Knicks - Wolves PG

[Oscirus]

I think the biggest difference is that Randle has the mobility the play the 4, whereas Towns is stuck at the 5.

A 5 who can't protect the rim puts a ceiling on the team (except the one true King).

Towns is closer to Vucevic in that regard.

There's hope for Randle because he can play alongside a rim protector, as long as he stays in shape.

kat also plays kinda soft. he could have easily won that game last night, he just didn't really want it. he threw up bad shots and he didn't seem to care that much that he did.

That's what wasting your career will do to you. Such a shame that talent in a place that does not give a chit about player development

then we proceeded to go and hire their fired coach. That being said, wasn't Saunders supposed to be a development guy?

[Slicin N Dicin]

kat also plays kinda soft. he could have easily won that game last night, he just didn't really want it. he threw up bad shots and he didn't seem to care that much that he did.

That's what wasting your career will do to you. Such a shame that talent in a place that does not give a chit about player development

then we proceeded to go and hire their fired coach. That being said, wasn't Saunders supposed to be a development guy?

Problem lies with ownership and front office for both the knicks and Timberwolves. Difference is knicks finally made a positive change in the front office finally

[Chanel Bomber]

It’s not about the archetype. It’s about the pattern of behavior by this franchise. KOQ was a defensive big and he left. Kanter is nothing like Obi except they both suck on defense.

“We will put you in a suboptimal position to succeed in many ways, especially prioritizing bum journeymen over you all to win now. If you succeed despite our best efforts to make sure you fail, we’ll keep you”.

I'm not sure you understood my point.

The Knicks should and will target and sign a rim protector to back up Mitch. Because defense at the 5 is paramount. Can you really blame the Knicks for having a competent defender who fits that archetype back up Mitch at the 5 in Noel (and whoever backs up Mitch next year)?

Do you really want the Knicks to compromise their defense and their defensive identity by playing a cheap archetypical center who can shoot but can't protect the rim play the 5 to space the floor for Obi just so Obi can be featured? I know I wouldn't.

The only way to acquire a 5 who can both protect the rim and space the floor is via trade (Turner, Ibaka, an aging Lopez etc), which means the Knicks would have to give up assets to make Obi work as a 4 who's really featured in the pnr.

It's just hard to find a role for Obi precisely because he can neither shoot nor protect the rim, which means you need another big who covers both areas to make up for his limitations.

I'm all for featuring Obi in the PNR a bit more, and I've been critical of Thibs for not doing that, but with Noel and Taj backing up Mitch, it's just not something you can sustain for a large number of possessions. Not to mention he can't play more than 12 minutes per game with the way Randle's been balling as long as he can't protect the rim. We have to be realistic with Obi and recognize the issues that he creates.

Are you saying that the Knicks could really use kp

In all honesty, he's perfectly qualified to be our back-up 5

[nedleeds]

This board, like most people, is super reactionary to small samples with young players... Obi is going to be fine. At worst they'll just eventually make him a 15-20 minute pick and roll finisher. Like i've said I think they're trying to make him more of an all around player this year.

This draft more than ever was a massive crapshoot in the lottery and it's not like they really missed out on anyone in that area of the draft. Avdija looks just as average with more opportunity. You could say Halliburton but most of this board didn't want him and I don't think he performs nearly as well if he's here. Vassell hasn't been great offensively.

I don't mind taking a shot on Obi becoming an all around offensive beast over the other realistic options in that area of the draft. If it doesn't work out it doesn't really matter if Julius keeps this level up anyway

Avdija just turned 20.
Vassell just turned 20.

For a 23 year old to be this raw is a terrible sign. Obi and Avdija is apples and oranges, Avdija 3 years from now is the comp.

That's not how development works... They're both at the same stage of their basketball development. They are both rookie professional basketball players. In theory Avdija and Vassell have more time to develop their physical bodies and work out some kinks. Age really only means Obi has less of a shelf life on his peak.

Development isn't linear like that.

But time is. As is the human body. So if Obi is good and takes his rookie deal to develop then he's eligible for his max at 27 and you're paying him through age 32. If Kevin Knox was actually good he'd play 22-23 on his new deal, at age 23.5 and you are getting his athletic peak through around 27-28 years old.

There is no almost no upside at all to drafting a 23 year old in the lottery. It's all downside. Unless he plays like a 20 year old who developed for 3 years and is actually a good rotation player. Toppin is the worst of all worlds, he's bad, he's old for a rookie and he isn't even developed from a strength and body perspective.

If this draft wasn't **** from Covid I think he'd have gone well into the 20s. In person and really heavy scouting and more games would have exposed his lack of skill and polish. It is what it is. Maybe he can win a dunk contest and be this generations Kenny Walker.

[DOT]

Are you saying that the Knicks could really use kp

In all honesty, he's perfectly qualified to be our back-up 5 [/quote]
Unironically, he'd actually be a perfect fit at center for us next to Randle and RJ

He's a great rim protector, and while not a strong rebounder individually, he's about as good on defensive boards as Mitch, and on offense he's a 3pt shooter so he spaces the floor real well, meaning we could effectively use Randle as the 5 on offense, which would unlock his game to the fullest

Our problem still comes down to poor guard play, and Mitch is still awesome, but RJ/Randle/KP is a good frontcourt that fit with each other very well, at least in theory.

[3toheadmelo]

Are you saying that the Knicks could really use kp

In all honesty, he's perfectly qualified to be our back-up 5

Unironically, he'd actually be a perfect fit at center for us next to Randle and RJ

He's a great rim protector, and while not a strong rebounder individually, he's about as good on defensive boards as Mitch, and on offense he's a 3pt shooter so he spaces the floor real well, meaning we could effectively use Randle as the 5 on offense, which would unlock his game to the fullest

Our problem still comes down to poor guard play, and Mitch is still awesome, but RJ/Randle/KP is a good frontcourt that fit with each other very well, at least in theory.[/quote]
I don't think KP is that great of a rim protector anymore. At least in the games I saw, players were getting into the paint with ease. I saw someone post a stat also that said his defensive rating was like the worst in the league or something. He's like Whiteside now. Blocks shots but aint really impacting the game imo

[mpharris36]

what funny is because the quotes were messed up it looks like Melo is complimenting KP...I was like WTF?

[god shammgod]

I don't think KP is that great of a rim protector anymore. At least in the games I saw, players were getting into the paint with ease. I saw someone post a stat also that said his defensive rating was like the worst in the league or something. He's like Whiteside now. Blocks shots but aint really impacting the game imo

Read on Twitter

[mpharris36]

I don't think KP is that great of a rim protector anymore. At least in the games I saw, players were getting into the paint with ease. I saw someone post a stat also that said his defensive rating was like the worst in the league or something. He's like Whiteside now. Blocks shots but aint really impacting the game imo

Read on Twitter

whats interesting is carlisle not trust his 1st round pick Josh Green. The mavs suck on defense and there best defender is probably a rookie so I'm surprised he doesn't get any burn when the majority of players he plays suck on defense. They could use him but Carlisle isn't one to trust young players either.

[3toheadmelo]

I don't think KP is that great of a rim protector anymore. At least in the games I saw, players were getting into the paint with ease. I saw someone post a stat also that said his defensive rating was like the worst in the league or something. He's like Whiteside now. Blocks shots but aint really impacting the game imo

Read on Twitter

Luka and KP might be the worst defensive duo in the league

[DOT]

I don't think KP is that great of a rim protector anymore. At least in the games I saw, players were getting into the paint with ease. I saw someone post a stat also that said his defensive rating was like the worst in the league or something. He's like Whiteside now. Blocks shots but aint really impacting the game imo

I'll qualify that with KP while he was here before the injury would be perfect.

[DowNY]

I don't think KP is that great of a rim protector anymore. At least in the games I saw, players were getting into the paint with ease. I saw someone post a stat also that said his defensive rating was like the worst in the league or something. He's like Whiteside now. Blocks shots but aint really impacting the game imo

Read on Twitter

Luka and KP might be the worst defensive duo in the league

Up there with DLo & KAT

[3toheadmelo]

I don't think KP is that great of a rim protector anymore. At least in the games I saw, players were getting into the paint with ease. I saw someone post a stat also that said his defensive rating was like the worst in the league or something. He's like Whiteside now. Blocks shots but aint really impacting the game imo

I'll qualify that with KP while he was here before the injury would be perfect.

Yeah that version of KP would fit perfectly. Before the Pelicans signed Randle I wanted the Knicks to get him cause I thought the fit was great. Now, not so much lol

[Chanel Bomber]

Are you saying that the Knicks could really use kp

In all honesty, he's perfectly qualified to be our back-up 5

Unironically, he'd actually be a perfect fit at center for us next to Randle and RJ

He's a great rim protector, and while not a strong rebounder individually, he's about as good on defensive boards as Mitch, and on offense he's a 3pt shooter so he spaces the floor real well, meaning we could effectively use Randle as the 5 on offense, which would unlock his game to the fullest

Our problem still comes down to poor guard play, and Mitch is still awesome, but RJ/Randle/KP is a good frontcourt that fit with each other very well, at least in theory.

I agree. Whether he'd have accepted that role as a 3D guy in New York after being hyped as a unicorn, and knowing his delusions of grandeur, is another story.

[K_ick_God]

KP's D is not even a thing anymore. Maybe he'll reassert himself, he's still very long and mobile, but it's faded away a lot.

[K_ick_God]

... it is maybe him just trying to stay healthy or something. I don't get it. Because with Luka and the rest of their team, KP playing good interior D and scoring 15 PPG is much more valuable than the KP they have.

[K_ick_God]

All KP wants to do is shoot the top of the arc 3, and he doesn't make it at a high level. So I'm not seeing his offensive fit unless he's a minor guy. He just takes chances from RJ and Randle who are both better offensive players IMO.

To be honest, even if he's healthy, I don't think KP has established himself as a third scorer on a great team. It seems more like he'd be a good fourth option. I'm very hesitant to say third on a really good team because what does he do that puts a lot of pressure on defenses?

He's not a playmaker and chucks long 3's. Now if he played D, I could live with his 3's but not at a high rate really. He's worse than Randle in just about every way offensively and he's not distinguishing himself defensively.

[prophet_of_rage]

kat also plays kinda soft. he could have easily won that game last night, he just didn't really want it. he threw up bad shots and he didn't seem to care that much that he did.

It's crazy how NBA GMs voted him the best player to build around just 3 years ago.

I don't think it's a reflection of his character as a person at all but he does play soft. He shows toughness only in flashes.

seems like a real good kid but might be the type that doesn't like a coach who is hard on him. and yet, he needs that. maybe one day he'll realize.

That's exactly who he is.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

[Chanel Bomber]

All KP wants to do is shoot the top of the arc 3, and he doesn't make it at a high level. So I'm not seeing his offensive fit unless he's a minor guy. He just takes chances from RJ and Randle who are both better offensive players IMO.

To be honest, even if he's healthy, I don't think KP has established himself as a third scorer on a great team. It seems more like he'd be a good fourth option. I'm very hesitant to say third on a really good team because what does he do that puts a lot of pressure on defenses?

He's not a playmaker and chucks long 3's. Now if he played D, I could live with his 3's but not at a high rate really. He's worse than Randle in just about every way offensively and he's not distinguishing himself defensively.

This hate sounds so magnificent to me.

Please never stop

Spoiler:

Everything you said is true. Dude is a role player and should be viewed as one.

[dakomish23]

I'm not sure you understood my point.

The Knicks should and will target and sign a rim protector to back up Mitch. Because defense at the 5 is paramount. Can you really blame the Knicks for having a competent defender who fits that archetype back up Mitch at the 5 in Noel (and whoever backs up Mitch next year)?

Do you really want the Knicks to compromise their defense and their defensive identity by playing a cheap archetypical center who can shoot but can't protect the rim play the 5 to space the floor for Obi just so Obi can be featured? I know I wouldn't.

The only way to acquire a 5 who can both protect the rim and space the floor is via trade (Turner, Ibaka, an aging Lopez etc), which means the Knicks would have to give up assets to make Obi work as a 4 who's really featured in the pnr.

It's just hard to find a role for Obi precisely because he can neither shoot nor protect the rim, which means you need another big who covers both areas to make up for his limitations.

I'm all for featuring Obi in the PNR a bit more, and I've been critical of Thibs for not doing that, but with Noel and Taj backing up Mitch, it's just not something you can sustain for a large number of possessions. Not to mention he can't play more than 12 minutes per game with the way Randle's been balling as long as he can't protect the rim. We have to be realistic with Obi and recognize the issues that he creates.

Are you saying that the Knicks could really use kp

In all honesty, he's perfectly qualified to be our back-up 5

Imagine if we traded for him back and made him a bench guy

I fully expect us to trade Obi for him now that you brought this up