Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition?

[bstein14]

Wizards have won 4 games in a row and they've beaten some decent teams. They are now closer to Atlanta and Orlando than us. I'm going to be really happy finishing anywhere in the bottom 3 so honestly I'm fine with Minny continuing to lose games. Especially since they are in the West they are going to have a harder time winning 30% of their games overall. I want them to keep losing to teams like OKC, Sacramento, Houston and New Orleans so those teams feel like they can stay in the 7/8/9/10 playoff picture. Its teams like Orlando, Cleveland, and OKC I don't want dropping below us. We're currently still a game and a half behind Cleveland, who is the closest team to us now.

Updated standings for all teams below .400 winning percentage.

1. Minnesota 7-23 .233
2. Detroit 8-21 .276
3. Cleveland 10-20 .333
4. Washington 10-17 .370
5. OKC 11-18 .379
6. Houston 11-17 .393

[zeebneeb]

Think it's crystal clear why they are consistently poor year after year regardless of where they pick:

1 - they lack all kinds of leadership in the playing group.

There are different kinds of leaders & you never hear of their better players being vocal, demonstrative or spiritual leaders.

On the Going to Work team we had Billups, Ben & Sheed just to start with.

2 - They usually have token veteran players - guys who barely play or if they do aren't playing at a high enough level or in a big enough role to own the locker room

3 - their "star" has a rep for being a numbers guy that doesn't like being told!

That's a recipe for failure.

They brought back Rubio hoping he'd make a difference but that's 1 guy who from all reports isn't really vocal and doesn't do a lot of team bonding kinda stuff.

GMs can find talent all they like but you gotta have the mix of humans in the locker room too and the Wolves have never figured that out regardless of FOs

There is no way Minnesota should be this bad. It's absurd at this point.

Sent from my SM-G781B using RealGM mobile app

Being an NBA player is no different from any other job. You have people who always try their best, and those who view it as a job, collect the paycheck, and go home. Think about how many jobs you've had in your life. I used to hang seemless gutters back in the day, and there was this one guy who loved it. I mean loved everything about it. I didn't care for it at all, but at the time it was a high paying gig, and I did the job. I cared more about my work because of him, and learned more of the ins and outs of that job then I ever thought I would.

Some people love their job, no matter what it is, and do it at peak, and cheerlead others to do the same. Having those people within the group makes a HUGE difference, and makes others around them more efficient, productive, and happy to be there.

There are the antithesis to the people I've mentioned, and those are the complainers, the soul-suckers who make you hate coming into work, those who point out all the problems whether it be pay, safety, management, anything to make the day go by slower, and make you hate your work as well. They are the worst, and often drive out the ones who love their job, and make everyone perform worse then they would.

The teams mentioned in this thread, Wizards, Wolves, e.t.c. have a long trail of horrendous seasons, and very little team success and you better believe that they lack leadership, and are filled with soul-suckers. The Wolves should in no way have that poor of a record. One can only assume KAT is a terrible leader, and Edwards is going to learn that from him. Great players bring that passion and enthusiasm to the workplace.

This Pistons team has a dearth of talent, and a bunch of young players but they have played their butts off so it seems to me they have the heart guys, the leaders, and all they need is more talent.

[440BB]

Houston is going to release DeMarcus Cousins due to his lack of mobility, possibly looking at Dewayne Dedmon to fill that backup center spot with Wood returning soon. Not only does that make Houston more likely to climb in the standings, it might reduce the Dedmon stretch a bit.

[MotownMadness]

Looking good so far

[Kilo]

Houston is going to release DeMarcus Cousins due to his lack of mobility, possibly looking at Dewayne Dedmon to fill that backup center spot with Wood returning soon. Not only does that make Houston more likely to climb in the standings, it might reduce the Dedmon stretch a bit.

Probably not, assuming he signs a vet minimum deal for the ROS. The stretch offset is (new salary - vet minimum)/2 so if he signs vet minimum there is no offset. But it's still good for the Pistons to get him playing somewhere to earn potentially a better contract next season. He's a 5M player still, and that would shave 1.5M off the Pistons stretch next season.

[Manocad]

Houston is going to release DeMarcus Cousins due to his lack of mobility, possibly looking at Dewayne Dedmon to fill that backup center spot with Wood returning soon. Not only does that make Houston more likely to climb in the standings, it might reduce the Dedmon stretch a bit.

$20 says someone here will post an idea about picking up Cousins

[bstein14]

Houston is going to release DeMarcus Cousins due to his lack of mobility, possibly looking at Dewayne Dedmon to fill that backup center spot with Wood returning soon. Not only does that make Houston more likely to climb in the standings, it might reduce the Dedmon stretch a bit.

$20 says someone here will post an idea about picking up Cousins

With no Blake and Okafor injured we probably need a vet min center incase Stewart/Plumlee get injured or have foul trouble. I'd probably be more interested in Dedmon than Cousins though.

[Manocad]

Houston is going to release DeMarcus Cousins due to his lack of mobility, possibly looking at Dewayne Dedmon to fill that backup center spot with Wood returning soon. Not only does that make Houston more likely to climb in the standings, it might reduce the Dedmon stretch a bit.

$20 says someone here will post an idea about picking up Cousins

With no Blake and Okafor injured we probably need a vet min center incase Stewart/Plumlee get injured or have foul trouble. I'd probably be more interested in Dedmon than Cousins though.

How do you define need though? If it's just a lack of players who fit the position, sure. Or if the Pistons literally don't have a body they can plug in from anywhere, i.e. they've got an empty roster spot, sure, I can go for that too. But if it's a case of "needing" a center with the unspoken idea of winning games/making the team better (or at least prevent losing badly/avoid a perception of open tanking) vs a rookie/young forward playing out of position, I don't think I'd add a player to cover that.

[Snakebites]

We could probably use another big body in case of injuries. Doesn’t mean it should be Cousins. You can find a veteran min player who’d normally be seeing G-League action for that role, and at that point it just becomes a matter of smoothly running a roster with proper balance, not even about winning.

Plumlee is set in his role and Stewart should be getting regular minutes. With Cousins comes the expectation of a role we probably shouldn’t offer him because it doesn’t fit with our current objectives. And all that is without taking into account Cousins’ objectives, which will not be served as a backup on an 8-21 team.

Cousins niche now is off the bench on a playoff team.

[DetroitSho]

Houston is going to release DeMarcus Cousins due to his lack of mobility, possibly looking at Dewayne Dedmon to fill that backup center spot with Wood returning soon. Not only does that make Houston more likely to climb in the standings, it might reduce the Dedmon stretch a bit.

$20 says someone here will post an idea about picking up Cousins

wait there's not already a thread for it?

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

[chrbal]

If we end up just buying out Blake, the Pistons should replace him with a g league player. There are some decent projects that aren’t two way players.

No point in Detroit picking up a cousins, for example, on the cheap.

[Manocad]

If we end up just buying out Blake, the Pistons should replace him with a g league player. There are some decent projects that aren’t two way players.

No point in Detroit picking up a cousins, for example, on the cheap.

Exactly.

[vic]

Think it's crystal clear why they are consistently poor year after year regardless of where they pick:

1 - they lack all kinds of leadership in the playing group.

There are different kinds of leaders & you never hear of their better players being vocal, demonstrative or spiritual leaders.

On the Going to Work team we had Billups, Ben & Sheed just to start with.

2 - They usually have token veteran players - guys who barely play or if they do aren't playing at a high enough level or in a big enough role to own the locker room

3 - their "star" has a rep for being a numbers guy that doesn't like being told!

That's a recipe for failure.

They brought back Rubio hoping he'd make a difference but that's 1 guy who from all reports isn't really vocal and doesn't do a lot of team bonding kinda stuff.

GMs can find talent all they like but you gotta have the mix of humans in the locker room too and the Wolves have never figured that out regardless of FOs

There is no way Minnesota should be this bad. It's absurd at this point.

Sent from my SM-G781B using RealGM mobile app

Being an NBA player is no different from any other job. You have people who always try their best, and those who view it as a job, collect the paycheck, and go home. Think about how many jobs you've had in your life. I used to hang seemless gutters back in the day, and there was this one guy who loved it. I mean loved everything about it. I didn't care for it at all, but at the time it was a high paying gig, and I did the job. I cared more about my work because of him, and learned more of the ins and outs of that job then I ever thought I would.

Some people love their job, no matter what it is, and do it at peak, and cheerlead others to do the same. Having those people within the group makes a HUGE difference, and makes others around them more efficient, productive, and happy to be there.

There are the antithesis to the people I've mentioned, and those are the complainers, the soul-suckers who make you hate coming into work, those who point out all the problems whether it be pay, safety, management, anything to make the day go by slower, and make you hate your work as well. They are the worst, and often drive out the ones who love their job, and make everyone perform worse then they would.

The teams mentioned in this thread, Wizards, Wolves, e.t.c. have a long trail of horrendous seasons, and very little team success and you better believe that they lack leadership, and are filled with soul-suckers. The Wolves should in no way have that poor of a record. One can only assume KAT is a terrible leader, and Edwards is going to learn that from him. Great players bring that passion and enthusiasm to the workplace.

This Pistons team has a dearth of talent, and a bunch of young players but they have played their butts off so it seems to me they have the heart guys, the leaders, and all they need is more talent.

I enjoyed your synopsis... but by recent accounts... Anthony Edwards seems to be becoming a leader on that team. There's even stories about how positive he is and he's making people better, slowly. He can't do too much as a rookie, but he's heading in that direction.

However the Pistons do have more natural leadership and more high-character guys at this point. Stewart, Bey, Grant are a solid core of both leadership and talent.

If you add Cade to that you're pretty much 1 slightly above average big away.
If you add Mobley/Kuminga to that you're pretty much one slightly above average big PG away.

[bstein14]

$20 says someone here will post an idea about picking up Cousins

With no Blake and Okafor injured we probably need a vet min center incase Stewart/Plumlee get injured or have foul trouble. I'd probably be more interested in Dedmon than Cousins though.

How do you define need though? If it's just a lack of players who fit the position, sure. Or if the Pistons literally don't have a body they can plug in from anywhere, i.e. they've got an empty roster spot, sure, I can go for that too. But if it's a case of "needing" a center with the unspoken idea of winning games/making the team better (or at least prevent losing badly/avoid a perception of open tanking) vs a rookie/young forward playing out of position, I don't think I'd add a player to cover that.

Need to throw in the game so smaller players don't have to play out of position. If we don't care that Sekou plays C and maybe even Grant at center a bit, then its fine to stay with what we've got as we've got plenty of wings. I agree that the best choice is likely to sign a D League guy that could step into fill those minutes.

[Pharaoh]

Happy to read positive news about Edwards but it's going to take KAT & DLo holding themselves accountable first before any new guy (rookie especially) can set the tone.

They did go and get Jimmy Butler when they had Wiggins and KAT - they proceeded to run him out of town for a reason.

I question if KAT wants it bad enough tbh

Think it's crystal clear why they are consistently poor year after year regardless of where they pick:

1 - they lack all kinds of leadership in the playing group.

There are different kinds of leaders & you never hear of their better players being vocal, demonstrative or spiritual leaders.

On the Going to Work team we had Billups, Ben & Sheed just to start with.

2 - They usually have token veteran players - guys who barely play or if they do aren't playing at a high enough level or in a big enough role to own the locker room

3 - their "star" has a rep for being a numbers guy that doesn't like being told!

That's a recipe for failure.

They brought back Rubio hoping he'd make a difference but that's 1 guy who from all reports isn't really vocal and doesn't do a lot of team bonding kinda stuff.

GMs can find talent all they like but you gotta have the mix of humans in the locker room too and the Wolves have never figured that out regardless of FOs

Sent from my SM-G781B using RealGM mobile app

Being an NBA player is no different from any other job. You have people who always try their best, and those who view it as a job, collect the paycheck, and go home. Think about how many jobs you've had in your life. I used to hang seemless gutters back in the day, and there was this one guy who loved it. I mean loved everything about it. I didn't care for it at all, but at the time it was a high paying gig, and I did the job. I cared more about my work because of him, and learned more of the ins and outs of that job then I ever thought I would.

Some people love their job, no matter what it is, and do it at peak, and cheerlead others to do the same. Having those people within the group makes a HUGE difference, and makes others around them more efficient, productive, and happy to be there.

There are the antithesis to the people I've mentioned, and those are the complainers, the soul-suckers who make you hate coming into work, those who point out all the problems whether it be pay, safety, management, anything to make the day go by slower, and make you hate your work as well. They are the worst, and often drive out the ones who love their job, and make everyone perform worse then they would.

The teams mentioned in this thread, Wizards, Wolves, e.t.c. have a long trail of horrendous seasons, and very little team success and you better believe that they lack leadership, and are filled with soul-suckers. The Wolves should in no way have that poor of a record. One can only assume KAT is a terrible leader, and Edwards is going to learn that from him. Great players bring that passion and enthusiasm to the workplace.

This Pistons team has a dearth of talent, and a bunch of young players but they have played their butts off so it seems to me they have the heart guys, the leaders, and all they need is more talent.

I enjoyed your synopsis... but by recent accounts... Anthony Edwards seems to be becoming a leader on that team. There's even stories about how positive he is and he's making people better, slowly. He can't do too much as a rookie, but he's heading in that direction.

However the Pistons do have more natural leadership and more high-character guys at this point. Stewart, Bey, Grant are a solid core of both leadership and talent.

If you add Cade to that you're pretty much 1 slightly above average big away.
If you add Mobley/Kuminga to that you're pretty much one slightly above average big PG away.

Sent from my SM-G781B using RealGM mobile app

[The Moose]

The Cavs are in a huge freefall and probably will be tanking for the rest of the season.

They've lost 10 straight games (9 of which were by 15+ points)

[Kilo]

All the while sitting Drummond. League needs to investigate that one. I mean you can't "load manage" stars when a good team for television rating purposes but can sit your top 2-3 player for weeks on end "searching for a trade"?

Griffin is cooked, but I think it was the wrong decision given how it's stretching out now. Also that decision seems mutual. Dre is also in the last year of his deal and needs to play to earn his next contract and wanted to be playing.

[Laimbeer]

Finish, chance of a top 5 pick

Worst 100%
Second 80%
Third 67%
Fourth 55%
Fifth 44%

[bstein14]

All the while sitting Drummond. League needs to investigate that one. I mean you can't "load manage" stars when a good team for television rating purposes but can sit your top 2-3 player for weeks on end "searching for a trade"?

Griffin is cooked, but I think it was the wrong decision given how it's stretching out now. Also that decision seems mutual. Dre is also in the last year of his deal and needs to play to earn his next contract and wanted to be playing.

I agree Griffin should have played up to the all-star break. GM decided to have him sit out after he played back to back games, which leads me to believe Weaver wasn't ok with that added risk of injury and it was a Casey/Blake decision for him to play.

Ideally, we would have let him keep playing 24ish minutes per game until at least the all-star break.

It just feels like the longer he sits, the bigger unknown there is and we perhaps are less likely to find a trade partner for him now. It also isn't a good look that we're so worried he will get injured that he's not playing.

[Manocad]

I don't care what happens with Blake or what it looks like. I doubt there are any real trade partners and there's no good reason for him to keep playing, especially if the desire is to maintain his health for potentially another much shorter, cheaper contract somewhere. But I've had the view for a while now that he was a lost cause and that the best move was to just wait until he's an expiring contract. However the organization has to weigh the benefits of what they could get for Blake as an expiring vs what they save in a buyout (probably in the neighborhood of $15 million). There's no choice here that is going to significantly impact where the Pistons are going with this team.