Julius Randle IS a 'cornerstone' player

[NewKnicks]

Tank for eternity!

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Dudes are literally saying if you are not in the finals you should be tanking, no exaggerating

Mostly I'm saying 14-16 in a terrible conference isn't 'winning'. Maybe I'm nuts.

You're not nuts. It's just that the bar is so low around here, that because we compete most nights we're 'winning'.

I don't want to max out Randle, but it will happen, whether I like it or not.

In this coming draft, if we could get a 1-5 pick for Randle I'd do it in a heartbeat. But, the teams that will end up being 1-5 will not make that deal, because they know the players in this draft have a lot more upside than Randle does.

I know I'll probably get creamed for saying that. It is what it is. We're all entitled to our own opinions around here.

I'm okay with keeping Randle, but if we're able to get in the top 5 and get a player that is 6 years younger than Randle with more upside, I take it and run with it. The opposite is keeping Randle and maxing him out, and hoping he truly is a franchise player and will be a #1 or #2 on a championship team. He is not that player, but that will be the thought process if we max him out.

[NewKnicks]

Knicks being the 7th seed right now is why Randle is getting praised a lot by players, Thibs and the media. We were projected to only win like 17 games this season. The amount of carrying he’s doing on this roster is insane.

Do you think Randle is a #1 or #2 on a championship team? Because that's what we're going to pay him to be. Just curious what your stance is as far as where Randle stacks up moving forward..

[GEOLINK]

This aged extremely well

Watch on YouTube

[NewKnicks]

"Look at the impact on winning" - Thibs

... we're 14-16 in the awful East and haven't lost one player game to Covid this year. Is Thibs praising Randle or criticizing him?

Tou think we even have 14 wins without him? I wonder ehat Chanel has to say about this statement? Is Thibs as big a loser as Payton?

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I think it's a poor choice of words from Thibs there too.

I think all this talk of "winning" is the byproduct of low expectations when it comes to this franchise. The Knicks are so associated with losing that sub-50% mediocrity (the 14-16 record) is now being promoted as winning. I don't find it disingenuous as much as I consider it a subconscious bias. It still doesn't make it right, or accurate.

I think Randle has a legitimate claim to become an All-Star this year but "winning" is not some sort of separator.

I tried to say exactly this and was accused of not being a true Knick fan, and that I don't understand basketball.

14-16 is not a 'winning' team. What's funny is a lot of cats on here make fun of the Bulls, and try to say how much better this team is. Yet the Knicks are literally 1 GAME ABOVE THE BULLS. , with the Bulls having a very easy schedule coming up as well. My guess is they will overtake the Knicks in the standings by this time next week. And then everyone will still be saying the Bulls are a sh*t franchise and the Knicks are up and coming.

I only use the Bulls as a comparison because I live in Chicago, and follow them a lot. It's easy for me to make the comparisons between the two teams because I watch a lot of Bulls games too.

[Gravy]

Dudes are literally saying if you are not in the finals you should be tanking, no exaggerating

Mostly I'm saying 14-16 in a terrible conference isn't 'winning'. Maybe I'm nuts.

You're not nuts. It's just that the bar is so low around here, that because we compete most nights we're 'winning'.

I don't want to max out Randle, but it will happen, whether I like it or not.

In this coming draft, if we could get a 1-5 pick for Randle I'd do it in a heartbeat. But, the teams that will end up being 1-5 will not make that deal, because they know the players in this draft have a lot more upside than Randle does.

I know I'll probably get creamed for saying that. It is what it is. We're all entitled to our own opinions around here.

I'm okay with keeping Randle, but if we're able to get in the top 5 and get a player that is 6 years younger than Randle with more upside, I take it and run with it. The opposite is keeping Randle and maxing him out, and hoping he truly is a franchise player and will be a #1 or #2 on a championship team. He is not that player, but that will be the thought process if we max him out.

The teams that will end up getting the top 5 picks all have all star caliber players like Randle too, its not like those teams are tanking they just suck. And the new odds mean we cant even guarantee we would be in the top 5.

[NewKnicks]

I saw Nikola Vucevic mentioned in here, and I can't believe some of you don't see the parallels between Randle and him. The Magic looked like they were ready to move on from him, he was going into the last year of his deal and they drafted a young center to potentially groom for the future. Then Vucevic has a career year, they sign him to a 4 year $100 million, they glue their draft pick to the bench despite nice advanced stats, they go 42-40 and earn the right to lose 4-1 to the Raptors, then they go 33-40 and still make the playoffs because this is the East after all, and lose 4-1 to the Bucks.


Vucevic is a nice player, he'd be a great number 3 guy on the Raptors or Celtics, but you don't build around him. Randle could be a good number 3, or an excellent 6th man, you don't build around him as part of your core. There isn't a single contending team that would have Randle as part of their core, and we're about to build around him as though he's Embiid

It's a great comparison, but you'll get laughed at around here. People think Randle is the second coming, and that someone like Vuc is a scrub putting up numbers on a bad team.

[NewKnicks]

I saw Nikola Vucevic mentioned in here, and I can't believe some of you don't see the parallels between Randle and him. The Magic looked like they were ready to move on from him, he was going into the last year of his deal and they drafted a young center to potentially groom for the future. Then Vucevic has a career year, they sign him to a 4 year $100 million, they glue their draft pick to the bench despite nice advanced stats, they go 42-40 and earn the right to lose 4-1 to the Raptors, then they go 33-40 and still make the playoffs because this is the East after all, and lose 4-1 to the Bucks.


Vucevic is a nice player, he'd be a great number 3 guy on the Raptors or Celtics, but you don't build around him. Randle could be a good number 3, or an excellent 6th man, you don't build around him as part of your core. There isn't a single contending team that would have Randle as part of their core, and we're about to build around him as though he's Embiid

There are some parallels for sure. But the one thing we have over Orlando which is a pretty big advantage is the market. Free agents don’t go to Orlando if they’re mediocre. The Knicks on the other hand would receive crazy consideration all of sudden just for showing promise

Free agents don't come to our losing franchise either. Until that day comes and they actually sign with us, I won't agree that we have some sort of advantage because it's NYC. In theory, yes, you're right. But in reality, it just hasn't happened.

[DaGawd]

I saw Nikola Vucevic mentioned in here, and I can't believe some of you don't see the parallels between Randle and him. The Magic looked like they were ready to move on from him, he was going into the last year of his deal and they drafted a young center to potentially groom for the future. Then Vucevic has a career year, they sign him to a 4 year $100 million, they glue their draft pick to the bench despite nice advanced stats, they go 42-40 and earn the right to lose 4-1 to the Raptors, then they go 33-40 and still make the playoffs because this is the East after all, and lose 4-1 to the Bucks.


Vucevic is a nice player, he'd be a great number 3 guy on the Raptors or Celtics, but you don't build around him. Randle could be a good number 3, or an excellent 6th man, you don't build around him as part of your core. There isn't a single contending team that would have Randle as part of their core, and we're about to build around him as though he's Embiid

There are some parallels for sure. But the one thing we have over Orlando which is a pretty big advantage is the market. Free agents don’t go to Orlando if they’re mediocre. The Knicks on the other hand would receive crazy consideration all of sudden just for showing promise

Free agents don't come to our losing franchise either. Until that day comes and they actually sign with us, I won't agree that we have some sort of advantage because it's NYC. In theory, yes, you're right. But in reality, it just hasn't happened.

Exactly.. they won’t come because we’ve been losers.. we finally have the chance to build a decent middle of the road winner and some of y’all are running from it

[NewKnicks]

We not getting Cade or none of those guys by just missing the playoffs either so I don’t understand the argument for being good enough to just miss the playoffs. Get these young guys a taste of playoff experience and go from there. It’s a process. The Nets endured a couple of first round exits before they got their big 3

You don't need to be the worst team in the league to move up in the draft, the Hornets had the 9th worst record and drafted 3rd.

How has the playoff experience helped the Magic? The Nets have 1 player left over from those playoff teams you're talking about, everyone else is gone. What KD/Kyrie free agency tandem are we going to sign in the next 5 years that will allow us to trade everything for a MVP? That situation is so far out from the norm it isn't even worth mentioning.

You really ready to bank on this volatile ass lottery system moving us up? Lol..... and all teams have different paths to building their way up to contenders. Like I said why not attract or trade for another really good player to play with Randle? Why we only have to depend on lottery picks who mostly need a few years before they’re really ready to affect winning? Let’s keep all avenues open. There’s been plenty of teams who found gems outside of the lottery. Knicks have been doing that as late also (and sucking in the lottery... go figure) just keep on identifying good players where ever you pick.

It's worth a shot, this year at least. There are 5 potential franchise changers in the upcoming draft. If we could get one of them, it could skyrocket our chances of this franchise actually getting somewhere in the next 5-7 years. I don't support tanking, but it wouldn't be such a bad thing if we dropped and got lucky in the lottery.

[DaGawd]

You don't need to be the worst team in the league to move up in the draft, the Hornets had the 9th worst record and drafted 3rd.

How has the playoff experience helped the Magic? The Nets have 1 player left over from those playoff teams you're talking about, everyone else is gone. What KD/Kyrie free agency tandem are we going to sign in the next 5 years that will allow us to trade everything for a MVP? That situation is so far out from the norm it isn't even worth mentioning.

You really ready to bank on this volatile ass lottery system moving us up? Lol..... and all teams have different paths to building their way up to contenders. Like I said why not attract or trade for another really good player to play with Randle? Why we only have to depend on lottery picks who mostly need a few years before they’re really ready to affect winning? Let’s keep all avenues open. There’s been plenty of teams who found gems outside of the lottery. Knicks have been doing that as late also (and sucking in the lottery... go figure) just keep on identifying good players where ever you pick.

It's worth a shot, this year at least. There are 5 potential franchise changers in the upcoming draft. If we could get one of them, it could skyrocket our chances of this franchise actually getting somewhere in the next 5-7 years. I don't support tanking, but it wouldn't be such a bad thing if we dropped and got lucky in the lottery.

At least you not looking at the lottery as some sure fire fix it seems. Tbh I don’t see 5 potential franchise players in this draft. If they are it’ll be further down the road not immediate imo

[Reign23]

really think Randle is legit and a very good player, but lets say BOS offers their TPE and 2 first round picks. I would move him, play a RJ-Obi-Mitch frontcourt, tank and try to get one of the 5 players in the draft. If we land 6-9 we would certainly have the extra picks to move up.

[NewKnicks]

Randle: 23 PPG, 11 RPG 5.5 APG
Tobias: 21 PPG. 8 RPG 2.7 APG

Randle’s superior playmaking makes him a much better player

Neither are great, that's the point. What happened to your moratorium?

The last player to average 20-10-5 on 40% from 3 and 80% from the line was the great Larry Bird.



There is a clause in the moratorium that allows me to come into your debates if you are spreading fake news about Randle!

Larry Bird played at an extremely high level for 10+ years. Randle has done it for 30 games.

[shmeakone]

We always knew he's a hard worker. His offseason workouts looked insane. Coaching was the problem last year, he needed someone to push him like Thibs. Perfect fit. Thibs' player development is extermely underrated. Kudos to both.

Randle is not our no. 1 guy longterm, but he's going to attract someone to come here and he'll be the perfect wingman alongside him.

I've been saying he's been having a Zach Randolph/Memphis type of "re-birth" here and there's a lot of comparisons you can keep making with the two players/teams. Zach did amazing in Memphis, not only driving them far in the playoffs, but in the West as well. We can only hope this will be the case in New York. We will need to continue getting the right pieces around him for sure.

[NewKnicks]

even if you think it's smarter to trade randle and tank, it's very obvious they're not going to. you kind of have to just accept it.

Mediocrity awaits.

If we make the playoffs and have to play the Nets, this board will be in shambles by the end of it too

For Knicks fans, mediocrity feels like 'winning'. I guess I can't blame fans for feeling this way, after the past 20 years of trash.

[Gravy]

I have a question for those that want to trade Randle. Should the Pistons get rid of Jerami Grant? He's also having a breakout all star type year, yet he's the player many people here would have loved for us to sign.

[prophet_of_rage]

It isn't. You wanted my top 25 ... I wanted your potential ATGs in this draft class worth trading Randle.

That was the point of my statement that you waded into saying ... Rodman? What is the point of tanking now and giving away tslent for a crapshoot in the draft. The top 5 was no guarantee of a franxhise changer.

You said there possibly could be an ATG in this draft class. Name them. Shouldn't be hard.

I committed. You commit.

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You are asking me to back up a claim I didn’t make.

I didn’t say anyone in the 2021 draft is an all time great.

I didn’t say trade Randle.

Straw man argument.

My only point was that downplaying draft position is crazy b/c most of your all time greats are at the top. That’s where my top 25 comment came from.

I don’t fault ppl for wanting to be in that top 5 in a draft (I didn’t say this one) for that reason.

That’s it.

You’re arguing with so many ppl that you’re now just blending the other arguments into this. together.

I have to agree with dakomish. ESPECIALLY in the coming draft. At this point, there seems to be 5 potential franchise changers. If you don't get in that top 5, you could be missing out on a player that will change the trajectory of your franchise.

And for anyone to suggest that picks 6-15 are basically the same as 1-5 hasn't paid attention. The generational talent is almost always drafted in the top 5.

There's no need to produce a list with the Kawhi's, etc. Of course there are a lot of exceptions.

But if you're going to tank, you need to do it the right way and get in the top 3 (preferably).

Will you name them?

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[NewKnicks]

Mostly I'm saying 14-16 in a terrible conference isn't 'winning'. Maybe I'm nuts.

You're not nuts. It's just that the bar is so low around here, that because we compete most nights we're 'winning'.

I don't want to max out Randle, but it will happen, whether I like it or not.

In this coming draft, if we could get a 1-5 pick for Randle I'd do it in a heartbeat. But, the teams that will end up being 1-5 will not make that deal, because they know the players in this draft have a lot more upside than Randle does.

I know I'll probably get creamed for saying that. It is what it is. We're all entitled to our own opinions around here.

I'm okay with keeping Randle, but if we're able to get in the top 5 and get a player that is 6 years younger than Randle with more upside, I take it and run with it. The opposite is keeping Randle and maxing him out, and hoping he truly is a franchise player and will be a #1 or #2 on a championship team. He is not that player, but that will be the thought process if we max him out.

The teams that will end up getting the top 5 picks all have all star caliber players like Randle too, its not like those teams are tanking they just suck. And the new odds mean we cant even guarantee we would be in the top 5.

I get it, and realize we still won't have that great of a chance to get in the top 5, but for this draft in particular, if we can somehow get in the top 5 of the lottery it's worth it.

I don't like tanking at all, but when you have such a stacked draft it's not such a bad thing to be losers for one more year.

[NewKnicks]

There are some parallels for sure. But the one thing we have over Orlando which is a pretty big advantage is the market. Free agents don’t go to Orlando if they’re mediocre. The Knicks on the other hand would receive crazy consideration all of sudden just for showing promise

Free agents don't come to our losing franchise either. Until that day comes and they actually sign with us, I won't agree that we have some sort of advantage because it's NYC. In theory, yes, you're right. But in reality, it just hasn't happened.

Exactly.. they won’t come because we’ve been losers.. we finally have the chance to build a decent middle of the road winner and some of y’all are running from it

Don't get me wrong... I hope you're right about us changing that losing mentality and other players around the league are noticing. We're both on the same page in that regard.. I would love it if that became true. I'm just basing my statements on history.

[Reign23]

I have a question for those that want to trade Randle. Should the Pistons get rid of Jerami Grant? He's also having a breakout all star type year, yet he's the player many people here would have loved for us to sign.

If I am Detroit, I would move him for a second top 10 pick in the next draft for sure.

[3toheadmelo]

I have a question for those that want to trade Randle. Should the Pistons get rid of Jerami Grant? He's also having a breakout all star type year, yet he's the player many people here would have loved for us to sign.

Would the Pacers move Sabonis considering that the Pacers are a 1st round exit? Heat moving Bam since they’re struggling hard? Rockets trading Wood since the Rockets suck? List goes on.