NBA MVP Discussion 20/21 (Fresh poll ➥ Vote)

[GSP]

lmao lebrons no damn MVP..horrible night from him..they will lose 2 more games without Shroeder/AD possibly and that should end his "shot" cause then AD will come back and they will start winning again

Ad is out for 4 weeks.........

[DCasey91]

Love me some Harden. Probably end up 1 seed in the East, Irving/Durant will miss a bunch of games. Bulky durable son of a gun.

Putting up absurd numbers/efficiency/and usage wise is very low.

Out of all the absurd numbers superstars are putting up look at Hardens stat line for the Nets:

24/8/11.7 on 66ts% on a 50/40/90 with only 25% usage and a 129 offensive rating. That’s ridiculous lol.

[nikster]

The numbers were never there, but now LeBron's MVP push doesn't really have much of a narrative going for it anymore, not with the team falling apart without AD.

[nikster]

The numbers were never there, but now LeBron's MVP push doesn't really have much of a narrative going for it anymore, not with the team falling apart without AD.

Lakers record without AD is still better than Denver's for the season (and in 2 of those loses Schroeder was out too)

[Forte IV]

I'd still have LeBron as MVP but it's close after Embiids big game. Probably neck and neck now.

I'd say Embiid has a pretty healthy margin as #1 right now.

[Gibson22]

Lebron is closer to #5 than to #1 now.

[The Explorer]

Poor night from Lillard as well.
Embiid & Jokic are leading the pack at the moment

[Openheimer]

Love me some Harden. Probably end up 1 seed in the East, Irving/Durant will miss a bunch of games. Bulky durable son of a gun.

Putting up absurd numbers/efficiency/and usage wise is very low.

Out of all the absurd numbers superstars are putting up look at Hardens stat line for the Nets:

24/8/11.7 on 66ts% on a 50/40/90 with only 25% usage and a 129 offensive rating. That’s ridiculous lol.

Post the harden trade , the Nets offense has been transformed into the greatest of all time. All the Nets players efficiency has gone through the roof. If the short handed Nets beat the Clippers tonight, harden has to be intensely involved in the conversation

The Nets were languishing at 6-6 pre trade but have played much better and have been playing either without one of Kyrie or KD for majority of the time. If Harden can beat the Suns, Lakers and the Clippers trio without KD yeah it’s on

[BelgradeNugget]

Lol I’m good junior. Let’s hope you and Embiid don’t go home crying again this season.

I do value a player actually... playing the season. Call me crazy.

Jokic has proven dominant in the playoffs by the way. Embiid? Glass and inconsistent. Do you need me to bore out the numbers? Do you need me to bore out the numbers why Jokic has been better than Embiid this year? The Nuggets are better and have performed better than the Sixers by the way, they just happen to play in the real conference. They have a FAR better SRS than the Sixers. Which, hint, is much more telling of post season success. I’d like to guide you along further but frankly would rather you never quote me again. You are annoying af and clueless af.

DEFENSE DEFENSE DEFENSE DEFENSE DEFENSE

(am I being annoying enough for you)

Through MULTIPLE posts you CONTINUE to ignore what Embiid does on the defensive end.

Who is clueless here?

No worries, bro. I am done with you. Bye.

Jokic plays D and hilariously has a WAY higher D BPM than Embiid (I do not think he is a better defender fwiw, but this stat does say so). Offensively it's not a question. Jokic murders Embiid. You're talking about a 27+ PPG scorer on 50/40/90+ who is one of the best playmakers in the game, period (Embiid has a negative assist/TO ratio. He is a cancer of a playmaker). Better rebounder is negligible at best and Jokic leads him in offensive reb% considerably, which is the more paramount stat for boards.

Bear in mind this is all coming off of the best game of Embiid's career and a relatively quiet ho-hum triple-double from Jokic. Regression to the mean is incoming.

Keep ignoring that Embiid has missed/rested 25% of the season while Jokic battles quite literally every night (games taken off due to being made of glass = zero). Keep ignoring that Jokic has Embiid smashed on WS/BPM/VORP (all of which he leads the league in), and keep ignoring that the Sixers are a fake conference leader in an absolute joke of a conference (2 SRS to 4 SRS respectively.
The Suns are easily better than the Sixers). The Nuggets are the better team, and Jokic is the better player. Period. Night kid.

First of all I think Embiid is having great season. Now about Jokic's defense. Advanced stats always have him as very good defender and here is why:
1. 4th in the league in deflections per game
2. 8th in the league in box outs per game
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/hustle-leaders/
I think these stats are important for defense
3. 6th in the league in steals per game
https://www.espn.com/nba/stats/player/_/table/defensive/sort/avgSteals/dir/desc
In these stats he is not the best among centers he is among the best in the league.
Now one thing that majority of people who don't understand the game like to point to as proof that Jokic is terrible defender.
Rim protection:
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/opponent-shooting/?Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PlayerPosition=C&sort=Less%20Than%205%20ft.%20FGM&dir=1
Embiid is allowing 58% shooting from less then 5 ft, while Jokic is terrible with 66% opponent shooting. What people don't get is the fact that opponents score 12.7 fgm from less then 5 ft against Embiid and 12.5 against Jokic. The fact is Joel is letting people to the rim were he attacks them while Jokic is using positioning to prevent opponents to take shots under the rim.
Not so hard to understand I guess

[Blaze94]

lmao lebrons no damn MVP..horrible night from him..they will lose 2 more games without Shroeder/AD possibly and that should end his "shot" cause then AD will come back and they will start winning again

Ad is out for 4 weeks.........

yes but the all star game is coming up

[Blaze94]

The numbers were never there, but now LeBron's MVP push doesn't really have much of a narrative going for it anymore, not with the team falling apart without AD.

Lakers record without AD is still better than Denver's for the season (and in 2 of those loses Schroeder was out too)

Lakers had one of the easiest schedules just like last year

[bebopdeluxe]

DEFENSE DEFENSE DEFENSE DEFENSE DEFENSE

(am I being annoying enough for you)

Through MULTIPLE posts you CONTINUE to ignore what Embiid does on the defensive end.

Who is clueless here?

No worries, bro. I am done with you. Bye.

Jokic plays D and hilariously has a WAY higher D BPM than Embiid (I do not think he is a better defender fwiw, but this stat does say so). Offensively it's not a question. Jokic murders Embiid. You're talking about a 27+ PPG scorer on 50/40/90+ who is one of the best playmakers in the game, period (Embiid has a negative assist/TO ratio. He is a cancer of a playmaker). Better rebounder is negligible at best and Jokic leads him in offensive reb% considerably, which is the more paramount stat for boards.

Bear in mind this is all coming off of the best game of Embiid's career and a relatively quiet ho-hum triple-double from Jokic. Regression to the mean is incoming.

Keep ignoring that Embiid has missed/rested 25% of the season while Jokic battles quite literally every night (games taken off due to being made of glass = zero). Keep ignoring that Jokic has Embiid smashed on WS/BPM/VORP (all of which he leads the league in), and keep ignoring that the Sixers are a fake conference leader in an absolute joke of a conference (2 SRS to 4 SRS respectively.
The Suns are easily better than the Sixers). The Nuggets are the better team, and Jokic is the better player. Period. Night kid.

First of all I think Embiid is having great season. Now about Jokic's defense. Advanced stats always have him as very good defender and here is why:
1. 4th in the league in deflections per game
2. 8th in the league in box outs per game
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/hustle-leaders/
I think these stats are important for defense
3. 6th in the league in steals per game
https://www.espn.com/nba/stats/player/_/table/defensive/sort/avgSteals/dir/desc
In these stats he is not the best among centers he is among the best in the league.
Now one thing that majority of people who don't understand the game like to point to as proof that Jokic is terrible defender.
Rim protection:
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/opponent-shooting/?Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PlayerPosition=C&sort=Less%20Than%205%20ft.%20FGM&dir=1
Embiid is allowing 58% shooting from less then 5 ft, while Jokic is terrible with 66% opponent shooting. What people don't get is the fact that opponents score 12.7 fgm from less then 5 ft against Embiid and 12.5 against Jokic. The fact is Joel is letting people to the rim were he attacks them while Jokic is using positioning to prevent opponents to take shots under the rim.
Not so hard to understand I guess

Seriously - I am having a hard time continuing this argument.

Jokic is GREAT. He really is. He is putting up unreal numbers.

It really is a simple argument for Embiid. His numbers on offense might not be as otherworldly as Jokic, but they are arguably top 3 in the league. When you combine that with 1) his All-Defense caliber D and 2) the Sixers being the #1 team in the East, Embiid is the MVP right now. We will see where we are at the end of the season.

Here's hoping for a Sixers - Nuggets NBA Finals!

[stormi]

Read on Twitter

Historically efficient to this point. His offensive game has just gotten so precise, and his shooting profile for a 7 footer is mindblowing.

[AdagioPace]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Historically efficient to this point. His offensive game has just gotten so precise, and his shooting profile for a 7 footer is mindblowing.

basically Embiid is doing what we'd expect from a prime Karl Anthony Towns with dpoy defense

[nikster]

The numbers were never there, but now LeBron's MVP push doesn't really have much of a narrative going for it anymore, not with the team falling apart without AD.

Lakers record without AD is still better than Denver's for the season (and in 2 of those loses Schroeder was out too)

Lakers had one of the easiest schedules just like last year

Still, it's stupid to hold Lakers record without AD against Lebron if you won't hold Denver's record against Jokic

[BelgradeNugget]

Jokic plays D and hilariously has a WAY higher D BPM than Embiid (I do not think he is a better defender fwiw, but this stat does say so). Offensively it's not a question. Jokic murders Embiid. You're talking about a 27+ PPG scorer on 50/40/90+ who is one of the best playmakers in the game, period (Embiid has a negative assist/TO ratio. He is a cancer of a playmaker). Better rebounder is negligible at best and Jokic leads him in offensive reb% considerably, which is the more paramount stat for boards.

Bear in mind this is all coming off of the best game of Embiid's career and a relatively quiet ho-hum triple-double from Jokic. Regression to the mean is incoming.

Keep ignoring that Embiid has missed/rested 25% of the season while Jokic battles quite literally every night (games taken off due to being made of glass = zero). Keep ignoring that Jokic has Embiid smashed on WS/BPM/VORP (all of which he leads the league in), and keep ignoring that the Sixers are a fake conference leader in an absolute joke of a conference (2 SRS to 4 SRS respectively.
The Suns are easily better than the Sixers). The Nuggets are the better team, and Jokic is the better player. Period. Night kid.

First of all I think Embiid is having great season. Now about Jokic's defense. Advanced stats always have him as very good defender and here is why:
1. 4th in the league in deflections per game
2. 8th in the league in box outs per game
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/hustle-leaders/
I think these stats are important for defense
3. 6th in the league in steals per game
https://www.espn.com/nba/stats/player/_/table/defensive/sort/avgSteals/dir/desc
In these stats he is not the best among centers he is among the best in the league.
Now one thing that majority of people who don't understand the game like to point to as proof that Jokic is terrible defender.
Rim protection:
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/opponent-shooting/?Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PlayerPosition=C&sort=Less%20Than%205%20ft.%20FGM&dir=1
Embiid is allowing 58% shooting from less then 5 ft, while Jokic is terrible with 66% opponent shooting. What people don't get is the fact that opponents score 12.7 fgm from less then 5 ft against Embiid and 12.5 against Jokic. The fact is Joel is letting people to the rim were he attacks them while Jokic is using positioning to prevent opponents to take shots under the rim.
Not so hard to understand I guess

Seriously - I am having a hard time continuing this argument.

Jokic is GREAT. He really is. He is putting up unreal numbers.

It really is a simple argument for Embiid. His numbers on offense might not be as otherworldly as Jokic, but they are arguably top 3 in the league. When you combine that with 1) his All-Defense caliber D and 2) the Sixers being the #1 team in the East, Embiid is the MVP right now. We will see where we are at the end of the season.

Here's hoping for a Sixers - Nuggets NBA Finals!

I'm not arguing about Embiid's impact. You can make an argument that he is MVP because of his stats/impact and 76ers record. It is legit. You can also make an argument that he missed too many games and Jokic is MVP because of his stats/impact.
What I tried here is to explain to some fans that jokic is not bad defender, but very good one. Impact defensive stats have always showed this. And I'm trying to explain to the people who do not follow the Nuggets how it is possible, and how is he defending. Simple as that.

[Dnt hate]

DEFENSE DEFENSE DEFENSE DEFENSE DEFENSE

(am I being annoying enough for you)

Through MULTIPLE posts you CONTINUE to ignore what Embiid does on the defensive end.

Who is clueless here?

No worries, bro. I am done with you. Bye.

Jokic plays D and hilariously has a WAY higher D BPM than Embiid (I do not think he is a better defender fwiw, but this stat does say so). Offensively it's not a question. Jokic murders Embiid. You're talking about a 27+ PPG scorer on 50/40/90+ who is one of the best playmakers in the game, period (Embiid has a negative assist/TO ratio. He is a cancer of a playmaker). Better rebounder is negligible at best and Jokic leads him in offensive reb% considerably, which is the more paramount stat for boards.

Bear in mind this is all coming off of the best game of Embiid's career and a relatively quiet ho-hum triple-double from Jokic. Regression to the mean is incoming.

Keep ignoring that Embiid has missed/rested 25% of the season while Jokic battles quite literally every night (games taken off due to being made of glass = zero). Keep ignoring that Jokic has Embiid smashed on WS/BPM/VORP (all of which he leads the league in), and keep ignoring that the Sixers are a fake conference leader in an absolute joke of a conference (2 SRS to 4 SRS respectively.
The Suns are easily better than the Sixers). The Nuggets are the better team, and Jokic is the better player. Period. Night kid.

First of all I think Embiid is having great season. Now about Jokic's defense. Advanced stats always have him as very good defender and here is why:
1. 4th in the league in deflections per game
2. 8th in the league in box outs per game
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/hustle-leaders/
I think these stats are important for defense
3. 6th in the league in steals per game
https://www.espn.com/nba/stats/player/_/table/defensive/sort/avgSteals/dir/desc
In these stats he is not the best among centers he is among the best in the league.
Now one thing that majority of people who don't understand the game like to point to as proof that Jokic is terrible defender.
Rim protection:
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/opponent-shooting/?Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PlayerPosition=C&sort=Less%20Than%205%20ft.%20FGM&dir=1
Embiid is allowing 58% shooting from less then 5 ft, while Jokic is terrible with 66% opponent shooting. What people don't get is the fact that opponents score 12.7 fgm from less then 5 ft against Embiid and 12.5 against Jokic. The fact is Joel is letting people to the rim were he attacks them while Jokic is using positioning to prevent opponents to take shots under the rim.
Not so hard to understand I guess

Barring injuries this race will probably end up being Embiid vs Jokic with the mvp going to the team with the better record

[Dnt hate]

DEFENSE DEFENSE DEFENSE DEFENSE DEFENSE

(am I being annoying enough for you)

Through MULTIPLE posts you CONTINUE to ignore what Embiid does on the defensive end.

Who is clueless here?

No worries, bro. I am done with you. Bye.

Jokic plays D and hilariously has a WAY higher D BPM than Embiid (I do not think he is a better defender fwiw, but this stat does say so). Offensively it's not a question. Jokic murders Embiid. You're talking about a 27+ PPG scorer on 50/40/90+ who is one of the best playmakers in the game, period (Embiid has a negative assist/TO ratio. He is a cancer of a playmaker). Better rebounder is negligible at best and Jokic leads him in offensive reb% considerably, which is the more paramount stat for boards.

Bear in mind this is all coming off of the best game of Embiid's career and a relatively quiet ho-hum triple-double from Jokic. Regression to the mean is incoming.

Keep ignoring that Embiid has missed/rested 25% of the season while Jokic battles quite literally every night (games taken off due to being made of glass = zero). Keep ignoring that Jokic has Embiid smashed on WS/BPM/VORP (all of which he leads the league in), and keep ignoring that the Sixers are a fake conference leader in an absolute joke of a conference (2 SRS to 4 SRS respectively.
The Suns are easily better than the Sixers). The Nuggets are the better team, and Jokic is the better player. Period. Night kid.

First of all I think Embiid is having great season. Now about Jokic's defense. Advanced stats always have him as very good defender and here is why:
1. 4th in the league in deflections per game
2. 8th in the league in box outs per game
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/hustle-leaders/
I think these stats are important for defense
3. 6th in the league in steals per game
https://www.espn.com/nba/stats/player/_/table/defensive/sort/avgSteals/dir/desc
In these stats he is not the best among centers he is among the best in the league.
Now one thing that majority of people who don't understand the game like to point to as proof that Jokic is terrible defender.
Rim protection:
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/opponent-shooting/?Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PlayerPosition=C&sort=Less%20Than%205%20ft.%20FGM&dir=1
Embiid is allowing 58% shooting from less then 5 ft, while Jokic is terrible with 66% opponent shooting. What people don't get is the fact that opponents score 12.7 fgm from less then 5 ft against Embiid and 12.5 against Jokic. The fact is Joel is letting people to the rim were he attacks them while Jokic is using positioning to prevent opponents to take shots under the rim.
Not so hard to understand I guess

I'll say this though and I think u will agree, players are less likely to go into the paint against anchors like Gobert and Embiid, than against Jokic who they are less likely to fear, I've watched enough to be certain on that

[BelgradeNugget]

Jokic plays D and hilariously has a WAY higher D BPM than Embiid (I do not think he is a better defender fwiw, but this stat does say so). Offensively it's not a question. Jokic murders Embiid. You're talking about a 27+ PPG scorer on 50/40/90+ who is one of the best playmakers in the game, period (Embiid has a negative assist/TO ratio. He is a cancer of a playmaker). Better rebounder is negligible at best and Jokic leads him in offensive reb% considerably, which is the more paramount stat for boards.

Bear in mind this is all coming off of the best game of Embiid's career and a relatively quiet ho-hum triple-double from Jokic. Regression to the mean is incoming.

Keep ignoring that Embiid has missed/rested 25% of the season while Jokic battles quite literally every night (games taken off due to being made of glass = zero). Keep ignoring that Jokic has Embiid smashed on WS/BPM/VORP (all of which he leads the league in), and keep ignoring that the Sixers are a fake conference leader in an absolute joke of a conference (2 SRS to 4 SRS respectively.
The Suns are easily better than the Sixers). The Nuggets are the better team, and Jokic is the better player. Period. Night kid.

First of all I think Embiid is having great season. Now about Jokic's defense. Advanced stats always have him as very good defender and here is why:
1. 4th in the league in deflections per game
2. 8th in the league in box outs per game
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/hustle-leaders/
I think these stats are important for defense
3. 6th in the league in steals per game
https://www.espn.com/nba/stats/player/_/table/defensive/sort/avgSteals/dir/desc
In these stats he is not the best among centers he is among the best in the league.
Now one thing that majority of people who don't understand the game like to point to as proof that Jokic is terrible defender.
Rim protection:
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/opponent-shooting/?Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PlayerPosition=C&sort=Less%20Than%205%20ft.%20FGM&dir=1
Embiid is allowing 58% shooting from less then 5 ft, while Jokic is terrible with 66% opponent shooting. What people don't get is the fact that opponents score 12.7 fgm from less then 5 ft against Embiid and 12.5 against Jokic. The fact is Joel is letting people to the rim were he attacks them while Jokic is using positioning to prevent opponents to take shots under the rim.
Not so hard to understand I guess

I'll say this though and I think u will agree, players are less likely to go into the paint against anchors like Gobert and Embiid, than against Jokic who they are less likely to fear, I've watched enough to be certain on that

Click and see for yourself

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/opponent-shooting/?Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PlayerPosition=C&sort=Less%20Than%205%20ft.%20FGM&dir=1

Opponent shooting from less than 5 ft

Rudy Gobert 17.4 fga / 9.8 fgm
Nikola Jokic 19 fga / 12.5 fgm
Joel Embiid 21.8 fga / 12.7 fgm

Of the three mentioned Gobert allows least fga and fgm from less than 5 ft, Jokic is second and Joel is third. Maybe Joel is not in a good position to prevent drives often which may go unnoticed by eye test.

[DCasey91]

Love me some Harden. Probably end up 1 seed in the East, Irving/Durant will miss a bunch of games. Bulky durable son of a gun.

Putting up absurd numbers/efficiency/and usage wise is very low.

Out of all the absurd numbers superstars are putting up look at Hardens stat line for the Nets:

24/8/11.7 on 66ts% on a 50/40/90 with only 25% usage and a 129 offensive rating. That’s ridiculous lol.

Post the harden trade , the Nets offense has been transformed into the greatest of all time. All the Nets players efficiency has gone through the roof. If the short handed Nets beat the Clippers tonight, harden has to be intensely involved in the conversation

The Nets were languishing at 6-6 pre trade but have played much better and have been playing either without one of Kyrie or KD for majority of the time. If Harden can beat the Suns, Lakers and the Clippers trio without KD yeah it’s on

The top 3 have big question marks:
Embiid (Durability) if he plays 90% it definitely should be him.
Jokic/James (Team record going forward)

Curry/Lillard can have massive backends.

Harden has carried worst to top 3 seedings in the West. So this type of job is nothing new to him. If Durant/Irving miss too many games which shouldn’t surprised anyone (Irving isn’t durable, KD minutes managed because of risk. They were playing him for too many minutes imo).
Harden is durable asf.

Finished in the top 3 and won once on 5 separate years.

He’s like a bigger Nash/Prime Paul on steroids atm it’s absurd how he gets overlooked. It’s like we are used to/expect it from him.

His Suns game performance is one of the best this year from anybody and it barely got a mention lol.