ride with this dude. Total 180 from this offseason.

Randle for Batum plus picks!!! :lol:
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Re: Julius Randle IS a 'cornerstone' player 

Post#330 » by spree8 » Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:26 pm

Are We Ther Yet wrote:Dude is having a great season and... made improvements to his game. What more do you want for a 26yr old making 18mil? If he plays this way all year... you pick up his option. Any trade... would have to be a huge haul. I don't see any team going all in on Julius. He's here. He wants to be here. He's leaving it all on the court for us. I'm in for the ride with this dude. Total 180 from this offseason.

Randle for Batum plus picks!!! :lol:



Lol I was one of those Randle for Batum +picks guys. But to be fair, the dude bounced back big time this year because of how bad he played last year... he said he felt he let the team down.
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Re: Julius Randle IS a 'cornerstone' player 

Post#331 » by bigfnjoe96 » Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:51 pm

As of right now, Randle at minimum should get his option picked up. There's no real hurry to extend him, especially since we have no idea what the CAP will look like due to Covid.

1 thing I'm optimistic about, is our Front Office: Aller, Perrin & Zanic. As for Perry, If we make the playoffs, I think he might be safe but who knows.

Randle definitely has taken his game to the next level. If "Cornerstone" means a piece to a winning franchise "Yes" but I'm still not sold on him as a #1 guy just yet

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Re: Julius Randle IS a 'cornerstone' player 

Post#332 » by Richard4444 » Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:15 pm

spree8 wrote:
DaGawd wrote:
god shammgod wrote:
all you do is gotta look at the list of champions. the last 10 years.

bron
kawhi
durant
durant
bron
curry
kawhi
bron
bron
dirk

outside of curry and dirk getting 1 each, 3 guys won all the championships. this year the teams people think are mostly likely to win it all are the teams led by bron & durant. they tell you it's a team sport, they lie.

Yup.. and further more most of these guys didn’t win with only the team that drafted them..they switch situations at some point. If the Knicks start committing to building solid teams that can lead to attracting on of these mythical creatures to lead us to the promise land



Ehhh, technically, a lot of them are tied to drafted superstars...


2008: Pierce (drafted by BOS and why they were able to trade for KG and Allen)
2009: Kobe (drafted) vs Howard (drafted)
2010: Kobe (drafted)
2011: Dirk (drafted)
2012: Lebron & Wade (Wade drafted and the reason why Lebron came to Miami)- vs KD & WB & Harden (all drafted by OKC)
2013: Lebron & Wade (Wade drafted)
2014: Duncan & Kawhi (both drafted)
2015: Curry, Klay, Draymond (all drafted)
2016: Lebron & Kyrie (both drafted/Lebron came back to the team that drafted him)
2017: Curry, Klay, Dray (drafted) & KD (FA)
2018: Curry, Klay, Dray (drafted) & KD (FA)
2019: Kawhi (acquired for their franchise guy they drafted in the top of the draft) & Siakam (drafted)
2020: Lebron & AD (FA & trade)

Multi-time champs prior to this..

MJ & Pippen drafted
Bird & McHale drafted
Magic & Worthy drafted
Olajuwon drafted
Duncan & DRob drafted

Finals loss:

Shaq & Penny drafted
Stockton & Malone drafted
Payton & Kemp drafted
Ewing drafted



I’ll forever fight the notion that the draft is some crap shoot that’s not worth trying to build your franchise thru. Look at all the top teams or superstars today...

Celtics: Tatum & Brown drafted
Jazz: Mitchell & Gobert drafted
Sixers: Simmons & Embiid drafted
Bucks: Giannis drafted
Warriors: Steph, Klay, Dray, Wiseman drafted
Nuggz: Jokic, Murray drafted
Mavs: Luka drafted
Blazers: Dame & CJ drafted
Suns: Booker, Ayton drafted
Hawks: Trae drafted
Grizzlies: Morant drafted
Pels: Zion drafted
Raps: Siakam drafted
Wiz: Beal drafted
Heat: Bam drafted


We don’t really have anyone on these guys’ level that have been drafted. We need one and will likely only be able to obtain one thru the draft. We could trade for one, but look what happened last time we did that (Melo)... we’ll have to gut our whole team which will likely make us a treadmill squad again. Free agency.. there’s nobody left for a few years.



I’m making peace with the fact that our picks this year won’t be at the top of the draft like at least ours should’ve been, but we need to at least keep them and try to hit on them like Spurs and Bucks did with Kawhi & Giannis later on in the draft.

But yea, Randle could be a #2 and RJ a #3... we just need that #1.


Your list of players:
Celtics: Tatum (3) & Brown (2) drafted
Jazz: Mitchell (13) & Gobert (27) drafted
Sixers: Simmons (1) & Embiid (3) drafted
Bucks: Giannis (15) drafted
Warriors: Steph (7), Klay (11), Dray (35), Wiseman (2) drafted
Nuggz: Jokic (41), Murray (7) drafted
Mavs: Luka (3) drafted
Blazers: Dame (6) & CJ (10) drafted
Suns: Booker, (13) Ayton (1) drafted
Hawks: Trae (5) drafted
Grizzlies: Morant (2) drafted
Pels: Zion (1) drafted
Raps: Siakam (27) drafted
Wiz: Beal (3) drafted
Heat: Bam (14) drafted


The draft is indeed a crapshoot outside the Top 3 players:

Picks 1-3 = 10 stars
Picks 4-6 = 2 stars
Picks 7-9 = 2 stars
Picks 10-12 = 2 stars
Picks 13-15 = 4 stars
Picks 28-30 = 2 stars
Picks 33-35 = 1 star
Picks 40-42 = 1 star
BAF Brooklyn - Pre-Season NBA 2K Simulation 2023 Champions.

Brunson/Nembhard/Micic
IQ/Strus/Ben Sheppard
Butler/Nesmith/Watford
Batum/Boucher/Morris/
Embiid/Plumlee/Landale/
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Re: Julius Randle IS a 'cornerstone' player 

Post#333 » by GONYK » Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:44 pm

spree8 wrote:
DaGawd wrote:
god shammgod wrote:
all you do is gotta look at the list of champions. the last 10 years.

bron
kawhi
durant
durant
bron
curry
kawhi
bron
bron
dirk

outside of curry and dirk getting 1 each, 3 guys won all the championships. this year the teams people think are mostly likely to win it all are the teams led by bron & durant. they tell you it's a team sport, they lie.

Yup.. and further more most of these guys didn’t win with only the team that drafted them..they switch situations at some point. If the Knicks start committing to building solid teams that can lead to attracting on of these mythical creatures to lead us to the promise land



Ehhh, technically, a lot of them are tied to drafted superstars...


2008: Pierce (drafted by BOS and why they were able to trade for KG and Allen)
2009: Kobe (drafted) vs Howard (drafted)
2010: Kobe (drafted)
2011: Dirk (drafted)
2012: Lebron & Wade (Wade drafted and the reason why Lebron came to Miami)- vs KD & WB & Harden (all drafted by OKC)
2013: Lebron & Wade (Wade drafted)
2014: Duncan & Kawhi (both drafted)
2015: Curry, Klay, Draymond (all drafted)
2016: Lebron & Kyrie (both drafted/Lebron came back to the team that drafted him)
2017: Curry, Klay, Dray (drafted) & KD (FA)
2018: Curry, Klay, Dray (drafted) & KD (FA)
2019: Kawhi (acquired for their franchise guy they drafted in the top of the draft) & Siakam (drafted)
2020: Lebron & AD (FA & trade)

Multi-time champs prior to this..

MJ & Pippen drafted
Bird & McHale drafted
Magic & Worthy drafted
Olajuwon drafted
Duncan & DRob drafted

Finals loss:

Shaq & Penny drafted
Stockton & Malone drafted
Payton & Kemp drafted
Ewing drafted



I’ll forever fight the notion that the draft is some crap shoot that’s not worth trying to build your franchise thru. Look at all the top teams or superstars today...

Celtics: Tatum & Brown drafted
Jazz: Mitchell & Gobert drafted
Sixers: Simmons & Embiid drafted
Bucks: Giannis drafted
Warriors: Steph, Klay, Dray, Wiseman drafted
Nuggz: Jokic, Murray drafted
Mavs: Luka drafted
Blazers: Dame & CJ drafted
Suns: Booker, Ayton drafted
Hawks: Trae drafted
Grizzlies: Morant drafted
Pels: Zion drafted
Raps: Siakam drafted
Wiz: Beal drafted
Heat: Bam drafted


We don’t really have anyone on these guys’ level that have been drafted. We need one and will likely only be able to obtain one thru the draft. We could trade for one, but look what happened last time we did that (Melo)... we’ll have to gut our whole team which will likely make us a treadmill squad again. Free agency.. there’s nobody left for a few years.



I’m making peace with the fact that our picks this year won’t be at the top of the draft like at least ours should’ve been, but we need to at least keep them and try to hit on them like Spurs and Bucks did with Kawhi & Giannis later on in the draft.

But yea, Randle could be a #2 and RJ a #3... we just need that #1.


There is nothing special about drafting a star vs getting one vs. trade/signing other than asset allocation and Bird Rights.

Randle is much closer to a drafted player because we didn't trade for him directly, he's on a pretty cheap deal for his level of production, and we will have his full Bird Rights in 2022.

There would be no difference if we drafted him.
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Re: Julius Randle IS a 'cornerstone' player 

Post#334 » by 3toheadmelo » Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:48 pm

DaGawd wrote:
JBreezeNY wrote:
Davis18 wrote:Teams need multiple so called franchise players to win a chip these days.
At least 2 superstar players.

Simple question.. is Randle max player.
PER isn't everything but it is one of key metric to measure players.
Randle ranks 33rd in PER this season.

We need to have one franchise player first before making a move for second & third.
Best way is via draft.. probability improves with higher picks.
Trade force you to gut the assets hence limiting chance to get second star player.
And FA, most players do not leave max money from home team on the table.

I think trading Randle is best for the team.
Let other team gut their assets for our player for a change.
And continue the search for our first franchise player.


Thank you.

This is what I’ve been saying....

You get the #1 option first THEN you go figure out the 2nd & 3rd, were operations backwards, hell there’s debate if Randle is even a 2nd or a 3rd :lol:

Yes it is nice that Randle has turned it around, yes it’s nice that we have someone to root for, yes people aren’t making fun of us this year because we have Stockholm syndrome from being called laughingstocks, but we need to focus on the betterment of the team for the future...not what a bunch of dipsticks have to say about us in the present.

I’d rather wish upon a star in these next two drafts than to pray a player from another team comes to us.

Booker isn’t coming here, neither is Towns, neither is Tatum, neither is Zion, neither is Morant.

If any of those players lands here I’ll buy everyone in this thread a drink with rounds on me.

Never say never.. especially with his like Towns and Zion if their respective teams continue to struggle during their tenure. We’ve seen in today’s NBA players.. even the stars you draft are likely to bail for greener pastures elsewhere if your franchise shows to be inept. This isn’t the NBA of yesterday where stars stay with one team their entire careers any more. And then to that point what is a star who can’t win by themselves? It takes multiple stars combining to win nowadays. The only name on that list of players you just listed who has really tasted success in their early careers is Jayson Tatum. Devin Booker is just now starting to after enduring losing for the entire duration of his rookie contract

Ironically, like 95% of this board didn’t want to tank for Tatum cause he reminded people too much of Melo :lol:

But yeah. Most of these high draft picks or young stars still haven’t won schit and a lot of them are still on losing teams. There really hasn’t been any “franchise” changing talents that turned their losing teams into big winning ones. Wouldn’t be surprised at all if they end up switching teams.
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Re: Julius Randle IS a 'cornerstone' player 

Post#335 » by Zenzibar » Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:51 pm

https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2021/2/17/22284335/julius-randle-new-york-knicks-all-star-high-school-draft

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Julius Randle has become the player he was always meant to be
How Julius Randle finally found the right situation to become an All-Star.

By Ricky O'Donnell Feb 17, 2021, 9:43am EST 7 Comments

Julius Randle’s teammates blocked him from the microphone set up in Madison Square Garden to offer an opening statement on his behalf. Randle had just dropped 44 points on the Atlanta Hawks to carry his New York Knicks to their third straight victory, and his support cast had a message they wanted to share with the world before he began his post-game interview

“If this man’s not an All-Star, there’s a problem,” said Theo Pinson while surrounded by R.J. Barrett and Immanuel Quickley. They weren’t wrong.

In his seventh NBA season, Randle has blossomed into the leader of an alarmingly competent Knicks team during head coach Tom Thibodeau’s first season in charge. Randle is putting up career-best numbers in scoring (23.1 points per game), assists, and rebounding, where’s he’s top-10 in the league. He’s also second in the NBA in minutes per game.

A year after finishing 21-45 and being one of eight teams to miss the season restart in the bubble, the Knicks are one game under .500 and fighting for playoff position. If the season ended today, New York would be the No. 6 seed in the Eastern Conference. A Knicks defense that finished No. 23 last year has jumped to No. 3 under Thibodeau, and young players like Barrett and Quickley have turned into dependable performers overnight. None of this would be possible without Randle’s star turn, though.


While he’s still only 26 years old, the thought of Randle putting together an All-Star season at this point in his career felt like a long shot. Not anymore. The talent Randle has shown from an early age has always been there, he just needed a team that could put him in the best position to succeed. It’s all coming together in his second season with the Knicks.

It wasn’t all that long ago when Randle was considered one of the brightest young basketball prospects in America. As a high school senior out of Prestonwood Christian in Plano, Texas, Randle was considered a consensus top-three prospect in the class of 2013 with Andrew Wiggins and Jabari Parker. The 6’9 forward built his reputation bulldozing through overmatched teenagers, but his physicality wasn’t the only part of his game that made him such a tantalizing long-term prospect.

The vision of Randle as a future NBA star was on display as he arrived in Chicago for the 2013 McDonald’s All-American Game. In the practices leading up to the game, Randle’s talent jumped off the floor for his burgeoning skill level as much as his raw power. Yes, Randle looked like the strongest player on the floor, and one of the fastest too. He was also handling the ball in transition, making reads as a passer, blowing by defenders off the dribble, and bodying opposing players at the rim.

Randle wasn’t even supposed to be a McDonald’s All-American after a fractured right foot cost him almost all of his senior season. Instead, he returned for the final five games and led Prestonwood to its second-straight state championship. If he was only a late addition to the event because of his injury, he sure didn’t look like someone coming off crutches weeks earlier against his most talented peers from around the country.

Randle’s ability to flash guard skills in the body of a throwback power forward is always what made him so intriguing. In those days, Randle’s ball handling ability was at the top of his scouting report. “A very talented ball-handler, Randle has an excellent first step and an array of shot-creating skills he can utilize in the mid or high post,” wrote DraftExpress in their first analysis of Randle in Jan. of 2012 as a high school junior.

Randle would commit to Kentucky a couple of weeks before the game, becoming the crown jewel of a class that had a record six McDonald’s All-Americans. There was buzz about a perfect season for the Wildcats as Randle arrived on campus, but Big Blue Nation would have to wait another year until it almost came true with Karl-Anthony Towns and Devin Booker. Instead, Randle’s ‘Cats struggled to live up to expectations. Kentucky had loads of size and talent, but it had no shooting, as seems to be the case every year in Lexington. After dropping a string of games in the second half of SEC play, Kentucky was given a No. 8 seed in the NCAA tournament before going on a Cinderella run to the national title game that ended with a loss to UConn.

Randle entered the draft as expected, but his stock had taken a small hit. Kentucky didn’t let him create much with the ball in his hands, and didn’t have the spacing required to maximize his brutalizing drives to the basket. He watched Wiggins and Parker go 1-2, and then he fell to the Lakers at No. 7. Only 14 minutes into the first game of his NBA career, Randle suffered a broken tibia in his right leg and would miss the rest of the season.

Randle played 81 games in his second season, but that year was all about Kobe Bryant’s farewell tour. He took steps forward as a scorer and rebounder the next two years, but didn’t exactly look like the future star he was promised to be out of high school. When LeBron James committed to the Lakers on the first day of free agency in the summer of 2018, Randle asked the franchise to allow him to become an unrestricted free agent. He would sign the Pelicans for a season playing in another crowded front court with Anthony Davis. Randle would enjoy the best season of his career in New Orleans, but he was on the move again in the summer.

Randle was a Knick, signing a three-year, $63 million with a team option for the third season only after the team watched Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving join their crosstown rivals in Brooklyn. No one counted on Randle to be the savior the Knicks were hoping to land in free agency, and in his first season, he looked like anything but that.


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Head coach David Fizdale talked about emphasizing Randle’s creation ability when he showed up in New York, but the Knicks couldn’t help but get in their own way. They spent all of their cap space on power forwards in free agency, signing Bobby Portis, Taj Gibson, and Marcus Morris in addition to Randle. The season was a disaster from the opening tip-off. Fizdale was fired after a 4-18 start, and the season was essentially a wash from then on.

Both Randle and the Knicks had very little in the way of expectations coming into this year, but they did have Thibodeau on their side. While critics rolled their eyes at the hiring of another retread head coach that had long-standing ties to New York’s new front office, Thibodeau has immediately made the Knicks look more organized, disciplined, and professional. No one has benefitted more than Randle.

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Thibodeau once reworked his offense with the Chicago Bulls to make Joakim Noah a ‘point-center’ in the absence of Derrick Rose to injury. He’s essentially done the same thing with Randle this year. If Randle isn’t dribbling the ball up the court after made baskets, he is the focal point of every offensive possession for New York. Thibodeau has helped simplify the game for Randle, getting him the ball in spots where he can make can make easy reads on when to attack and when to look for a teammate. Randle has made those actions even more effective by making shocking strides as a shooter.

This is how someone who wasn’t considered a top-100 player on multiple preseason lists suddenly transformed into a worthy All-Star candidate.

Randle is fully tapped into his creation skills
The playmaking boom Randle is experiencing this season hasn’t come from increased usage. His usage rate of 27.6 percent is almost identical to what it’s been the last two years. Meanwhile, his assist rate — which was exactly 15.8 percent the previous three seasons — has risen to a career-best 25.9 percent. He’s averaging two more assists per game than any of his teammates.

How is this happening? For one, Randle has the ball more than ever before even if he isn’t finishing plays. He ranks No. 6 in the league in touches this season and No. 15 in passes thrown per game, both numbers way up from last year. Randle is throwing as many passes as Draymond Green each night, and the only true bigs ahead of him are Nikola Jokic and Domantas Sabonis.

It feels like Randle is making quicker reads with the ball. Would he make this pass last year?

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Even during his big 44-point performance against the Hawks, Randle also finished with five assists. Earlier in his career he might have tried to draw a foul in this situation.

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Now he can see the floor and make a pass for three points instead of two:


The Knicks run actions to get switches on Randle early in the shot clock where he tries to punish smaller defenders with his physicality. When that doesn’t work, he now has a Plan B. Randle has learned how the read the help and where to go with the ball when the defense collapses on him.

Even when it doesn’t look pretty, it can be effective:


As Randle’s playmaking numbers have jumped, he’s also lowered his turnover percentage from last season. Part of this is the maturity that comes with having six years of experience under your belt. Part of it is a new role in a new scheme. The final piece for Randle has been forcing defenses to respect him from new areas on the court, which has opened up the rest of his game.

Randle’s improved shooting has been remarkable
If Randle’s playmaking skills were always bubbling just below the surface, his shooting touch had to be built from scratch. After hitting only three three-pointers in his season at Kentucky, Randle made just 37 three-pointers in his next 237 games after recovering from the injury his rookie year.


Randle finally started hitting threes during his one season in New Orleans, making a remarkable jump to can 67 triples on 34.4 percent shooting. He made a similar number of threes last year with the Knicks, but saw his percentage drop to 27.7 percent. With plenty of free time on his hands after New York’s season ended in March, Randle dedicated himself to remaking his jump shot. He took up to 1,500 jumpers per day over the extended offseason, according to The Athletic. He changed his diet, stopped drinking alcohol, and got in better shape. It’s all paying off for him right now.

After going 7-for-13 from three-point range against the Hawks, Randle is now shooting 40.3 percent from behind the arc on the season on 4.4 attempts per game. He’s taking and making shots he could never dream of before.

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Randle hasn’t just improved as a three-point shooter, he’s improved as a shooter everywhere. He’s making 80.2 percent of his free throws after never hitting better than 73 percent before. He’s also taking and making way more long twos than ever before. A season ago, Randle took eight percent of his shots from between 16-feet and the three-point line and made 35.8 percent of them, per Basketball Reference. This year, he’s taking 13.6 percent of his shots from the same distance, while making a remarkable 47 percent of those attempts.

This is the look of a man who is confident shooting the ball:

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Randle is likely due for some regression, but it’s clear he’s put a serious amount of work into improving his shot from a variety of different situations. Play off Randle at your own risk now. He’s ready to burn you.

Julius Randle always had these skills. Now he’s turned into an All-Star
When Randle started his rise up the basketball word as a top-ranked high school player, the term ‘stretch four’ wasn’t yet widely accepted in the basketball lexicon. He entered the league just as it was seriously starting to evolve, with players at his position needing to adapt more than anyone else. It’s been a long road, but Randle has worked to fit his game into today’s league.

It’s clear that the game is slowing down for Randle in his seventh year. His ability to punish weaker defenders remains the foundation of his skill set, but there’s so much more where that came from. Randle won’t hesitate to take a jump shot with a few inches of space. Trap him and he’ll find the open teammate. He’s even playing a sizable role on a top-three defense in the league so far.

Randle isn’t just putting up numbers, he’s also helping his team win. He has a positive net rating for the first time in his career, per NBA.com.

Randle always had the ability to be an All-Star dating back his high school days when he was simply more dominant than any of his peers. He just needed the right system, right coach, and right development track. It’s all come together in his seventh season. The player powering the Knicks into playoff contention and turning into an All-Star before our eyes — this is who Julius Randle was always destined to be.
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Re: Julius Randle IS a 'cornerstone' player 

Post#336 » by 3toheadmelo » Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:56 pm

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Re: Julius Randle IS a 'cornerstone' player 

Post#337 » by 3toheadmelo » Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:58 pm

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Re: Julius Randle IS a 'cornerstone' player 

Post#338 » by spree8 » Fri Feb 19, 2021 3:04 pm

Richard4444 wrote:
spree8 wrote:
DaGawd wrote:Yup.. and further more most of these guys didn’t win with only the team that drafted them..they switch situations at some point. If the Knicks start committing to building solid teams that can lead to attracting on of these mythical creatures to lead us to the promise land



Ehhh, technically, a lot of them are tied to drafted superstars...


2008: Pierce (drafted by BOS and why they were able to trade for KG and Allen)
2009: Kobe (drafted) vs Howard (drafted)
2010: Kobe (drafted)
2011: Dirk (drafted)
2012: Lebron & Wade (Wade drafted and the reason why Lebron came to Miami)- vs KD & WB & Harden (all drafted by OKC)
2013: Lebron & Wade (Wade drafted)
2014: Duncan & Kawhi (both drafted)
2015: Curry, Klay, Draymond (all drafted)
2016: Lebron & Kyrie (both drafted/Lebron came back to the team that drafted him)
2017: Curry, Klay, Dray (drafted) & KD (FA)
2018: Curry, Klay, Dray (drafted) & KD (FA)
2019: Kawhi (acquired for their franchise guy they drafted in the top of the draft) & Siakam (drafted)
2020: Lebron & AD (FA & trade)

Multi-time champs prior to this..

MJ & Pippen drafted
Bird & McHale drafted
Magic & Worthy drafted
Olajuwon drafted
Duncan & DRob drafted

Finals loss:

Shaq & Penny drafted
Stockton & Malone drafted
Payton & Kemp drafted
Ewing drafted



I’ll forever fight the notion that the draft is some crap shoot that’s not worth trying to build your franchise thru. Look at all the top teams or superstars today...

Celtics: Tatum & Brown drafted
Jazz: Mitchell & Gobert drafted
Sixers: Simmons & Embiid drafted
Bucks: Giannis drafted
Warriors: Steph, Klay, Dray, Wiseman drafted
Nuggz: Jokic, Murray drafted
Mavs: Luka drafted
Blazers: Dame & CJ drafted
Suns: Booker, Ayton drafted
Hawks: Trae drafted
Grizzlies: Morant drafted
Pels: Zion drafted
Raps: Siakam drafted
Wiz: Beal drafted
Heat: Bam drafted


We don’t really have anyone on these guys’ level that have been drafted. We need one and will likely only be able to obtain one thru the draft. We could trade for one, but look what happened last time we did that (Melo)... we’ll have to gut our whole team which will likely make us a treadmill squad again. Free agency.. there’s nobody left for a few years.



I’m making peace with the fact that our picks this year won’t be at the top of the draft like at least ours should’ve been, but we need to at least keep them and try to hit on them like Spurs and Bucks did with Kawhi & Giannis later on in the draft.

But yea, Randle could be a #2 and RJ a #3... we just need that #1.


Your list of players:
Celtics: Tatum (3) & Brown (2) drafted
Jazz: Mitchell (13) & Gobert (27) drafted
Sixers: Simmons (1) & Embiid (3) drafted
Bucks: Giannis (15) drafted
Warriors: Steph (7), Klay (11), Dray (35), Wiseman (2) drafted
Nuggz: Jokic (41), Murray (7) drafted
Mavs: Luka (3) drafted
Blazers: Dame (6) & CJ (10) drafted
Suns: Booker, (13) Ayton (1) drafted
Hawks: Trae (5) drafted
Grizzlies: Morant (2) drafted
Pels: Zion (1) drafted
Raps: Siakam (27) drafted
Wiz: Beal (3) drafted
Heat: Bam (14) drafted


The draft is indeed a crapshoot outside the Top 3 players:

Picks 1-3 = 10 stars
Picks 4-6 = 2 stars
Picks 7-9 = 2 stars
Picks 10-12 = 2 stars
Picks 13-15 = 4 stars
Picks 28-30 = 2 stars
Picks 33-35 = 1 star
Picks 40-42 = 1 star



So 20 out of 24 stars were taken by teams who didn’t make the playoffs. My point exactly.

Check the history books...

Jordan- 3rd
Kareem- 1st
Lebron- 1st
Shaq- 1st
Duncan- 1st
Dream- 1st
Wilt- 1st
Russell- 2nd
Magic- 1st
Kobe- 13th (high school)
Bird- 6th
Oscar- 1st
DRob- 1st
Isiah- 2nd
McHale- 3rd
Dirk- 9th
Scottie- 5th
Curry- 7th
West- 2nd
Garnett- 5th
Durant- 2nd
Wade- 5th
Cp3- 4th
Kidd- 2nd
Payton- 2nd
Frazier- 5th
Ewing- 1st
Mailman- 13th
Barkley- 5th
Dr J- 12th
Drexler- 14th
Baylor- 1st
Iverson- 1st
Vince- 5th
Dominique- 3rd
Worthy- 1st
Barry- 2nd
Hondo- 7th
Pierce- 10th
Webber- 1st
Allen- 5th
Penny- 3rd
Amare- 9th
Dwight- 1st
McGrady- 9th
Melo- 3rd
KJ- 7th
GHill- 3rd
Sheed- 4th
Pau- 3rd
Reggie- 11th
Klay- 11th
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Re: Julius Randle IS a 'cornerstone' player 

Post#339 » by spree8 » Fri Feb 19, 2021 3:08 pm

GONYK wrote:
spree8 wrote:
DaGawd wrote:Yup.. and further more most of these guys didn’t win with only the team that drafted them..they switch situations at some point. If the Knicks start committing to building solid teams that can lead to attracting on of these mythical creatures to lead us to the promise land



Ehhh, technically, a lot of them are tied to drafted superstars...


2008: Pierce (drafted by BOS and why they were able to trade for KG and Allen)
2009: Kobe (drafted) vs Howard (drafted)
2010: Kobe (drafted)
2011: Dirk (drafted)
2012: Lebron & Wade (Wade drafted and the reason why Lebron came to Miami)- vs KD & WB & Harden (all drafted by OKC)
2013: Lebron & Wade (Wade drafted)
2014: Duncan & Kawhi (both drafted)
2015: Curry, Klay, Draymond (all drafted)
2016: Lebron & Kyrie (both drafted/Lebron came back to the team that drafted him)
2017: Curry, Klay, Dray (drafted) & KD (FA)
2018: Curry, Klay, Dray (drafted) & KD (FA)
2019: Kawhi (acquired for their franchise guy they drafted in the top of the draft) & Siakam (drafted)
2020: Lebron & AD (FA & trade)

Multi-time champs prior to this..

MJ & Pippen drafted
Bird & McHale drafted
Magic & Worthy drafted
Olajuwon drafted
Duncan & DRob drafted

Finals loss:

Shaq & Penny drafted
Stockton & Malone drafted
Payton & Kemp drafted
Ewing drafted



I’ll forever fight the notion that the draft is some crap shoot that’s not worth trying to build your franchise thru. Look at all the top teams or superstars today...

Celtics: Tatum & Brown drafted
Jazz: Mitchell & Gobert drafted
Sixers: Simmons & Embiid drafted
Bucks: Giannis drafted
Warriors: Steph, Klay, Dray, Wiseman drafted
Nuggz: Jokic, Murray drafted
Mavs: Luka drafted
Blazers: Dame & CJ drafted
Suns: Booker, Ayton drafted
Hawks: Trae drafted
Grizzlies: Morant drafted
Pels: Zion drafted
Raps: Siakam drafted
Wiz: Beal drafted
Heat: Bam drafted


We don’t really have anyone on these guys’ level that have been drafted. We need one and will likely only be able to obtain one thru the draft. We could trade for one, but look what happened last time we did that (Melo)... we’ll have to gut our whole team which will likely make us a treadmill squad again. Free agency.. there’s nobody left for a few years.



I’m making peace with the fact that our picks this year won’t be at the top of the draft like at least ours should’ve been, but we need to at least keep them and try to hit on them like Spurs and Bucks did with Kawhi & Giannis later on in the draft.

But yea, Randle could be a #2 and RJ a #3... we just need that #1.


There is nothing special about drafting a star vs getting one vs. trade/signing other than asset allocation and Bird Rights.

Randle is much closer to a drafted player because we didn't trade for him directly, he's on a pretty cheap deal for his level of production, and we will have his full Bird Rights in 2022.

There would be no difference if we drafted him.


Never said there’s something special about it. I said the probability of landing one is greater by far. Check the books man. When we trade for a star look what happens (Melo). And we’ve never signed one... a broken Amare let go by Phoenix because of that reason, doesn’t qualify. That’s what my point is. We trade for one, we fail (see McDyess and Marbury too). We try to sign one, we fail. The top of the draft is the best chance.
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Re: Julius Randle IS a 'cornerstone' player 

Post#340 » by spree8 » Fri Feb 19, 2021 3:14 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:
DaGawd wrote:
JBreezeNY wrote:
Thank you.

This is what I’ve been saying....

You get the #1 option first THEN you go figure out the 2nd & 3rd, were operations backwards, hell there’s debate if Randle is even a 2nd or a 3rd :lol:

Yes it is nice that Randle has turned it around, yes it’s nice that we have someone to root for, yes people aren’t making fun of us this year because we have Stockholm syndrome from being called laughingstocks, but we need to focus on the betterment of the team for the future...not what a bunch of dipsticks have to say about us in the present.

I’d rather wish upon a star in these next two drafts than to pray a player from another team comes to us.

Booker isn’t coming here, neither is Towns, neither is Tatum, neither is Zion, neither is Morant.

If any of those players lands here I’ll buy everyone in this thread a drink with rounds on me.

Never say never.. especially with his like Towns and Zion if their respective teams continue to struggle during their tenure. We’ve seen in today’s NBA players.. even the stars you draft are likely to bail for greener pastures elsewhere if your franchise shows to be inept. This isn’t the NBA of yesterday where stars stay with one team their entire careers any more. And then to that point what is a star who can’t win by themselves? It takes multiple stars combining to win nowadays. The only name on that list of players you just listed who has really tasted success in their early careers is Jayson Tatum. Devin Booker is just now starting to after enduring losing for the entire duration of his rookie contract

Ironically, like 95% of this board didn’t want to tank for Tatum cause he reminded people too much of Melo :lol:

But yeah. Most of these high draft picks or young stars still haven’t won schit and a lot of them are still on losing teams. There really hasn’t been any “franchise” changing talents that turned their losing teams into big winning ones. Wouldn’t be surprised at all if they end up switching teams.



Look how long it took Jordan to win. Just because they don’t have a chip yet doesn’t mean it’s pointless to have them. We could try to trade for one if they asked out, but we don’t have the assets to land someone like Tatum, Luka, or Mitchell. By the time these guys even asked for a trade and we could afford it, it’ll be like when we traded for all the rest... when they’re old and past their prime.

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