Julius Randle IS a 'cornerstone' player

[3toheadmelo]

Never say never.. especially with his like Towns and Zion if their respective teams continue to struggle during their tenure. We’ve seen in today’s NBA players.. even the stars you draft are likely to bail for greener pastures elsewhere if your franchise shows to be inept. This isn’t the NBA of yesterday where stars stay with one team their entire careers any more. And then to that point what is a star who can’t win by themselves? It takes multiple stars combining to win nowadays. The only name on that list of players you just listed who has really tasted success in their early careers is Jayson Tatum. Devin Booker is just now starting to after enduring losing for the entire duration of his rookie contract

Ironically, like 95% of this board didn’t want to tank for Tatum cause he reminded people too much of Melo

But yeah. Most of these high draft picks or young stars still haven’t won schit and a lot of them are still on losing teams. There really hasn’t been any “franchise” changing talents that turned their losing teams into big winning ones. Wouldn’t be surprised at all if they end up switching teams.

Look how long it took Jordan to win. Just because they don’t have a chip yet doesn’t mean it’s pointless to have them. We could try to trade for one if they asked out, but we don’t have the assets to land someone like Tatum, Luka, or Mitchell. By the time these guys even asked for a trade and we could afford it, it’ll be like when we traded for all the rest... when they’re old and past their prime.

No I’m not saying it’s pointless to have them. I’d kill to have Tatum, you know that. But you never know someone might just ask out.

It’s sorta why I want Lavine. He may not exactly be on those player’s levels but I think he can reach there under Thibs imo.

[3toheadmelo]

One interesting thing so far in the Randle interview with JJ Reddick is that Worldwide Wes asked Randle what type of coach does he need to take another leap and Randle said he wants someone who can hold him accountable, which is basically Thibs. Also the fact that Wes is even asking Randle for input on coaches, it just indicates they have long term plans with him.

[god shammgod]

Ironically, like 95% of this board didn’t want to tank for Tatum cause he reminded people too much of Melo

But yeah. Most of these high draft picks or young stars still haven’t won schit and a lot of them are still on losing teams. There really hasn’t been any “franchise” changing talents that turned their losing teams into big winning ones. Wouldn’t be surprised at all if they end up switching teams.

Look how long it took Jordan to win. Just because they don’t have a chip yet doesn’t mean it’s pointless to have them. We could try to trade for one if they asked out, but we don’t have the assets to land someone like Tatum, Luka, or Mitchell. By the time these guys even asked for a trade and we could afford it, it’ll be like when we traded for all the rest... when they’re old and past their prime.

No I’m not saying it’s pointless to have them. I’d kill to have Tatum, you know that. But you never know someone might just ask out.

It’s sorta why I want Lavine. He may not exactly be on those player’s levels but I think he can reach there under Thibs imo.

not all of those guys are gonna win. everyone missed my original point. only a few guys win all the championships. do people think tatum, luka, mitchell, jokic, embiid, giannis, booker, etc are all gonna win ? no way. most of them will never. it doesn't matter if you draft your star or sign him, outside of the top 2 or 3 guys, everyone else will mostly fail.

[spree8]

Ironically, like 95% of this board didn’t want to tank for Tatum cause he reminded people too much of Melo

But yeah. Most of these high draft picks or young stars still haven’t won schit and a lot of them are still on losing teams. There really hasn’t been any “franchise” changing talents that turned their losing teams into big winning ones. Wouldn’t be surprised at all if they end up switching teams.

Look how long it took Jordan to win. Just because they don’t have a chip yet doesn’t mean it’s pointless to have them. We could try to trade for one if they asked out, but we don’t have the assets to land someone like Tatum, Luka, or Mitchell. By the time these guys even asked for a trade and we could afford it, it’ll be like when we traded for all the rest... when they’re old and past their prime.

No I’m not saying it’s pointless to have them. I’d kill to have Tatum, you know that. But you never know someone might just ask out.

It’s sorta why I want Lavine. He may not exactly be on those player’s levels but I think he can reach there under Thibs imo.

True true. I’d take LaVine for sure, but the way he’s playing, it’d cost us our pick or two.

Reason why I’m so salty is because 1. I know we aren’t winning a title so why bother. 2. We choose the very draft with serious talent at the top, to try to compete for the 8th seed. It’s such a Knick thing to do. I’ve only wanted to tank properly for a good 3 year stretch but we don’t even do that right, and keep landing outside the top talent (like with Frank & Knox).

I know it’s important to get the young guys playoff experience, I just wish we did it when we had our foundation built first... like the Celtics with Tatum and Brown (then trading for Kyrie or signing Kemba), Suns with Booker and Ayton (then getting Cp3), etc.

[spree8]

Look how long it took Jordan to win. Just because they don’t have a chip yet doesn’t mean it’s pointless to have them. We could try to trade for one if they asked out, but we don’t have the assets to land someone like Tatum, Luka, or Mitchell. By the time these guys even asked for a trade and we could afford it, it’ll be like when we traded for all the rest... when they’re old and past their prime.

No I’m not saying it’s pointless to have them. I’d kill to have Tatum, you know that. But you never know someone might just ask out.

It’s sorta why I want Lavine. He may not exactly be on those player’s levels but I think he can reach there under Thibs imo.

not all of those guys are gonna win. everyone missed my original point. only a few guys win all the championships. do people think tatum, luka, mitchell, jokic, embiid, giannis, booker, etc are all gonna win ? no way. most of them will never. it doesn't matter if you draft your star or sign him, outside of the top 2 or 3 guys, everyone else will mostly fail.

I think once Lebron is outta the league, it’ll open up and be anyone’s game.

[DaGawd]

One interesting thing so far in the Randle interview with JJ Reddick is that Worldwide Wes asked Randle what type of coach does he need to take another leap and Randle said he wants someone who can hold him accountable, which is basically Thibs. Also the fact that Wes is even asking Randle for input on coaches, it just indicates they have long term plans with him.

That stuck out to me also. WWW isn’t asking Randle what he needs to succeed if the organization doesn’t plan on keeping him around long term

[prophet_of_rage]

Yup.. and further more most of these guys didn’t win with only the team that drafted them..they switch situations at some point. If the Knicks start committing to building solid teams that can lead to attracting on of these mythical creatures to lead us to the promise land

Ehhh, technically, a lot of them are tied to drafted superstars...


2008: Pierce (drafted by BOS and why they were able to trade for KG and Allen)
2009: Kobe (drafted) vs Howard (drafted)
2010: Kobe (drafted)
2011: Dirk (drafted)
2012: Lebron & Wade (Wade drafted and the reason why Lebron came to Miami)- vs KD & WB & Harden (all drafted by OKC)
2013: Lebron & Wade (Wade drafted)
2014: Duncan & Kawhi (both drafted)
2015: Curry, Klay, Draymond (all drafted)
2016: Lebron & Kyrie (both drafted/Lebron came back to the team that drafted him)
2017: Curry, Klay, Dray (drafted) & KD (FA)
2018: Curry, Klay, Dray (drafted) & KD (FA)
2019: Kawhi (acquired for their franchise guy they drafted in the top of the draft) & Siakam (drafted)
2020: Lebron & AD (FA & trade)

Multi-time champs prior to this..

MJ & Pippen drafted
Bird & McHale drafted
Magic & Worthy drafted
Olajuwon drafted
Duncan & DRob drafted

Finals loss:

Shaq & Penny drafted
Stockton & Malone drafted
Payton & Kemp drafted
Ewing drafted



I’ll forever fight the notion that the draft is some crap shoot that’s not worth trying to build your franchise thru. Look at all the top teams or superstars today...

Celtics: Tatum & Brown drafted
Jazz: Mitchell & Gobert drafted
Sixers: Simmons & Embiid drafted
Bucks: Giannis drafted
Warriors: Steph, Klay, Dray, Wiseman drafted
Nuggz: Jokic, Murray drafted
Mavs: Luka drafted
Blazers: Dame & CJ drafted
Suns: Booker, Ayton drafted
Hawks: Trae drafted
Grizzlies: Morant drafted
Pels: Zion drafted
Raps: Siakam drafted
Wiz: Beal drafted
Heat: Bam drafted


We don’t really have anyone on these guys’ level that have been drafted. We need one and will likely only be able to obtain one thru the draft. We could trade for one, but look what happened last time we did that (Melo)... we’ll have to gut our whole team which will likely make us a treadmill squad again. Free agency.. there’s nobody left for a few years.



I’m making peace with the fact that our picks this year won’t be at the top of the draft like at least ours should’ve been, but we need to at least keep them and try to hit on them like Spurs and Bucks did with Kawhi & Giannis later on in the draft.

But yea, Randle could be a #2 and RJ a #3... we just need that #1.

There is nothing special about drafting a star vs getting one vs. trade/signing other than asset allocation and Bird Rights.

Randle is much closer to a drafted player because we didn't trade for him directly, he's on a pretty cheap deal for his level of production, and we will have his full Bird Rights in 2022.

There would be no difference if we drafted him.

And Kobe wasn't a drafted star. Neither was Shaq on those Lakers team. One was traded for and one was a free agent signing.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

[god shammgod]

No I’m not saying it’s pointless to have them. I’d kill to have Tatum, you know that. But you never know someone might just ask out.

It’s sorta why I want Lavine. He may not exactly be on those player’s levels but I think he can reach there under Thibs imo.

not all of those guys are gonna win. everyone missed my original point. only a few guys win all the championships. do people think tatum, luka, mitchell, jokic, embiid, giannis, booker, etc are all gonna win ? no way. most of them will never. it doesn't matter if you draft your star or sign him, outside of the top 2 or 3 guys, everyone else will mostly fail.

I think once Lebron is outta the league, it’ll open up and be anyone’s game.

people thought that after jordan, then there was a duncan and a kobe and a bron. the 10 years before jordan, outisde of the one year dr j won, magic won 5, bird won 3 and isiah won 2. the league hasn't been open for a long time.

[3toheadmelo]

Look how long it took Jordan to win. Just because they don’t have a chip yet doesn’t mean it’s pointless to have them. We could try to trade for one if they asked out, but we don’t have the assets to land someone like Tatum, Luka, or Mitchell. By the time these guys even asked for a trade and we could afford it, it’ll be like when we traded for all the rest... when they’re old and past their prime.

No I’m not saying it’s pointless to have them. I’d kill to have Tatum, you know that. But you never know someone might just ask out.

It’s sorta why I want Lavine. He may not exactly be on those player’s levels but I think he can reach there under Thibs imo.

True true. I’d take LaVine for sure, but the way he’s playing, it’d cost us our pick or two.

Reason why I’m so salty is because 1. I know we aren’t winning a title so why bother. 2. We choose the very draft with serious talent at the top, to try to compete for the 8th seed. It’s such a Knick thing to do. I’ve only wanted to tank properly for a good 3 year stretch but we don’t even do that right, and keep landing outside the top talent (like with Frank & Knox).

I know it’s important to get the young guys playoff experience, I just wish we did it when we had our foundation built first... like the Celtics with Tatum and Brown (then trading for Kyrie or signing Kemba), Suns with Booker and Ayton (then getting Cp3), etc.

I hear you. But it’s a process man. Teams don’t really go from bad teams to contenders overnight. Eventually we had to get better and start growing. So yeah, the timing isn’t that great considering the draft has some big time talent. But honestly, I feel pretty blessed we have a coach like Thibs. What he’s done for guys like Randle, RJ, Quickley, etc will pay off long term.

Since we probably won’t get one of the best players in this draft, might as well give up a pick or 2 for someone like Lavine. He’s easily on Booker’s level and probably better than him right now imo.

[nedleeds]

Ironically, like 95% of this board didn’t want to tank for Tatum cause he reminded people too much of Melo

But yeah. Most of these high draft picks or young stars still haven’t won schit and a lot of them are still on losing teams. There really hasn’t been any “franchise” changing talents that turned their losing teams into big winning ones. Wouldn’t be surprised at all if they end up switching teams.

Look how long it took Jordan to win. Just because they don’t have a chip yet doesn’t mean it’s pointless to have them. We could try to trade for one if they asked out, but we don’t have the assets to land someone like Tatum, Luka, or Mitchell. By the time these guys even asked for a trade and we could afford it, it’ll be like when we traded for all the rest... when they’re old and past their prime.

No I’m not saying it’s pointless to have them. I’d kill to have Tatum, you know that. But you never know someone might just ask out.

It’s sorta why I want Lavine. He may not exactly be on those player’s levels but I think he can reach there under Thibs imo.

LaVine with league average defense would be All NBA unless his athleticism just falls off a cliff. There's no lateral quickness, strength or conditioning reason why LaVine can't play average defense. Same could be said for like Booker as well.

[3toheadmelo]

One interesting thing so far in the Randle interview with JJ Reddick is that Worldwide Wes asked Randle what type of coach does he need to take another leap and Randle said he wants someone who can hold him accountable, which is basically Thibs. Also the fact that Wes is even asking Randle for input on coaches, it just indicates they have long term plans with him.

That stuck out to me also. WWW isn’t asking Randle what he needs to succeed if the organization doesn’t plan on keeping him around long term

Yeah. And the fact that they went after Kenny Payne... I bet Randle had to do a lot with that too. The fact that Randle even said the other day that he wants to be here long term, just speaks volumes. Seems like both sides want the same thing.

[WargamesX]

No I’m not saying it’s pointless to have them. I’d kill to have Tatum, you know that. But you never know someone might just ask out.

It’s sorta why I want Lavine. He may not exactly be on those player’s levels but I think he can reach there under Thibs imo.

True true. I’d take LaVine for sure, but the way he’s playing, it’d cost us our pick or two.

Reason why I’m so salty is because 1. I know we aren’t winning a title so why bother. 2. We choose the very draft with serious talent at the top, to try to compete for the 8th seed. It’s such a Knick thing to do. I’ve only wanted to tank properly for a good 3 year stretch but we don’t even do that right, and keep landing outside the top talent (like with Frank & Knox).

I know it’s important to get the young guys playoff experience, I just wish we did it when we had our foundation built first... like the Celtics with Tatum and Brown (then trading for Kyrie or signing Kemba), Suns with Booker and Ayton (then getting Cp3), etc.

I hear you. But it’s a process man. Teams don’t really go from bad teams to contenders overnight. Eventually we had to get better and start growing. So yeah, the timing isn’t that great considering the draft has some big time talent. But honestly, I feel pretty blessed we have a coach like Thibs. What he’s done for guys like Randle, RJ, Quickley, etc will pay off long term.

Since we probably won’t get one of the best players in this draft, might as well give up a pick or 2 for someone like Lavine. He’s easily on Booker’s level and probably better than him right now imo.

The timing is actually horrible, but I still hope Leon has that talk to Thibs and they play the kids more ....

[DaGawd]

One interesting thing so far in the Randle interview with JJ Reddick is that Worldwide Wes asked Randle what type of coach does he need to take another leap and Randle said he wants someone who can hold him accountable, which is basically Thibs. Also the fact that Wes is even asking Randle for input on coaches, it just indicates they have long term plans with him.

That stuck out to me also. WWW isn’t asking Randle what he needs to succeed if the organization doesn’t plan on keeping him around long term

Yeah. And the fact that they went after Kenny Payne... I bet Randle had to do a lot with that too. The fact that Randle even said the other day that he wants to be here long term, just speaks volumes. Seems like both sides want the same thing.

Were essentially married to Randle lol

[Richard4444]

Ehhh, technically, a lot of them are tied to drafted superstars...


2008: Pierce (drafted by BOS and why they were able to trade for KG and Allen)
2009: Kobe (drafted) vs Howard (drafted)
2010: Kobe (drafted)
2011: Dirk (drafted)
2012: Lebron & Wade (Wade drafted and the reason why Lebron came to Miami)- vs KD & WB & Harden (all drafted by OKC)
2013: Lebron & Wade (Wade drafted)
2014: Duncan & Kawhi (both drafted)
2015: Curry, Klay, Draymond (all drafted)
2016: Lebron & Kyrie (both drafted/Lebron came back to the team that drafted him)
2017: Curry, Klay, Dray (drafted) & KD (FA)
2018: Curry, Klay, Dray (drafted) & KD (FA)
2019: Kawhi (acquired for their franchise guy they drafted in the top of the draft) & Siakam (drafted)
2020: Lebron & AD (FA & trade)

Multi-time champs prior to this..

MJ & Pippen drafted
Bird & McHale drafted
Magic & Worthy drafted
Olajuwon drafted
Duncan & DRob drafted

Finals loss:

Shaq & Penny drafted
Stockton & Malone drafted
Payton & Kemp drafted
Ewing drafted



I’ll forever fight the notion that the draft is some crap shoot that’s not worth trying to build your franchise thru. Look at all the top teams or superstars today...

Celtics: Tatum & Brown drafted
Jazz: Mitchell & Gobert drafted
Sixers: Simmons & Embiid drafted
Bucks: Giannis drafted
Warriors: Steph, Klay, Dray, Wiseman drafted
Nuggz: Jokic, Murray drafted
Mavs: Luka drafted
Blazers: Dame & CJ drafted
Suns: Booker, Ayton drafted
Hawks: Trae drafted
Grizzlies: Morant drafted
Pels: Zion drafted
Raps: Siakam drafted
Wiz: Beal drafted
Heat: Bam drafted


We don’t really have anyone on these guys’ level that have been drafted. We need one and will likely only be able to obtain one thru the draft. We could trade for one, but look what happened last time we did that (Melo)... we’ll have to gut our whole team which will likely make us a treadmill squad again. Free agency.. there’s nobody left for a few years.



I’m making peace with the fact that our picks this year won’t be at the top of the draft like at least ours should’ve been, but we need to at least keep them and try to hit on them like Spurs and Bucks did with Kawhi & Giannis later on in the draft.

But yea, Randle could be a #2 and RJ a #3... we just need that #1.

Your list of players:
Celtics: Tatum (3) & Brown (2) drafted
Jazz: Mitchell (13) & Gobert (27) drafted
Sixers: Simmons (1) & Embiid (3) drafted
Bucks: Giannis (15) drafted
Warriors: Steph (7), Klay (11), Dray (35), Wiseman (2) drafted
Nuggz: Jokic (41), Murray (7) drafted
Mavs: Luka (3) drafted
Blazers: Dame (6) & CJ (10) drafted
Suns: Booker, (13) Ayton (1) drafted
Hawks: Trae (5) drafted
Grizzlies: Morant (2) drafted
Pels: Zion (1) drafted
Raps: Siakam (27) drafted
Wiz: Beal (3) drafted
Heat: Bam (14) drafted


The draft is indeed a crapshoot outside the Top 3 players:

Picks 1-3 = 10 stars
Picks 4-6 = 2 stars
Picks 7-9 = 2 stars
Picks 10-12 = 2 stars
Picks 13-15 = 4 stars
Picks 28-30 = 2 stars
Picks 33-35 = 1 star
Picks 40-42 = 1 star

So 20 out of 24 stars were taken by teams who didn’t make the playoffs. My point exactly.

Check the history books...

Jordan- 3rd
Kareem- 1st
Lebron- 1st
Shaq- 1st
Duncan- 1st
Dream- 1st
Wilt- 1st
Russell- 2nd
Magic- 1st
Kobe- 13th (high school)
Bird- 6th
Oscar- 1st
DRob- 1st
Isiah- 2nd
McHale- 3rd
Dirk- 9th
Scottie- 5th
Curry- 7th
West- 2nd
Garnett- 5th
Durant- 2nd
Wade- 5th
Cp3- 4th
Kidd- 2nd
Payton- 2nd
Frazier- 5th
Ewing- 1st
Mailman- 13th
Barkley- 5th
Dr J- 12th
Drexler- 14th
Baylor- 1st
Iverson- 1st
Vince- 5th
Dominique- 3rd
Worthy- 1st
Barry- 2nd
Hondo- 7th
Pierce- 10th
Webber- 1st
Allen- 5th
Penny- 3rd
Amare- 9th
Dwight- 1st
McGrady- 9th
Melo- 3rd
KJ- 7th
GHill- 3rd
Sheed- 4th
Pau- 3rd
Reggie- 11th
Klay- 11th

I don't like to use examples from players drafted ages ago. The style of BBall played was different. The level of information about the draft players was different.

Today, only the Top3 pick you can say have greater odds to become a true NBA star. Maybe if the draft is loaded, you can up to the Top 5 (like 2018 draft).

From the 4th to the 15th pick, the odds to become a star are usually about the same.

[3toheadmelo]

Look how long it took Jordan to win. Just because they don’t have a chip yet doesn’t mean it’s pointless to have them. We could try to trade for one if they asked out, but we don’t have the assets to land someone like Tatum, Luka, or Mitchell. By the time these guys even asked for a trade and we could afford it, it’ll be like when we traded for all the rest... when they’re old and past their prime.

No I’m not saying it’s pointless to have them. I’d kill to have Tatum, you know that. But you never know someone might just ask out.

It’s sorta why I want Lavine. He may not exactly be on those player’s levels but I think he can reach there under Thibs imo.

LaVine with league average defense would be All NBA unless his athleticism just falls off a cliff. There's no lateral quickness, strength or conditioning reason why LaVine can't play average defense. Same could be said for like Booker as well.

Lavine actually tries on defense too... he just gets lost so much times off the ball. I’d say that’s most likely due to coaching. Sorta like Randle last season.

[3toheadmelo]

That stuck out to me also. WWW isn’t asking Randle what he needs to succeed if the organization doesn’t plan on keeping him around long term

Yeah. And the fact that they went after Kenny Payne... I bet Randle had to do a lot with that too. The fact that Randle even said the other day that he wants to be here long term, just speaks volumes. Seems like both sides want the same thing.

Were essentially married to Randle lol

No cap

[spree8]

Ehhh, technically, a lot of them are tied to drafted superstars...


2008: Pierce (drafted by BOS and why they were able to trade for KG and Allen)
2009: Kobe (drafted) vs Howard (drafted)
2010: Kobe (drafted)
2011: Dirk (drafted)
2012: Lebron & Wade (Wade drafted and the reason why Lebron came to Miami)- vs KD & WB & Harden (all drafted by OKC)
2013: Lebron & Wade (Wade drafted)
2014: Duncan & Kawhi (both drafted)
2015: Curry, Klay, Draymond (all drafted)
2016: Lebron & Kyrie (both drafted/Lebron came back to the team that drafted him)
2017: Curry, Klay, Dray (drafted) & KD (FA)
2018: Curry, Klay, Dray (drafted) & KD (FA)
2019: Kawhi (acquired for their franchise guy they drafted in the top of the draft) & Siakam (drafted)
2020: Lebron & AD (FA & trade)

Multi-time champs prior to this..

MJ & Pippen drafted
Bird & McHale drafted
Magic & Worthy drafted
Olajuwon drafted
Duncan & DRob drafted

Finals loss:

Shaq & Penny drafted
Stockton & Malone drafted
Payton & Kemp drafted
Ewing drafted



I’ll forever fight the notion that the draft is some crap shoot that’s not worth trying to build your franchise thru. Look at all the top teams or superstars today...

Celtics: Tatum & Brown drafted
Jazz: Mitchell & Gobert drafted
Sixers: Simmons & Embiid drafted
Bucks: Giannis drafted
Warriors: Steph, Klay, Dray, Wiseman drafted
Nuggz: Jokic, Murray drafted
Mavs: Luka drafted
Blazers: Dame & CJ drafted
Suns: Booker, Ayton drafted
Hawks: Trae drafted
Grizzlies: Morant drafted
Pels: Zion drafted
Raps: Siakam drafted
Wiz: Beal drafted
Heat: Bam drafted


We don’t really have anyone on these guys’ level that have been drafted. We need one and will likely only be able to obtain one thru the draft. We could trade for one, but look what happened last time we did that (Melo)... we’ll have to gut our whole team which will likely make us a treadmill squad again. Free agency.. there’s nobody left for a few years.



I’m making peace with the fact that our picks this year won’t be at the top of the draft like at least ours should’ve been, but we need to at least keep them and try to hit on them like Spurs and Bucks did with Kawhi & Giannis later on in the draft.

But yea, Randle could be a #2 and RJ a #3... we just need that #1.

There is nothing special about drafting a star vs getting one vs. trade/signing other than asset allocation and Bird Rights.

Randle is much closer to a drafted player because we didn't trade for him directly, he's on a pretty cheap deal for his level of production, and we will have his full Bird Rights in 2022.

There would be no difference if we drafted him.

And Kobe wasn't a drafted star. Neither was Shaq on those Lakers team. One was traded for and one was a free agent signing.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

If you trade for a pick on draft night, you drafted that player. Kobe was absolutely drafted by the Lakers. And I didn’t mentioned Shaq with Kobe... just Kobe winning on his own.

[3toheadmelo]

True true. I’d take LaVine for sure, but the way he’s playing, it’d cost us our pick or two.

Reason why I’m so salty is because 1. I know we aren’t winning a title so why bother. 2. We choose the very draft with serious talent at the top, to try to compete for the 8th seed. It’s such a Knick thing to do. I’ve only wanted to tank properly for a good 3 year stretch but we don’t even do that right, and keep landing outside the top talent (like with Frank & Knox).

I know it’s important to get the young guys playoff experience, I just wish we did it when we had our foundation built first... like the Celtics with Tatum and Brown (then trading for Kyrie or signing Kemba), Suns with Booker and Ayton (then getting Cp3), etc.

I hear you. But it’s a process man. Teams don’t really go from bad teams to contenders overnight. Eventually we had to get better and start growing. So yeah, the timing isn’t that great considering the draft has some big time talent. But honestly, I feel pretty blessed we have a coach like Thibs. What he’s done for guys like Randle, RJ, Quickley, etc will pay off long term.

Since we probably won’t get one of the best players in this draft, might as well give up a pick or 2 for someone like Lavine. He’s easily on Booker’s level and probably better than him right now imo.

The timing is actually horrible, but I still hope Leon has that talk to Thibs and they play the kids more ....

The timing sucks... but you have to remember that we’re pretty much winning games cause our youth is developing under Thibs. So how upset can you really be? It is what it is at this point. At least we’re developing players for once. When was the last time you can say that lol

[spree8]

Your list of players:
Celtics: Tatum (3) & Brown (2) drafted
Jazz: Mitchell (13) & Gobert (27) drafted
Sixers: Simmons (1) & Embiid (3) drafted
Bucks: Giannis (15) drafted
Warriors: Steph (7), Klay (11), Dray (35), Wiseman (2) drafted
Nuggz: Jokic (41), Murray (7) drafted
Mavs: Luka (3) drafted
Blazers: Dame (6) & CJ (10) drafted
Suns: Booker, (13) Ayton (1) drafted
Hawks: Trae (5) drafted
Grizzlies: Morant (2) drafted
Pels: Zion (1) drafted
Raps: Siakam (27) drafted
Wiz: Beal (3) drafted
Heat: Bam (14) drafted


The draft is indeed a crapshoot outside the Top 3 players:

Picks 1-3 = 10 stars
Picks 4-6 = 2 stars
Picks 7-9 = 2 stars
Picks 10-12 = 2 stars
Picks 13-15 = 4 stars
Picks 28-30 = 2 stars
Picks 33-35 = 1 star
Picks 40-42 = 1 star

So 20 out of 24 stars were taken by teams who didn’t make the playoffs. My point exactly.

Check the history books...

Jordan- 3rd
Kareem- 1st
Lebron- 1st
Shaq- 1st
Duncan- 1st
Dream- 1st
Wilt- 1st
Russell- 2nd
Magic- 1st
Kobe- 13th (high school)
Bird- 6th
Oscar- 1st
DRob- 1st
Isiah- 2nd
McHale- 3rd
Dirk- 9th
Scottie- 5th
Curry- 7th
West- 2nd
Garnett- 5th
Durant- 2nd
Wade- 5th
Cp3- 4th
Kidd- 2nd
Payton- 2nd
Frazier- 5th
Ewing- 1st
Mailman- 13th
Barkley- 5th
Dr J- 12th
Drexler- 14th
Baylor- 1st
Iverson- 1st
Vince- 5th
Dominique- 3rd
Worthy- 1st
Barry- 2nd
Hondo- 7th
Pierce- 10th
Webber- 1st
Allen- 5th
Penny- 3rd
Amare- 9th
Dwight- 1st
McGrady- 9th
Melo- 3rd
KJ- 7th
GHill- 3rd
Sheed- 4th
Pau- 3rd
Reggie- 11th
Klay- 11th

I don't like to use examples from players drafted ages ago. The style of BBall played was different. The level of information about the draft players was different.

Today, only the Top3 pick you can say have greater odds to become a true NBA star. Maybe if the draft is loaded, you can up to the Top 5 (like 2018 draft).

From the 4th to the 15th pick, the odds to become a star are usually about the same.

Nothing about the point is different tho. The style of play being different means nothing either. I’m not sure how you can argue the facts. Information about players were different how? They had workouts and scouting the same as we do now. I don’t get it. Seems you’re just trying to dismiss the facts.

[DaGawd]

I hear you. But it’s a process man. Teams don’t really go from bad teams to contenders overnight. Eventually we had to get better and start growing. So yeah, the timing isn’t that great considering the draft has some big time talent. But honestly, I feel pretty blessed we have a coach like Thibs. What he’s done for guys like Randle, RJ, Quickley, etc will pay off long term.

Since we probably won’t get one of the best players in this draft, might as well give up a pick or 2 for someone like Lavine. He’s easily on Booker’s level and probably better than him right now imo.

The timing is actually horrible, but I still hope Leon has that talk to Thibs and they play the kids more ....

The timing sucks... but you have to remember that we’re pretty much winning games cause our youth is developing under Thibs. So how upset can you really be? It is what it is at this point. At least we’re developing players for once. When was the last time you can say that lol

People are always gonna feel the timing sucks. Except for maybe last year. Personally this draft is kind of overrated to me it terms of how deep people are claiming it is with FRANCHISE level talent. I see MAYBE 2 or 3 personally and a lot of very good players maybe all stars but not franchise talents. Is it really worth tanking for the minimal odds at those 2 or 3 players over developing the youth we already have and trying to win games?