Julius Randle IS a 'cornerstone' player

[blueNorange]

sorry if posted already(jk) but randle was on jj redick's podcast.

Watch on YouTube

[prophet_of_rage]

There is nothing special about drafting a star vs getting one vs. trade/signing other than asset allocation and Bird Rights.

Randle is much closer to a drafted player because we didn't trade for him directly, he's on a pretty cheap deal for his level of production, and we will have his full Bird Rights in 2022.

There would be no difference if we drafted him.

And Kobe wasn't a drafted star. Neither was Shaq on those Lakers team. One was traded for and one was a free agent signing.

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If you trade for a pick on draft night, you drafted that player. Kobe was absolutely drafted by the Lakers. And I didn’t mentioned Shaq with Kobe... just Kobe winning on his own.

But Kobe had Pau who was traded for and the Lakers still had to get Charlotte to agree to move the pick and take Divac. So ot cost them pieces to get Kobe so it isn't the same as a draft with your own pick.

Who knows maybe RJ becomes our guy. But with few exceptions whichever team has one of the top 5 players no matter how acquired will win.

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[Jalen Bluntson]

Dude is having a great season and... made improvements to his game. What more do you want for a 26yr old making 18mil? If he plays this way all year... you pick up his option. Any trade... would have to be a huge haul. I don't see any team going all in on Julius. He's here. He wants to be here. He's leaving it all on the court for us. I'm in for the ride with this dude. Total 180 from this offseason.

Randle for Batum plus picks!!!

Lol I was one of those Randle for Batum +picks guys. But to be fair, the dude bounced back big time this year because of how bad he played last year... he said he felt he let the team down.

Yeah. I was all about dumping him for a can of cheez-whiz and some crackers! Huge improvement has changed that.

[prophet_of_rage]

I just don't get the appeal of always going to the lottery.

20 -- Edwards
19 -- Williamson
18 -- Ayton
17 -- Fultz
16 -- Simmons
15 -- KAT
14 -- Wiggins
13 -- Bennett
12 -- Davis
11 -- Irving
10 -- Wall
09 -- Griffin
08 -- Rose
07 -- Oden
06 -- Bargnani
05 -- Bogut
04 -- Howard
03 -- James
02 -- Ming
01 -- Martin
00 -- Brown
99 -- Brand
98 -- Olowokandi

Look at this list and ask youeself how many franchise changers there are and why it is so important to tank.

Only 5 won a ring and 3 of them teamed with Lebron tp do it. Bogut the only one who didn't teamed with Steph.

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[DOT]

That was two weeks ago. Like 4 games ago and it sounds like after Orlando he is about to go back

Actually Payton has had ALOT to do with our position as a current playoff team, same with Bullock. Bullock's defense is reknown and Payton has been taking his game to a new level.

It's just the haters are just going to continue to hate blindly.

Payton's career averages:

11.1/6.4/4.4 on 45/29/63 splits, .495 TS

Payton this year:
12.2/3.6/3.8 on 44/25/72 splits, .484 TS

So he's scoring 1 more PPG than his career average on slightly worse efficiency while nearly halving his apg. I don't really consider that "taking his game to a new level" but if you only care about free throw%, sure, I guess

And considering we're a -1.9 with Payton on and a +2.5 with him off per100, he is right about Payton having a lot (or ALOT) to do with our current position. Being that without him, we'd be in a much better position in the standings.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Actually Payton has had ALOT to do with our position as a current playoff team, same with Bullock. Bullock's defense is reknown and Payton has been taking his game to a new level.

It's just the haters are just going to continue to hate blindly.

Payton's career averages:

11.1/6.4/4.4 on 45/29/63 splits, .495 TS

Payton this year:
12.2/3.6/3.8 on 44/25/72 splits, .484 TS

So he's scoring 1 more PPG than his career average on slightly worse efficiency while nearly halving his apg. I don't really consider that "taking his game to a new level" but if you only care about free throw%, sure, I guess

And considering we're a -1.9 with Payton on and a +2.5 with him off per100, he is right about Payton having a lot (or ALOT) to do with our current position. Being that without him, we'd be in a much better position in the standings.

It makes the case for Randle all that more impressive.

[DOT]

Payton's career averages:

11.1/6.4/4.4 on 45/29/63 splits, .495 TS

Payton this year:
12.2/3.6/3.8 on 44/25/72 splits, .484 TS

So he's scoring 1 more PPG than his career average on slightly worse efficiency while nearly halving his apg. I don't really consider that "taking his game to a new level" but if you only care about free throw%, sure, I guess

And considering we're a -1.9 with Payton on and a +2.5 with him off per100, he is right about Payton having a lot (or ALOT) to do with our current position. Being that without him, we'd be in a much better position in the standings.

It makes the case for Randle all that more impressive.

Randle when Payton is on court:

106.4 Ortg (56.5 TS%)
109.5 Drtg
-3.1 Netrtg

Randle when Payton is off the court:

109.5 Ortg (64.3 TS%)
95.9 Drtg
+13.7 Netrtg

What that means is, with both on court, we have the 4th worst offense and 8th best defense in the league, but we're being outscored by 3.1 points per 100 possessions and Randle is at exactly league average efficiency

When Randle is on court without Payton, we have the 9th worst offense (so not a ton better), but the best defense in the league by a stupid amount (Lakers are best with 105.5, but the difference between us with Randle no Payton and them is the same as the difference between them and the Blazers, who are 3rd worst in the league), and Randle ascends to elite level efficiency

Numbers like that are insane and wouldn't hold for an entire season played without Elf, but it's clear he's our ball and chain. And it's not even a situation where we have no one else, this is just comparing when he's on for us and when he's off. This makes Randle look like a god damn MVP level player.

[DOT]

Also fun fact, the 04 Pistons had a 95.4 Drtg. Just for context.

[Fat Kat]

I just don't get the appeal of always going to the lottery.

20 -- Edwards
19 -- Williamson
18 -- Ayton
17 -- Fultz
16 -- Simmons
15 -- KAT
14 -- Wiggins
13 -- Bennett
12 -- Davis
11 -- Irving
10 -- Wall
09 -- Griffin
08 -- Rose
07 -- Oden
06 -- Bargnani
05 -- Bogut
04 -- Howard
03 -- James
02 -- Ming
01 -- Martin
00 -- Brown
99 -- Brand
98 -- Olowokandi

Look at this list and ask youeself how many franchise changers there are and why it is so important to tank.

Only 5 won a ring and 3 of them teamed with Lebron tp do it. Bogut the only one who didn't teamed with Steph.

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You’re talking to folks that probably spend a significant amount of money on scratchy lottery tickets. It’s a mentality. The currency of hope. It keeps them going

[3toheadmelo]

Payton's career averages:

11.1/6.4/4.4 on 45/29/63 splits, .495 TS

Payton this year:
12.2/3.6/3.8 on 44/25/72 splits, .484 TS

So he's scoring 1 more PPG than his career average on slightly worse efficiency while nearly halving his apg. I don't really consider that "taking his game to a new level" but if you only care about free throw%, sure, I guess

And considering we're a -1.9 with Payton on and a +2.5 with him off per100, he is right about Payton having a lot (or ALOT) to do with our current position. Being that without him, we'd be in a much better position in the standings.

It makes the case for Randle all that more impressive.

Randle when Payton is on court:

106.4 Ortg (56.5 TS%)
109.5 Drtg
-3.1 Netrtg

Randle when Payton is off the court:

109.5 Ortg (64.3 TS%)
95.9 Drtg
+13.7 Netrtg

What that means is, with both on court, we have the 4th worst offense and 8th best defense in the league, but we're being outscored by 3.1 points per 100 possessions and Randle is at exactly league average efficiency

When Randle is on court without Payton, we have the 9th worst offense (so not a ton better), but the best defense in the league by a stupid amount (Lakers are best with 105.5, but the difference between us with Randle no Payton and them is the same as the difference between them and the Blazers, who are 3rd worst in the league), and Randle ascends to elite level efficiency

Numbers like that are insane and wouldn't hold for an entire season played without Elf, but it's clear he's our ball and chain. And it's not even a situation where we have no one else, this is just comparing when he's on for us and when he's off. This makes Randle look like a god damn MVP level player.

It’s pretty crazy what Randle is doing for us right now next to guys like Payton. On the podcast you brought up how our offensive rating would be dead last without Randle which is just nuts. This is the best season by a Knick since Melo in 2013 imo.

[nedleeds]

Is this a positive or negative thing for Randle? If he goes to another coach will he just be fat and doing spin moves to no where again?

Since when was Randle fat..? He has the reputation of being a hard worker and always came into camp in top notch shape. He just needed a coach to hold him accountable and push him harder... in other words the opposite of Fizdale.

Can we just do this to homeboy's keyboard?

Actually Payton has had ALOT to do with our position as a current playoff team

Let's do this to yours if this is your basketball insight. Lol.

[3toheadmelo]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

[Zenzibar]

Actually Payton has had ALOT to do with our position as a current playoff team, same with Bullock. Bullock's defense is reknown and Payton has been taking his game to a new level.

It's just the haters are just going to continue to hate blindly.

Payton's career averages:

11.1/6.4/4.4 on 45/29/63 splits, .495 TS

Payton this year:
12.2/3.6/3.8 on 44/25/72 splits, .484 TS

So he's scoring 1 more PPG than his career average on slightly worse efficiency while nearly halving his apg. I don't really consider that "taking his game to a new level" but if you only care about free throw%, sure, I guess

And considering we're a -1.9 with Payton on and a +2.5 with him off per100, he is right about Payton having a lot (or ALOT) to do with our current position. Being that without him, we'd be in a much better position in the standings.

I mean, you can look at all the stats, roll them up and then wipe an ass with it. You know why? Because unless you're just too harden a hater, it has to be dam obvious how much better Payton is playing in the last month or so.

Now go back to your drawing board and show us a graph from December until now and without all your "homework" and with just paying attention it'll be obvious that Payton is improving.

It'll show a graph of Payton's number finishing at the rim, defensive rating and 3pt shooting for the last 3 months.



Nevertheless, Payton is not a finished product yet and unless the team moves him in a couple of weeks, I anticipate him trending upward with this coaching staff.

[nedleeds]

Nevertheless, Payton is not a finished product yet and unless the team moves him in a couple of weeks, I anticipate him trending upward with this coaching staff.

Sigged. Dude is 27, played 400+ games, career worst everything. Dragging down 3-4 other players every game. Never guarded by opponents.

[spree8]

I just don't get the appeal of always going to the lottery.

20 -- Edwards
19 -- Williamson
18 -- Ayton
17 -- Fultz
16 -- Simmons
15 -- KAT
14 -- Wiggins
13 -- Bennett
12 -- Davis
11 -- Irving
10 -- Wall
09 -- Griffin
08 -- Rose
07 -- Oden
06 -- Bargnani
05 -- Bogut
04 -- Howard
03 -- James
02 -- Ming
01 -- Martin
00 -- Brown
99 -- Brand
98 -- Olowokandi

Look at this list and ask youeself how many franchise changers there are and why it is so important to tank.

Only 5 won a ring and 3 of them teamed with Lebron tp do it. Bogut the only one who didn't teamed with Steph.

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This is so disingenuous. Why are you only looking at the #1 pick?

[3toheadmelo]

Looks like we know who knicksfan63 is lol

[DOT]

Spoiler:

Payton's career averages:

11.1/6.4/4.4 on 45/29/63 splits, .495 TS

Payton this year:
12.2/3.6/3.8 on 44/25/72 splits, .484 TS

So he's scoring 1 more PPG than his career average on slightly worse efficiency while nearly halving his apg. I don't really consider that "taking his game to a new level" but if you only care about free throw%, sure, I guess

And considering we're a -1.9 with Payton on and a +2.5 with him off per100, he is right about Payton having a lot (or ALOT) to do with our current position. Being that without him, we'd be in a much better position in the standings.

I mean, you can look at all the stats, roll them up and then wipe an ass with it. You know why? Because unless you're just too harden a hater, it has to be dam obvious how much better Payton is playing in the last month or so.

Now go back to your drawing board and show us a graph from December until now and without all your "homework" and with just paying attention it'll be obvious that Payton is improving.

It'll show a graph of Payton's number finishing at the rim, defensive rating and 3pt shooting for the last 3 months.



Nevertheless, Payton is not a finished product yet and unless the team moves him in a couple of weeks, I anticipate him trending upward with this coaching staff

.

Ok

FG/3PT splits (and TS) by month:
December: 50/46 (.533)
January: 40/18 (.458)
February: 47/20 (.503)

Then since you specifically mentioned the last month or so, in the last month:
43/18 (.473). So actually, he's been playing worse on offense overall for the last month or so

Scoring around the rim by month:
December: 57.1
January: 46.6
February: 53.7

Last month: 50.0

Again with not really being better. And before you go "A-HA! He IS better in February than January" I'll point out league average around the rim is 65% so he's still absolute garbage comparatively. You're 0-2 so far, let's see if you can hit on at least one

DRTG by month:
December: 108.6
January: 108.6
February: 109.1

Last month overall: 111.2 (2nd worst on the team), with it being 103.5 with him off (lower numbers are better in this case, and 103.5 is better than when any other player is off the court)

And I believe that's strike 3. Technically, his finishing has gotten a little better, but it's still well below average, and considering that's his only positive, that's not good

The guy's 27 in a couple days. He's been virtually the same player since 2015 with no noticeable statistical improvements in any category. In fact, he's actually having a down year overall for him. He is not on the path to getting better, and before you bring up Randle, not only was he younger when he signed, but he had been consistently improving every year before then, while Elfrid has been in limbo since his age 22, maybe even age 21 year. It's genuinely fascinating to me that you want to die on Payton hill. Cause with just paying attention, it'll be obvious he's not improving and he sucks

If he were 22 and on his rookie contract doing this, you might be able to argue his case. But not for someone who's in his 7th year in the league who hasn't noticeably improved and has in fact regressed in some areas since his 2nd or 3rd year.

[3toheadmelo]

Read on Twitter

[prophet_of_rage]

I just don't get the appeal of always going to the lottery.

20 -- Edwards
19 -- Williamson
18 -- Ayton
17 -- Fultz
16 -- Simmons
15 -- KAT
14 -- Wiggins
13 -- Bennett
12 -- Davis
11 -- Irving
10 -- Wall
09 -- Griffin
08 -- Rose
07 -- Oden
06 -- Bargnani
05 -- Bogut
04 -- Howard
03 -- James
02 -- Ming
01 -- Martin
00 -- Brown
99 -- Brand
98 -- Olowokandi

Look at this list and ask youeself how many franchise changers there are and why it is so important to tank.

Only 5 won a ring and 3 of them teamed with Lebron tp do it. Bogut the only one who didn't teamed with Steph.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

This is so disingenuous. Why are you only looking at the #1 pick?

Because the 2 and 3 picks are worse

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[Zenzibar]

Spoiler:

Payton's career averages:

11.1/6.4/4.4 on 45/29/63 splits, .495 TS

Payton this year:
12.2/3.6/3.8 on 44/25/72 splits, .484 TS

So he's scoring 1 more PPG than his career average on slightly worse efficiency while nearly halving his apg. I don't really consider that "taking his game to a new level" but if you only care about free throw%, sure, I guess

And considering we're a -1.9 with Payton on and a +2.5 with him off per100, he is right about Payton having a lot (or ALOT) to do with our current position. Being that without him, we'd be in a much better position in the standings.

I mean, you can look at all the stats, roll them up and then wipe an ass with it. You know why? Because unless you're just too harden a hater, it has to be dam obvious how much better Payton is playing in the last month or so.

Now go back to your drawing board and show us a graph from December until now and without all your "homework" and with just paying attention it'll be obvious that Payton is improving.

It'll show a graph of Payton's number finishing at the rim, defensive rating and 3pt shooting for the last 3 months.



Nevertheless, Payton is not a finished product yet and unless the team moves him in a couple of weeks, I anticipate him trending upward with this coaching staff

.

Ok

FG/3PT splits (and TS) by month:
December: 50/46 (.533)
January: 40/18 (.458)
February: 47/20 (.503)

Then since you specifically mentioned the last month or so, in the last month:
43/18 (.473). So actually, he's been playing worse on offense overall for the last month or so

Scoring around the rim by month:
December: 57.1
January: 46.6
February: 53.7

Last month: 50.0

Again with not really being better. And before you go "A-HA! He IS better in February than January" I'll point out league average around the rim is 65% so he's still absolute garbage comparatively. You're 0-2 so far, let's see if you can hit on at least one

DRTG by month:
December: 108.6
January: 108.6
February: 109.1

Last month overall: 111.2 (2nd worst on the team), with it being 103.5 with him off (lower numbers are better in this case, and 103.5 is better than when any other player is off the court)

And I believe that's strike 3. Technically, his finishing has gotten a little better, but it's still well below average, and considering that's his only positive, that's not good

The guy's 27 in a couple days. He's been virtually the same player since 2015 with no noticeable statistical improvements in any category. In fact, he's actually having a down year overall for him. He is not on the path to getting better, and before you bring up Randle, not only was he younger when he signed, but he had been consistently improving every year before then, while Elfrid has been in limbo since his age 22, maybe even age 21 year. It's genuinely fascinating to me that you want to die on Payton hill. Cause with just paying attention, it'll be obvious he's not improving and he sucks

If he were 22 and on his rookie contract doing this, you might be able to argue his case. But not for someone who's in his 7th year in the league who hasn't noticeably improved and has in fact regressed in some areas since his 2nd or 3rd year.

Listen, we don't any membership to the Payton fan club. But it's really difficult for me not to notice that this dude is playing better. We're not saying all-star level or a leap like JRandle, but has been attacking and making.

On this site, it shows a more consistent higher shooting % this month, from the end of February, which is what I'm noticing. Without stats, without homework, just watching the game and hoping for contributions for wins.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/paytoel01/gamelog/2021/