Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread

[CaPiTanAK]

I like Lauri and think that he will be a very good player for a winning team down the road. I personally would try to resign him for maybe like 17-18 mil/yr with incentives to be close to 22 mil/yr. I think that's a contract that both sides would gladly agree upon.

[BahamaBull]

I like Lauri and think that he will be a very good player for a winning team down the road. I personally would try to resign him for maybe like 17-18 mil/yr with incentives to be close to 22 mil/yr. I think that's a contract that both sides would gladly agree upon.

Thank god you are not our GM

[Indomitable]

I like Lauri and think that he will be a very good player for a winning team down the road. I personally would try to resign him for maybe like 17-18 mil/yr with incentives to be close to 22 mil/yr. I think that's a contract that both sides would gladly agree upon.

What exactly do like about him?

He cannot create.
He is capable of taking advantage of his shot.
He is a poor defender at the basket.
He is not capable of creating for others.
He need to be feed his shot.

He reads like Kyle Korver but Korver was a far superior shooter.

[Pentele]

It's always nice to start off the day with some good laughter, which you have provided me. Thanks!

I haven't "ignored ANY facts"... I haven't "suggested the line-up discussion is settled"... and I couldn't possibly care less whether or not "Coby is in the starting lineup".

I didn't suggest anything, I didn't ignore anything, hell I didn't even give one simple opinion... all I did was post a few statistical facts. And then I sat back and watched you and a few other people freak out as if I just called Lauri the worst player in NBA history.

Thanks again, I really appreciate it!

Glad to be of service! We are here to entertain and be entertained, isn't that so?

But sure, instead of "ignoring", let us speak of "being selective with facts". Instead of "suggesting", I am perfectly happy to say that you are "implying". And certainly you do not care at all what others think of Coby We can have it your way, it does not make one iota of difference to what your "perfect look" proposition amounts.

[Kukoc-Lauri]

Why would Knicks offer him big money to come off the bench? He won’t start over Mitchell or Randle. And they just drafted a PF with their lottery pick. They will have little to no interest in him.

Probably because New York media posted they are interested in him and Thibs was gonna drafted him if Minesotta was picking at 7. Randle is in last fully guaranteed year, trade for star is possible, Robinson is entering next season in extension talks with new agent and they deseperatly need shooters and spacing and have money to spend.

I’ve been following the Knicks a bit recently and Lauri’s name literally never comes up. They are looking for wings or a PG.

It was repported by Bleacher repport, Yardbarker,Chicago Sun times, New york ensy among others, right after Bulls Knicks double header

[Dieselbound&Down]

Team is better without him. 4 weeks to trade him. Time for management to put down a fresh stamp on the direction of the team.

[chefo]

I think Lauri's detractors have one truly valid point--he's been out of the lineup too much.

Everything else is to me nitpicking--Lauri has been, this year, the Bulls best man-to-man big on D. It's not particularly close either because he was the only one not getting embarrassed by random bigs who have had career nights against the Bulls. He's the best Bulls big in terms of staying with people on the perimeter on switches. That includes PWill, who's been very shaky on D, and Gaffrord/WCJ.

In the NBA, there's such a thing like tipping point where talent starts winning:

Zach has been playing like a superstar, especially lately.
Thad has been playing like Dray Green during the dynasty days, sans the elite defense
.
.
.
.
Sato has gotten his legs back and is a slightly improved version of his DC self--which is to say a very efficient, high quality role player
Temple's cold streak ended a couple of games ago so he's back to being a good defensive player who can score a bit
WCJ remembered that he can play ball and not suck completely like he did at the beginning of the year
.
.
.
PWill went to inconsistent, alternating decent games with really bad ones
Coby went from bottom decile player in the league to playing off ball and being a bottom third player in the league who still gets killed on D most night, but whose ability to kill the offense has been reduced by 80% by putting the ball in Zach and Sato's hands.

Right now, you add a 20ppg, 65%TS player to that group, who is not any worse on D than the person he replaces (PWill to start, or WCJ when he plays the 5) and you're going to start beating teams down.

Right before Lauri went down, the Zach-->Thad-->Lauri trio were killing it, despite having Coby and PWill to drag through much of their time on the floor.

It's not a coincidence that Lauri plays much better sans Coby on the floor, because the vets that play instead of Coby are much better at moving the ball around (Sato & Temple, Archie lately).

As opposed to hate on the guy, understand that if he comes back and plays just as well as he did before, the Bulls will have a good thing going because the people who replaced Lauri's minutes are nowhere near as good or efficient scorers as he's been, and are not better defenders than him either. Lauri can be the tipping point where teams can't gang up on Zach any longer because the Zach->Thad->Lauri things was just getting to be unstoppable went he went down, and it will be pick your poison time for opposing Ds.

I'll actually predict that if Zach continues killing it and Thad's legs don't give out, AND Lauri is as good as he was, the Bulls will start winning at 0.55-0.6 clip going forward (yes, 45-48 game run-rate). I really think we're one good/efficient player away from being really good, and two such players from being among the top 4 in the East (say Otto's money gets us that second player). I don't see why one of these guys can't be Lauri.

[Kukoc-Lauri]

Team is better without him. 4 weeks to trade him. Time for management to put down a fresh stamp on the direction of the team.

No it is not. We lost pretty easily against good teams Clippers without George and Sixers without Simmons, bad Wizards without Westbrook and nearly beat Pacers in ot, Detroit with them missing last shoot, Sacramento and Pelicans in close games. More like good schedule and bad teams, but we definitevly miss his points, rebounds and interior defense.

[BahamaBull]

im so low on Lauri that if we are minutes away from the trade deadline and some team calls offering a 2nd rounder for him I would accept it...Just let him go for nothing...Of course I want to sell him high but its just not going to happen...Dude is inconsistent, injury prone, soft, cant create his own shot and is an average 3 point shooter (and that supposedly is what he is known for...a big that can shoot from the outside)...ohh I almost forgot...His D sucks! No wonder why we win more games when he is out...

Counting the days until Lauri is gone

[PaKii94]

Hopefully, Lauri will be back very soon to test your theory.

Get him out there instead of Temple starting with the suddenly-improved combo of Zach - Coby - PWill - WCJ, and we'll get a perfect look at what you're saying.

Are you ignoring the fact, that Coby has been the guy in that lineup that has clearly performed the worst in that lineup, accidentally or wilfully? Why not replace both Temple and Coby in favor of Satoransky and Markkanen? We all already know that the combination of Lavine - Coby - Markkanen has been very bad in the past. It is also the case that Lavine and Markkanen have played together well without Coby. It is a bit disingenious of you that, now that it finally starts to seem that Lavine and Coby could perhaps co-exist on the court in the games Zach carries the team, you are suggesting the line-up discussion is settled by inserting Markkanen into a line-up with no capable pg. Ok, I get it, you want to see Coby in the starting line-up. But whichever way you want to shuffle the line-up numbers (yes, no need to reiterate, there is a separate thread for that), we should also try playing Coby from the bench before drawing any final conclusions concerning what is the best starting line-up for the Bulls with their current roster. Not to mention what is best for the team, in general, which is what those numbers mostly reflect. If the Bulls trade Markkanen at the deadline and do not acquire an actual pg, the great coby experiment may certainly continue unabated, and the results are going to be what they are (i.e. good or bad, who knows). But until at least Satoransky-level pg starts, the conclusions you wish to draw cannot be drawn with any reliability. Or why replace Temple for Lauri, for that matter? Why not replace the player that actually plays Lauri's position in that line-up, namely PWill? Wouldn't that also be the way to get "a perfect look" to what is argued above? What I am saying is that there is no "perfect look" until all the reasonable options are duly considered and tested.

edited: Minor corrections, couple of additions + I removed an unnecessary remark from the end of the post. No need to fan the flames.

It's always nice to start off the day with some good laughter, which you have provided me. Thanks!

I haven't "ignored ANY facts"... I haven't "suggested the line-up discussion is settled"... and I couldn't possibly care less whether or not "Coby is in the starting lineup".

I didn't suggest anything, I didn't ignore anything, hell I didn't even give one simple opinion... all I did was post a few statistical facts. And then I sat back and watched you and a few other people freak out as if I just called Lauri the worst player in NBA history.

Thanks again, I really appreciate it!

I appreciate you using facts to try to back up your takes. Much better than hot takes others have. However, I implore you to not get pigeonholed into one stat that makes your case while ignoring the overall grouping of stats. Yes the 5 man lineup data doesn't have Lauri in it's top lineups. You gotta question WHY? Why would our second best scorer not be in them? Then you can look at prior data and see that OPJ isn't in them either. WHY? He's always been a positive impact player his whole career and yet can't crack it on a rebuilding team?

Then you would see oh wait, maybe it's because these players have played less than half the minutes of the players in these lineups. Maybe that has an effect? The minutes that these players played earlier in the season with the (then) dysfunctional team has a greater impact for them because their sample size is smaller. That's why they are not a part of the top lineups (good or bad).

That's when you take a step back and look at the stats for smaller combos (2-3 man). This has a bigger sample size. That's what I showed you. Those are also "statistical facts". Those are more valid "statistical facts" because they are based on a bigger sample size. But you choose to ignore that, because like the other poster said. You want Coby in the starting lineup because you are a Coby fan. That's okay. But it's not okay to ignore what the data says about Coby just because you are a coby fan.

True data analysis relies on telling a story with the whole data, not just nitpicking what makes your case work.

[DroseReturnChi]

I like Lauri and think that he will be a very good player for a winning team down the road. I personally would try to resign him for maybe like 17-18 mil/yr with incentives to be close to 22 mil/yr. I think that's a contract that both sides would gladly agree upon.

Thank god you are not our GM

huh? thats a great tactic rather than losing him for nothing. dealing him for 2nd rounder is a 2k move.
I agree its hard to max rather give him incentives.

[PaKii94]

Today is 2 weeks from the initial 2-4 week diagnosis. Let's hope for some good updates.

[cool007]

Today is 2 weeks from the initial 2-4 week diagnosis. Let's hope for some good updates.

You are very optimistic. I don't expect him to be back until start of 2nd half (after all-star break).

[BahamaBull]

I like Lauri and think that he will be a very good player for a winning team down the road. I personally would try to resign him for maybe like 17-18 mil/yr with incentives to be close to 22 mil/yr. I think that's a contract that both sides would gladly agree upon.

Thank god you are not our GM

huh? thats a great tactic rather than losing him for nothing. dealing him for 2nd rounder is a 2k move.
I agree its hard to max rather give him incentives.

Overpay Lauri is not a great tactic imo...never...ever...

rather loose him for nothing...

Do you prefer a bad contract on your team or cash to spend on relevant players and flexibility?

[PaKii94]

Today is 2 weeks from the initial 2-4 week diagnosis. Let's hope for some good updates.

You are very optimistic. I don't expect him to be back until start of 2nd half (after all-star break).

Well that's why I said let's hope . I am also expecting him not to be back for at least another week

[FriedRise]

Today is 2 weeks from the initial 2-4 week diagnosis. Let's hope for some good updates.

You are very optimistic. I don't expect him to be back until start of 2nd half (after all-star break).

Well that's why I said let's hope . I am also expecting him not to be back for at least another week

I know no two injuries are the same so you can't compare, but Wendell returning a week early was a nice surprise. I know he said he didn't want to be labelled "injury prone" so you know that certainly played a factor.

Given maybe we're a week or so away from AKME having that sit down with BD to discuss the future of this team, it's probably in Lauri's interest to try to come back earlier than the initial estimate if he's ready. Recency bias is a thing, and you definitely don't want those in charge of evaluating the players to slap that label on you and move on. Lauri was playing well before he went down, but it's not helping his case that this team was able to continue rolling and just had one of its better outings (especially defensively) last week without him in the lineups.

[drosestruts]

The Lauri situation is tough for a couple of reasons:

I think we often overlook what is good and unique about Lauri and tend to center the discussion around what he is not. This is not just a Lauri thing, it's happened for years with Zach LaVine or guys like Ben Simmons too.

He's been injured. All of Lauri's injuries do seem to be unique to themselves, it doesn't appear his time missed as come from some sort of reoccurring injury that would be a long-term concern.

He's had bad coaches. The Bulls have played a role in the Lauri situation too. Having him play for Hoiberg and Boylen did no favors to Lauri or to the Bulls in being able to best evaluate him.

He's primarily played out of position. I think Lauri has a bright future in the NBA and I think that future will come when we see him at primarily a center who can play some 4. A lot of Lauri's best moments have come when he's played the 5, as it allows the areas he has advantages in to be maximized. Whether it's dropping a lot of points on KP in the Garden, or faking the handoff then blowing by Adams and beating the help from PG13 to score a game-winner against OKC. A lot of these highlights or big moments come with Lauri playing the 5.


The game vs Philly was a clear example of where having Lauri could have helped us. Not because he'd defend Embiid better, but because he'd at least give us something offensively to counter Embiid. Carter and Young aren't big enough shooting threats to pull Embid out of the paint, but Markkanen is. Markkanen also has more speed than Carter and Young and could make Embiid work more on defense, he can backcut, slip screen, attempt to drive by him, if Embiid stays with him Lauri has the little drag step shot.

Lauri is going to be a good 5 in the league for somebody. If he improves his rebounding, screening, and passing he may very well be a very good 5 for somebody. There's natural skills and advantages he has over other players. You can watch him defend on one end of the court than beat every other big man down to the other end, and if the opposing big sprints down with him Lauri can curl out to the corner or wing where he's still a threat which pulls that big man with him clearing the paint or giving Lauri an open outside look.

Durability and how we intend to use him are my biggest question marks regarding Lauri.

[CaPiTanAK]

Thank god you are not our GM

huh? thats a great tactic rather than losing him for nothing. dealing him for 2nd rounder is a 2k move.
I agree its hard to max rather give him incentives.

Overpay Lauri is not a great tactic imo...never...ever...

rather loose him for nothing...

Do you prefer a bad contract on your team or cash to spend on relevant players and flexibility?

Don't think you know what the true market value of certain player when you tell me this.

What's the problem about paying Lauri 22 mil/yr if he earns it? We know what his baseline is. A high efficient spread bigman. AK is willing to pay 14-15 mil/yr for that. What's wrong with paying him 22 mil/yr if his productions warrant me? Compromise and set his base at 17 mil/yr and allow him the opportunity to earn more if his plays are good enough to meet the incentives.

[Louri]

im so low on Lauri that if we are minutes away from the trade deadline and some team calls offering a 2nd rounder for him I would accept it...Just let him go for nothing...Of course I want to sell him high but its just not going to happen...Dude is inconsistent, injury prone, soft, cant create his own shot and is an average 3 point shooter (and that supposedly is what he is known for...a big that can shoot from the outside)...ohh I almost forgot...His D sucks! No wonder why we win more games when he is out...

Counting the days until Lauri is gone

Thank god you are not our GM

[TheSuzerain]

We really need to trade Lauri. He's not going to get paid more than Bertans even though he's not worth more than Bertans.