Julius Randle IS a 'cornerstone' player

[Reign23]

I think it could be a good outcome if we end up in the 10th spot. If we are good, then we will win the play in games. If not, we will get the 8-9th lottery spot.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Did you just compare Randle to Tobias Harris

The Clippers were 30-25 and the 8th seed in the West when they traded Harris, who was averaging 21ppg, 8rpg, 3apg on 50/43/88.

Randle: 23 PPG, 11 RPG 5.5 APG
Tobias: 21 PPG. 8 RPG 2.7 APG

Randle’s superior playmaking makes him a much better player

Neither are great, that's the point. What happened to your moratorium?

[Gravy]

KP has missed a quarter of the season, the West is better, the Grizz are 6-7 vs the west and 7-5 vs the East despite the fact JA missed like a month. Those are just excuses.

I don't want to build around Randle, I'd lose faith in the front office if he's the player we're deciding to be a major piece of the core. It would be like the Clippers deciding to build around Tobias Harris rather than trading him, a smart front office will realize the guy isn't someone you make your number 1 or 2 guy.

Unless I'm mixing up the years the Clippers traded away Harris and still made the playoffs as the 8th seed. They didnt even tank, they knew they were going to sign Kawhi.

They didn't know they were getting Kawhi, they thought they were, but they didn't want to be locked into Tobias Harris regardless of what happened. They were the 8th seed when they traded Harris.

Everyone knew he was going there, they got rid of his salary and their young star player in SGA to get free agents. They were also playing older guys like Montrezl Harrell, Beverly, Lou Williams and Gallo 30 minutes a game.

[god shammgod]

even if you think it's smarter to trade randle and tank, it's very obvious they're not going to. you kind of have to just accept it.

[DaGawd]

Unless I'm mixing up the years the Clippers traded away Harris and still made the playoffs as the 8th seed. They didnt even tank, they knew they were going to sign Kawhi.

They didn't know they were getting Kawhi, they thought they were, but they didn't want to be locked into Tobias Harris regardless of what happened. They were the 8th seed when they traded Harris.

Everyone knew he was going there, they got rid of his salary and their young star player in SGA to get free agents. They were also playing older guys like Montrezl Harrell, Beverly, Lou Williams and Gallo 30 minutes a game.

Yeah it was all but written.. just like ppl knew KD was coming to NY.. just they got the team wrong with KD lol

[NoDopeOnSundays]

even if you think it's smarter to trade randle and tank, it's very obvious they're not going to. you kind of have to just accept it.

Mediocrity awaits.

If we make the playoffs and have to play the Nets, this board will be in shambles by the end of it too

[Chanel Bomber]

You don't need to be the worst team in the league to move up in the draft, the Hornets had the 9th worst record and drafted 3rd. We need at least one more quality young player, everyone keeps saying how bad this supporting cast is, and still wants to make the playoffs? Makes no sense.

How has the playoff experience helped the Magic? The Nets have 1 player left over from those playoff teams you're talking about, everyone else is gone. What KD/Kyrie free agency tandem are we going to sign in the next 5 years that will allow us to trade everything for a MVP? That situation is so far out from the norm it isn't even worth mentioning.

I generally share your fears but I must point out that a playoff appearance would probably be invaluable for Mitch, RJ and Quickley. We have a better young core than the Magic, whose "blue-chipper "recently tore his ACL and suffered a myriad of injuries. Let's hope their development doesn't stall like Gordon's though.

But there's an upside to having RJ and Mitch get a taste of playoff basketball as starters (and seeing Quickley only average 18 minutes a game lol).

I think making it to the playoffs as the 6-8 seed really doesn't help as much as people think, I could see if we were doing it off the back of all young players, but 2 of our starters are positions we will need to fill regardless of what happens. We're at a talent deficit and making the playoffs wont really help that much, look at all the guys who have developed so far without the playoffs, Randle hasn't been there yet and people want to build around him.

Just look at the last couple 8 seeds, the Magic, the Pistons the year before, the Wiz in 2017-2018, the Bulls in 2016-2017, there was no growth or forward momentum from any of these teams. Nobody remembers the Pistons core that was 22-25 years old, KCP, Tobias, Morris, Drummond and Jackson, they went 44-38, no forward progress at all.

Well, if Randle leads us to the playoffs, then it would defeat the argument that he's never been to the playoffs and thus isn't worth building around (if that's part of your argument).

RJ and Mitch have contributed heavily to our record. They've primarily been held back by the PG play (worst in the league or bottom five), as well their own limitations, but they have played a major part in our Long March to mediocrity. Quickley needs to play more, but I would argue that making this decision would have this team be even more competitive, hence more firmly in the playoff picture.

I am indeed however worried that RJ and Quickley's minutes have been steadily decreasing lately (obviously Mitch has been out), which means the veterans have had a bigger impact on the outcome of games. This trend, to me, is a far bigger issue than making the playoffs.

You're right that progress isn't always linear and that an early playoff appearance doesn't guarantee long-term success. I personally would've handled this past off-season very differently, although I do see the value of making the playoffs.

[3toheadmelo]

The Clippers were 30-25 and the 8th seed in the West when they traded Harris, who was averaging 21ppg, 8rpg, 3apg on 50/43/88.

Randle: 23 PPG, 11 RPG 5.5 APG
Tobias: 21 PPG. 8 RPG 2.7 APG

Randle’s superior playmaking makes him a much better player

Neither are great, that's the point. What happened to your moratorium?

The last player to average 20-10-5 on 40% from 3 and 80% from the line was the great Larry Bird.



There is a clause in the moratorium that allows me to come into your debates if you are spreading fake news about Randle!

[god shammgod]

even if you think it's smarter to trade randle and tank, it's very obvious they're not going to. you kind of have to just accept it.

Mediocrity awaits.

If we make the playoffs and have to play the Nets, this board will be in shambles by the end of it too

maybe. but it's hard to tell a franchise that hasn't been in the playoffs for 8 years to not care about it.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Randle: 23 PPG, 11 RPG 5.5 APG
Tobias: 21 PPG. 8 RPG 2.7 APG

Randle’s superior playmaking makes him a much better player

Neither are great, that's the point. What happened to your moratorium?

The last player to average 20-10-5 on 40% from 3 and 80% from the line was the great Larry Bird.



There is a clause in the moratorium that allows me to come into your debates if you are spreading fake news about Randle!

I know the easiest way to get you to follow your own moratorium. How much money do you think the all-star Julius who is the first player to average this arbitrary cutoff line stat should get? He's LeBron Lite according to someone else in this thread, and now I see the name Larry Bird, how much money we talking Melo?

[NoDopeOnSundays]

even if you think it's smarter to trade randle and tank, it's very obvious they're not going to. you kind of have to just accept it.

Mediocrity awaits.

If we make the playoffs and have to play the Nets, this board will be in shambles by the end of it too

maybe. but it's hard to tell a franchise that hasn't been in the playoffs for 8 years to not care about it.

What's one more year?

Nobody wants to see or hear this "Before shoot around Kyrie burning sage in the garden, as the Nets look to sweep the series vs their crosstown rivals! The Nets went up 3-0 after a 142-99 win"

I'm good man.

[3toheadmelo]

Neither are great, that's the point. What happened to your moratorium?

The last player to average 20-10-5 on 40% from 3 and 80% from the line was the great Larry Bird.



There is a clause in the moratorium that allows me to come into your debates if you are spreading fake news about Randle!

I know the easiest way to get you to follow your own moratorium. How much money do you think the all-star Julius who is the first player to average this arbitrary cutoff line stat should get? He's LeBron Lite according to someone else in this thread, and now I see the name Larry Bird, how much money we talking Melo?

Give him whatever he asks for

[NoDopeOnSundays]

The last player to average 20-10-5 on 40% from 3 and 80% from the line was the great Larry Bird.



There is a clause in the moratorium that allows me to come into your debates if you are spreading fake news about Randle!

I know the easiest way to get you to follow your own moratorium. How much money do you think the all-star Julius who is the first player to average this arbitrary cutoff line stat should get? He's LeBron Lite according to someone else in this thread, and now I see the name Larry Bird, how much money we talking Melo?

Give him whatever he asks for

I'll start following the Guangdong Southern Tigers if that happens, at least they know what they're doing.

[3toheadmelo]

I know the easiest way to get you to follow your own moratorium. How much money do you think the all-star Julius who is the first player to average this arbitrary cutoff line stat should get? He's LeBron Lite according to someone else in this thread, and now I see the name Larry Bird, how much money we talking Melo?

Give him whatever he asks for

I'll start following the Guangdong Southern Tigers if that happens, at least they know what they're doing.

This is me after you’re waiving the white flag after officially losing the Randle war

[NewKnicks]

You love a straw man argument

It isn't. You wanted my top 25 ... I wanted your potential ATGs in this draft class worth trading Randle.

That was the point of my statement that you waded into saying ... Rodman? What is the point of tanking now and giving away tslent for a crapshoot in the draft. The top 5 was no guarantee of a franxhise changer.

You said there possibly could be an ATG in this draft class. Name them. Shouldn't be hard.

I committed. You commit.

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You are asking me to back up a claim I didn’t make.

I didn’t say anyone in the 2021 draft is an all time great.

I didn’t say trade Randle.

Straw man argument.

My only point was that downplaying draft position is crazy b/c most of your all time greats are at the top. That’s where my top 25 comment came from.

I don’t fault ppl for wanting to be in that top 5 in a draft (I didn’t say this one) for that reason.

That’s it.

You’re arguing with so many ppl that you’re now just blending the other arguments into this. together.

I have to agree with dakomish. ESPECIALLY in the coming draft. At this point, there seems to be 5 potential franchise changers. If you don't get in that top 5, you could be missing out on a player that will change the trajectory of your franchise.

And for anyone to suggest that picks 6-15 are basically the same as 1-5 hasn't paid attention. The generational talent is almost always drafted in the top 5.

There's no need to produce a list with the Kawhi's, etc. Of course there are a lot of exceptions.

But if you're going to tank, you need to do it the right way and get in the top 3 (preferably).

[NewKnicks]

I'd say, on the whole, it pays to be in the top 5, but then you have to know what you are doing as a team, scouting wise, and also get lucky.

Being in the top 5 is always going to give you a better chance to find a future all time great, but of course, it doesn't guarantee you'll draft that player. I don't think that's even debatable (I know you're not saying it is).

[br7knicks]

I wonder if he gets allstar considerations

He definitely should. He's been playing great this season.

Other teams and analysts are noticing and talking about him - he was laughed at last season.

I'll bet money that he'll get some consideration, or votes, from those who round out the rest of the rosters

Oh for sure.
Coaches still have say no?

Same Way I feel about FVV. Deserving but who knows.

Last I knew, yes. We'll see

[NewKnicks]

Seems simple enough to me. I’m not even rooting for the tank (PTKLWTR) but the legends are mostly top 5 guys.

Make a list of all time greats 1-25 and you’re going to see 80% all top 5 picks. Maybe even higher.

Until you get to Pippen, Stockton, Malone, Rodman ... sure most of the all time greats go top 5 but they have to be all time greats.

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Incorrect

Spoiler:

Seems simple enough to me. I’m not even rooting for the tank (PTKLWTR) but the legends are mostly top 5 guys.

Make a list of all time greats 1-25 and you’re going to see 80% all top 5 picks. Maybe even higher.

Until you get to Pippen, Stockton, Malone, Rodman ... sure most of the all time greats go top 5 but they have to be all time greats.

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Here’s where I entered. There’s my original comment.

Show me how that equates to you saying I need to show who’s an all time great in this draft / I have to defend trading Randle

You are asking for things that have nothing to do what I said. My comment was strictly on downplaying draft position at all. It’s not about this draft or this year.

I asked to see your top 25 b/c you mentioned Rodman. It was literally just to see your list.

Should the best rebounder, possibly best defender of all-time, and 5 time championship winner not be considered? All time greats should not only be about scoring.

[NewKnicks]

I was just comparing Randles and Vucevics all star case. damn is this close, both players would deserve it, no doubt.

Randle: 36.7 min / 23.2 pts / 10.9 reb / 5.5 ast / 0.7 stl / 0.2 blk / 3.3 To and 48/40.7/80.2 splits
Vucevic: 33.6 min / 23.4 pts / 11.6 reb / 3.4 ast / 1.1 stl / 0.6 blk / 1.7 to and 47.6/41.4/81.6 splits

I think the I would give Vuc the nod with the slighest margin. We have a better record, but not by much and the injury luck couldn't be more separated.

And most on here would laugh at you. Even though you literally line them up, stat by stat.

[NewKnicks]

Randle gets the super max. End of story.

He will, whether that is good for the franchise or not. I'm not saying it's good OR bad, but that it will happen.

Those thinking Randle is going to give us some sort of 'discount' are fooling themselves. Just like all players, him and his agent will be pushing for maximum dollars.